salam alaikum to all

I am very anxious about this matter.if it has passed forgive me, if it hasnt then please be all ears.

i am sorry and forgive me if any of brothers will be not happy.

Mysticism is very widespread here and tareeqah means "the way to reach Allah"

it is off the right road.They have some sheikhs in some known places, known as takkeh zaawiyah, and they who wants to reach Allah go to them and learn some systematic ways.Their philosophie named as misticism.They think and say that it is coming from the time of our prophet Muhammad(SAV), wrongly.�t is coming from other old wrong religions,(you can also see a kind of it in star wars) from the east(for example budism).it means kill the ego torture it, then reach to...

For about two or three hundred years after prophet of Allah, Mohammad (SAV), followers of his sunnah (Ahl-i Sunnah),learned men, prevented it.But after them it has become common.

Hz.Muhammad (SAV) is ordering that "Everything which is included to the religion later on is "bid'ah", and every "bid'ah" is an aberration."(so it is a term,bidah)

what does it mean to reach Allah?How can it be possible, it is like hinduism.

in another hadith Mohammed(SAV) says that imam Mahdi who will come just before Jesus alaihissalaam will end all bid'ahs.

they are taken like normal but i swear on it, it is an aberration.i have seen a topic like it and wanted to warn you.if you see some systematic ways like them dont follow them.if you follow the sunnah, Quran, you will never on a wrong way.Read hadiths and i wish the source of hadith will be grown up in your language.Be aware from the sheikhs, tareqaats, misticism, zawiyahs.

By the way i didnt want to mean bad things about my brothers, but that idea.and forgive me this is an english which is my special i hope you understand it inshaAllah.

Well said brother Ahmed. Tariqa is nothing but real innovation. It has fake pillars in America led by a man called Kabbani. He is full of his own claims. His commodity fail to sell.

Keep up the good work though I'm afraid soon they will censor you at will. Turkey need people like you to clean up this unholly alliance of Tariqa with secular forces.

Abu Mujahid 

Rami

Cool down. Talking about bidah people is not backbiting (qeebah) nor slander as you know in Islam. You were doing same regardless but no one found guilty.

Kabbani books and website speaks volume about his unwarranted belief. Check it out and defend Islam in peace.

May Allah show us the right path.

Abu Mujahid

I thought first that way but I said it can't be.

It seems my comments are causing you uneasy. Cool down. Moderators are not above critcs. Same moderators has censored/threaten me so many times without reason except I differ with them the Islam they want to sell to west. I was insulted, belittled and abused but didn't make you that big fuss. By saying they will censor you if you talk about Tariqa is not slander. You need to focus more on far damaging threads than my simple comments.

May Allah show you the true nature of slander

Abu Mujahid

salaam alaikum

actually it is considered too normal that i dont think it is going to be ended till Mehdi alaihissalam.

sometimes i am feeling like a guest, lonely, but i know i am not lonely.

i have learned a new hadith, here it is:

"Someone who shows respect to them who has bidah, who praises their alives and deads, who knows them great, has assisted to demolish religion of islam and remove it from the world."

(i tried to translate it i hope you can understand, it will be enough.)

i witness that tasawwuf and its ways, tariqaahs are bidahs.

Moderators are not above critcs.

no one appointed you a critic, muslims investigate first then speak with conviction not throw out accusations hoping something sticks based upon limited comprehension of this deen.

your posts regarding this topic are pure jahaliyah based on the writings of extremists, you have clearly shown in other topics that you do not care who you take your knowledge from.

Same moderators has censored/threaten me so many times without reason except I differ with them the Islam they want to sell to west.

I was insulted, belittled and abused but didn't make you that big fuss. By saying they will censor you if you talk about Tariqa is not slander. You need to focus more on far damaging threads than my simple comments.

If you cant understand simple forum guidelines then the fault is all yours. You also suffer from waswasa since your acusations are solely based on asumptions, evil thoughts and your delusions of some grander pro tariqah conspiracy. Did it occur to you that if the Admins agreed with your assesment of the moderators they would get rid of them but yet we see they are still here and you are slandering them.

actually it is considered too normal that i dont think it is going to be ended till Mehdi alaihissalam.

essalaamu alaikum

dear brother

i didnt mean arrogance and i am sorry.

SubhanaAllah, only Allah knows ghaib.i wish we all find the true path, so i am asking you let this go on.

Brother you should know that tariqaah means same everywhere.it means the way to reach Allah, SubhanAllah.far from it.Every tariqaah is one of different ways, which claims same things.Because it is a term, (tariq:way) in misticism(tasawwuf).

This religion doesnt accept sheikhs.Wallahee i am afraid of being arrogant and i want to warn you as a duty as much as i can.

salam alaikum brothers.

Rami

This will be my last comment of this. I didn't plan this but you make habbah qubbah.

[QUOTE=rami] Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

>Moderators are not above critcs.

no one appointed you a critic, muslims investigate first then speak with conviction not throw out accusations hoping something sticks based upon limited comprehension of this deen<

Rami I know what bugs you. You are foaming with nothing. Just cool down bro. I'm not Muridi of moderators. And no one need to be appointed to say the truth.  

>your posts regarding this topic are pure jahaliyah based on the writings of extremists<

Jahiliyah....Masha Allah. Sheikh I don't how you give Islamic courses if your throw uncessary fatwas left and right. And my writing has nothing to do with extermist writings if there is something called extermist. 

 >you have clearly shown in other topics that you do not care who you take your knowledge from<

I care about who I took from knowledge.  I took knowledge from Alhul sunnah waljamah ijaza or without ijaza.

<<Same moderators has censored/threaten me so many times without reason except I differ with them the Islam they want to sell to west. I was insulted, belittled and abused but didn't make you that big fuss. By saying they will censor you if you talk about Tariqa is not slander. You need to focus more on far damaging threads than my simple comments>>>.

>If you cant understand simple forum guidelines then the fault is all yours. You also suffer from waswasa since your acusations are solely based on asumptions, evil thoughts and your delusions of some grander pro tariqah conspiracy. Did it occur to you that if the Admins agreed with your assesment of the moderators they would get rid of them but yet we see they are still here and you are slandering them<.

I don understand Islam while you do. I don't understand guidlines, while you wrote it or consulted it. Then I have waswas then you have clean bill of nafs....Masha Allah.  Total tajhil of muslim brother......That should be fiqh Yaa sheik

BTW, I totally agree with what brother Ahmed has said so far.Turkey need more people like him to clean up the mess Sufis and seculars has created out there.

Abu Mujahid

Assalamu Alaikum,

It is very important that we comply with guidelines:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589&PN=1 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589& ; ;PN=1

Peace

I care about who I took from knowledge.  I took knowledge from Alhul sunnah waljamah ijaza or without ijaza.

no you didnt oh wise one, visit Islaam.com - Islaam.com a real site representing the views of the salafi tradition and read what they say about purification of the heart [in there http://www.islaam.com/Section.aspx?id=9 - tazkiyah section] it is the lesser jihad!

you on the other hand follow a site with no authors, you may as well take your deen from wikipedia a site where anyone can edit any article at will and write what ever they like.

I don understand Islam while you do.

No you dont understand islam while the Ulama do, i dont speak from my self unlike you.

I don't understand guidlines, while you wrote it or consulted it.

Logic would now dictate that i have a better comprehension of them.

Then I have waswas then you have clean bill of nafs....Masha Allah.  Total tajhil of muslim brother......That should be fiqh Yaa sheik

i didnt mean arrogance and i am sorry.

i didnt percieve arrogance in your post the opposite i thought you where sincere but presumptuous at the same time.

Brother you should know that tariqaah means same everywhere.

The word means the same thing everywhere but the path or teachings of each tariqah is not the same, saying they are would imply you are claiming you know ghaib as the word "everywhere" encompasses things you could not possibly know as a human.

SubhanAllah.far from it.Every tariqaah is one of different ways, which claims same things.Because it is a term, (tariq:way) in misticism(tasawwuf).

The word tassawuf does not mean mysticism this is a fact.  Tassawuf is the science of tazkiyah an nafs a term specifically mentioned in the Quran, a good example is surrah Abasah in which allah corrects the prophet [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] and asks about the blind man, how do you know he wouldnt have purified himslef [ie tahrah an nafs] and increased in good character traits [tazkiyah an nafs, meaning not only to rid himself of his bad qualities but increase in good character], achieving what allah has clearly stated here is what this Ummah for 1400 years have been trying to do and the very thing our Ulama have developed into a science. 

This is why tassawuf is known as the heart of islam and why Imam abu hanifah named his work Fiqh al Akbar or the greater or encompassing fiqh. If you have seen things you dont agree with in some sufi practice then ignore them and stick to what you understand and is clearly stated in the Quran and sunnah there is more than enough there to proove that purification of the heart is part of islam and a duty to all muslims.

if you want to attack some sufi practice by some tariqah in some obscure part of the world do so but dont make the mistake of saying tassawuf is not part of islam or that it is the practice of all tariqah's, all four madhhabs have reached a consensus on tassawuf.

Ask your self what religion would be if the very teachings/mechanisms by which a person improves himself morally are removed from that religion.

All you would have left is a set of laws that say 'dont do this, or this' without anyone knowing why they are performing these acts.

how many people know why we pray, why we fast, why we go to hajj, why we give zakaht....becouse others are doing them or we were just taught to do them?

If everything is according to intention and allah gives according to a persons intention, and if people dont know why they do these acts how can there intention be anything good they are just going through the motions of prayer and fasting and hajj without any sense of direction in there life or religion.

asalaam alaikum
brother rami,
i understand you about morale point.but tasawuf is not the heart of islam.
i know that ulama of ahlisunnah had criticized tasawuf keenly for about three hundred years.Only with imam Gazali it could be included sunni islam in 11-12.centuries.And for muslims who lived after Muhammad (SAW) till that time, what can you say about morale?They had their goodness, but they were far from tasawuf.

is takwa not the respect of Allah and good intention?For Allah we do our prayers, to please Allah, we do.
i want to say that if one thing was not in the religion for about three hundred years and if it was included later on, it is certainly a bidah.Rasulullah (SAW) is very clear about this matter.and sahabis' good intentions were never like a teaching or philosophy but good intention, piety, and were never a technical way to something.

may Allah show us the right path.

�This knowledge is a branch of the sciences of Sacred Law that originated within the Umma. From the first, the way of such people had also been considered the path of truth and guidance by the early Muslim community and its notables, of the Companions of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), those who were taught by them, and those who came after them.

It basically consists of dedication to worship, total dedication to Allah Most High, disregard for the finery and ornament of the world, abstinence from the pleasure, wealth, and prestige sought by most men, and retiring from others to worship alone. This was the general rule among the Companions of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and the early Muslims, but when involvement in this-worldly things became widespread from the second Islamic century onwards and people became absorbed in worldliness, those devoted to worship came to be called Sufiyya or �People of Tasawwuf� (al-Muqaddima, 467)

�Ibn al-Jawzi wrote a 100-page book on al-Hasan al- Basri's life and manners entitled Adab al-Shaykh al- Hasan ibn Abi al-Hasan al-Basri. In his chapter on al- Hasan in his compendium of the saints entitled Sifat al-Safwa -- based on Abu Nu`aym's Hilyat al-Awliya' -- Ibn al-Jawzi mentions a report that al-Hasan left behind a white cloak (jubba) made of wool (suf) which he had worn exclusively of any other for the past twenty years, winter and summer, and that when he died it was in a state of immaculate beauty, cleanness, and quality.

As to when Sufis formally appeared, then a "terminus ante quem" seems established with Hasan al-Basri (d. 110) and his student `Abd al-Wahid ibn Zayd (d. 177) who was the first person to build a Sufi khaniqa or guest-house and school at Abadan on the present-day border of Iran with Iraq.

This is related by the hafiz Abu Nu`aym (d. 430) and confirmed by Ahmad Ibn Taymiyya. Al-Harawi al-Ansari (d. 481) says in his Biographical Layers of the Sufi Masters that the first person to be actually named "al-Sufi" was Abu Hashim al-Sufi (d. 150?), a contemporary of Imam Sufyan al-Thawri (d. 165) who said: If it were not for Abu Hashim al-Sufi I would have never perceived the presence of the subtlest forms of hypocrisy in the self... Among the best of people is the Sufi learned in jurisprudence.�

asalaam alaikum brother

i have meant the first 300 years.actually i dont like secularism and dont want too.it is a problem.but if a man wants to be religious, then should he go to a tariqa or feel tasawuf?tariqaahs are forbidden in turkey, true but as i know nobody said "it is a bidah" and they are working in secret.

Again not correct that is like saying it hadnt existed before Imam al ghazali and he invented it.

i meant he firstly allowed tasawuf to include sunni islam and being an imam he helped tasawuf improve in ulamah.

i agree it is a well grounded bidah.they made a claim to a silsillah
which encourages them.but no, sahabah dont back up them.i know there are a lot people believes that they have good silsilah, there are a lot of person in history, for example fatimis in egypt said we are coming from the sons of Fatima (RA), wrongly, as they knew themselves too.

they own a lot, sahabis' life, silsillahs.their point is that they want to reach somewhere as a saint.i believe their philosophie is a bidah, i dont accept.without tasawuf you say only some rules are left, do this dont do this.but no brother, without tasawuf real islam is left and us, islam and muslims, we are not boring.they dedicated it to sahabis, but they do not tell the thinking of tasawuf is affected from budism and maniheism.it is too hard to see the true face of tasawuf.i am asking you to search it.Because only they tell it like a philosopher and they tell what they want to see.i want you to see its real source.but i dont know how.

May Allah show us the right path

Assalamualaikum w.r.w.b

dear brothers n sisters,

i was just surfing this website for the first time and found tariqat mohammadiyah in discussion forum.

i went through all discussions what you had and felt that rami is always trying to say against true teachings of islam.

i have one question to rami and like minded people- is it not sufficient for you the teachings of Prophet Mohammad(Peace be upon him),way of Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him).

pls go through Al Quran (9:24) to know the degree of love for Prophet Mohammend(Peace be upon him) required from every believer so that we become guided by Allah (SWT).

PLS  follow Quran and Sunnah which suffices our necessities to enter Jannah.

pls follow the teachings of the final Messenger and be one among the guided.

wassalaam.

ghanibabar

ghanibabar wrote: Assalamualaikum w.r.w.b dear brothers n sisters, i was just surfing this website for the first time and found tariqat mohammadiyah in discussion forum. i went through all discussions what you had and felt that rami is always trying to say against true teachings of islam.

Please provide the statement that Brother Rami made that goes againt Islam? I have never seen him make such statements.

i have one question to rami and like minded people- is it not sufficient for you the teachings of Prophet Mohammad(Peace be upon him),way of Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him).

That is a complex question, which is a question that has an assumption buried in the premise of the question. It is a fallacy of presumption. You have to prove that being in a tariqa that is within the boundaries of the 4 schools of fiqh is somehow mutually exlusive to being "sufficed with the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (saw)". 

pls go through Al Quran (9:24) to know the degree of love for Prophet Mohammend(Peace be upon him) required from every believer so that we become guided by Allah (SWT). PLS  follow Quran and Sunnah which suffices our necessities to enter Jannah.   pls follow the teachings of the final Messenger and be one among the guided. wassalaam. ghanibabar

please prove that being in a tariqah that is within the boundaries of the sacred law is mutually exclusive to following the teachings of the Prophet (saw).

Being in a tariqa is not a matter of of aqida, you can take it or leave it, so there is no issue of having to be in a tariqa to get into jannah.

wassalam

asalaam alaikum

brother rami, i still say same things but i want to accept that i am really presumptuous.i have noticed it.

at least you are interested. i am ignorant.

but i say same things, believe me.

i went through all discussions what you had and felt that rami is always trying to say against true teachings of islam.

I dont believe you have read everything i have ever written!

Where did you get your true teachings of islam from thin air or what other people say?

If you attempt to think for your self you will eventually realise that the only way to arrive at the truth rather than blindly follow what other people say is to look at the evidence and investigate for your self what the truth is.

Clearly you have not done this simple task becouse of the shear fact you think what i say is outside of islam, so then how can you claim to be speaking the truth and that your judgment is correct.

A person who honestly seeks the truth will look at all the evidence, meaning all ahadith all verses in the Quran all the opinions of every experts regardless of whether they are conflicting or not and judge impartially rather than with blind emotion.

If you had done any of this you would have considered every single quote and reference i have ever provided rather than place your head in the sand and pretend it [the evidence] didnt exist, becouse for you to say what i have said is outside of islam is to accuse my sources and refrence and thus every single scholar i have ever taken them from of being kufar and outside of islam.

Is Imam Nawawi a kafir?

Is Imam Ibn Rajib al Hanbali a kafir

Is Imam Suyuti a Kafir

Is Imam Abdul Qadir al Gilani a kafir

was Ibn Taymiyah a Kafir

Have you weighed up how much of what i say is from my self and how much is direct quotes from these and other Ulama of this Ummah.

i have one question to rami and like minded people- is it not sufficient for you the teachings of Prophet Mohammad(Peace be upon him),way of Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him).

How did the teachings of Muhammad [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] reach you 1400 years after his death if not by the very scholars you accuse of being against your TRUE teachings of Islam, put your head in the sand and pretend none of it is true and what you are raised on is absolute and masum.

As allah says in the Quran dont you think dont you percieve?

 It appears that this discussion is for and against Sufism. Sufism seemed to be at the time of the prophet s.a.w.s. There were some persons called Ashaab e Suffah. There used to be persons at the door of the prophet or at the mosque ready to hear anything from the prophet. Hazrat Abu Hurairah ra.a. was one of them.

His brother came and complained to the prophet s.a.w.s. that Abu Hurairah does not do any work all day and he himself has to do all the effort to earn. The prophet told the brother that perhaps what you are getting / earning is due to the good work of Abuhurairah.

Because Abu Hurarah (AH) did not work, he did not have money and some time he used to be very hungry, so much that he used to have fits. People thought that he had some kind of Jinn. So they used to beat him with shoes etc. But they did not know that he was suffering due to lack of food.

One day when he (AH) was very hungry and Hazrat Umar was passing by, he presented a verse of the Quran which stated something about feeding the poor and he asked the meaning of that verse hoping that Hazrat Umar will understand and help him. But Hazrat Umar told the meaning and passed on. Then came Hazrat Abubakr. Hazrat AH asked him the meaning of the same verse. He also told the meaning and went away.

Very soon, the prophet s.a.w.s. came there. AH asked the prophet the meaning of the verse. The prophet s.a.w.s. understood. He said "Abu hurairah, are you hungry?" He said "yes". The prophet s.a.w.s. said, "Come with me.."  More in next post please.