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Ali Sina’s cowardice
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AnnieTwo View Drop Down
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Points: 281 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnieTwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2006 at 6:44am
AbRah,

How can I convince you AnnieTwo?

Not by blasting away at the Bible, not by presenting former Christian testimonies who have embraced Islam.  I could counter with former Muslims who have embraced Christianity.

You must explain why you believe that Muhammad was a prophet.  What proof do you have?  Why should one believe that Muhammad was a prophet?  The Qur'an is not proof.

It is your faith, isn't it?  You have faith that he was a prophet.  Isn't it all based on faith?

Were you always a Muslim?  Were you born one?  What is your testimony?

Annie
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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AbRah2006 View Drop Down
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Points: 354 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AbRah2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2006 at 4:59am

I will give some examples of Christian missionaries who have embraced Islam and they are active in preaching Islam and their names are genuine and so are their background:

 

1) Dr. Gary Miller  was a Christian missionary but  now he is a Muslim missionary  His Muslim name is Abdul-Ahad Omar. His background:

G.R. Miller is a mathematician and a theologian. He was active in Christian missionary work at a particular point of his life but he soon began to discover many inconsistencies in the Bible. In 1978, he happened to read the Qur'an expecting that it, too, would contain a mixture of truth and falsehood.


He discovered to his amazement that the message of the Qur'an was precisely the same as the essence of truth that he had distilled from the Bible. He became a Muslim and since then has been active in giving public presentations on Islam including radio and television appearances. He is also the author of several articles and publications about Islam.

Please visit this website if you to know him http://www.thetruecall.com/home/modules.php?name=News&fi le=article&sid=215

2) Yusuf Estes was a Christian missionary but now  he has embraced Islam

and he become a Muslim missionary. Do you want to know him? Please visit his website http://islamtomorrow.com/  

How can I convince you AnnieTwo?

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AnnieTwo View Drop Down
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Andalus,

I would say there are many who make the claim of being an "ex-Muslim", and I have read the arguments of the biggest "examples" held up by detractors of Islam, and I have yet to find any argument that convinces me 1) that they were actually Muslims and 2) that they have some information that is detrimental to my faith 3) that has any outcome on my faith

BMZ:

You said it well. Nobody even knows their real names and identities. I have yet to see one real "ex-Muslim" in my own life.

I have never met someone who calls themselves an ex-Christian who  really was a Christian in the first place.  Anyone can call themselves whatever they want, but it takes more than calling yourself a Christian to actually be one.

A Muslim who says that they were a former "Christian" and has converted to Islam, is not being accurate.

BMZ, about those "real names."  They change their names because their lives are in danger from the Muslims.  Some change their names because they have found a better one that suits their faith.

Annie
14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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BMZ View Drop Down
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Points: 1852 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2006 at 2:00am

Andalus,

 You said it well. Nobody even knows their real names and identities. I have yet to see one real "ex-Muslim" in my own life.

BR & Salaams

BMZ
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Andalus View Drop Down
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Points: 1187 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andalus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2006 at 8:32pm

Originally posted by AnnieTwo AnnieTwo wrote:

Originally posted by fredifreeloader fredifreeloader wrote:

abrah - you couldnt debate your own shadow.  just who is this ali sina bloke?


Hello my friend Fredifeeloader,

Ali Sina is very famous. 

"Infamous" would be a more accurate word. He is infamous for his trashy site and distasteful polemics.

Originally posted by Annie2 Annie2 wrote:

He is an ex-Muslim and started his own website at FaithFreedom to express his views on Islam which aren't pretty, but I haven't read much of what he writes.

This is his claim. A great deal of his "juvenile" polemics would say that his claim is doubtful, or at least suspect, or perhaps he could have been a Muslim and not understood very much abut his own faith. His bad polemics are evidence that his "ex-Muslimhood" should be questioned. 

Originally posted by Annie2 Annie2 wrote:

  I think he is an atheist now and doesn't believe in any religion because of his experiences with Islam. 

 

What a shame. He will give athiests a very bad name. I know some very well mannered and intelligent athiests.

 

Originally posted by Annie2 Annie2 wrote:

 Muslims are not fond of him.  That's all I know about him.  From what little I know about Sina, AbRah could not win a debate with him under any circumstances. 

 

It would not matter if someone won a debate with him. He is a vulgar, distasteful lout, who would not debate for the sake of truth. He has been shown for being scrupulous by Nader in the past and he continues with the same billigerent tirades. He gives sophists a bad name.  

Originally posted by Annie2 Annie2 wrote:


There are a lot of ex-Muslims out there that are vehemently against Islam, but a lot of them consider the Muslims a part of their "family" and care about them very, very much as all Christians should.

Annie

I would say there are many who make the claim of being an "ex-Muslim", and I have read the arguments of the biggest "examples" held up by detractors of Islam, and I have yet to find any argument that convinces me 1) that they were actually Muslims and 2) that they have some information that is detrimental to my faith 3) that has any outcome on my faith

Peace
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
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AbRah2006 View Drop Down
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Points: 354 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AbRah2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2006 at 11:03am

Originally posted by fredifreeloader fredifreeloader wrote:

abrah - so having failed to answer my point on the cross/tree issue, and having repeated yourself (as you so often do) by claiming im like a ship without a rudder going round in circles, you now applaud yourself like this - first time ive ever seen somone applaud themselves in a forum, how sad

My response: I have effectively refuted you in the argument****

The same answer of mine for the same question of yours:

My response: Hey Reedoloader....Can't you differentiate a tree from a cross? If it was a cross why did the writers of  Acts write it as a tree? And why did the writers of the Gospels write it as a cross if it was a tree? Were the writers blind that they could not differentiate a tree from a cross? Are you blind too? Why don't you call a cross a tree and vice versa in your daily life? Why?

The Bible contradicts itself by saying:(a) Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree.

(b)Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

(c)Matthew 27:41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,
Matthew27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Hey Fredi.... I wonder what kind of cross that can grow up consuming fertilisers etc and doing photosynthetic process.

 



Edited by amah
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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George View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AbRah2006 AbRah2006 wrote:

AnnieTwo said : I don't remember one allegation you made against Christianity where you used facts.  What I do remember is that you don't accept any answer but your own.

My response: I am using your own Bible to refute your own wild allegations and now you are saying that the Bible doesn't contain facts! Let me quote your own word....AnnieTwo said : I don't remember one allegation you made against Christianity where you used facts.

Lol...........Is the Bible a fiction to you?  I think so.

I've been reading your allegations.  They are simply allegations and nothing else.  They show that you do not have a command of interpretation.  It also shows that you cut and paste these allegations without looking into them yourself.

Peace
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fredifreeloader View Drop Down
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Points: 456 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fredifreeloader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2006 at 8:12am
abrah - so having failed to answer my point on the cross/tree issue, and having repeated yourself (as you so often do) by claiming im like a ship without a rudder going round in circles, you now applaud yourself like this - first time ive ever seen somone applaud themselves in a forum, how sad
for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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