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America and Colonial Imperialism

Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Politics
Forum Name: World Politics
Forum Description: World Politics
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4693
Printed Date: 02 May 2024 at 2:21pm
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Topic: America and Colonial Imperialism
Posted By: Bismarck
Subject: America and Colonial Imperialism
Date Posted: 03 May 2006 at 2:21pm
I have a quick question.

I assume that everybody would acknowledge that the United States of
America was formed by law in 1787, with the Treaty of Paris, after a War
of Independence
(1775-83) through which the former Colonies
of England broke free of England's Imperialism.

(If anyone disagrees with this, please state your counter-argument.)

Therefore, I assume that everybody will grant me that the United States of
America was formed as an anti-Colonial, anti-Imperialist nation.


Now, just to be blunt, I am told by "my" Main-Stream-Media that
today many, if not most, Muslims believe that America is a Colonial
Imperialist.


Thus, I am given to understand, rightly or wrongly, that many, if not
most, Muslims believe that:

  • America was an anti-Colonial, anti-Imperialist as of 1787

  • America is a Colonial Imperialist as of 2006




Therefore, I would very much like to know when and why America
hypocritically changed over from an anti-Colonial Imperialist to a Colonial
Imperialist just like the British Empire from which it broke away 200 years
ago.

What is the argument? What is the rationalle? In a word, what is the
"Who/what/when/where/why/how" of America's transformation from
anti-Colonial Imperialist to Colonial Imperialist.

Were it up to me, any responses would just be blunt, direct, and to the
point. I have never once in my whole life enjoyed, or found useful,
"diplomatic" language. The Truth is what it is, and it shouldn't have to
hide. If America is a Colonial Imperialist, what are the facts and
logic that lead you to conclude that?



Replies:
Posted By: mariyah
Date Posted: 20 May 2006 at 5:24pm
What is the point of this? Are you testing the waters?

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"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.


Posted By: Megatron
Date Posted: 21 May 2006 at 12:51am
Well lets look at history.  If you consider it, the United States has always been allied with Colonialism.  "Americans" came as British colonists to the United States and performed a holocaust by slaughtering close to 150 million native americans, throughout its establishment.

The U.S. can only be considered anti-imperialist and anti-colonialist when they wanted to establish independence from the British Empire. 

The resumption of their colonialsist ways occured during the Phillipine-American war in 1899.  The Americans shot unarmed civilians, burned entire villages to the ground and placed them in concentration camps where an estimated 200 000-1000 000 000 Filipinos died.  President McKinley expressed a desire to "christianize" the Phillipines.  In fact Mark Twain who was a member of the "American Anti-Imperialism League" protested the war under that organization. 

How is that logic?


Posted By: Bismarck
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 11:02pm
America did not slaughter 150 million Natives.

Catholic Conquistadors in LATIN AMERICA (see?)...

did.


Posted By: Bismarck
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 11:05pm
Moreover, one reason that many Native Americans DID perish...

is because...

when the Puritans stepped off the MayFlower...

they WERE SICKLY AND DISEASED.

Remember how MILLIONS of EUROPEANS died from the BLACK PLAGUE?

They still carried all those diseases with them when they fled to North
America.

They were escaping the HELL HOLE of Catholic Imperialist Police State
Europe.

Nobody seems to understand this simple fact -- life in MEDIEVAL EUROPE
was HELL!

HELL!

HELL!

Nobody seems to understand just exactly what the Puritans were trying to
ESCAPE FROM.

When they gave the small pox, black plague, etc etc etc to the Native
Americans, just by BREATHING on them...

it was "WELCOME TO THE CLUB -- MAN IT SUCKS, HUH!"

Europeans earned their "immunity" to Plague, Small Pox etc THE REAL
HARD WAY.

Nobody seems to recall this fact.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 24 May 2006 at 2:13pm
Bismarck: Add ne�o�co�lo�ni�al�ism    ( to your list just for the sake of definition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
A policy whereby a major power uses economic and political means to perpetuate or extend its influence over underdeveloped nations or areas: �Strong elements of neocolonialism persist in the economic relations of the rich and poor countries� (Scientific American).


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Knowledge01
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 8:28am

From the day white people set foot on the land called "America", it has been a imperial power.



Posted By: Muslima
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 8:42am

Bismarck,

I suggest you watch a movie called Z by a director called Costa-Gravas. I think it holds all your answers.

Muslima



Posted By: bargey
Date Posted: 10 July 2006 at 6:19am

if the US is a colonial power where are the countries they now own that before they didnt?

Careful what you wish, cause you just might get it!!!!!!



Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 10 July 2006 at 6:21am
Originally posted by bargey bargey wrote:

if the US is a colonial power where are the countries they now own that before they didnt?


Careful what you wish, cause you just might get it!!!!!!



Their wish is being fulfilled right now . (if you know what I mean)


Posted By: bargey
Date Posted: 10 July 2006 at 6:25am
i am paying more for petrol than ever, what has invading iraq given me?


Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 10 July 2006 at 6:28am
you guys call gasoline "pertol" in Australia?


Posted By: bargey
Date Posted: 10 July 2006 at 6:34am
petrol, you idiot. petrolium gasoline. The same kind we mix with soap to make the napalm we dropped on the pitiful republican guard.


Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 10 July 2006 at 6:50am
Originally posted by bargey bargey wrote:

petrol, you idiot. petrolium gasoline. The same kind we mix with soap to make the napalm we dropped on the pitiful republican guard.

sorry havnet left north pole for long time.


Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 10 July 2006 at 7:09am
Originally posted by ak_m_f ak_m_f wrote:

you guys call gasoline "pertol" in Australia?


gasoline is called petrol in pakistan and india also bro.


Posted By: Escobar
Date Posted: 12 July 2006 at 9:23pm

Of course America is imperialist...

it was built on imperialism...

 

DAMN THIS SITE IS SO DEAD!!!!



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Posted By: usama
Date Posted: 22 July 2006 at 5:13am

Greetings.

There are different forms of imperialism.  One should first establish a meaning for 'empire' and 'imperialism'. 'Empire' is derived from the latin word imperium: mastery to rule, supreme power, sphere of control or monopoly;  and the middle english empery: absolute dominion, sovereignty.  'Empire' is defined as a group of nations or peoples ruled over by an emperor, or other powerful sovereign or government, usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom, as in the British empire... 'Imperialism' is defined as "the policy to extend the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies or dependencies. 2. Advocacy of imperial interests."  Those are linguistic definitions.

The political, or conceptual definitions could be found in Machiavelli's The Prince wherein it is stated how a state can gain 'authority' over other states or people by either direct rule by force and installing someone from the state, or by making such a people subordinate but bringing to power indigenous rulers that will serve the empire but rule by their own laws. The former connotes colonialism, the latter connotes establishing people into their own 'nations' and bringing out of them rulers that will serve the empire.

The latter is the American way: forming people into 'nations' and bringing out of them rulers that will serve America. The Monroe Doctrine back in 1811 essentially said America will have free reign of the western hemisphere.  I recall reading that in as early as 1790, Salvador requested to join the American republic, but of course was turned down by the Congress. Ever since the Monroe doctrine, America has acted in Latin America to form 'nations' to serve America's empire. Most notably, America supported Panamanian independence from Colombia, itself a powerful state in South America at the time. Colombia eventually was carved up several more times. But Panamanian independence was insured by American military force as long as Panama enabled America to carve the Panama canal and establish a military force their for 90 years. Colombia originally owned and controlled the region of Panama. But America determined it to be the best location to form a canal. Since the French failed to do so for the Colombians, America sparked its the Panamian revolt. In retrospect, I wonder if France and America made a deal so France would intentionally fail to make the canal in turn, America would given something to France. I wonder.

In any case, America's empire is global. Today, it definitely includes Iraq. But also Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan.  It doesn't have to be about military forces on the ground, though they definitely reflect imperial interests.  It largely has to do with a sphere of action so that a foreign government advances  American interests superceding her own people's interests and a foreign government not acting outside that sphere.    

 



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Let there arise from amongst you a group inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and they are the successful ones. Al Imran:104


Posted By: usama
Date Posted: 22 July 2006 at 5:26am

Some nations today have literally no physical capability of existing outside of the American empire given their tiny geography. The list of these obvious states dependent on the American empire: South Korea, Panama, Kuwait, Tiawan, Israel. There are others, but these best exemplify the concept.

 States which serve American empire but could theoretically exist outside of the empire were they to acquire independence: Egypt, Pakistan, Turkey, Colombia, perhaps Saudi Arabia, Nigeria.

States that it is doubtful they could exist outside of the American empire given their proximity to America or their vulnerable geographical composition: Mexico,  perhaps Saudi Arabia.

States which have independence but choose to capitulate to American primacy: India, China, Russia. 

In each area, there are more states, and there are several categories which bridge each other. For example, Canada, by proximity, could not withstand American power. Itse population is too small and its border too vast. However, Canada is awarded a certain degree of freedom by America in exchange for compliance with vital matters such as natural resources, commerce, joint security.    



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Let there arise from amongst you a group inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and they are the successful ones. Al Imran:104


Posted By: usama
Date Posted: 22 July 2006 at 5:36am

BTW, there is a difference between a state and an empire. A state annexes a region and includes as an equal to other regions. For Islamic history, there were Islamic states which annexed regions BUT included them as equal to other regions.

An empire has a 'motherland' around which all other regions are subservient. So a region will be 'annexed' only to serve the 'motherland'. The resources of the annexed region will go to serve the 'motherland'.  The annexed people may recieve some things, but nothing comparable to what they are forced to give.

Obviously, America could simply welcome the entire world to join its 'republic'.  Thus, everyone would have Congressmen, have a vote, etc.  But this concept is discouraged.  Woudl El Salvador TODAY like to join the American republic?



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Let there arise from amongst you a group inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and they are the successful ones. Al Imran:104


Posted By: lovetabuleh
Date Posted: 23 July 2006 at 9:26am

WoW usama,  that was VERY interesting.  i'm a total history-illiterate individual here and i think this gave me a step forward on becoming literate in it.

I never could remembered much about our history. probably because my history teacher's patriotic lessons in high school never gave me another side of the story and I new that that perspective was an exaggeration of 'our pride'. I didn't take them in. I just swallowed the teach's words but never digested it.  later on during ma life, i could't put my nose in an history book bcz it was too informational and also I didn't feel it gave me the right perspective to view it through.  i think i'm sceptical of our history books and i tend to avoid reading them when i can.

 your explanations now gave me a clear and concise picture of America and it's dealings.  I understand quite well and inshallah when i come across a discussion on an historical topic abt America among friends, i'll keep your words in mind and view it through that perspective.

jazakallahu khairan!

 

 




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