Real Debate About the Status of Women
The Quran and the Prophet's example show that women and men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, and that woman is not inferior to man. For certain situations when the Shari'ah restricts or gives preference to men or women, it does not mean discrimination. This should be understood within the frame of the general objectives of the Shari'ah, which are set by a Devine Law that is not subject to political correctness. These directives are given by the Almighty God who knows our disposition better then ourselves and has given us guidelines to order the lives of men and women in a way that best suits our natures.
On the issue of women-led Friday prayer, men and women alike, have challenged the validity of the action and the sanctity of the motives of the organizers.
The overwhelming majority of Muslim women who questioned the rationale behind such an action and refused to be part of gender politics imposed by some is commendable. They demanded references from the Quran and the sayings of the Prophet and they followed the actions of the mothers of the believers (wives of the Prophet) who refused to lead the Friday prayers to mixed gatherings even when they were in a position to impose their leadership in prayers over the Ummah.
During the battle of Jamal (Camel), mother of the believers Ayesha bint Abu Bakr was in charge of the army she had raised to seek justice in the murder of the third Caliph Osman bin Affan, the son-in-law of the Prophet. She was the commander in chief. However, when it was time for the Friday prayer, she herself nominated a man to lead the prayer. Would the supporters of mixed gender women-led prayers call this action hypocritical or intellectually inferior?
Ironically, those who advocate women-led Friday prayers failed to give any sound argument on the basis of the Quran and Sunnah in support of their action. Some of them presented an event narrated in the Sunan Abu Dawood in support of the claim that the Prophet allowed Umm Waraqa to lead the prayer for her family members.
It is said that the Prophet used to visit Umm Waraqa in her own home; he appointed a mu'adhin (one who calls the adhan for Prayer) for her, and ordered her to lead the members of her household (in Prayer)." Umm Waraqah-as stated in the sources-was an esteemed woman of Al-Ansar who had memorized the Quran. 'Abdul-Rahman Ibn Khalid, the narrator of the Hadith, further states: "I happened to see her mu'adhin, who was a person advanced in age."
Based on the above evidence, some scholars have concluded that a woman is allowed to lead her own family members in Prayer especially in the cases where she is qualified over others who may not be so well versed in the rules of Prayer and knowledge of the Quran.
Paradoxically, people who have made women-led Friday prayers as a center piece for women's rights also refuse to accept those parts of the Quran and sayings of the prophet on issues for which they have developed their own thinking. For instance, many of the supporters of women-led prayers, also promote the right to validate same sex marriages.
What they have proven through this approach is that they have double standards in their selection of the Quran and the sayings of the Prophet. They choose whatever suits their desires and they twist the meaning of the verses when it does not fit into their intellectual paradigm. Obviously, such people cannot be taken seriously in their efforts to reinterpret religion for the betterment of the people, including women.
By applying double standards in their approach to study the Quran and Sunnah, they have shown critical inconsistencies in their arguments. Anyone or group who assumes superior intellect and is driven by superficial standards of gender equality cannot be trusted on a highly sensitive issue such as the status of women.
Le us look at the hadith that is often quoted by the defenders of women-led Friday prayer in more detail. It reads:
Umm Waraqa said, "I said: "O Messenger of Allah! Permit for me to participate in the battle with you. I'll nurse your sick. Perhaps Allah will grant me martyrdom." He said: "Remain in your house. For verily Allah will grant you martyrdom." And she asked his permission to take a muadhdhin in her home. And he allowed her." (Sunan Abu Dawood)
In another version Abu Dawood reports: "The Messenger of Allah used to visit her in her house. And he assigned to her a muadhdhin who would make the summons to prayer (adhan) for her. And he asked her to lead the inhabitants of her home."
The hadith was reported by Baihaqi, Hakim and Daraqutni. Hakim said, "Muslim advanced Al-Walid ibn Jami' (one of the narrators) as being authoritative. But this is a hadith with a single chain of narration (sunnah ghariba). I don't know of any hadith with a connected chain to the Prophet (musnad) in this chapter other than this one." Imam Dhahabi concurred with his findings. According to another Islamic scholar Al-Mundhiri, "Al-Walid ibn Jami' is the subject of dispute (fihi maqal). However, Muslim has reported through him." Ibn Al-Qattan said, "Al-Walid's state isn't known." Ibn Hibban mentioned him in (his book) Al-Thiqat (Trustworthy Narrators). But Ibn Hajar said, "In his chain is 'Abdur-Rahman ibn Khallad (a second questionable narrator). And his status is unknown (fihi jahala)."
The opinions of scholars on the trustworthiness of this hadith cannot be dismissed. Even if the hadith is accepted as it is, there are several other facts that need to be taken into consideration. At the time, when this permission was being given to Umm Waraqa, there were two very learned and prominent companions of the prophet present in Medina, Salman al Farsi and Osman bin Affan. Salman did not go to the battle as his slave master denied him permission to leave and Osman bin Affan was tending his wife who was suffering from some major ailment. None of these two companions were asked to pray behind her. In fact, they led their own prayers in the mosque of the Prophet. Umm Waraqa's house was said to be a few miles from the mosque of the Prophet. In the absence from Medina of a majority of Muslims including men and women, who were given the permission to join the battle, the Prophet must have chosen the most learned scholar of the Quran in her household with the leadership role in prayers. In fact, it was a very bold statement in a male chauvinist society, a statement that re-emphasized the point that women are as equal in their spirituality as men.
The fact that Umm Waraqa led the prayers for her household until the time of Umar, the second caliph, speaks of the respect Muslims accorded to the action and sayings of the Prophet. Interestingly, her household members attended Friday prayers led by the Prophet or Abu Bakr or Umar in the main mosque of Medina as their is no account to substantiate that Umm Waraqa led the Friday prayers to a mixed congregation of her own household members. We also do not see reference to any debate among the women of Medina declaring their intent to lead the Friday prayers or regular prayers in the mosque of the Prophet or any other mosque during the time of the Prophet or his successors. They understood the circumstances that led to the decision of the Prophet.
Still, if there are people who have a different understanding of the Quranic message or the sayings of the Prophet, they need to bring out their argument in a rational way and try to build a consensus of Muslim scholars over the nature and scope of the debate. They cannot impose their opinions upon others. Nor can they intimidate Muslims for holding a different viewpoint.
Those who claim to be Muslims and follow the monotheistic concept of God and believe in His message are not entitled to edit Him for their convenience. Among the defenders of women-led prayers are those who believe that this is the single most important issue that the Muslim world faces today. This argument is also rejected by the Muslim masses that believe that there are several other issues that deserve other priorities. The Friday led prayer by Dr. Wudud will not solve any of the problems pertaining to the status of women in the world. The supporters of this initiative are suggesting that people who are on their side are the only ones who understand how to prioritize Muslim issues. Seemingly, these people have little regard to the voices of the Muslim masses.
The divine decreed upon the followers of His message that they would not discriminate among people on the basis of their gender, race or status. He challenged human beings to rise above their interests to create an egalitarian society where women and men will be respected for what they are. The divine commanded them to complement each other rather than fight each other for the roles given to them. The divine recommended them to construct their relations on the basis of respect, love and compassion.
Some think that by standing in the front row of a mosque during the prayer, the status of women will improve. Perhaps, we all can find more spirituality standing in front of those houses where women are abused. Perhaps we can all attain better spirituality by providing shelter to homeless men and women. Perhaps we can all find a better meaning in our religion by feeding those who go without food for days.
According to our belief as Muslims, the message of God as given to us in the Quran and shown to us by Prophet Muhammad will remain unaltered with us until the end of time. History has shown that the majority of the Muslim community has always rejected those who have explicitly shown double standards in their approach to preach the Quran and Sunnah.
Instead of creating fictional gender equality let us prepare ourselves, for the real work. Let us organize ourselves, men and women of conscience to ensure that no woman (men as well) is left uneducated, no woman (men as well) suffer from the pain of dependency, no woman (men as well) ever has to lead an unhealthy life in a ghetto and that no woman (men as well) ever denied the rights that God has given to us all. How do we do it? It is a challenge to our generation.
The world of Islam, and indeed the entire world awaits the emergence of a selfless group of workers dedicated to real change.
Many of our leaders and religious establishments have failed us. They have used the masses to promote their egos. They have deceived the Muslims in to serving their own narrow agendas and in many cases have distorted the divine message to make us more dependent on them. But our Creator and His messenger with his words of wisdom are there to guide us and lead us to the right path. Let us join hands men and women together for a better world.
Dr. Aslam Abdullah is editor of the Muslim Observer, director of the Islamic Society of Nevada and the director of the Muslim Electorates' Council of America. He can be reached at [email protected]
Join the discussion forum on this issue.
No, We Don-t Have More Important Issues: In Support of Women-Led Prayer by Sarah Eltantawi
Topics: Friday (Jumuah), Prayers (Salah), Women
She should consider going back to learning the basic tenet of Islamic teaching rather than leading other Muslim to the wrong concept of Islam.
I thought that sentence sounded familiar! Thomas Jefferson, one of our founding fathers, said: "We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." And that is included in our Constitution. What a remarkable coincidence that the author uses a similar phrase.
gathering? Seek knowledge it enables us to identify the wrong from right.
While I definately disagree with Dr Wadud, I personally am tired of the cramp space, the dark basement and the dangerous balcony with glass wall alotted to sisters in the different massjid that I have been. Obviously the men who was incharge of planning/building these masajid never know what it feels like carrying a 15lbs car sit with a baby in it plus a diaper bag plus a toddler in tow going up 15 plus steps to get to HER salah area. On top of that having to go back downstairs when the toddler need to use the restroom. Mind you that finding this stair was your first job when you first get in the masjid. This is a million dollar masjid!. How in the world when the number of women plus children that can easily triple or even quadruple the number of men when the men was given triple or quadruple the space amount.
Over and over again you heard the men complain that the women let the kids running loose around the masjid and that is why we cannot hear the lecture thus can't pay attention thus can't understand and learn anything from the masjid and that is why they should stay home. What happen to the father of these kids and what happen to space for kids to play in. I bet more that 90% of the masjid built in the entire world never have the women opinion consulted.
This is not just issues about how the masjid is built it is the issue of how our men treated our women. I was once in a conference and a man asked me and my friend (who have her face covered) to leave the bazaar area because it is not the sisters time! Why in the world Allah asked us to be fully covered, to hide more from men!
Firstly I must say that I dont agree with what this sister has done - we must try to follow the guidance of the Prophet (SAW) and Sahaba in these matters, not make them up because we are now so called 'modern'. However, it may be a sign of the frustration that Muslim women are feeling at the moment - the sisters seem to be constantly forgotten about, and dont seem to be included in anything. Its time to give sisters their due and give them the rights that Islam has given them, and not keep them 'down' with cultural baggage which is not Islam.
Keep the Peace, wa salaam
Let me explain, what I mean by that: This is a free country and here we can do whatever we want, period! Some of us women have decided to have women-led Friday congregational prayers with mixed gender for a change, because we want change - even if it is change with its own shake, as long as women are doing it.
Certainly, American Islam represents a very significant alternative to the Islam of the 1400 years ago. Some of us have an idea about re-inventing the Shariah to make it more feminine to suit the needs of today's modern American Muslim women. The present Shariah is thoroughly from old men - you can't expect them to know about today's modern American Muslim women, so obviously we have a big problem with that.
Similarly, as the Quran is one of the sources of Islamic laws, we also want to reinterpret the Quran in order to develop more women-inclusive and feminine-leaning laws. All we want is really an Islam American Style.
OK we are tired of the male gender having the mike to themselves. Yes, wise guy you heard it right ... we want the mike! And so what if this is really all about the mike. Do you a problem with that?
I think that the big issue here is the failure of men to protect the rights of women given by Islam. They have allowed culture and ego to degrade the position of women. This degregation in some cases is virtual slavery with a healthy helping of victimization. Women have become disatisfied not with what Islam gives them but with what the culturely driven men have taken. I see this disatisfaction feeding this movement. While I believe it is not permissable for a woman to lead the prayer, I see this as a chickens coming home to roost for the men. Someone with a nice home would not want to change places with a homeless person right? The reason is because he prefers and is satisfied with what he has. He prefers his home to homelessness. Islam gave women a beautiful gift. Practiced correctly she loves her position and doesnt want that of the man. The reality is that this western "pro woman" county has not been able to offer women the dignity and stature that muslim women of the past have had. What is worse than that is that the muslims have done no better even with a divine guide book that gives power and dignity to both genders. The problem is her rights have been taken and now she wants to take control. To the women and men who agree with this prayer leading I would bring secular reasoning in. Islam put the man in charge for a reason. He gave him certain responsibilities for a reason. All one has to do is look around at the American crisis of "baby daddies". When men don't have to take responsibility they don't. Islam has set up ways to be successful in this life and the next. If we all follow Islam and give each other the rights and dignity Allah swt gave each of us. I believe we wont be bothered with issues that fall outside of the bounds of Islam.
and the list is long. I could be here all day making posts. Like I said, this might not have been the most intelligent move but, it could serve to stirr the need to get the man's grip off of Allah's (SWT) comands and start practicing the true Islam where womans have real rights.
It has never been done in ISLAM but all we need is to patient and prepred our self fore the hearafter and may ALLIMIGHTY ALLAH he who is AL GHAFI for give us all our sin . May he save us from all those kafirun and those who stand agints ISLAM .
I totally disagree with this article. Whether we like it or not Islam is facing many challenges this days and this kind of issue is one of them. Any changes doesn't occur over night, something always leads up to these changes. I think this kind of issue will make people wake up and really inquire into the real meaning of Islam and not just the theory.
"many of the supporters of women-led prayers, also promote the right to validate same sex marriages" that is such a cheap shot.
We must remember that Allah (swt) has given warnings to the believers that certain segments among those who profess 'religion' will never accept us, until we follow their way of life.
The leaders of the women-led Friday prayers are following their whims and desires and not the guidance given to us by Allah through His noble Prophet Muhammad (saw). The issue should be crystal clear and should not cause confusion or un-Islamic behavior among the believers toward those who are misguided. We should make dua for them, that perhaps they will return to the straight path.
I say those who do not recognize the sunnah are
not muslims. How can you believe in the Quran
and not believe in the sunnah? The Sunnah was
transmitted by the same people who transmitted
the Quran. So, how can you believe in one and
reject the other, and still claim to be Muslim?
The Companions of the Prophet SAAW were the
first and foremost followers of the Sunnah. If
Sunnah is not to be followed by the Muslims,
then all of the Companions of the Prophet SAAW
And if you must rely on the Quran only, then
follow what the Quran says, "Whatever the
Prophet commands you, take it, and whatever he
forbids you, abstain from it". If you are really
a follower of the Quran, then follow this verse.
Those who reject the Sunnah of the Prophet SAAW
are non-Muslims not only by the consensu of the
Muslims, but also according to the Quran, which
they claim to follow!
What's next? Same sex marriage? You have been
deceived by the Shaytan and the culture that
surrounds you. Wake up and unite with the ummah,
do not create disunity when the Muslim ummah
needs unity the most. This is another fitnah
that Shaytan has created with the help of other
Shayateen that claim to be "modernizing" Islam.
In 1400 years no Muslim woman, out of the
greatest female scholars, no one "saw the light"
except this new Dr Wadud? What is her
qualification? What is her proof of her claims?
Does she think that she is better than the
mother of the believers, Ayesha RAA? Ayesha RA,
during the battle of camel, appointed a Muslim
man to lead the prayer. Had this been permitted
for women, I bet my life that she would have
taken this chance. Ayesha RA was one of the
greatest scholars of early Islam as she RA
learned from the Master SAAW himself. Would she
have missed this opportunity to receive this
If she knows too much about Islam, I would like to visit her home/office and learn about Islam, but not going stand behind her for Friday prayer.
During my recent visits to Western world or so called "CIVILIZED" world, the western non-Muslim and westernized Muslim women disgusted me...Normally, at home in Yathrib, I pray 3 times day (Which is bad, but I am telling truth), but for some reasons while in the "civilized world", I started to pray 5 times a day...it made me realize the values and importance of Islam, which was shockingly non-existent even in Muslim women. Forget about non-Mulimss; they can do whatever they like...
I am sure many of have the same feelings...you importing/stealing both Islamic values and gasoline from my Islamic land but living in the so called modernized and "CIVILIZED WORLD"...I wonder why?
Besides, the hadith of Abu Dawud does not say that there were men in the house of Umm Waraqa, in which she led the salaat. Further to that, ibn Hajar said that one of it's chain of narrators is questionable because he doesn't know who he is. Secondly, Al-Mundhiri said that a different narrator in the chain of this hadith, is disputable as well.
In conclusion, the only schools of fiqh amongst Ahl' As-Sunnah today, are the schools of Hanafi, Shafi'e, Maliki, and Hanbali.
If someone is going to try and follow a school of fiqh outside of this, well then take the advice of what Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal, one of the leaders of the school of fiqh said:
Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal's (leader of Hanbali school) student Muhammad ibn 'Ubaydullah ibn al-Munadi said:
I heard a man ask him [Imam Ahmad]: "When a man has memorized 100,000 hadiths, is he a scholar of Sacred Law, a faqih?" And he said, "No." The man asked, "200,000 then?" And he said, "No." The man asked, "Then 300,000?" And he said, "No." The man asked, "400,000?" And Ahmad gestured with his hand to signify "about that many" (Ibn al-Qayyim: I'lam al-muwaqqi'in, 4.205).
Now how many of us TODAY in this day and age, have memorized 400,000 hadiths or somewhere around there? So how can we interpret matters of fiqh withour relying upon what the four existing scholars have said first?
i agree with you. we should be more concered about our duties and role of a women by being a good mother,wife ,daughter,freind and companoin.love our prophet and follow his sunnah.be a good example for our futher generations. may allah show us all the straight path and bless us all with his mercy. amen.
(Not all Muslims recognize the Sunnah) which is the backbone supporting the claim in this article. However, the Koran supports all Muslims and would support Sisters if brothers would allow it.
We could debate the issue of who, what, or how the dinosaurs were eliminated. One thing stands crystal clear- There Gone- They were unable to adapt to the environmental conditions, unable to withstand the onslaught of evolutionary development.
Islam will not follow that same faith. Will it not become a religion defined by squabbles mauling over the finer points of nothingness?
As for my sister: In the Christian world the fall of man is wrongly placed on the shoulders of Eve alone. But in fact the story clearly shows that the fall of man was the fault of both Adam and Eve. They both disobeyed the commandment together (See also Al Araf 7:19). It was Satan not Eve who made evil recommendations. I used the Christian metaphor here because Christianity leads the world of today and whether we like it or not Islam follows. And until we begin to value the worth of our sisters we will continue to lag behind- the glory years of Islam notwithstanding.
Enter the content of Africa: The most devalued commodity there is female worth. What is it about man that makes it hard for him to see the value of his sister's labor? - Whether its in work providing for material substance or leading Friday prayer, providing spiritual substance. On the other hand everything done by men is factored in, calculated, logged down, and payment of some sort is expected.
Ego and selfish pride are the two emotions held by doctors, scholars, leaders, which keep us from valuing our sister and will ultimately keep Islam form reaching the apex it almost achieved in the past. So we must question our understanding of (rabb ilil-alamin). This is the creator who nourishes his creation throughout the stages of development until it reaches perfection. (Continued in alternat
same problems in some Christian Churches (our problems are
actually much worse). However, I always find it helpful to
remember that part of living in a free society it realizing that
people are not always going to do the right thing but they must
be allowed to make such mistakes.
Because the men in our UMMAH have become weak(and even more so since "9-11")our women have been tricked into thinking that "western" ways should be incorporated into ISLAM.
The glorious SHARIAH and "western democracy"(demon-crazy)are not compatible and never will be compatible.
The #1 cause of death among pregnant women in the"land of the free home of the brave" is is satanic MURDER.
Mr.Charlie's system of pagan western values can not stop the 12 million new cases of filthy- stinking sexual diseases(that effect women) yearly in his "North American Wilderness".
Domestic violence has increased 117% in the last 20 years.
50 to 70 thousand women are "smuggled" to the u.s. for reasons of sexual freakism and "hard labor".
Little white girls make up the biggest % of KIDNAPPED children, there faces are always on the back of milk cartons.
There are more Blackwomen in amerikkka dying of A.I.D.S. than Whitemen
The SATANIC and twisted exploited mindset of "CAPITALISM"/Marketing use women as sexual objects to "PIMP" and make money from.
If I had the money I would challenge any "western scholar"(religious or secular) to an international debate on the status of women and who has been better of in the history books.
Using the QUR'AN and SUNNAH not only would I win hands down but it would bring millions to the DEEN!!!!!
Quit being "scaredy cats" take off those western suits,grow your beards back,put your TURBAN back on AND BE PROUD TO BE WITH THE UMMAH OF MUHAMMED AND RETURN TO YOUR RIGHTFUL POSITION AS KALIFA!!!
Beyond this point, is the issue that created the enthusiasm for this Jummah in the first place- namely, the second class status of women in contemporary Muslim society, and the need to eradicate the chauvinistic mentality that so many Muslims today suffer. As I see it, the Jummah prayers being led by Dr. Wadud is a precedent born out of the necessity to assert the equal rights of women in a world where the majority of Muslim nations subjugate their women. The comment Dr. Abdullah made suggesting the effort is better spent on poverty alleviation and education, and other such movements instead of 'false gender equality', I believe are also wrong. The economic and social sufferings that women face is a product of an ingrained social culture in which women are treated as second class beings who are limited to the degree to which they can elevate themselves. The congregation being held in New York for once will demonstrate that women can be, at times, the leaders of the community as long as they are adequately qualified to do so. Nobody is saying that this Jummah is the ONLY act that needs to be done to solve the problems we face, but it is a huge step in the right direction.
I full agree with Dr. Aslam Abdullah's rationale supported by Quran & Sunnah.
Those who are creating these mischiefs are justing sowing seeds of hate & confusion among Muslims. Do they not read Quran & what the ALL MIGHHT GOD did to Prophet Lot's (PBUH) nation.
How can we even listen to those who approve "same sex marriages"?
Quran is not modern day software package to cut & paste where we feel it fits but a divine message for all the people & for all the times.
I advise Dr. women to be wadud ..read deep Q:Noor,60 for along strategy..thank you
A-"Remain in your house"
B- Make a new women TEMP house-O channel/hezb
C- Fight with Bush the Muamenoon.
abidah and every bidah is in the Hell fire.
Aesha May Allah be pleased with her had a young
male servant lead her in prayer and she was the most
Knoledgeable and righteous sister ever and she didn't
want to lead the prayer. I would never go to a Masjid
that let a sister lead the prayer this following the way of
the nonmuslims, womens live, crap.
The issue of women leading prayers is threading a fine line (narrower than the breadth of a single strand of hair) between right and wrong. I cannot find supporting evidence to support this action by Dr. Wudud. If someone can prove otherwise, I will stand corrected. But even the supporting evidence by the author does not support Dr. Wudud's course of action.
This is going to create more controversy within Islam that is not needed at this point of time. We have far more challenging issues today that needs to be addressed.
While being "new thing" inheriting in itself, this woman-led Friday prayer is strange. First of all, it's totally new for me to hear this. (Of course there is some certain situation where a woman can lead prayers such as in group of women travelling, or locally at home among women). But in this case, it deals with PUBLIC! Secondly, to opt for woman-led prayer action due to showing woman position in Islam -- or rather, to prove??? -- is obviously "total-self-driven" and "total-self-concluded" motives. Do we eat flesh of snake because there is no hadith or Aayat that prohibit it? Finally, and this I think is most important, is that how many human beings have betrayed their GOD Almighty by doing things according to their own desires, without HIM Speak first. Human thoughts are vulnerable to fallacy. So, be careful. Wassalam.
I do wish to express one minor concern. Would striving to ensure that women were educated as well as men not seem likely to increase the number of women who were the most knowledgeable members of their individual households? My point would be that dialogue and modesty might not seem to be much of an issue among members of the same household. And thus, apart from cultural considerations, knowledge might appear to be the deciding factor in determining who leads household prayers.
Admittedly, I am guessing that denying entire categories of believers something the Lord of the Worlds permits them, essentially for the sake of merely continuing to do what we found our fathers doing, might at some point seem to have been a poor exchange. Also, when we find ourselves revising our justifications, perhaps it might be a good idea to take a closer look at our motives.
Finally, it seems to me that our Lord has cursed other communities with what one or more scholars of our own community had once considered to be signs of Allah's favor. If so then which of the favors of our Lord should we deny (and why)?
Again, I am grateful for your attention, doctor. You seem to have been more than fair.
Fi aman Allah.
when i see things like this going on by people who
say that they are muslim it shows that they might
not really be muslim.the jinns are on the move but Allah deen will win in the end