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Topic ClosedNudity in western culture

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Rehmat View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2005 at 4:23pm

Now back to the original topic � The nudity and vulgarity in western societies.

 

The position of women in the Judaeo-Christian tradition might seem frightening by our late twentieth century standards. Nevertheless, it has to be viewed within the proper historical context. In other words, any objective assessment of the position of women in the Judaeo-Christian tradition has to take into account the historical circumstances in which this tradition developed. There can be no doubt that the views of the Rabbis and the Church Fathers regarding women were influenced by the prevalent attitudes towards women in their societies. The Bible itself was written by different authors at different times. These authors could not have been impervious to the values and the way of life of the people around them. For example, the adultery laws of the Old Testament are so biased against women that they defy rational explanation by our mentality. However, if we consider the fact that the early Jewish tribes were obsessed with their genetic homogeneity and extremely eager to define themselves apart from the surrounding tribes and that only sexual misconduct by the married females of the tribes could threaten these cherished aspirations, we should then be able to understand, but not necessarily sympathize with, the reasons for this bias. Also, the diatribes of the Church Fathers against women should not be detached from the context of the misogynist Greco-Roman culture in which they lived. It would be unfair to evaluate the Judaeo-Christian legacy without giving any consideration to the relevant historical context.

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kim! View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2005 at 8:57pm

Muslims traded in African slaves for a long time. White people in the USA brought people from Africa to be slaves in the USA. The Portuguese brought people over from Africa to be slaves as well. No one seems to have either mentioned or really acknowledged any of matters like these.

Seems like Africa has a lot to be angry about and a lot of white people had/have some apologising to do.

(And yes - white people in Australia did some awful stuff for a long time, although I believe things were not so nasty in New Zealand - they seem to have got their act together earlier than we did)

And if anyone's interested - Angel's from Australia, not Israel.

Oh - and what does "same sex marriages" have to do with Colin? Gee, you must have a hard time in Canada - a place that is civilised enough to let people who love each other actually be married. 

Rehmat - what do you have against Australia? You insult us left, right and centre, despite the fact that Angel and I are the sorts of people who will actually agree with much of what you say about about our past. Although you have not been around very long, I think, and you appear to think that most non-Muslims are scum anyway. Well, get over it - God created us too, so one assumes we have a purpose. Even if it's just to irritate Sensitive Little Flowers like extremists...

Oh, and to get back on topic - if people spent more time nude, we would learn how to be less paranoid, less repressed, less judgmental and would actually treat each other less as sex-objects and more as real people. Nudity is only exciting to people who go to men's clubs and strip joints because it is generally disallowed and frowned upon in general society. If nudity was more widespread, people would not find it exciting. It would just be normal and people would just be regarded as human, not as toys.

I can remember several years ago on the old Islamicity boards, "Aus" complaining that he now felt "nothing" when he saw women around him on the street because he was now accoustomed to seeing women everywhere with now veils and wearing Western clothes.

He seemed to think that "feeling nothing" towards women in the street was a problem. I welcomed him "to the world", explaining that it's normal and natural to feel nothing towards women in the street because if he felt "something" towards all the women in the street, then wouldn't that make him a sick pervert? (or words to that extent, forgive me if I'm remembering my words wrongly, but that was my intent, as I remember)

It worries me that he apparently thinks it's normal to "feel something" towards loads of women whp were complete strangers.

If you repress people's instincts or feelings, then those feelings and instincts will emerge in some other way, some other time. Why do you think Catholic priests have so much sex? If you tell people they can't do something, then a lot of the time, they will want to do it. You can't stop all of the people all of the time. So you may as well let them do it and get it out of their system, so the thing is not so fascinating or exciting any more.

Kim...



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ZamanH View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2005 at 11:02pm

Originally posted by Kim Kim wrote:

Muslims traded in African slaves for a long time. White people in the USA brought people from Africa to be slaves in the USA. The Portuguese brought people over from Africa to be slaves as well. No one seems to have either mentioned or really acknowledged any of matters like these.

Although Muslims traded in African slaves, they also had White slaves. In contrast, Westerners picked up only the coloured people for slavery, at least in the Modern era. Therefore, Westerners should be considered to be antagonistic to all the coloured people. Though, the slaves were treated worse by the Westerners compared to the Muslims, that is irrelevant.

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ZamanH View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2005 at 11:12pm

Originally posted by Kim! Kim! wrote:

If you repress people's instincts or feelings, then those feelings and instincts will emerge in some other way, some other time. Why do you think Catholic priests have so much sex?

Yeah, I agree. But going to the other extreme is not the solution, either. We should adopt a middle approach.

Law should enforce women to wear veil to eliminate prostitution in all its forms. Prostitution should be defined as extracting materialistic favours from other men, by sexually exciting them, by  women.

 

 

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
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..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
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semar View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2005 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by Kim! Kim! wrote:

Nudity is only exciting to people who go to men's clubs and strip joints because it is generally disallowed and frowned upon in general society. If nudity was more widespread, people would not find it exciting. It would just be normal and people would just be regarded as human, not as toys.

If you repress people's instincts or feelings, then those feelings and instincts will emerge in some other way, some other time. Why do you think Catholic priests have so much sex? If you tell people they can't do something, then a lot of the time, they will want to do it. You can't stop all of the people all of the time. So you may as well let them do it and get it out of their system, so the thing is not so fascinating or exciting any more.

Kim probably you are right, but the problem is the evilness of human being is never ever can be satisfied, let say the nudity and free sex become public, people will do something else that more exciting for example having sex with animal, biological brother/sister, biological parents/children etc. We can see this tend in western culture. The first one (sex with animal) still circulate on blue film.  For the second one (biologicalbrother/sister, biological parents/children etc) you can see it more public on program such as jerry springer (in the US) etc.

The approach that Islam does, not suppressing the instinct and biological need, but control and manage it in the proper and civilize way.



Edited by semar
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Semar

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"1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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Colin View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2005 at 11:47pm
Originally posted by Rehmat Rehmat wrote:

Originally posted by Colin Colin wrote:

...Sorry mate, I have no idea which history books you "had been reading".

Sorry I don't believe in 'same sex marriages'.

The history books I have been reading were, fortunately, not written by Bernard Lewis or Williams Collin. The say that Arab became Muslims 250 years after the Church chased Nazarenes to Africa.

Rehmat, I also don't believe in same sex marriages - not even as a wacky form of population control... Anyhow, back to history books. As I'm sure you are aware, history books are no different from any other reference books in that some are good, some are bad and some totally indifferent. Many of the worst history books are nothing more than propaganda.

 



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Rehmat View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2005 at 4:36am

Originally posted by Colin Colin wrote:

Rehmat, I also don't believe in same sex marriages ...

That mean you did not know the meaning of English word 'mate'! Now how the heck you expect me to believe rest of your stuff?

As far history books are concerned - let me quote you some 'wise guy' who once said - History is written by the victors. How else you suppose the Nazis are villified while their 'Zionist collaborators' are being rewarded in $trillions!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2005 at 7:42am
Originally posted by Rehmat Rehmat wrote:

Originally posted by Colin Colin wrote:

Rehmat, I also don't believe in same sex marriages ...   

That mean you did not know the meaning of English word 'mate'! Now how the heck you expect me to believe rest of your stuff? 

Mate = friend....It could also mean to copulate, I understand a fair amount of the aforementioned activity happens outside of marital relationships (be they same sex or hetrosexual).......but I can assure you that I was using the word purely in context of friendship.

Quote As far history books are concerned - let me quote you some 'wise guy' who once said - History is written by the victors. How else you suppose the Nazis are villified while their 'Zionist collaborators' are being rewarded in $trillions! 

Regardless of who wrote the history of WW2, I'm sure that the Nazi did quite enough to ensure they got a bad write-up. 

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