Pope John Paul II's death will be mourned not just by the tens of millions of Roman Catholics around the world but also by other Christian denominations and followers of all other faiths. Muslims in the Middle East will feel the loss particularly deeply.
John Paul's 26-year pontificate will go down as one of the more remarkable in the church's history because he was not afraid to be strongly critical when he believed world leaders were behaving wrongly or dishonestly. From the very beginning of his reign, he announced his absolute support for peace and justice, not least for the Palestinians.
Remembering the man who had so often voiced sadness at the cycle of violence blighting the Holy Land, Palestinians gathered in the square in front of Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity and kept up vigils for him. Nabil Abu Rudeina, spokesman for Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, voiced the feelings of many: "He shared the sufferings of the Palestinian people ... We will miss him." Palestinian Foreign Minister Nasser Al-Qidwa spoke for the world when he said that the pope "had contributed to building bridges between religions and civilizations and to consolidating the roots of peace and friendship between the peoples."
John Paul was equally strident in his condemnation of George W. Bush's plans to invade Iraq which he described as "a crime against peace and a defeat for humanity." Until the very last minute, papal envoys were doing all they could to head off what he saw as not a solution but a bloody escalation of the challenge posed by Saddam.
John Paul meant what he said and millions of people, not only in the Middle East but around the world, were deeply grateful for his strong moral stands. It may yet prove that he was instrumental in stopping the Americans from turning the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions into a new crusade against Islam. Despite President Bush's typically unfortunate use of the word "crusade" after 9/11, American policy became notably more sensitive toward Islam. The pope meanwhile made a point of apologizing to the Muslim world for the original Crusades. Shortly after 9/11, John Paul called a day of prayer for peace at the shrine of St. Francis of Assisi which was attended by Muslim and Jewish religious leaders as well as representatives from Christian groups. His simple, somber message was that war and violence solved nothing and that nations would only advance through peace and brotherhood.
He was not prepared to compromise his clear moral view for anyone. His simplicity and abundantly clear good faith carried the Roman Catholic Church through the immense upheavals of post-Communist Europe and into the dangerous new world of aggressive American diplomacy.
Right after his election, John Paul said the Roman Church should "make known... our intention to really devote ourselves to the continual and special cause of peace, of development and justice among nations." And he never wavered from that view. He will be greatly missed.
I've shown you the hadiths, through at-Tabarani, at-Tirmidhi, both hadiths are rigorously authenticated as Sahih by 18 hadith MASTERS. And now you can see what the Salaf as-Saliheen (Tabi'een wa Tabi'e Tabi'een) said about these hadiths too.
I do understand urdu (and speak it fluently)
I will get back to you on weak isnad about AbuLahab and the other hadiths you have pointed out.
I will look into Bukhari and more importantly ask scholars.
As for pope, you are right you asked for mercy. But without getting to pedantic, asking for mercy implies forgiveness. I cannot get to much into philosophical arguments as it is not my strong point. I prefer to concentrate on basics.
"Oh Allah, I ask You and turn to You through my Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy; O Muhammad (Ya Muhammad), I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight [and in another version: "for my need, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah, grant him intercession for me"]."
The Prophet (sawaws) added, "And if there is some need, do the same."
Tabarani, in his "al-Mu'jam al saghir," reports a hadith from 'Uthman ibn Hunayf that a man repeatedly visited Uthman ibn Affan (ra) concerning something he needed, but Uthman paid no attention to him or his need. The man met Ibn Hunayf and complained to him about the matter - this being after the death (wisal) of the Prophet (sawaws) and after the caliphates of Abu Bakr and Umar - so Uthman ibn Hunayf, who was one of the Companions who collected hadiths and was learned in the religion of Allah, said: "Go to the place of ablution and perform ablution (wudu), then come to the mosque, perform two rak'as of prayer therein, and say:
'O Allah, I ask You and turn to You through our Nabi Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy; O Muhammad (Ya Muhammad), I turn through you to my Lord, that He may fulfill my need,' and mention your need. Then come so that I can go with you [to the caliph Uthman]." So the man left and did as he had been told, then went to the door of Uthman ibn Affan (ra), and the doorman came, took him by the hand, brought him to Uthman ibn Affan, and seated him next to him on a cushion. 'Uthman asked, "What do you need?" and the man mentioned what he wanted, and Uthman accomplished it for him..."
Hadith PROVES tawassul through the dead.
SAHIH by Baiyhaqi, Mundhiri, Haythami.
Your comments about the hadith of Abu Lahab is WRONG and false. It is not weak, it's isnaad is good and in fact has been reported in Sahih Muslim. How can you say, of all people that it's isnad is questionable? Stop lying man.
You're not disputing the scholars? Yes you are, first let me start by what Siraaj said: "The proof is always in the evidences, not in the scholars." Buddy, if you say something different than the scholars, then you are going against the scholar. You think you know more than the scholars, and what they have said abou the status of Rasool-Allah (Sawaws).
How did you determine what is weak and what is strong? Are you a master of hadith? Have you memorized hundreds of thousands of hadiths? This is what I am trying to get through your thick skull. You guys are NOT muhaddiths, you are not Islamic scholars, so stop pretending to be.
Show me proof to show which of the Salaf as-Saliheen said that the hadith of Abu Lahab is weak???? SHOW ME if you are such a great scholar?
I suggest you the editors of Islamcity, post the hadiths I put up about the Blind Man and the Man in Need, and then all of you will be quiet about seeking the intercession of hte prophet (sawaws) after he has passed away. I haev posted it three time, and you, the editors refuse to post it, yet you post the comments of others so easily while you do not give me the opportunity to provide the honest truth? I mean this man Asif Ziddi is lying through his teeth saying the hadith of Abu Lahab is weak. It is found in Sahih Bukhari Ziddi. Live with it.
The blind man addressed the Prophet by saying, "O Prophet of Allah, ask Allah for me to cure my blindness." The Prophet replied by saying, "If you wish, you would be patient with your calamity, and if you wish, I will ask Allah to cure your blindness."
However, the blind man told the Prophet: "The loss of my sight is a great hardship for me, and there is no one near to guide me around."
At this moment, the Prophet ordered the man to go to the place where al-wudu' would be performed, perform alwudu', pray two rak^ah, end his salat by saying as-salamu ^alaykum, and then say the following words:
O Allah, I ask You, and I direct myself to You in supplication by our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I direct myself to Allah by you, so my need [here the specific need is mentioned] would be fulfilled.>> The blind man went and did as the Prophet ordered. Shortly thereafter, he returned to the Prophet's session with his blindness cured.
after the death of the Prophet, and during the time of the caliphate of ^Uthman Ibn ^Affan, a man came to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf. This man complained to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf about a matter which he needed to be fulfilled through the caliph, but which was not being fulfilled. ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf ordered the man to go to the place where al-wudu' would be performed, perform al-wudu', perform two rak^ah, and after saying assalam to say the following words: 'O Allah, I ask You and I direct myself to You in supplication by our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I direct myself to Allah by you, so my need [specify need] would be fulfilled.
No one is disputing the knowledge of the great scholars. Both Siraj and I are disputing YOUR understanding of what the scholars have said.
1) Wrt going to graves, it is clearly shirk. As siraj said, the evidence you gave is against you. Umar (ra) went to Abbas (ra) while Abbas was ALIVE - not dead. You (incorrectly) extrapolate this to mean we can go to graves of dead people.
2) Wrt asking for asking for popes forgiveness. It is clear that it is wrong. The evidence is abundant. I can repost my post to Peter if you want.
The evidence you gave of AbuLahab has two main flaws a) it has weak isnad (lets be clear on this) and this is more than sufficient to discredit any derived opinions and b) prophet gave it for 1 specific person like I said earlier.
It is your understanding which is wrong.
This whole thread started because you were asking for popes forgivness.
THIS IS WRONG (repeat after me, Akbar). YOU CANNOT ASK FOR FORGIVENESS FOR A NON-MUSLIM ONCE HE/SHE IS DEAD.
The evidence which I have given is from Quran, sunnah. Read up on the proper aqeedah, fundamentals of Islam instead of going to Sufi conferences where they don't even concentrate on basics.
The scholars of Ahl' as-Sunnah wa'l Jam'aah understood the evidences a million times better than you or I. They memorized hundreds of thousands of hadiths and spent their lifetimes dedicated to teaching us what these hadiths mean and furthermore, they preserved these very hadiths you adn I are reading, so I would ask you to start respecting what they have to say about these hadiths and what they mean.
To the editors, I would appreciate it if you would post the hadiths/evidences I posted about the blind man and the man in need, that is supported by al-azhar university, as it is written in the book reliance of hte traveler, and furthermore found in the books of Imam at-Tabarani, and Imam at-Tirmidhi. Jazak-Allah.
The proof is always in the evidences, not in the scholars. You can point to all the great scholars you like, and I acknowledge many of those you have mentioned are great.
The lithmus test is in the evidences. Tell me with the authenticity of the evidences you used are? Most are weak.
The only strong ones you've used are regarding the Prophet's uncle, and that is an evidence against you, not for you. You'll note that the Prophet's uncle was ALIVE at the time of the famine and when Umar was asking for his uncle to make du'a.
There is nothing wrong with asking someone to make du'a for you, and no one has said such, so long as they are ALIVE. When they are dead, then the one who makes du'a can either be committing a bid'ah, minor shirk, or major shirk depending on how they ask for what they ask, and what is in their mind regarding the status and powers the one they are asking.
Returning back to the original discussion, you have failed to provide any evidence regarding making du'a for those who have died as a nonMuslim. There is no doubt that we can make du'a for those who are alive, even if nonMuslim, but you've been provided ample evidence for why Allah (SWT) has forbidden such actions, and you've offered no evidences in return.
Hafidh ibn Kathir records this hadith said by Sahabi Hadhrat Bilal ibn Harith (ra) at the grave of Nabi Muhammad(sawaws):
"Ya Rasul-Allah (Oh messenger of Allah), ask Allah to give rain to your Ummah; they are close to perish..."
Can you accuse one of the prophet's companions, of shirk? La hawla wa la quwutta illah billah, I really hope you do not make such a statement. It is clear that Sahabi Bilal (ra) first and foremost, talked to the prophet (sawaws) at his grave, and secondly, sought his means unto Allah, in asking for rain. Do you understand now that all power lies with Allah, we have no disagreement there brother, but to say that Allah does not grant miracles and wishes to people who seek the means of the prophet (sawaws) or Awliya-Allah shows me that neither of you have never read one book by an orthodox scholar from Ahl' as-Sunnah, such as Imam as-Suyuti, Imam al-Ghazzali, Imam Nawawi, Imam at-Tahawi, Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal, Imam Shafi'e...have you even read what they say about Tawassul? You say you know arabic better than me gloating like you are some supreme master. Unlike you, I can openly say that I am nothing close to being a scholar or one who reads arabic with any such understanding as Ahl' as-Sunnah 'Ulema throughout the ages. Can you say that you are smarter than them or a better scholar than them or better versed in arabic than these 'Ulema? Whether you go to Ahmed ibn Taymiyya, ibn al-Qayyim or ibn Kathir, they all believed in Tawassul too.
After reading the above hadith, are you going to say that Hafidh ibn Kathir made a mistake now or that he did shirk too?? Please just think about what you say before you say it. As Salaamu 'Alaiykum.
"O ye who believe, fear Allah and seek ye the means to Him" (Sura al-ma'ida, verse 34)
Tawassul of Ibn Abbas (RA) to Imam Ali (AS). And note that Ibn Abbas spoke the following
words after the martyrdom of Imam Ali. Thus he did ask for intermediary of what you would call a deceased person:
"When the death time of Abdullah Ibn Abbas (RA) approached, he said: 'O Allah! I seek to approach toward you by means of Wilayah of Ali Ibn Abi Talib.'"
Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, volume 2, page 662, Tradition #1129
al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, volume 3, page 167
Now look at what it says in Sahih al-Bukhari:
Volume 2, Book 17, Number 123:
Whenever drought threatened them, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain." And so it would rain.
Volume 5, Book 57, Number 59:
Whenever there was drought, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to ask Allah for rain through Al'Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib, saying, "O Allah! We used to request our Prophet to ask You for rain, and You would give us. Now we request the uncle of our Prophet to ask You for rain, so give us rain." And they would be given rain."
--Now you see, tawassul has NOTHING to do with shirk.
On mercy, I clarified myself already. It's your narrow mindedness which leads you to manipulate whatever you feel like. I have already shown that you cannot say it is un-Islamic for mercy to come upon a non-Muslim, especially for one who showed kindness and love and honour for the Ummah of Nabi Muhammad (sawaws).
No one said he died
Furthermore, why did Allah forbid the asking of forgiveness of certain people in the ayah that Asif Zaidi quoted? You're dodging questions and changing topics.
Lets clarify - you know the Eng translation of these terms not the Arabic meaning. And thats why you play with semantics (have to vs had to) because you don't even know what you are talking about. What gall!!
Last time really - no more responses from me.
"As you are now leaving Asif, ask yourself, why do people "have to" do shirk? They are not having to do shirk out of necessity as you are saying, the truth is they are not doing shirk at all. You must learn about tawassul bro. You have to learn about adab and adl and ihsaan."
The people of Maner are not succumbing to making shirk - it is called tawassul brother. Once again please go and read the book, Reliance of the Traveler by Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller, and hte section on seeking itnercession. It clearly states that seeking the intercession of the prophets, the awliya, whether alive or in barzakh, is completely permissible and allowed in islam. That it has NOTHING to do with shirk. First and foremost, this is the stance of Ahl' as-Sunnah.
One thing I will tell you, Kuwait does not speak on behalf of the entire Arab consensus. Have you ever visited the scholars of Dubai, or Al-Azhar University, the oldest university in the world, the stronghold of sunni islam in the world? Well, that book I am telling you about, Reliance of the Traveler, will explain many things to you which you think you know about, but you really don't. The Kingdom of Kuwait is very much like the Kingdom in Saudia. They have their ways of doing things, but the fact of hte matter is, most arabs are not Saudi and they are not Kuwaiti. Whether u go to Jordan or Syria or Egypt or Morocco of Algeria or Yemen, you will find that the vast majority of people understand Ahl' as-Sunnah Aqeedah, in the same manner as is written in Reliance of hte Traveler. They ask for madad from Awliya-Allah and Rasool-Allah (sawaws) and his blessed family (radi-Allahu anhum). this is not shirk, and has nothing to do with shirk. If it did, Al-Azhar would say that it is shirk. Tawassul means seeking a means unto Allah, and it is completely and whole heartidly allowed in Islam. If you would like to argue, first go and read what Reliance of the Traveler says about Tawassul, and then u can ask me.
Yes Asif, you told me clear cut, stop reading urdu Qur'an. That shows me that you have very little trust in the urdu language. That is what disappointed me. Learn about your heritage my man.
You have clearly said that you want to beseech Allah to show mercy to pope. Well that is Islamically wrong.
You accuse me of being on a high horse - it is you accuse me of being worse than a racist, not understanding the unseen realm of spirituality. pray tell how do you claim to have more insight than me into the unseen. You don't - just because you wish that pope be shown mercy does not mean he will be shown mercy. especially when the evidence is clearly against it. Who is on the high horse?
I have not told (or tell) people to read the urdu /eng translation of Quran. It is when people form wrong conclusions on various topics that it starts to bother me. FYI, I grew up in Kuwait and there may be problems with Arab people, but let me tell you one thing - they have no problem with aqeedah which many people in subcontinent and even in US have.
As for Abu Lahab: first, this was done by the prophet and was for a very specific person. For general cases, the evidence in Quran and sunnah is clearly against asking for mercy for non-believers (look at Prophets Nuh, Ibrahim and even in Surah tawbah)
As for the poor people of Maner and elsewhere - I have very clearly said (and I do not beat around the bush) that Allah is just and he will deal with humanity justly esp if they had to do shirk because of poverty. I do not have answer for this.
My point from beginning: asking for forgiveness for a non-Muslim is wrong.
Good day and salaam-alaikum (as you are a Muslim)
The reason why I brought all of this up is to open up your eyes. You have not addressed my questions properly and have beat around the bush. You are openly telling everyone not to read Urdu Qur'an, and not saying why. That is not right because then you are saying all the Muslims in India and Pakistan who read Urdu Qur'an are doing wrong. Who are you to judge? Get over yourself. Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Maududi, and Ahmed Raza Khan and many other translations of the Qur'an into Urdu should not be read now, according to you. By you telling people not to read urdu Qur'an, is like saying that all the Muslims of India and Pakistan are doing wrong. When did you become so holy? Please, tell me more how you dislike the urdu language. Please share it I really want to read what you have to say now....
It is YOU from the very beginning, who is pre judging me and continuosly attempts to associate statements with me that are not mine, but yours. I never said that the Pope didn't die in a state of shirk, YOU are trying to say that I said he didn't. When that is not what I said at all. Just like how Abu Lahab is freed from punishment on mondays, I am sure that the Pope, for showing mercy to the ummah of Muhammad, would be rewarded by Allah for doing so. The problem lies in your narrow minded understanding of the unseen realm of spirituality. I have not dodged the question, I have given you a straight up answer about 3 times already. There is nothing wrong in beseeching Allah to show mercy to the pope for his acts of kindness and peace towards Muslims - so the problem lies in you trying to say that I said the Pope could enter Jannat. But you know very well that I never said that. Get off your high horse brother. The poor people of Bihar who go to the mazhar of Hazrat Makhdum Maneri are seeking his Wasilah. Do you think they're doing shirk?
As for hesham hasballas article, that does not contradict my point. The prophet had said to respect the deceased and stand up for him. In no way does this hadith instruct us to ask for mercy for the deceased. Furthermore, there are numerous other hadiths which indicate that you shoudl not ask for mercy.
As for the poor of Bihar and in general the people who live in poverty - this is my opinion (for what its worth). Allah swt is just and he will deal with humanity justly. What I can do is to help the poor in Bihar and elsewhere in terms of finance, educational institution etc..
Akbar, don't give me this rubbish about not being proud. BTW, like you have read inbetween the lines and jumped to conclusions about me not being proud, you have jumped to conclusions to about hadiths on dealing with non-Muslims.
Lastly, I will simply repeat what I have said earlier: one cannot ask for mercy for one who does shirk. And pope (as far as humans know) died in shirk.
Have you ever heard of Hazrat Makhdum Maneri? The city of Maner, Bihar is named after him. The city is East of Patna. And remember, it was Awliya like him, who converted the Buddhists of Bihar first to Islam. That's right, your SUFI ancestors are the ones who brought the message of Islam first to Bihar in the 13th century. Islam was spread by Sufism in Bihar. If it were not for Sufism, Islam would not have reached Bihar in the 13th century, and Islam would not have brought the truth of Islam there, and Bihar would still be completely Buddhist.
Can you accuse your Sufi Muslim ancestors, and the many poor people living in Bihar today, of shirk? Can you even go and accuse your fellow Bihari citizens, many of whom live in poverty and lack decent education, or shirk? I would just like to know what you think about that?
Please feel free to answer my questions. Hopefully my comment will get posted, Insha'Allah.
Well anyway, I'll say it again. Asif Zaidi, since you say you are from Bihar, it's even more of a shame that you are discouraging people from reading Urdu translation of the Qur'an. It shows me that you dislike your heritage and background. I agree, you're not a racist, you're worse than a racist. You're prejudiced against your own language. What a shame. Saddens me to know there are people like you out there.
I am Indian (from Bihar)
I can't be racist - I am a bit on the brown side :))
1) You still didn't answer my original point: the evidence against asking mercy for non-Muslims is forbidden. You may not like it but it is against Quran and sunnah.
Allahs mercy extends to Muslims only on day of judgment.
2) My quote about people like you reading a lot in Urdu/Eng and then passing judgements against Q&S on these basic issues still remains and it galls me no end.
"During the lifetime of the Prophet (pbuh), a funeral procession for a Jewish person had passed by where he and his companions were sitting. The Prophet (pbuh) stood up in respect, and when asked why by his companions, he replied, "Was not that a human soul?" Pope John Paul II was not just any human soul; he was a great human being, worthy of praise, admiration, and respect. Therefore, let this column - following the tradition of my beloved Messenger (pbuh) - be my "standing up" for Pope John Paul II as he passes from the life of this world to the next. The world has lost a truly outstanding man."
"Besides, Akbar, you know what I think of you - remeber what I said earlier. Learn Arabic instead of relying upon Urdu translations for quoting or understanding Islam."
A person like you, with such a racist view on people who are urdu speaking, doesn't deserve to be listened to at all. A person with such hatred against people who read Qur'an in other languages, is the problem with individuals like yourself. As I have already clarified, I read Arabic and English only - but that is besides the point. Your assumption of me has exposed the racist in you very clearly. Regardless of whether or not you say I am changing my story, I am not. By saying, "Allah have mercy on him," was because of him being a hand of peace to Muslims during a time when Muslims are in a state of seen upon with hostility and suspicion. So whether you like it or not, as Allah Subhanahu wa ta 'ala showers all his creation with mercy and blessings, what I said does not mean that I am asking Allah to save anyone from the hellfire or grant them paradise. That is YOUR PROBLEM for once again assuming what I meant because of your radical approach towards talking with people. So once again I am being forced to say, DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. Allah is ar-Rahman, and there is nothing that does not feel his mercy. So now disprove to me that not everything receives Allah's mercy. You know at this rate, the more you keep up the assumptions about me, the worse off your case becomes. Have a nice day.
Peace and keep up your search for answers. May Allah guide you to the right ones, insha'allah.
In your last post you changed your story and I quote you below:
"All I said was that I wanted to give all praise to Allah Subhanahu wa ta 'ala for making a leader of the Catholic faith for Muslims to dialogue with." Certainly different than asking for forgiveness for him !!
I am not making an exagerration as to your posts.
In your reply, you still did not address this issue, and I repeat that your statement about asking mercy/forgivess for pope is blatantly unIslamic (that is my point)
You can thank the pope fo his kindness to Muslims but not ask Allah for his forgiveness (also please note that the pope did not apologize to Muslims for crusades. He apologized to Jews. Please read the news. Yes I know he did go and talk to imams but did not apologizefor atrocities against our ancestors)
As for being friends and being kind to non-Muslims: it is our duty to be kind and mericful toward them and exemplify the best behavior as practiced by our Prophet. But that is
all - no more, no less.
One more thing: for your relatives who are non-believers (or any non-believer), WHILE they are alive you can ask Allah (swt) that they be guided to straight path (Islam)
That is only while they are alive. Once they are dead, the case is closed.
One more daleel:
1) When Abu Talib was dying, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) desperately tried to make him say the shahadah (and I do mean deperately from all accounts). The prophet said just say it and I will intercede on your behalf on day of judgment.
In majority of traditions, Abu Talib didn't. (Allah knows best).
I am saying the following: you cannot ask for forgiveness for people who have died as non-believers in Islam (even if they are your own relatives). You can ask for forgiveness for any Muslim.
Following are the daleel:
1) "It is not for the Prophet nor for those believe that they should seek forgiveness for the idolaters, even though they may be their kinsmen, after it has become clear to them that are the people of Hell-Fire."-At- Tawbah 9:113
2) The prophet was asked by a man if he could visit his mothers grave (who had died as a disbeliever). He said yes but did not give him permission to ask for magfirah.
3) After the flood had subsided, Prophet Nuh (Noah in English - pbuh) had asked for forgivness for his son who had drowned. He was reprimanded by Allah (swt) and told that his son was not of his family. Prophet Nuh (pnuh) asked for forgivness for his error.
4) Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham in Eng - pbuh) could not ask for forgiveness for his father (in addition to worshipping idols, there is some speculation he may have been the idol maker).
When Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) left Harran (Turkey), he told his father that because of his idolatory, he will not ask for magfirah.
These things are very difficult and I can understand this. But the Quran and sunnah are very clear. Maybe we cannot understand them but this is the way we have been taught in Quran and it is the way that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) and all previous prophets (pbut) practicesd Islam.
As usual, you should ask a proper alim for full interpration of above ayat and prophetic traditions. I am not an alim (but an engr)
( All good in above info is from Allah and all bad in above info is from me.
If you want more info feel free to email me @ [email protected])
Islam is the only way, no doubt Asif Zaidi. All I said was that I wanted to give all praise to Allah Subhanahu wa ta 'ala for making a leader of the Catholic faith for Muslims to dialogue with. I thank Allah for that, and I thank Allah for His mercy through his most beloved one Rahmatul-lil-Aalameen Muhammad Sal' Allahu 'Alaiyhi wa aalihi wa sallam. Does Islam forbid us from showing love for a fellow human being? Ya Allah... I hope you say no.
"Pope John Paul II did something that no one else dared to do in his position before. It was to use his status as a Uniter - to encourage inter-faith dialogue. Allah have mercy on him."
It is your last line which irked me - and that too from someone who has read so many books on Islam.
If that for not that line, I would not have written.
Akbar, it is YOU who is asking for mercy from Allah for a person who advocated the sin of trinity. Not me. I do not ask for mercy for him (nor do I ask for hell-fire for him. That is up to Allah).
What YOU are asking for is clearly against Qur'an and sunnah.
I am no alim or mujtahid or muntasir. I can't stand people like you who say they can go on internet and research and come up with an opinion.
As for my daleel, these evidences are clear in Quran and sunnah and alhumdulillah I can accept it. Like I said, it is YOU who is asking for mercy. That is patently flase from an Islamic perpective.
Asif Zaidi, Be careful when you speak, because the more you lie against me, the more it will only harm you and not I. I am not a Mujtahid, and I am not a Mufassir. You (CAN) CLAIM to be, but I am nothing in the sight of giants of our 'Ulema from the past. And for your information and for everyone else to know, All the great Mufassirs and Muhaddiths I just mentioned are not "URDU SPEAKING," rather they were the the greatest Arab Muslim scholars ever known. ..
The criterion for mercy from Allah (swt) is to belive in tawheed and in the last prophet.
Believing in one part (tawhid) is not enough as saeed murtaza would like.
It s true that we cannot penetrate into someone's hearts and see their beliefs. But then what would be the purpose of the Quran (surah tawbah -9:113) which states clearly that asking for an unbelievers forgivess is not permitted. The pope (as far as we know) advocated the sin of trinity and died with it.
People like Akbar Khan (Can) will always use the hadith that the prophet questioned the sahaba who killed a man even when he said the shahada. Remember this Akbar - the man said shahada. The pope didn't.
Besides, Akbar, you know what I think of you - remeber what I said earlier. Learn Arabic instead of relying upon Urdu translations for quoting or understanding Islam.
There is as much precedence (in sunnah) for asking forgiveness for an unbeliver (like pope) as there is for a woman to give khutbah and lead jumuah.
Also, since you go there with reference to Spain, North Africa etc. I will reply that Islam has a much better record of tolerance and acceptance of other faiths than Christianity (Catholic or otherwise). There is no compulsion in Islam. There were no Inquisitions in these lands, non-Muslims simply paid a poll tax. I think the real phenomenon is that these lands that were traditionally Christian (Egypt, Syria, Anatolia) strongholds became Muslim in the span of a few generations. There is a reason for that, I think. Duvel, my friend, I suggest you study Islam. You may like what you find. But in either case, you are my brother in humanity, and I wish nothing but good for the Christians and Jews, who are, as the Prophet (pbuh) says, dhimmi...
As you are a recent convert, let me tell you very clearly that you cannot pray for a kaafir.
A man asked the prophet (pbuh) if he could pray for his mother who died as a kaafir. The prophet said no. He asked if he could visit her grave - he said yes (but this only applied to relatives).
Tell me where did the prophet say he could pray for his mother.
People like Akbar Khan (Can) who ask for Allahs forgiveness for pope are severly misled. Akbar, mind you will not hesitate to condemn Arabs (who at least beleive in tawheed) but will instead for forgiveness for a man who advocated the sin of trinity.
I hope it is clear to you.
(And don't give me this excuse we live in modern times and need to do ijtihad. Ijtihad need not be done in matters which are clear)
Peace and let God be with you, my Christian brother!
The Pope did not apologize for the Crusades.
He apologized for the the atrocities committed against Jews during the Crusades. Neither the next pope not the Vatican should apologize either, unless Muslim leaders apologize for the military conquests and occupation of Syria, Egypt, Turkey, North Africa and Spain (all formerly Christian lands). Oh, and if Muslims cease the widespread persecution of Christians going on now in Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, etc. etc. Respect for the People of the Book? It doesn't look that way at all.
Peace be On Pope for Eternity.
Allah, the Most High, says in his holy book
"It is not for the Prophet nor for those believe that they should seek forgiveness for the idolaters, even though they may be their kinsmen, after it has become clear to them that are the people of Hell-Fire."-At- Tawbah 9:113
Allah has made it evident in the Qur'an that the Jews and the Christians will reside in the hellfire forever due to the shirk that they committ.
That being stated how can we sit here as Muslims and praise and ask forgiveness for a mushrik (polytheist), idol-worshipping Kaafir.
This is why we need tazkiyah (purification) and tarbiyah (education) because so many foreign deviant beliefs have mixed with this beautiful religion and is the reason why so much humiliation
has come down on the Muslim from Allah, The Mighty and the Majestic.
Islam isn't a religion of desires, unless you're a Sufi or a Shiite or some other deviant who claims they're upon the Sunnah, but that's another issue. We should practice Islam the those who came before us practiced it and then InshaAllah we will be victorious.
With the fitnah (trial) of Amina Wadud and her da'wah to the hellfire, refraining from praising and seeking for a Kaafir (PoPe) is the least we can do.
The Pope has not only kissed the Qur'an when a delegation from Iraq and Syria went to Rome and presented him with the Qur'an, but when the Pope visited the Umayyad Masjid in Dimisqh, he went and paid his respects to Hadhrat Nabi Yahya (John the Baptist) Alaiyhis-Salaam, at his grave.
Allah Knows Best.
For my own part, I remember when a Catholic priest I knew found out I took shahada; he didn't condemn it, but instead said that Catholicism and Islam were, in fact, very similar. I agree with him, and for this very reason I believe that it is imperative that we maintain an open and inclusive dialogue with the Roman Catholics. I believe that before the Last Day, many of them will, in fact join us, especially when they see just how similar we are and understand our differences (given an option, more than you might think would revert, in my opinion)for what they are.
My brothers and sisters, let us pray for the Pope, though not a Muslim, he was a dhimmi, a person of the book and a very good one indeed. Let us pray that, Inshallah, the new Pope will carry on in his predecessor's footsteps, let us pray, Inshallah, that Allah Subhana Wa Ta Ala will lift the veil from the eyes of the Catholics and they will join us in worship of the one true God.
Just look around...How many of your offsprings try to stay abstinence(trying to hard to avoid losing virginity)? (most out there going drinking and having sex at age 15)
...How many dress like Mother Mary? (none, most dress up like _____)
...How many in the U.S. against the WAR and oppression? (10% against it, 90% supported)
So, it is kind of stupid that people crying and _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ ing?
the Pop 's death is indeed a great lost to every one be he a christian or not and it will thjreat theb world peace 5therefore i hope any one that will; replace him should fallow his lagacies
with those of Catholics', there is still a mutual
respect (or at least there should be) for all
"people of the book". All due respect and
admiration for a man who tried his best to do as
he saw fit do change the world the best he could,
and may the mercy and graciousness of Allah