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Peace maker 
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 Posted: 10 July 2018 at 1:32pm |
 asep garut wrote:
Peace maker wrote:
asep garut wrote:
[QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
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Peace maker,
Indeed, what
you describe is all in the history, the worship ritual performed by Muslims
which is exemplified by the Prophet Muhammad is a ritual of worship in
accordance with the command of Allah, although it seems the same as the pagan
ritual.
They (pagans)
also worshiped their gods around the Ka'ba, but all the ritual polytheism was
straightened out by the Prophet Muhammad become a 'Tauheed" ritual (there
is no god except Allah). It is as the same as what had been done by all the
Prophets before, such as salah (prayer), all the prophets perform the prayers
as Muslims do now, which the different is only in the time of execution and the
number of its salah.
Ramadan is
just the name of the moon, whatever the community that performs religious
rituals on that month no one forbids, but for Muslims have a guidance directly
from their God. Similarly with fasting, other prophets are also doing fasting
as commanded by God. Muslims do worship not because of imitating pagan but
because of the command of Allah as the same as all Prophets did.
Prophet
Muhammad is the successor of the monotheistic religions of the previous
Prophets whose teachings have been completed by Allah as a warning to the whole
of nature as in His word.
Some people
say that Islam is a new religion, but for me, Islam is the religion that first
appeared on the surface of this earth since the Prophet Adam 'alaihissalam.
|
There was no Hajj, Ramadaan or Kabaa and any isalmic practices in the Bible what you want to tell its right use pagan practises in God's religion then why didn't Elijah incorporated the Baal rituals into the Jewis religion. 1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink from the cup of the Lord,and the cup of devils:you cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. 1 Corinthians 10:21 Context Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he? All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.So this explain in detail to yo what the pagans had sacificed in Muhammad's time was to devils. This also explained that there can not and will not be any Prophet after Jesus so stop wasting your time. Hebrews 1. God’s Final Word: His Son
IN THE PAST GOD SPOKE TO US
ANCESTORS THROUGH THE PROPHETS AT MANY TIMES AND IN VARIOUS WAYS
BUT IN THESE LAST DAYS HE HAS SPOKEN TO
US BY HIS SON THROUGH WHOM HE APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, AND THROUGH WHOM ALSO
HE MADE THE UNIVERSE.
THE SON IS THE RADIANCE OF GOD'S GLORY AND THE EXACT
REPRESENTION OF HIS BEING, SUSTAINING ALL THINGS BY HIS POWERFULL WORD AFTER HE
HAD PROVIDED PURIFICATION OR SINS, HE SAT
DOWN AT THE RIGHT OF GOD OF THE MAJESTY IN HEAVEN. SO HE BECAME AS MUCH SUPERIOUR TO THE ANGELS
AS THE NAME HE HE HAS INHERITED IS SUPERIOUR
TO THEIRS.
The Son Superiour to Angels.
For which of the
angels did God ever say You are my Son today I have become your Father.
Or again I will be his Father and he will be my Son.
Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my
saying, he shall never see death.
Joh 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou
hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep
my saying, he shall never taste of death.
Joh 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is
dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is
nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your
God:
Joh 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I
should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him,
and keep his saying.
Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he
saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57 Then said
the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen
Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said
unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
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DavidC
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Joined: 20 September 2001
Location: Florida USA
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Posted: 10 July 2018 at 6:38am |
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Asep's speculation, "Some people say that Islam is a new religion, but for me, Islam is the religion that first appeared on the surface of this earth since the Prophet Adam 'alaihissalam. " is supported by Genesis 14:17-18 and the blessing of Abraham by Melchizedek, the priest/king of Salem.
This act of blessing by a priest can only be interpreted as a formal religious system extant before Judaism. Asep may well be correct from a Christian perspective.
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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fatimunnisa
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Joined: 09 July 2018
Location: Hyderabad
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Posted: 10 July 2018 at 6:28am |
It is said that Ibrahim-aale-salaam was grand father of our Prophet Mohammed (saw) and our Nabi(saw) met him on the 7th sky in the night shab-e-Meraj mubarak.
So Ibrahim aale salaam is special as we recite Durood-e-ibraheem in our every salaah it shows Allah granted him dignity. And he is a special Prophet But our Prophet Mohammed (SAW) IS SUPERIOR TO ALL FIRST AND THE LAST PROPHET OF ALLAH
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asep garut
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Joined: 02 November 2017
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Posted: 09 July 2018 at 8:58pm |
Peace maker wrote:
asep garut wrote:
[QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
|
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Peace maker,
Indeed, what
you describe is all in the history, the worship ritual performed by Muslims
which is exemplified by the Prophet Muhammad is a ritual of worship in
accordance with the command of Allah, although it seems the same as the pagan
ritual.
They (pagans)
also worshiped their gods around the Ka'ba, but all the ritual polytheism was
straightened out by the Prophet Muhammad become a 'Tauheed" ritual (there
is no god except Allah). It is as the same as what had been done by all the
Prophets before, such as salah (prayer), all the prophets perform the prayers
as Muslims do now, which the different is only in the time of execution and the
number of its salah.
Ramadan is
just the name of the moon, whatever the community that performs religious
rituals on that month no one forbids, but for Muslims have a guidance directly
from their God. Similarly with fasting, other prophets are also doing fasting
as commanded by God. Muslims do worship not because of imitating pagan but
because of the command of Allah as the same as all Prophets did.
Prophet
Muhammad is the successor of the monotheistic religions of the previous
Prophets whose teachings have been completed by Allah as a warning to the whole
of nature as in His word.
Some people
say that Islam is a new religion, but for me, Islam is the religion that first
appeared on the surface of this earth since the Prophet Adam 'alaihissalam.
|
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Peace maker
Senior Member
Joined: 26 November 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 314
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Posted: 28 June 2018 at 9:10am |
asep garut wrote:
Peace maker wrote:
asep garut wrote:
Peace maker wrote:
[QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
|
Sorry,
I just can reply because of busyness in the month of Ramadan.
I
say once again that Prophet Muhammad was not the first inventor and founder of
Islam.
In
this case you must know and understand what is the meaning of the word Islam?
The
word 'Islam' is derived from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered
to Allah, and from the word "Salima" is to obtain salvation from
Allah. Thus Islam implies:
Submission
to Allah, and worship only to Allah in order to obtain salvation from Him.
And
those who practice Islamic sharia are called "Muslims"
From
the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who
invite his people to Allah and surrender only to Allah. (Quran 21:92)
“Truly!
This Tauheed religion (Islamic Monotheism) is the religion of your ummah
(followers), the one religion, and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me.”
Here
are some evidence that the Prophets were people who submitted to Allah
(Muslim):
Prophet Noah, he has invited his people to be
Muslims, (Quran 10:72)
“But if you turn away (from accepting my
doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah), then no reward
have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to
be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allah’s Will).”
Prophet Abraham and Prophet Jacob. (Quran
2:132)
“And this submission to Allah (Islam) was
enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) saying: ‘O my
sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the
Faith of Islam’.”
Prophet Ibrahim is known as the father of the
Prophets, automatically, his 'Tauheed' will also followed by the next Prophets.
Prophet Musa (Moses). (Quran 10:84)
“And Musa (Moses) said: ’O my people! If you
have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims’.”
Prophet Isa (Jesus). (Quran 5:72)
“....But the Messiah Isa (Jesus) said: ‘ O
Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Verily, whosoever
sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to
him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no
helpers’.”
In conclusion, all the Prophets are those who
submit to Allah and who are worshiped only Allah, means they are Muslims.
That's all my belief in the Qur'an, anyone can
have other opinion, therefore, one's faith should not be forced because only
Allah who has the “Hidayah" (Guidance).
My principle in religion is, firstly I must
understand the Quran to always follow the truth from Allah. (6:153)
“And verily, this Quran is My Straight Path,
so follow it, and follow not other paths, for there will separate you away from
His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the
pious).”
The Quran 39:9
“.....say: ‘Are those who know equal to
those who know not? verily, only those who have common sense are willing to
accept the lesson (get lesson from Allah’s Signs and Verses of the Quran).” So, Prophet Muhammad is not a liar.
|
Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time which he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans. The rest is not God's word a k a Allah. The Quran is not the truth of Allah or any god, but it was only from Muhammad. No Angel of God would dare to start a new religion after Jesus except the Satan. |
Peace maker,
You
said: “Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month
of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before
Muhammad's time”
If I
noticed from your words it seems that your knowledge of the Qur'an as already
surpassed the real Muslim scholars. Now I want to ask you how much you know
about the history of the Qur'an:
1.
What date was the Quran revealed? please prove it with
the proposition.
2.
You said: “he incorparated into
islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from
the pagans.” Please
provide the proof (not personal opinion), because in this day, people will not
believe without evidence that can be trusted or rational.
The principle in Islam is only to
convey the truths from God (Allah), while for those who do not want to accept
it, it is the right of person, because the teachings of Islam forbid to force a
person to become Muslim, only Allah who can give Hidayah (guidance) to anyone
whom He wants, or it may be for those who do not want to accept His teachings
is a sunnatullah (the will of God) as in His word.
|
Some historians claimed its in 22 December 609 and some claim its in the month of Ramadan the last ten days in one the odd nights of Ramadan. Your own own holy books proof it not mine. Sahih means authentic Bukhari Volume 2,Book 26 Number 689. Narrated Abu Huraira: in the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allah's Apostle made AbU Bakr the leader of the pilgrims,the (Abu Bakr)sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year,and no no naked person is allowed to perform the Tawaf of the Kaba.
Some of Muhammad's closest followers didn't like to perform
the Saee of al-Safa and al-Marwah, for example, because they knew it had been a
ritual of Arabian jinn-devil worship:
Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710 Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas
bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and
Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the
Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two
mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore
no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to
perform Tawaf between them.'" (2.158)
The vast majority of Muhammad's followers have not bothered
to investigate where the tradition of Ramadan came from other than to believe
that, like everything else in Islam, Muhammad engaged in it and/or instructed
his followers to.
"Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar and
the rigid observance of thirty days of fasting during the daylight hours, has
pagan roots developed in India and the Middle East. The observance of fasting
to honor the moon, and ending the fast when the moon’s crescent appears, was
practiced with the rituals of the Eastern worshippers of the moon. Both Ibn
al-Nadim and the Shahrastani tell us about
al-Jandrikinieh, an Indian sect which began to fast when the moon
disappeared and ended the fast with a great feast when the crescent reappeared.
"In Mecca, the Ahnaf were called Sabians because of the
doctrines they embraced. Later, when Mohammed claimed to be a prophet, he was
called a Sabian by the inhabitants of Mecca because they saw him performing
many Sabian rites which included praying five times a day; performing several
movements in prayer that were identical with the Mandaeans and the Harranians;
and making ablution, or ceremonial washing, before each prayer. In the Qur'an,
Mohammed called the Sabians “people of the book” like the Jews and Christians.
Ramadan was a pagan ceremony practiced by the Sabians, whether
they were Harranians or Sabians. From the writings of Abu Zanad, an Arabic
writer from Iraq who lived around 747 A.D., we conclude that at least one
Mandaean community located in northern Iraq observed Ramadan.
What the pagans revealed to Muhammad instantly changed to one
of Allah’s revelations.
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asep garut
Senior Member
Joined: 02 November 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 366
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Posted: 25 June 2018 at 6:54pm |
Peace maker wrote:
asep garut wrote:
Peace maker wrote:
[QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
|
Sorry,
I just can reply because of busyness in the month of Ramadan.
I
say once again that Prophet Muhammad was not the first inventor and founder of
Islam.
In
this case you must know and understand what is the meaning of the word Islam?
The
word 'Islam' is derived from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered
to Allah, and from the word "Salima" is to obtain salvation from
Allah. Thus Islam implies:
Submission
to Allah, and worship only to Allah in order to obtain salvation from Him.
And
those who practice Islamic sharia are called "Muslims"
From
the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who
invite his people to Allah and surrender only to Allah. (Quran 21:92)
“Truly!
This Tauheed religion (Islamic Monotheism) is the religion of your ummah
(followers), the one religion, and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me.”
Here
are some evidence that the Prophets were people who submitted to Allah
(Muslim):
Prophet Noah, he has invited his people to be
Muslims, (Quran 10:72)
“But if you turn away (from accepting my
doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah), then no reward
have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to
be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allah’s Will).”
Prophet Abraham and Prophet Jacob. (Quran
2:132)
“And this submission to Allah (Islam) was
enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) saying: ‘O my
sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the
Faith of Islam’.”
Prophet Ibrahim is known as the father of the
Prophets, automatically, his 'Tauheed' will also followed by the next Prophets.
Prophet Musa (Moses). (Quran 10:84)
“And Musa (Moses) said: ’O my people! If you
have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims’.”
Prophet Isa (Jesus). (Quran 5:72)
“....But the Messiah Isa (Jesus) said: ‘ O
Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Verily, whosoever
sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to
him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no
helpers’.”
In conclusion, all the Prophets are those who
submit to Allah and who are worshiped only Allah, means they are Muslims.
That's all my belief in the Qur'an, anyone can
have other opinion, therefore, one's faith should not be forced because only
Allah who has the “Hidayah" (Guidance).
My principle in religion is, firstly I must
understand the Quran to always follow the truth from Allah. (6:153)
“And verily, this Quran is My Straight Path,
so follow it, and follow not other paths, for there will separate you away from
His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the
pious).”
The Quran 39:9
“.....say: ‘Are those who know equal to
those who know not? verily, only those who have common sense are willing to
accept the lesson (get lesson from Allah’s Signs and Verses of the Quran).” So, Prophet Muhammad is not a liar.
|
Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time which he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans. The rest is not God's word a k a Allah. The Quran is not the truth of Allah or any god, but it was only from Muhammad. No Angel of God would dare to start a new religion after Jesus except the Satan. |
Peace maker,
You
said: “Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month
of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before
Muhammad's time”
If I
noticed from your words it seems that your knowledge of the Qur'an as already
surpassed the real Muslim scholars. Now I want to ask you how much you know
about the history of the Qur'an:
1.
What date was the Quran revealed? please prove it with
the proposition.
2.
You said: “he incorparated into
islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from
the pagans.” Please
provide the proof (not personal opinion), because in this day, people will not
believe without evidence that can be trusted or rational.
The principle in Islam is only to
convey the truths from God (Allah), while for those who do not want to accept
it, it is the right of person, because the teachings of Islam forbid to force a
person to become Muslim, only Allah who can give Hidayah (guidance) to anyone
whom He wants, or it may be for those who do not want to accept His teachings
is a sunnatullah (the will of God) as in His word.
|
|
JerryMyers
Groupie
Joined: 21 September 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 65
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Posted: 25 June 2018 at 7:00am |
Peace maker wrote:
Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time which he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.
The rest is not God's word a k a Allah.
The Quran is not the truth of Allah or any god, but it was only from Muhammad.
No Angel of God would dare to start a new religion after Jesus except the Satan. |
What makes you think Islam is a new religion ?? Can you prove the basic teaching of Jesus (or the prophets before him) are different from Islam ?? Did Jesus preach that God Almighty is a ‘3-in-1’ God ?? Did Jesus (or the prophets before him) preach the concept of original sin ?? If Jesus and none of the prophets before him ever preached a ‘3-in-1’ God nor did they preach the concept of original sin, then, it’s clear that whoever started Christianity was inspired by Satan whose main objective is to draw mankind away from God Almighty and in Christianity, Satan succeeded in doing just that as billions of Christians took Jesus Christ as their savior when they should turn to God Almighty as their only sole savior – “I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from Me there is no savior” – Isaiah 43:11
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Peace maker
Senior Member
Joined: 26 November 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 314
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Posted: 12 June 2018 at 1:38pm |
asep garut wrote:
Peace maker wrote:
[QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
|
Sorry,
I just can reply because of busyness in the month of Ramadan.
I
say once again that Prophet Muhammad was not the first inventor and founder of
Islam.
In
this case you must know and understand what is the meaning of the word Islam?
The
word 'Islam' is derived from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered
to Allah, and from the word "Salima" is to obtain salvation from
Allah. Thus Islam implies:
Submission
to Allah, and worship only to Allah in order to obtain salvation from Him.
And
those who practice Islamic sharia are called "Muslims"
From
the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who
invite his people to Allah and surrender only to Allah. (Quran 21:92)
“Truly!
This Tauheed religion (Islamic Monotheism) is the religion of your ummah
(followers), the one religion, and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me.”
Here
are some evidence that the Prophets were people who submitted to Allah
(Muslim):
Prophet Noah, he has invited his people to be
Muslims, (Quran 10:72)
“But if you turn away (from accepting my
doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah), then no reward
have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to
be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allah’s Will).”
Prophet Abraham and Prophet Jacob. (Quran
2:132)
“And this submission to Allah (Islam) was
enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) saying: ‘O my
sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the
Faith of Islam’.”
Prophet Ibrahim is known as the father of the
Prophets, automatically, his 'Tauheed' will also followed by the next Prophets.
Prophet Musa (Moses). (Quran 10:84)
“And Musa (Moses) said: ’O my people! If you
have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims’.”
Prophet Isa (Jesus). (Quran 5:72)
“....But the Messiah Isa (Jesus) said: ‘ O
Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Verily, whosoever
sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to
him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no
helpers’.”
In conclusion, all the Prophets are those who
submit to Allah and who are worshiped only Allah, means they are Muslims.
That's all my belief in the Qur'an, anyone can
have other opinion, therefore, one's faith should not be forced because only
Allah who has the “Hidayah" (Guidance).
My principle in religion is, firstly I must
understand the Quran to always follow the truth from Allah. (6:153)
“And verily, this Quran is My Straight Path,
so follow it, and follow not other paths, for there will separate you away from
His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the
pious).”
The Quran 39:9
“.....say: ‘Are those who know equal to
those who know not? verily, only those who have common sense are willing to
accept the lesson (get lesson from Allah’s Signs and Verses of the Quran).” So, Prophet Muhammad is not a liar.
|
Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time which he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans. The rest is not God's word a k a Allah. The Quran is not the truth of Allah or any god, but it was only from Muhammad. No Angel of God would dare to start a new religion after Jesus except the Satan.
|
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