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Tareeqah warning

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ahmad179 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahmad179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2007 at 3:26am

essalaamu alaikum

dear brother

i didnt mean arrogance and i am sorry.

SubhanaAllah, only Allah knows ghaib.i wish we all find the true path, so i am asking you let this go on.

Brother you should know that tariqaah means same everywhere.it means the way to reach Allah, SubhanAllah.far from it.Every tariqaah is one of different ways, which claims same things.Because it is a term, (tariq:way) in misticism(tasawwuf).

This religion doesnt accept sheikhs.Wallahee i am afraid of being arrogant and i want to warn you as a duty as much as i can.

salam alaikum brothers.

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Abu Mujahid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Mujahid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2007 at 6:08am

Rami

 

This will be my last comment of this. I didn't plan this but you make habbah qubbah.

 

 

[QUOTE=rami] Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

>Moderators are not above critcs.

no one appointed you a critic, muslims investigate first then speak with conviction not throw out accusations hoping something sticks based upon limited comprehension of this deen<

 

Rami I know what bugs you. You are foaming with nothing. Just cool down bro. I'm not Muridi of moderators. And no one need to be appointed to say the truth.  

>your posts regarding this topic are pure jahaliyah based on the writings of extremists<

Jahiliyah....Masha Allah. Sheikh I don't how you give Islamic courses if your throw uncessary fatwas left and right. And my writing has nothing to do with extermist writings if there is something called extermist. 

 

 >you have clearly shown in other topics that you do not care who you take your knowledge from<

I care about who I took from knowledge.  I took knowledge from Alhul sunnah waljamah ijaza or without ijaza.

 

<<Same moderators has censored/threaten me so many times without reason except I differ with them the Islam they want to sell to west. I was insulted, belittled and abused but didn't make you that big fuss. By saying they will censor you if you talk about Tariqa is not slander. You need to focus more on far damaging threads than my simple comments>>>.

>If you cant understand simple forum guidelines then the fault is all yours. You also suffer from waswasa since your acusations are solely based on asumptions, evil thoughts and your delusions of some grander pro tariqah conspiracy. Did it occur to you that if the Admins agreed with your assesment of the moderators they would get rid of them but yet we see they are still here and you are slandering them<.

 

I don understand Islam while you do. I don't understand guidlines, while you wrote it or consulted it. Then I have waswas then you have clean bill of nafs....Masha Allah.  Total tajhil of muslim brother......That should be fiqh Yaa sheik

 

BTW, I totally agree with what brother Ahmed has said so far.Turkey need more people like him to clean up the mess Sufis and seculars has created out there.

 

 

 

Abu Mujahid

 

 

 



Edited by Abu Mujahid
Islam need true muslims
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peacemaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2007 at 10:21am

Assalamu Alaikum,

It is very important that we comply with guidelines:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589& ; ;PN=1

Peace

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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rami View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2007 at 1:15pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

And my writing has nothing to do with extermist writings if there is something called extermist.

You have revealed where you get your knowledge from, a salafi takfir site written by unknown authers, seems to me anyone can be a salafi shaykh all you have to do is make tafir of someone and write articles without signing your name to them and a multitude of salafi's will take up the call without actually checking if what you are saying is true.

I care about who I took from knowledge.  I took knowledge from Alhul sunnah waljamah ijaza or without ijaza.

no you didnt oh wise one, visit Islaam.com a real site representing the views of the salafi tradition and read what they say about purification of the heart [in there tazkiyah section] it is the lesser jihad!

you on the other hand follow a site with no authors, you may as well take your deen from wikipedia a site where anyone can edit any article at will and write what ever they like.

I don understand Islam while you do.

No you dont understand islam while the Ulama do, i dont speak from my self unlike you.

I don't understand guidlines, while you wrote it or consulted it.

Logic would now dictate that i have a better comprehension of them.

Then I have waswas then you have clean bill of nafs....Masha Allah.  Total tajhil of muslim brother......That should be fiqh Yaa sheik

when you accuse someone of something without any evidence and pure speculation the source with out a doubt is waswasa, how many times do we have to read your outbursts against the moderators is there any other source but shaytan.


Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2007 at 1:47pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

wa alaikum assalam

i didnt mean arrogance and i am sorry.

i didnt percieve arrogance in your post the opposite i thought you where sincere but presumptuous at the same time.

Brother you should know that tariqaah means same everywhere.

The word means the same thing everywhere but the path or teachings of each tariqah is not the same, saying they are would imply you are claiming you know ghaib as the word "everywhere" encompasses things you could not possibly know as a human.

SubhanAllah.far from it.Every tariqaah is one of different ways, which claims same things.Because it is a term, (tariq:way) in misticism(tasawwuf).

The word tassawuf does not mean mysticism this is a fact.  Tassawuf is the science of tazkiyah an nafs a term specifically mentioned in the Quran, a good example is surrah Abasah in which allah corrects the prophet [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] and asks about the blind man, how do you know he wouldnt have purified himslef [ie tahrah an nafs] and increased in good character traits [tazkiyah an nafs, meaning not only to rid himself of his bad qualities but increase in good character], achieving what allah has clearly stated here is what this Ummah for 1400 years have been trying to do and the very thing our Ulama have developed into a science. 

This is why tassawuf is known as the heart of islam and why Imam abu hanifah named his work Fiqh al Akbar or the greater or encompassing fiqh. If you have seen things you dont agree with in some sufi practice then ignore them and stick to what you understand and is clearly stated in the Quran and sunnah there is more than enough there to proove that purification of the heart is part of islam and a duty to all muslims.

if you want to attack some sufi practice by some tariqah in some obscure part of the world do so but dont make the mistake of saying tassawuf is not part of islam or that it is the practice of all tariqah's, all four madhhabs have reached a consensus on tassawuf.

Ask your self what religion would be if the very teachings/mechanisms by which a person improves himself morally are removed from that religion.

All you would have left is a set of laws that say 'dont do this, or this' without anyone knowing why they are performing these acts.

how many people know why we pray, why we fast, why we go to hajj, why we give zakaht....becouse others are doing them or we were just taught to do them?

If everything is according to intention and allah gives according to a persons intention, and if people dont know why they do these acts how can there intention be anything good they are just going through the motions of prayer and fasting and hajj without any sense of direction in there life or religion.



Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahmad179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2007 at 8:01am

asalaam alaikum
brother rami,
i understand you about morale point.but tasawuf is not the heart of islam.
i know that ulama of ahlisunnah had criticized tasawuf keenly for about three hundred years.Only with imam Gazali it could be included sunni islam in 11-12.centuries.And for muslims who lived after Muhammad (SAW) till that time, what can you say about morale?They had their goodness, but they were far from tasawuf.

is takwa not the respect of Allah and good intention?For Allah we do our prayers, to please Allah, we do.
i want to say that if one thing was not in the religion for about three hundred years and if it was included later on, it is certainly a bidah.Rasulullah (SAW) is very clear about this matter.and sahabis' good intentions were never like a teaching or philosophy but good intention, piety, and were never a technical way to something.

may Allah show us the right path.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2007 at 7:28pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

.but tasawuf is not the heart of islam.

If you fail to define the word tassawuf correctly how can you even comment on what it is or isnt?

i know that ulama of ahlisunnah had criticized tasawuf keenly for about three hundred years.

if you mean the last 300 years then that is not correct, salafi shaykhs have and as well as some uluma in turkey but that is becouse of turkeys secular stance in general. The only way to separate people from the religion is to morally bankrupt them of any spiritual aspect of there religion, this is a state sponsored policy and is evident by the fact women who wear the hijab can not go to university.

Only with imam Gazali it could be included sunni islam in 11-12.centuries.And for muslims who lived after Muhammad (SAW) till that time, what can you say about morale?They had their goodness, but they were far from tasawuf.

Again not correct that is like saying it hadnt existed before Imam al ghazali and he invented it. The fact is Imam al Ghazali had teachers in this science, his own brother is a major figure in tassawuf literature [a sufi long beffore he was] and the author of many sufi poems. Another basic fact is that at the heart of every tariqah is a silsillah of shaykhs [like a chain of naration] which goes back to the days of the tabiin sahabah and ultimately rasul allah  [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] this could not exist if tassawuf wasnt well grounded in islamic tradition.

for example this is the chain of the naqshbandi tariqah [shaykh hisham kabani] that br
Abu Mujahid keeps going on about.

http://www.naqshbandi.org/frmchain.htm


here is another

http://www.schoolofsufiteaching.org/qal/school/silsilah.html


hardly something invented in the 11 and 12th centuries.

is takwa not the respect of Allah and good intention?For Allah we do our prayers, to please Allah, we do.

You should read imam al ghazali's
"Inner Dimensions of Islamic Worship" and see if you are doing these acts correctly and what real intention is all about.

i want to say that if one thing was not in the religion for about three hundred years and if it was included later on, it is certainly a bidah.

if you are reffering to the first 300 years this is a basless comment, read what br Andalus wrote in the  following post about tassawuf,

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9549& ; ; ; ; ;PN=1


a small excerpt..

Ibn Khaldun states [about tassawuf],

This knowledge is a branch of the sciences of Sacred Law that originated within the Umma. From the first, the way of such people had also been considered the path of truth and guidance by the early Muslim community and its notables, of the Companions of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), those who were taught by them, and those who came after them.

It basically consists of dedication to worship, total dedication to Allah Most High, disregard for the finery and ornament of the world, abstinence from the pleasure, wealth, and prestige sought by most men, and retiring from others to worship alone. This was the general rule among the Companions of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and the early Muslims, but when involvement in this-worldly things became widespread from the second Islamic century onwards and people became absorbed in worldliness, those devoted to worship came to be called Sufiyya or �People of Tasawwuf� (al-Muqaddima, 467)


�Ibn al-Jawzi wrote a 100-page book on al-Hasan al- Basri's life and manners entitled Adab al-Shaykh al- Hasan ibn Abi al-Hasan al-Basri. In his chapter on al- Hasan in his compendium of the saints entitled Sifat al-Safwa -- based on Abu Nu`aym's Hilyat al-Awliya' -- Ibn al-Jawzi mentions a report that al-Hasan left behind a white cloak (jubba) made of wool (suf) which he had worn exclusively of any other for the past twenty years, winter and summer, and that when he died it was in a state of immaculate beauty, cleanness, and quality.

As to when Sufis formally appeared, then a "terminus ante quem" seems established with Hasan al-Basri (d. 110) and his student `Abd al-Wahid ibn Zayd (d. 177) who was the first person to build a Sufi khaniqa or guest-house and school at Abadan on the present-day border of Iran with Iraq.


This is related by the hafiz Abu Nu`aym (d. 430) and confirmed by Ahmad Ibn Taymiyya. Al-Harawi al-Ansari (d. 481) says in his Biographical Layers of the Sufi Masters that the first person to be actually named "al-Sufi" was Abu Hashim al-Sufi (d. 150?), a contemporary of Imam Sufyan al-Thawri (d. 165) who said: If it were not for Abu Hashim al-Sufi I would have never perceived the presence of the subtlest forms of hypocrisy in the self... Among the best of people is the Sufi learned in jurisprudence.�


Al Basri is the earliest user of [the term] sufi/tasawuuf, in �al Tusi; al Luma, 42, ��I saw a Sufi circumambulating the Kaaba, and offered him something, but he would not take it, saying, �I have four daniqs; what I have suffices me��. Keep in mind the date he died, and that he personally knew Companions of the Prophet (saw).

this matter.and sahabis' good intentions were never like a teaching or philosophy but good intention, piety, and were never a technical way to something.

Subhanahllah, regarding the hadith "Actions are but by intentions" both Imam Shafi `i and Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal stated that this hadith conveyed a third of the knowledge of the religion. Imam nawawi states The Prophets saying, 'Actions are by Intentions'. There is agreement amongst the Muslims on the greatness of this Hadith.�

IMAM NAWAWI'S COMMENTARY ON THE HADITH

http://www.abc.se/~m9783/n/intn_e.html


Ibn Rajab's Commentary

http://www.sunnah.org/ibadaat/alamal_bilniyyat.htm

you assume to much in your arguments.


Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahmad179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2007 at 3:51am

asalaam alaikum brother

i have meant the first 300 years.actually i dont like secularism and dont want too.it is a problem.but if a man wants to be religious, then should he go to a tariqa or feel tasawuf?tariqaahs are forbidden in turkey, true but as i know nobody said "it is a bidah" and they are working in secret.

Again not correct that is like saying it hadnt existed before Imam al ghazali and he invented it.

i meant he firstly allowed tasawuf to include sunni islam and being an imam he helped tasawuf improve in ulamah.

i agree it is a well grounded bidah.they made a claim to a silsillah
which encourages them.but no, sahabah dont back up them.i know there are a lot people believes that they have good silsilah, there are a lot of person in history, for example fatimis in egypt said we are coming from the sons of Fatima (RA), wrongly, as they knew themselves too.

they own a lot, sahabis' life, silsillahs.their point is that they want to reach somewhere as a saint.i believe their philosophie is a bidah, i dont accept.without tasawuf you say only some rules are left, do this dont do this.but no brother, without tasawuf real islam is left and us, islam and muslims, we are not boring.they dedicated it to sahabis, but they do not tell the thinking of tasawuf is affected from budism and maniheism.it is too hard to see the true face of tasawuf.i am asking you to search it.Because only they tell it like a philosopher and they tell what they want to see.i want you to see its real source.but i dont know how.

May Allah show us the right path



Edited by ahmad179
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