Catholics and Muslims - The Rapprochement.

Category: Faith & Spirituality, Life & Society Topics: Catholics, Muslims Views: 6196
6196

The outpouring of affection for John Paul II is unprecedented in Muslim history. Reminiscing at the first anniversary of John Paul II's death Scott Alexander, Associate Professor of Islam and director Catholic-Muslim Studies at the Catholic Theological Union in Chicago, marveled at the outpouring of affection by Muslims as the news of the Pope's death spread. "It started out as a single phone call," he recalled "but soon grew into a flood: telephone call after telephone call from Muslim friends, colleagues, and associates from all over the United States." 

The proximate reasons for his popularity among Muslims, were his unfailing support for the rights of the Palestinian people, and his stand against the Iraq war. He earned a reputation in the Muslim world of a man of principle that stood for justice and peace. Appreciation of his persona came from all parts of the Muslim spectrum. 

The warm Catholic-Muslim relationship, however, antedates John Paul II's papacy and is not merely political but far more nuanced and complex. The Vatican's rapprochement with Islam started in Paul VI's papacy. Scholars attribute this to the influence of the distinguished French scholar of Islam, Louis Massignon, who was close to Pope Paul VI. Massignon was far more than an influential academic. Jerry Ryan in an article "The mystical vision of Louis Massignon: Islam inspired scholar's gratitude, life work and Christian faith" published in the National Catholic Reporter, Dec 17, 2004, details Massignon's relationship with Islam and Muslims. This relationship was deeply personal and marked his life in profound and dramatic ways.

While being held as spy on a ship on the Tigris River Massignon had a vision, from a "Stranger without a Face", who took away everything he was and gave him everything he would become.

As Braibanti points out in his monograph "The Nature and Structure of the Islamic world", as early as 1964, following the second Vatican Council, Pope Paul VI declared in Ecclesiam Suam, "We do well to admire these people [of the Moslem religion] for all that is good and true in their worship of God." It was Paul VI's encyclical declaration, Nostra Aetate, proclaimed in 1965, which set forth this new relationship most clearly and fully: "They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth who also has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they respect Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further they await the Day of Judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead."

John Paul II built on these ecumenical foundations and strengthened them. In his address at his visit to the Umayyad mosque in Syria in 2001, he said "It is important that Muslims and Christians continue to explore philosophical and theological questions together, in order to come to a more objective and comprehensive knowledge of each others' religious beliefs.

Better mutual understanding will surely lead, at the practical level, to a new way of presenting our two religions, not in opposition, as has happened too often in the past, but in partnership for the good of the human family."

"For all the times that Muslims and Christians have offended one another" he said "we need to seek forgiveness from the Almighty and to offer each other forgiveness." Some feel this was an implicit apology for the Crusades.

This decidedly inclusive attitude, and a serious attempt at bridge building, stands in sharp contrast against the hostile attitude of some Christian Church leaders in the US, who in the post September the 11th environment, have called Islam an evil religion and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) an impostor and worse.

The new Pope Benedictine XVI seems to be reaching out to Muslims and other traditions. "I am particularly grateful" said Pope Benedictine, "for the presence in our midst of members of the Muslim community," the International Herald Tribune reported on April 26th. 

History will remember John Paul II as a man of vision who believed in cooperation between faiths and traditions rather than in confrontation. The world will be better off if the Vatican continues to advance the ecumenism that John Paul II so deeply cherished and so assiduously nourished. Other faith communities could emulate his example. 

Massignon's metaphor of the "Stranger without a Face" has a different and less metaphysical significance in my mind. As we get to know each other, we learn from our rich traditions that enhance our mutual experience and deepen it. If, on the other hand, we fail to do so, we remain strangers without faces. 

Javeed Akhter, a physician, is founding member of a Muslim American think tank the "International Strategy And Policy Institute."


  Category: Faith & Spirituality, Life & Society
  Topics: Catholics, Muslims
Views: 6196

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Older Comments:
ZINEDINE FROM MOROCCO said:
Salaamu alaikum,
I am Muslim first because that is my real identity but I also say that I am Moroccan because I was born in Morocco & moved to Canada when I was 26 years old. My ancestors came there & are the founders of the longest living monarchy system in the world via King Idriss I Fez 787-793. The culture of my country of origin is quite unique. I am Canadian because I am a Canadian citizen sine 1994 & plan to have my descendants here too. I do agree with what you said my dear brother Hudd. The truth is all this nationalities & ethnicities are just names that we use to define nations and ethnic group based on what we assume to be static cultures in an ever changing geographies, countries names & cultures. I know it's contradictory but contradiction is part of human nature only Allah does not contradict Himself. Without a doubt you are right in a sense because at a certain point of history there was no such a thing as a nation state. The European powers created them. There were empires and city states. in matters of faith (talking about Muslims here) there should be no distinction between nations and ethnic groups whether they are nation-states or stateless nations but in the real world there is for internal & foreign political, economic administrative reasons. It is in human nature to label and categorise everything including humans to close borders and open borders etc. I know it should be like that between Muslims...I don't know the sanad of the hadith you : "Alquawmu howa or alquawmiaia hia lismu athani li shaytan" whether the sanad of this hadith is strong or weak, it makes sense because nationalism & the rise of the nation state has been used negatively to destroy Christianity & Islam & our Muslims forefathers fell for it. The Abbasi dynasty used to keep the people of Iraq divided & this is evident in the poetry of Alfarazdaq and Jareer. I would like to get into the details about this by I am getting constantly interrupted by work. Jazaqa Allahu khairan
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HUDD FROM CANADA said:
As-Salamu alaykum Zinedine,I totally respect your rationale,although I personally don't agree.In order to explain rather my position than yours allow me to rimind you of three things.
1)Prophet Muhammad,pbuh, said,"Al-Qaum ism thani ash-Shatan." Roughly interpreted,'Nationalism is Satan's second identity.'
2)Also from prophet Muhammad,pbuh,"When you go among the nations do not reject everything that from them on the account that is not part of your culture/tradition.Rather accept everything that is not offensive to your way(Islam) and add it to your folklore.Thus you'll increase the size of your great culture."(again this is a rough interpretation).
3)When Tariq bin Ziyad landed in al-Andalus he set the boats on fire.When his men ran to him and desperately asked him,'what are you doing? How are we going to return home?'Tariq answered,'forget the sand dunes and the scourging droughts.Look around you at this heavenly garden.This is your home now.'
I'm sick and tired of the petty talks that go at the mosques and the national segragations occuring everywhere with our Muslims.You hear them:"Where from are you brother?"The man answer, "from Indonesia".The ones that asked turn away and start talking a foreign language among themselves probably about the brother they just questioned.They ask me too.I answer,"I am Canadian".They doubt that saying,"yeah right, what country are you from?"I answer again,"try Canada".They ask me,"were you born here?"I say,"yes".It's not enough,they ask me again,"what about your parents?"I answer,"they too were born here and their parents'parents as well".Then next question is,"are you white?"I answer,I'm Muslim.Do you understand me Zinedine? Why can't we all be Canadian Muslims?Why must we differenciate between Canadian citizens?Oh,you are Indian,I'm Arab,you are Egyptian,I'm Gujurati,You are Shia,I'm Sunni,I'm white you are black,you are stupid I am smart!Therefore,I say,Muslim Unite!Unite!One block:Canadian Muslims!God willing.Peace!
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ZINEDINE FROM MOROCCO said:
Salaamu alaikum ya Akhi Hudd,

I learnt a lot from you as well my dear brother Hud and I enjoy your coments too and the fact that we are both Canadians makes me understand you way better than many others. Lets say I am both Moroccan and Canadian. Moroccan because my ancestry dates back to King Idris I (the founder of the Idrissi dynasty) a decendant of Imam Alhassan Ibn Ali (RAA) and I am also a Canadian citizen (I moved to Toronto, Canada in 1990 & finished my university degree in Glendon Campus, York university).
I could not, would not & will never cherish the thought of switching sides because every vein in my blood bears witness that there is no God but Allah & that Muhammed is his prophet and messenger.
I am Muslim first and formost and Arab second and Canadian third and I love my people very much but I do care about every human being in this planet and want them to care about Muslims too.
I will never forget one day in my university life where I gave a presentation about the Quran and science and won the heart of two Christian students who came to me and stated that my presentation -with evidence from the Quran and Dr Maurice Beaucaille video tape- proved to them that the Quran is the word of God and became Muslims on the spot that same day.
I just want to say that people can change if we approach them politely and with good evidence from the Quran and the Sunnah. Evidence from the creator Allah (swt) and the Ahadith of the doctor of all hearts our beloved prophet Muhammed (pbuh). We should all remember that today's enemy could become tomorrow's friend.

Allah ibarek fik as well!
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HUDD FROM CANADA said:
Oh,no Sirius,you're not going to leave this site.

"I have noticed that my last posts have been quite, well, too negative. I don't see point in continuing if I don't have more constructive things to say." Your posts were not negative. You just expressed your thoughts and believes, if anybody disagrees with that he/she is free to present his counter-argument and you might accept it or continue yet to your original opinion. I would ask you to define negativity, but let me tell you my definition. Negativity would be for our site, an activity that disregards reasoning and would use dishonest ways to serve a pre-determined purpose. I believe that you don't have a pre-determined purpose, but rather like a good many majority on this site, you're are looking for some answers and personal experience in our common struggle to understand the world that revolves around us. You as well as the good many understands that we as individuals are not an absolute measure to human thought. Any difference in this wide world must constitute an intellectual challenge as long as it's not generated by arrogance, ignorance and self-righteousness.

Sirius, you have nothing to fear, this website is as much your right as mine or anybody else's and as long as there is one person that appreciates what you say, you should reconsider your rush decision.

I'm not saying good bye, but rather:

"Peace!...untill the rise of morn." and beyond as you would say.
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DR EDRISS FROM US said:


circus or circuit city, I'm not bashing anybody buddy :). you can disagree with me, no problem. I just wish that you understand what I write before you disagree :).

I call this guys cross worshippers and you got that one right. is this bashing? if it is just from my imagination, it will be considered bashing, ok?

bring us any of those that you call christians here and ask them what is the cross for them? ask them why they hang cross on them? ask them why they glorify the cross? and ask them: do they not teach that their supposed god suffered on the cross?

since christian suppose to be follower of christ, who never hanged cross or prayed with one or to one, how can you accept to call them following christ while you see them following cross?

use your brain and not your emotions? and make me liar if it is not cross worshippers.

they call us the moslems terrorists!!! I never been in the court, never killed somebody, never bombed something, never drove plane and never owned gun and I'm sure the majority of the moslems are at least like me. and following some brothers here, I'm the last of the moslems. just figure out the quality of the others?

I just don't recall myself heard anybody in this world saying that those who call us terrorists are bashing us.

come on maaaan! you are going to live only one life. try your best to tell the reality as you see it? do you want live this life without enjoying to speak the truth for once?

as for those who speak about "rapprochement", what kind of rapprochement can you get between someone lying and someone telling the truth? it is always gonna be turning the truthful people to liars!!!

the peace that is necessary for us, we can acheive it only by not starting wars. unfortunatly for those who want blame Islam for something, all the wars of today are inside the Islamic world. you have to be blind to believe the opposit.
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SIRIUS FROM FINLAND said:
sircus :) and zinewhatever. You need some help with spelling names? That's Si-ri-us. Once again Si-ri-us. Got it?
One always takes the risk here when asking questions someone else answers. You, doctor, are well-known "cross-worshippers" basher here. That is something you can't sweep under irrelevant smileys you drop here and there. You pretend to smile in the front and stab in the back when you're behind. Don't tell me you love me cos you don't. Who are you trying to fool? I quess yourself only. Take Hudd as an example and try to learn, if you can. He is an honest and straight guy, which you really ain't. His honesty is respectable, no matter is he my friend OR my opponent.
Why did you rise that question in this context anyway in the fist place? May I, Dr$$$, try to understand?. In this article pope was shown in positive light. It triggered some positive feedback. And that was too much to you. You had to hurry to cease this undesireable development by dropping your question. Fine, warmhearted act, eh.
In some other context you may have had answers. But under this article your question was, excuse me my vulgar expression, like a loud fart at a dinnertable. You don't get answers cos everyone else have run out, holding their noses & breath. You "gentleman" just couldn't help winding it!
" I know for sure you are reading my questions but you are scared to answer." And now this guy is battering his chests like King Kong! You belong to circus, if someone.
But listen,I got some good news to you too. This is my last post here in IC. I have noticed that my last posts have been quite, well, too negative. I don't see point in continuing if I don't have more constructive things to say. I'm adding fuel to the flames, in other words wasting my time, that is. Hudd, stay cool!

Shining off....

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D. THOMAS said:
Yes there is no denying that some Atheists have been known to ask for foregiveness before dying. This is part of human nature, but this again doesn't prove an existance of a higher force, but a weakness in man. I won't go in the personal details but once in my life I had a situation worst then my own death, and I didn't pray to God, but used my inner resolve to make it thru.

Religion in some ways could be called a coping mechanism. Mine was my logic, and my understanding of myself thru my readings of philosophy, science and yes even religious text. I'm not a communist, but a secular humanist!

Hudd I don't quite understand your statement saying that boys are worshipped in the West. I can't say as I have seen that situation. My recollection would be that children be they male or female were equally appreciated by parents and the community.

To all the Mothers in the world 'Happy Mother's Day'!
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HUDD FROM CANADA said:
Doubtful Thomas, I need to tell you, you are not the measure of things. Of course you do mistakes, spelling and otherwise, I was just being sarcastic. Where are you from anyway? You so dilligently hide your identity. According to your script, you could pass as an American, then why would you conceal that? I don't think English was your second language and I wonder what made you believe it was my second? I hope not my spelling mistakes which in fact were more of a typo, if you get my drift. Anyway, you want me to believe that you got deseased in your head at the age of five, atheism and you did not develop a bit and still you possess your five years old brain. Of course your father didn't argue with you, in your society boys are worshipped. One thing is not to believe in a religious system,Hinduism,Judaism,Christianity,Islam,etc, but believe in the existense of a supernatural force,being,intelligence, God in other terms, I can stomach that. However denying the existence of God as the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe is what in Islam is called kufr. The greatest sin. Although I might appreciate some of your thoughts, you totally lose any respect with me by denying the existense of God as God not as described by any religion but a God you fear in your heart when you are told that a terminal desease would end your existence in a determined time. Believe me, I met atheists of Communist orientation that denied God all their life. I witnessed the death of two. While dying in their beds, they were calling on God. I wonder why? They didn't call on Marx or Lenin. Whom are you going to call on when dispair would grasp your heart in an iron fist? Don't even try, Thomas, when that time comes you will cfry out to your Creator,inside your dying soul, you will know...God exists!
Peace to you now.
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D. THOMAS said:
Thanks for your post Zindine (Ref: 37652), the verse 109 1 to 6 is one of my favorites also. Even as an atheist there is much to be learned from religious text, even if the reader doesn't believe in a God. I agree with you that there is a need in humans to believe in something greater then them. But I also believe that is one in the main arguements that religion and god is man created due to that need. That is my personal belief.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Muslims (or other people of faith) because they have a different belief system then me. When I was a young boy one of my best friends was muslim, I have fond memories during childhood discussing the questions in life. Each respecting the others beliefs. My firt interactions with Islam were exetremely positive.

Is it my fault that at the age of 5 I told my father that I don't believe in God and don't want to go to church. I thank my father for respecting my wishes, and left me at home as the family would go to church. My father taught me a lesson that is in the Koran. That being that there can be no compulsion in religion!

To the others I didn't realise that I was getting 'bashed'! I believe most of the time when you do your bashing you end up proving my point of view. Sorry to Hudd I didn't mean to mark you for life with the spelling comment. I make mistakes also, but don't go around insulting people about their level of intelligence. I try to stick to the issues. So it is ok Hudd, I make mistakes typing also.

Finally a new article named 'The split within Islam must end', just supports my point of view that before that a 'rapprochement' has to be done within each religion before it can be done between Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
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HUDD FROM CANADA said:
Edriss .. Little knowledge is a dangerous thing and this is what you are playing with, brother, little knowledge. Now you really believe yourself a doctor of some kind or your Dr title is cosmetic in nature like that of Dr Dre?

The name is Zinedine, not zinewhatever, it is not polite to make fun of Islamic names. If you don't know what Zinedine stands for you could ask him to explain it to you. Zinedine could teach you one thing or another about true Islam. I learnt a lot from him and still enjoy his comments very much. He is a dear brother to me and a Canadian compatriot, although he feels himself more of a Moroccan.

Sirius is an educated Christian that won't take bullshit for truth. Although we differ in opinions his opinions are well founded and warrented, he's one of the most polite and sensible visitors on this site. Spare him and me of your asanine insinuations.

If you want a fair treatment on this site respect the people there in. As it was revealed to the prophet,pbuh,"Deal with fairness among the people." You notice it was said among the people, not Muslims, because the incident was between a thieving Muslim and a defrauded Jew. So God called on Muhammad,pbuh, to deal in fairness among people, and he did, that is he prosecuted the Muslim and gave the Jew his fundamental right as a human to his property. But as much as you believe yourself to be you would know this already. My question would be, why don't you apply it? There is not two camps one Christian and one Muslim. There are two camps alright, one made up of assailants and the other of victims. Therefore a common effort has to be done by all religions to end war and colonization for good and usher in an era of peace for all. Because peace for some and oppression for others is not going to bring peace on Earth. Read, Edriss, read! Reading is good. May God have mercy on your soul!
Peace!
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ZINEDINE FROM MOROCCO said:
Thank you Sirus for your comments!
Salaamu alaikum,
Edriss, Only Allah knows how much I know about Islam...suffice to say that I took Islam very seriously since 1979. Your behaviour towards me and others is counter productive my brother in Islam. Thank you Allah for Your TOLERANCE and for being the MOST PATIENT towards your creatures:
Surah 109 Alkafiroon (The Disbelievers, Atheists)
"1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship,
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your Way, and to me mine. "
Surat 5 Almaida (The table spread):
Edriss: You need to know that Allah created made us different for a reason but He still wants us to be nice to another:
"48. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;"
D Thomas, my brother in humanity : you need to know that belief and faith is part of Fitra (human nature) and disbelief is a form of confusion, anger, deviance and disobedience not just to towards God but towars nature too. Pls read this verse many times to know that people will always disagree regarless of of where they come from:

Surat 11 Hud

118." If thy Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind one people: but they will not cease to dispute."

May Allah guide us all to His straight path!

Ameen

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D. THOMAS said:
I cringed when I heard Muslims happily say that Allah was responsable for Katrina. That Allah did it to teach the unbelievers a lesson. How absurd and stupid, what about the unfortunate people of Pakistan I believe that had to suffer the horrific earthquake where many times more people died then Katrina. Was Allah teaching them a lesson also. I feel bad for all human suffering be it people of faith or people of free thinking.

Along time ago people used religion to explain the unexplainable, today we know why some things happen, and it isn't religion but science that explains it. Science doesn't explain all, but with time it will be able to explain more to us. Some things science will probably never explain, and that is ok, and it doesn't mean that it takes a religious explanation, just that we haven't the knowledge yet to find out for ourselves.

H.A.'scomment about Westerners being nudists is quite funny, from what tv show did you learn that. That comment was as correct as your other comments! The connection between praying and what it can accomplish are highly overrated. As a Muslim who prays five times a day, I think you should of been able to figure that out by now!
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HUDD FROM CANADA said:
Allahu Akbar! H.A., I coudn't say it better myself, yeah, you figured out pretty good this atheist wannabe, Thomas the Doubtful!

Mazinger, jazak Allahu khairan, brother, let's stick together to the rope of Allah and bash these kafirs that pose on pretentious names like Thomas the Doubtful as atheists! There was a guy that came out straight and posted as "Kafir". At least he was honest and he knew exactly what he was.

Dr Edriss, your point is well founded. Let's not forget the Inquisition and the attrocities of the Catholic curch throughout the Native lands of the Americas. If they repent they should do it publicly and unequivocal. Untill then it's just another cloak in their hypocritical garderobe. Excellent comment, thank you.

Zinedine, brother, I admired you from the very beginning. But if your comments start hurting your brothers and win the approval of the kafir is not a good sign. We lost a brother, Ahmad Akbar, that started well then switched sides to the other camp. I would hate to lose you too. Your knowledge of Islam, Islamic and world history is of great help to us on this website to maintain our arguments with this throng of ignorants posing as professors. The most they can excell in is spelling, which is done for them by 'spellcheck' anyway. But like Thomas the Doubtful they claim that knowing where the bottom is on your program and use it is a matter of great degree of intelligence and human achievement. I hope you feel me and don't take my comment as a personal affront on your integrity. Allah i-barak fik!

Sirius, define Christian! After you did, I believe you don't consider Benny Hin and the maltitutes of evangelic neo-Protestents as Christians. Unless you were one of them. For me a Christian is without denomination although he could belong to any. M.L.King, Jesse Jackson, Desmond Tutu and others are what I consider Christians. There are of course, not famous personalities that are as good Christians, like some of my compatriots,e.
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DR EDRISS FROM US said:
sircus :) and zinewhatever, you sound unable to understand english and not interesting to learn little bit of it. you were not asked or required to answer anything I asked your gods the catholics. just take your time and discuss with yourselves who you are? no one invited you to answer for them! you have very low level in logic...!!! if you bought computer and you ended in discussion board, that's not mean whatever people post must be for you.
online, I see your IPs more logical than you! your IPs will never conflict with other IPs who did not ping them. try to grow up little bit and understand how the world arround you works?
you bearly understand something in Islam and your inane is shining. can you, in breaf, tell us what do you believe? that's if I consider that your kind of people can believe something other than $$$?

by the way, I'm not attacking you as you may think! I'm just having fun at the clown in circus :).

back to the catholism who are more impotant than you(at least in this topic). can you my best friends the catholic explain why the flu defeated the holy spirit? or why God doesn't listen to the catholics when they reach 2 million worshippers? or at least, why the wide wild western media can not even comment on the the war that happened between the flu and the holy spirit and end it in favore of the flu? :)
even if you can't answer me, I will still love you people :).

I know for sure you are reading my questions but you are scared to answer. don't worry? I'm a simple humanbeing trying to learn from you if you have answers.
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H.A. FROM YATHRIB said:
Way to go Mazinger Z!!! You have shot the arrow right in the "uncivilized center"/heart of Mr. Thomas the doubtful. He is a typical son of the west who was born and raised in a fronicating and nudist society. All they know about is booze and nudity. Most of the doctors, engineers, technical and hardworking people are Asians and "illegal" Mexicans/South Americans. NOte: [[[Undocumented Mexicans in USA are NOT illegal; they are coming back to their homeland. Mr. Thomas (if he is residing in USA) is an illegal resident)]]]

Mr. D.Thomas and his cohorts are LAZY. That's why he does not know anything about sharia and Islam. No wonder slavery took place in the WEst. They are lazy. They are still apolozing for it. Just today French president apologized for slavery. TOO LATE!!! Soon they will apologize for the Iraq war. Soon (right after Iran develop NUKES and have a launching device like the Russians) they will apologize for the creation of the zionist state. That would be too late, too.

The problem is that
The "civlized people" of the West do not understand the definition of decency , let alone Sharia, Islam etc and Muslims.

They are all lost in the wave of booze/"civilized fluid". D. Thomas is a typical self-proclaimed expert like those who show up on FOXNEWS, CNN, and other infidellic/zionist networks on Islam.

They are a very sad and fake group of people. On my recent trip to the West from LOVELY Yathrib, I was irritated by the fake smiles of Mr. Thomas's cohorts living in the West.

I encourage Muslims to flood the West and civilize these people. It is apparent they will never learn to grow up and be civilized on their own.

Very sad. Very sad group of people living on Earth.

It is the TRUTH. IF Mr. D. Thomas has hard time swallowing the truth, he should find a ranch and feed cows to control his anger. Bushly speaking, he should find a ranch and feed cows for the "pacificity" of his "minds". I know it is hard work...

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D. THOMAS said:
Mazinger, you know nothing of me, and therefore are incorrect in your statement. I have read all of the Koran once. I have read many phrases many times, and have read to many books to mention on Islam along with other religions. My girlfriend is is even a Muslim, well I should say an ex-Muslim. Also I have friends who are Muslim, and they know of my position on religion and Islam.

Religion is not the source of all of societies ills, and if it didn't already exist it would be created, due to the need of man to feel a part of something greater. However just because humans have this need, it certainly doesnt make it true. Humans have many needs, some good and some bad. Unfortunately this need like others is a source in which they can be manipulated and controlled.

In Time magazines 100 most important people of the 20th century 19 were atheists, and 5 of the top ten were atheist. So much for atheist being lazy.
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DR EDRISS FROM US said:


I didn't know that the catholics too unable to answer what I was thinking about :O. at least one atheist tried but he couldn't understand what I was talking about :).

sounds like where the religion of the west(general case) stop, the atheism begin. like that the people of the west will be always played by shaytan and kept away from the truth.

do you have clue, Mr atheist wannabe, why the holy spirit, who always protect the holy pope, left him down against the flu? try to use the evolution to tell us how the flu evolved to something the holy spirit can't heal? :).

Mr the atheist wannabe, I admire your way of thinking :) : or christianity or nothing = what you call atheism. there is not 1 per million chance for you that Islam, the strange thing for you, can be the right thing and you are unable to cross the door of learning it correctly.

this is new information for you about Islam: people are free following Islam, to understand that Islam is the truth and choose to not accept it: means you can come and tell me, I did not find any mistake in Islam and I believe it is the truth but I refuse to follow it. it will be no war between me and you unless if you start it. don't think this is my words? this is just the meaning of Allah's words "you do not guide those you love, but Allah guides to Him whom He will"
personaly, I prefer deal with atheists than others when it comes to not moslems. at least, atheists can understand easy that they have to be accounted with what they do to get mutuel respect from others. unlike the one who claim to follow jesus now, they blame all the troubles they do to you on jesus. it is clear unfair belief but what can you do about it? jesus said if someone slap you, turn the other chick! them they slap you and tell you jesus died for that sin :).

if 2 million people came together to pray for Howard Stern, the supreme court will not force him to move to satellite. but for the pope... :)
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SIRIUS FROM FINLAND said:
Good point, Zinedine, the reference to those serbian soldiers. This doctor never misses possibility to assault christians.
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MAZINGER Z FROM UK said:
Thomas, you are deluded. Athiests are at best, lazy philosophizers who blame religion for the ills of mankind. I doubt you know anything about Islam outside of the 5 second sound bites and serial misinformation widely available in your state media.
May want to read a history book first.
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ZINEDINE FROM MOROCCO said:
Let Allah (swt) speak:

" Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance." Surat Annahl

Holy Qu'ran
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D. THOMAS said:
As an atheist I don't believe that it will be possible to have a "rapprochement". With what I have read in the teachings of Islam, that would be impossible. Anyway before that is possible it will be necessary for the Christian religion (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox) to unify along with the Muslim religion (ie Shia and Sunni and all the other lesser variations. If you take Christianity and Islam over the last centuries they have been dividing up in different sects.

Every day there are more and more religions, further dividing people, and deluding them to the real world.

I Think everybody should be an atheist, then religion would not divide people.
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DR EDRISS FROM US said:

wa alaikom assalam zinedine.

I was asking the christian fellows question and from the descipline of any conversation is if you do not have an answer, just stay quiet better?

I never heard of a moslem telling people in bosnia that he has holy spirit that can use to defend or heal other moslems. if you know such thing, we will accept your story about the serbian and the blah blah...

Allah said in the Quran "Allah doesn't change what's with people untill they change what's inside them" you can learn little bit about Islam Akhi and later try to get smart. that sign is valid for any people on Earth.

I still wish some good catholic explain to me why the holy spirit can heal only people filmed by TBN and not the holy pope...? :)
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ZINEDINE FROM MOROCCO said:
Salaamu alaikum,

Edriss,

You sound like the Serbian soldiers that told their Bosnian captives: " If Allah exists then ask Him to save your life now from real death?" I hope you get the message?

Lots of Christians know that Bennyy Hinn and the likes of these pastors are charlatans. They profess that they can heal Christians from incurable diseases thru true faith in Jesus as their lord & saviour. Pastors like him have been exposed by many experts in fraud. They have been busted with their cronies- including the liars that are on their pay roll pretending to have incurable diseases or being physically challenged and they don't to begin with.

We do know that the Bible has been modified many times i.e (King James version has been edited in and out 25 times) the faith itself has been changed by Paul and Martin Luther and many others but it is counter productive and impolite to look down on people because they have been wronged and or misinformed. We Muslims need to show them care and respect because they are our fellow human beings regardless of whether they are the people of the book or not. We need do dawa (propagate Islam) with wisdom not thru insults and ridicule of their faiths.


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DR EDRISS FROM US said:
I will consider that the article meant with jesus the Prophet Aissa Alaihe Assalam.

..
about the pope, I still want some catholics help me to understand some issues about his sickness and death.

did he has the flu? and why the holy spirit didn't heal the flu for him?? also, I'm amazed how, those priests or preachers on TBN channel, can heal disabled people and cancers but didn't heal the flu for their fellow christian? it is very amazing to me and I wish someone can help me.

something else very amazing: 2 million good catholic christians gathered to pray for the pope to get healed!!! after that he died immediatly...! I'm troubled in this too: how can the Almighty return back the prayer of 2 million people?

as humanbeing, I have nothing against any other humanbeing. I just want people call the things that they witness with the right words and stop blinding themselves on the reality.
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ADAM IBRAHIM MUHAMMAD FROM NIGERIA said:
To Joy

Is not only on-line that u become a muslim. Ask the next muslim nearest to u (or u meet on the street) that u want to become a muslim. He/She will give u the Shahada and from that moment u are a muslim, Islamicity does'nt even have to know.

May Allah help u in ur struggles to follow His guidance, ameen.
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AKHTAR ALI KHAN FROM USA said:
I strongly agree with this article. As Muslims, we should do extra efforts to reach out to our Christian brothers and sisters, and explain to them the good virtues of Islam which have lately been overshadowed by the actions of some ignorant people.

p.s. Also I would like to sponsor and pay for the one-year membership of Joy Boatman, who posted a comment earlier to this article, and also stated that he would like to take shahadah on Islamicity, but cannot do so because he does not have a credit card to become a member of Islamicity. Can the management of Islamicity let me know how can I pay for the annual memeber ship for joy boatman, so that Joy can take shahadah on-line. May Allah (SWT) guide all of us to the right path and have mercy on us.

wassalam
AK
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R.R. FROM USA said:
Assalamu Alaikum. I agree with this article. I am a revert to
Islam and was raised Catholic so I also totally emphasize the
need to continue to build bridges between our Catholic/
Christian brothers and sisters. Pope John Paul II constantly
demonstrated the true tolerance of Christianity by reaching out
to not only Muslims, but members of other faiths as well. I pray
other Christians will follow his example and that us Muslims
strive to also show the tolerance our Prophet (saw) practiced in
every aspect of his life.
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JOY BOATMAN FROM UNITED STATES said:
i agree with this whole heartedly. we need to understand each others religions and in my own search for answers i have found islam to be the one true path to paradise but i cant do shahada online for i cant become a member for i have no credit card to access a membership but i agree with all my heart... may allah bless you all love noura
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