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What Quran tells about Religion of Ibraham

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Topic: What Quran tells about Religion of Ibraham
Posted By: ajzhyder
Subject: What Quran tells about Religion of Ibraham
Date Posted: 20 April 2018 at 2:09pm
Religion of Ibrahim

Undoubtedly there are many religions in the world existing today and also a growing number of people not following any religion. What does Al-Quran say about following a religion and which one? We will see shortly in the light of Ayas/Signs of the Book.

The word for religion in Arabic is ‘Millat’. There is another word which is commonly understood to mean religion i.e ‘Din’. However, the context in which ‘Din’ is used in the Book is ‘judgment’ and not religion.

God instructs every one to follow the religion of Ibrahim in Ayat 95 of Sura 3 Ale Imran.

3:95: قُلْ صَدَقَ اللّهُ فَاتَّبِعُواْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Say. Allah speaks the Truth, so you all, follow the religion of Ibrahim, the true in faith; he was not of the Polytheists.”

Then God inspired the Messenger to follow the religion of Ibrahim in Aya 123 of Sura 16:

16:123ثُمَّ £َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ £َنِ اتَّبِعْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Then We inspired thee (Mohammad), Follow the religion of Abraham the True in Faith, and he was not from the Polytheists.”

The Messenger confirms that God has guided him to the straight path of the religion of Ibrahim in Ayat 161 of Sura 6 Al-Inam.

6:161

قُلْ إِنَّنِي هَدَانِي رَبِّي إِلَى صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ دِينًا قِيَمًا مِّلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Say : Surely my Lord has guided me to a straight path a judgment established; the Millat (Religion) of true IBRAHIM(Abraham) and he was not from the polytheists.”

Was this inspiration to follow the the religion of Ibrahim or any other order from the Lord, a new instruction for Messenger and people? or the same religion and practice was asked to be followed which was the religion and practice of all previous messengers? The following three Ayas will shed light on this question:

41:43

مَا يُقَالُ لَكَ إِلَّا مَا قَدْ قِيلَ لِلرُّسُلِ مِن قَبْلِكَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَذُو مَغْفِرَةٍ وَذُو عِقَابٍ £َلِيمٍ

“Nothing is said to You (Mohammad) that was not said to the Messengers before you: verily your Lord has at his Command (all) forgiveness as well as the most Grievous vengeance.”

46:9

قُلْ مَا كُنتُ بِدْعًا مِّنْ الرُّسُلِ وَمَا £َدْرِي مَا يُفْعَلُ بِي وَلَا بِكُمْ إِنْ £َتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَى إِلَيَّ وَمَا £َنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ مُّبِينٌ

“Say (O’ Mohammad) “I am no bringer of new doctrine among the Messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear.”

42:13

شَرَعَ لَكُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّى بِهِ نُوحًا وَالَّذِي £َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ وَمَا وَصَّيْنَا بِهِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمُوسَى وَعِيسَى £َنْ £َقِيمُوا الدِّينَ وَلَا تَتَفَرَّقُوا فِيهِ كَبُرَ عَلَى الْمُشْرِكِينَ مَا تَدْعُوهُمْ إِلَيْهِ اللَّهُ يَجْتَبِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يَشَاء وَيَهْدِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يُنِيبُ

“The same Shariat/Way has He established for you all which He enjoined on Nooh ( Noah) – that  We have sent by inspiration to you (Mohammad) – and that which We enjoined on Ibrahim ( Abraham), Moosa ( Moses), and Essa (Jesus):  that you should remain steadfast in Din/Judgement, and make no differentiations therein: to those who join others with Allah, hard is the (way) to which you call them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).”

After you have made it your judgement to adopt the religion of Ibrahim, God names you ‘Muslim’ as stated Aya 78 of Sura Haj

22:78

وَجَاهِدُوا فِي اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ £َبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاء عَلَى النَّاسِ فَ£َقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَوْلَاكُمْ فَنِعْمَ الْمَوْلَى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ

“And you strive in Allah as is the right of striving in Him. He has chosen you and He has made no difficulty over you in the Din/Judgment ; The religion of your Father Ibraheem. And He has named you muslim from before and in this, so the Messenger (Rasool) be a witness over you and you be a witness over mankind. Then establish Salat/Prayer and give justification (zakah) and hold fast with Allah. He is your Protector (Maula) so He is the blessed Protector and the blessed Helper”

 
 



Replies:
Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 27 April 2018 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by ajzhyder ajzhyder wrote:

Religion of Ibrahim

Undoubtedly there are many religions in the world existing today and also a growing number of people not following any religion. What does Al-Quran say about following a religion and which one? We will see shortly in the light of Ayas/Signs of the Book.

The word for religion in Arabic is ‘Millat’. There is another word which is commonly understood to mean religion i.e ‘Din’. However, the context in which ‘Din’ is used in the Book is ‘judgment’ and not religion.

God instructs every one to follow the religion of Ibrahim in Ayat 95 of Sura 3 Ale Imran.

3:95: قُلْ صَدَقَ اللّهُ فَاتَّبِعُواْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Say. Allah speaks the Truth, so you all, follow the religion of Ibrahim, the true in faith; he was not of the Polytheists.”

Then God inspired the Messenger to follow the religion of Ibrahim in Aya 123 of Sura 16:

16:123ثُمَّ �£َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ �£َنِ اتَّبِعْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Then We inspired thee (Mohammad), Follow the religion of Abraham the True in Faith, and he was not from the Polytheists.”

The Messenger confirms that God has guided him to the straight path of the religion of Ibrahim in Ayat 161 of Sura 6 Al-Inam.

6:161

قُلْ إِنَّنِي هَدَانِي رَبِّي إِلَى صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ دِينًا قِيَمًا مِّلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Say : Surely my Lord has guided me to a straight path a judgment established; the Millat (Religion) of true IBRAHIM(Abraham) and he was not from the polytheists.”

Was this inspiration to follow the the religion of Ibrahim or any other order from the Lord, a new instruction for Messenger and people? or the same religion and practice was asked to be followed which was the religion and practice of all previous messengers? The following three Ayas will shed light on this question:

41:43

مَا يُقَالُ لَكَ إِلَّا مَا قَدْ قِيلَ لِلرُّسُلِ مِن قَبْلِكَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَذُو مَغْفِرَةٍ وَذُو عِقَابٍ �£َلِيمٍ

“Nothing is said to You (Mohammad) that was not said to the Messengers before you: verily your Lord has at his Command (all) forgiveness as well as the most Grievous vengeance.”

46:9

قُلْ مَا كُنتُ بِدْعًا مِّنْ الرُّسُلِ وَمَا �£َدْرِي مَا يُفْعَلُ بِي وَلَا بِكُمْ إِنْ �£َتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَى إِلَيَّ وَمَا �£َنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ مُّبِينٌ

“Say (O’ Mohammad) “I am no bringer of new doctrine among the Messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear.”

42:13

شَرَعَ لَكُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّى بِهِ نُوحًا وَالَّذِي �£َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ وَمَا وَصَّيْنَا بِهِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمُوسَى وَعِيسَى �£َنْ �£َقِيمُوا الدِّينَ وَلَا تَتَفَرَّقُوا فِيهِ كَبُرَ عَلَى الْمُشْرِكِينَ مَا تَدْعُوهُمْ إِلَيْهِ اللَّهُ يَجْتَبِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يَشَاء وَيَهْدِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يُنِيبُ

“The same Shariat/Way has He established for you all which He enjoined on Nooh ( Noah) – that  We have sent by inspiration to you (Mohammad) – and that which We enjoined on Ibrahim ( Abraham), Moosa ( Moses), and Essa (Jesus):  that you should remain steadfast in Din/Judgement, and make no differentiations therein: to those who join others with Allah, hard is the (way) to which you call them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).”

After you have made it your judgement to adopt the religion of Ibrahim, God names you ‘Muslim’ as stated Aya 78 of Sura Haj

22:78

وَجَاهِدُوا فِي اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ �£َبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاء عَلَى النَّاسِ فَ�£َقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَوْلَاكُمْ فَنِعْمَ الْمَوْلَى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ

“And you strive in Allah as is the right of striving in Him. He has chosen you and He has made no difficulty over you in the Din/Judgment ; The religion of your Father Ibraheem. And He has named you muslim from before and in this, so the Messenger (Rasool) be a witness over you and you be a witness over mankind. Then establish Salat/Prayer and give justification (zakah) and hold fast with Allah. He is your Protector (Maula) so He is the blessed Protector and the blessed Helper”

 
 
 
Can you define this for me.
 
“Nothing is said to You (Mohammad) that was not said to the Messengers before you: verily your Lord has at his Command (all) forgiveness as well as the most Grievous vengeance.”
 
I am happy to see that we worshipped the same God.


Posted By: ajzhyder
Date Posted: 28 April 2018 at 4:49am
It means that all Messengers of God bring the exact same message from God. God does not give any messenger a different message or a different book.
 
People after they get some knowledge start differing with each other and form different groups. Each group adheres to some concepts and make their own books and they take great pride in what they have
https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2017/03/03/groups-sects/" rel="nofollow - https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2017/03/03/groups-sects/
 
Interesting reading on what is meant by the term 'Ahlal Kitab' in the Book in below post:
https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2017/03/26/who-are-ahlal-kitab/" rel="nofollow - https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2017/03/26/who-are-ahlal-kitab/
 


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 28 April 2018 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by ajzhyder ajzhyder wrote:

Religion of Ibrahim

Undoubtedly there are many religions in the world existing today and also a growing number of people not following any religion. What does Al-Quran say about following a religion and which one? We will see shortly in the light of Ayas/Signs of the Book.

The word for religion in Arabic is ‘Millat’. There is another word which is commonly understood to mean religion i.e ‘Din’. However, the context in which ‘Din’ is used in the Book is ‘judgment’ and not religion.

God instructs every one to follow the religion of Ibrahim in Ayat 95 of Sura 3 Ale Imran.

3:95: قُلْ صَدَقَ اللّهُ فَاتَّبِعُواْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Say. Allah speaks the Truth, so you all, follow the religion of Ibrahim, the true in faith; he was not of the Polytheists.”

Then God inspired the Messenger to follow the religion of Ibrahim in Aya 123 of Sura 16:

16:123ثُمَّ �£َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ �£َنِ اتَّبِعْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Then We inspired thee (Mohammad), Follow the religion of Abraham the True in Faith, and he was not from the Polytheists.”

The Messenger confirms that God has guided him to the straight path of the religion of Ibrahim in Ayat 161 of Sura 6 Al-Inam.

6:161

قُلْ إِنَّنِي هَدَانِي رَبِّي إِلَى صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ دِينًا قِيَمًا مِّلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Say : Surely my Lord has guided me to a straight path a judgment established; the Millat (Religion) of true IBRAHIM(Abraham) and he was not from the polytheists.”

Was this inspiration to follow the the religion of Ibrahim or any other order from the Lord, a new instruction for Messenger and people? or the same religion and practice was asked to be followed which was the religion and practice of all previous messengers? The following three Ayas will shed light on this question:

41:43

مَا يُقَالُ لَكَ إِلَّا مَا قَدْ قِيلَ لِلرُّسُلِ مِن قَبْلِكَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَذُو مَغْفِرَةٍ وَذُو عِقَابٍ �£َلِيمٍ

“Nothing is said to You (Mohammad) that was not said to the Messengers before you: verily your Lord has at his Command (all) forgiveness as well as the most Grievous vengeance.”

46:9

قُلْ مَا كُنتُ بِدْعًا مِّنْ الرُّسُلِ وَمَا �£َدْرِي مَا يُفْعَلُ بِي وَلَا بِكُمْ إِنْ �£َتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَى إِلَيَّ وَمَا �£َنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ مُّبِينٌ

“Say (O’ Mohammad) “I am no bringer of new doctrine among the Messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear.”

42:13

شَرَعَ لَكُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّى بِهِ نُوحًا وَالَّذِي �£َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ وَمَا وَصَّيْنَا بِهِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمُوسَى وَعِيسَى �£َنْ �£َقِيمُوا الدِّينَ وَلَا تَتَفَرَّقُوا فِيهِ كَبُرَ عَلَى الْمُشْرِكِينَ مَا تَدْعُوهُمْ إِلَيْهِ اللَّهُ يَجْتَبِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يَشَاء وَيَهْدِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يُنِيبُ

“The same Shariat/Way has He established for you all which He enjoined on Nooh ( Noah) – that  We have sent by inspiration to you (Mohammad) – and that which We enjoined on Ibrahim ( Abraham), Moosa ( Moses), and Essa (Jesus):  that you should remain steadfast in Din/Judgement, and make no differentiations therein: to those who join others with Allah, hard is the (way) to which you call them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).”

After you have made it your judgement to adopt the religion of Ibrahim, God names you ‘Muslim’ as stated Aya 78 of Sura Haj

22:78

وَجَاهِدُوا فِي اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ �£َبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاء عَلَى النَّاسِ فَ�£َقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَوْلَاكُمْ فَنِعْمَ الْمَوْلَى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ

“And you strive in Allah as is the right of striving in Him. He has chosen you and He has made no difficulty over you in the Din/Judgment ; The religion of your Father Ibraheem. And He has named you muslim from before and in this, so the Messenger (Rasool) be a witness over you and you be a witness over mankind. Then establish Salat/Prayer and give justification (zakah) and hold fast with Allah. He is your Protector (Maula) so He is the blessed Protector and the blessed Helper”

 
 
 
Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 30 April 2018 at 5:25am
According to the bible Abram's priest/king/prophet was Melchizedek. Part of Jesus' purpose was establishing Jesus as the new priest/prophet/king in the Order of Melchizedek.

There is extensive speculation about this, but the only safe conclusion is that the bible states there was a true religion prior to Abraham and Mosaic Hebrewism.

-------------
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: JerryMyers
Date Posted: 30 April 2018 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


You are right – there’s no such thing as ‘a religion’ or ‘a Muslim’ or ‘a Christian’ in the time of Abraham or Jesus – what they had was a relationship with God.

However, Islam by definition means submission to the Will of God and a Muslim is one who do and submit to the Will of God. In other words, the name does not define who you are, BUT, the action does. So when Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 7:21, he’s actually saying only the Muslims (those who do the Will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Did Abraham and Jesus do and submit themselves to the Will of God ? Yes, they did, so, by definition, they are Muslims.




Posted By: ajzhyder
Date Posted: 30 April 2018 at 8:48pm
Thanks for the good inputs.
However, a question comes to mind that, why God would send different prophets with different religions. Shouldn't God's intended message to mankind remain the same through-out? Is it possible that God sent all messengers with one intended message, but after a Messenger left the world, the villains of religions, hid the real message and put forth a distorted form of the real teachings.
 
I came to understand certain terms used in Quran which are conceived otherwise by many people.
E.g Al-Islam means the Peace. The word 'Al-Islam' is not used as religion in Quran but means 'the Peace'. Quran asks it followers to follow the religion of Abraham. As for their judgment/decisions it asks them to follow Al-Islam/The Peace.  (Ironically many of the people who label themselves 'Muslim', think highly of holy wars. This is mainly due to the fact that what is taught to them mostly is out of Quran)
 
Similarly Muslims are not meant as followers of religion of Islam, but actually means 'Submitters' to the orders of Allah.
 
Deen/Din means Judgment in Quran.
The word for religion is 'Millat' in Arabic.
 
So this statement in Quran ' When Allah orders that the Judgment (Din) in the nearness of Allah is Al-Islam, it should mean that when confronted with any situation in life, one should always take that decision which leads to peace and security.
Although it is commonly understood to mean that Religion in the nearness of Allah is Islam.
 

Quran mentions several groups of people with certain names or labels, such as Muslims, Jews, Christians, etc. When Al-Kitab introduces these labels it also gives behaviors and character traits of these people. A very important point to understand is that when Al-Kitab mentions for example 'Jews' it means those people who act according to traits given in Quran for Jews, and not by what the world calls them or not by what label they put on themselves.

And when Al-Kitab mentions 'Muslims', then those people who match the character traits of 'Muslims' in Al-Kitab are meant.  The labels that people put on themselves don't matter. If some people call and label themselves as 'Muslims', however, their actions actually match the traits of 'Jews' given in the Book, then they are actually 'Jews' in the eyes of the Lord. Vice Versa, if some people call and label themselves as 'Jews', however they do not match the characteristics of 'Jews' in the Book, they are not 'Jews' in the eyes of the Lord.

It may not be that a particular group exhibits characteristics of a trait all the time. It would seem more likely that in every community wether as a whole this community be labeled as Muslim, Jew or Christian, there would be some people within each community behaving like Muslims, Jews and Christians, Hypocrites and Momin/Believers etc.



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 03 May 2018 at 8:12am
Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


You are right – there’s no such thing as ‘a religion’ or ‘a Muslim’ or ‘a Christian’ in the time of Abraham or Jesus – what they had was a relationship with God.

However, Islam by definition means submission to the Will of God and a Muslim is one who do and submit to the Will of God. In other words, the name does not define who you are, BUT, the action does. So when Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 7:21, he’s actually saying only the Muslims (those who do the Will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Did Abraham and Jesus do and submit themselves to the Will of God ? Yes, they did, so, by definition, they are Muslims.


 
Well then Muhammad didn't hear that Christians,Jews.Nabteans and Sabaens said to him that were already muslims.


Posted By: ajzhyder
Date Posted: 03 May 2018 at 7:02pm
Not withstanding what labels they put on themselves, when the hear the truth they would say that we believe in it and have already been submitter to Allah's will
 
28:53  وَإِذَا يُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِمْ قَالُوا آمَنَّا بِهِ إِنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّنَا إِنَّا كُنَّا مِن قَبْلِهِ مُسْلِمِينَ
 
28:53  And when it is recited to them, they say. "We believe therein, for it is the Truth from our Lord. indeed we have been Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will) from before this.
 
3:52  فَلَمَّا £َحَسَّ عِيسَىٰ مِنْهُمُ الْكُفْرَ قَالَ مَنْ £َنصَارِي إِلَى اللَّهِ ۖ قَالَ الْحَوَارِيُّونَ نَحْنُ £َنصَارُ اللَّهِ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَاشْهَدْ بِ£َنَّا مُسْلِمُونَ
3:52  When ESSA(Jesus) realized unbelief on their part he said "who will be my helpers to God". Said the companions (disciples). "we are God`s helpers. We believe In God, and you bear witness that we are MUSLIMS(submitters)".
 
3:84  Say we believe in Allah and what is revealed on us and what was revealed on Ibraheem and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoob and tribes and what was given to Moosa, Essa and the prophets is from their Lord. We do not make distinction between anyone from it and for Him we are Muslims / submitters.


Posted By: JerryMyers
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 7:32am
Originally posted by ajzhyder ajzhyder wrote:

Thanks for the good inputs.
However, a question comes to mind that, why God would send different prophets with different religions. Shouldn't God's intended mes-sage to mankind remain the same through-out? Is it possible that God sent all messengers with one intended message, but after a Messenger left the world, the villains of religions, hid the real message and put forth a distorted form of the real teachings.


Well, God DID NOT send different prophets with different religions. All prophets carried the same basic fundamental message from Him – the Lord, your God, is ONE and submit to His Will.

Religions originated from man’s differing understanding of who God is. It’s like the story of the six blind men and the elephant – one said the elephant is like a wall because he was touching the body of the elephant, the other one said the elephant is like a leaf because he was touching the ear of the elephant, still the other one said the elephant is like a rope because he was holding the tail of the elephant and so on and yet, these 6 blind men are describing the one and same elephant. Only those who are not blind can see the true description of the elephant. Likewise, only those who are ‘not blind’ can truly ‘see’ the teachings of the prophets and understand who God is and what He expects out of us.


Posted By: JerryMyers
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 7:36am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


You are right – there’s no such thing as ‘a religion’ or ‘a Muslim’ or ‘a Christian’ in the time of Abraham or Jesus – what they had was a relationship with God.

However, Islam by definition means submission to the Will of God and a Muslim is one who do and submit to the Will of God. In other words, the name does not define who you are, BUT, the action does. So when Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 7:21, he’s actually saying only the Muslims (those who do the Will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Did Abraham and Jesus do and submit themselves to the Will of God ? Yes, they did, so, by definition, they are Muslims.


 
Well then Muhammad didn't hear that Christians,Jews.Nabteans and Sabaens said to him that were already muslims.


He don't have to hear from them – he knows those who believe in the true oneness of God and do/submit to the Will of God are Muslims.


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 10:21am
Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by ajzhyder ajzhyder wrote:

Thanks for the good inputs.
However, a question comes to mind that, why God would send different prophets with different religions. Shouldn't God's intended mes-sage to mankind remain the same through-out? Is it possible that God sent all messengers with one intended message, but after a Messenger left the world, the villains of religions, hid the real message and put forth a distorted form of the real teachings.


Well, God DID NOT send different prophets with different religions. All prophets carried the same basic fundamental message from Him – the Lord, your God, is ONE and submit to His Will.

Religions originated from man’s differing understanding of who God is. It’s like the story of the six blind men and the elephant – one said the elephant is like a wall because he was touching the body of the elephant, the other one said the elephant is like a leaf because he was touching the ear of the elephant, still the other one said the elephant is like a rope because he was holding the tail of the elephant and so on and yet, these 6 blind men are describing the one and same elephant. Only those who are not blind can see the true description of the elephant. Likewise, only those who are ‘not blind’ can truly ‘see’ the teachings of the prophets and understand who God is and what He expects out of us.


Do you consider the Aztec religion to be along the same lines as your religion at all?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_religion

Quote The Aztec religion is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_religion" rel="nofollow - Mesoamerican religion of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec" rel="nofollow - Aztecs . Like other Mesoamerican religions, it had elements of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice" rel="nofollow - human sacrifice in connection with a large number of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_festival" rel="nofollow - religious festivals which were held according to patterns of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_calendar" rel="nofollow - Aztec calendar . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheistic" rel="nofollow - Polytheistic in its https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology" rel="nofollow - theology , the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion" rel="nofollow - religion recognized a large and ever increasing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheon_%28gods%29" rel="nofollow - pantheon of gods and goddesses; the Aztecs would often incorporate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity" rel="nofollow - deities whose cults came from other geographic regions or peoples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism" rel="nofollow - into their own religious practice .


Posted By: ajzhyder
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 8:45pm
https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2018/05/04/recognize-groups-by-their-behaviors-not-by-their-labels/The%20link%20to%20above%20article%20reviews%20the%20character%20traits%20of%20different%20groups%20by%20their%20behaviors%20as defined%20in%20Quran%20and%20not%20by%20their%20birth%20and%20not%20by%20the%20labels%20they%20put%20on%20themselves.%20Those%20people%20who%20are%20Jews%20according%20Quran,%20are%20those who%20exhibit%20the%20behavior%20of%20Jews%20as%20defined%20in%20Quran.%20 " rel="nofollow - https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2018/05/04/recognize-groups-by-their-behaviors-not-by-their-labels/


Posted By: Al Masihi
Date Posted: 05 May 2018 at 1:17am
Oneness of God is alright, but which god, even pagans can be monotheistic doesn’t necessarily make it right. Muslims do not follow the God of Abraham, Muslims by definition submit to the will of Allah (an Arab god of Pagan origins) and to his prophet Mohammed. Please tell me where any of the prophets described the word Islam which transcribes to the Hebrew word האסלאם. Anyone can claim to submit to any god, by that definition Mani and Bahá'u'lláh are also Islamic prophets.


Posted By: ajzhyder
Date Posted: 06 May 2018 at 9:19am

God is the creator of the Universe and the sustainer of it. The God who Muslims serve, is definitely the God of Abraham. Had it not been so, in Quran, God would not have named His religion, ‘the religion of Abraham’. See link to post on below site:

https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com

In Quran, we come to know about the God who created the Heavens and Earth and He put every thing in there for sustenance of his creations. He sent His Prophets along with His Book for the guidance of mankind. He sent Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron, Zakariya, John, Jesus and Elias, Isma'il , Elisha, Jonas, and Lot and others. (6:81-88). Those people who received the message of God and understood it, will be judged by Him and will be held accountable for their deeds in the world.

There could be a lot of difference between perception and reality about God and Mohammad. If we assume that Quran was written by Mohammad instead of being revealed from God , then main purpose of Mohammad should have been to obtain glory for himself by pretending a prophet of God. However, we find in reading the Quran that the focus is on God alone, not on Mohammad. Mohammad is mentioned even far less times in Quran than other messengers e.g Mooses, Abraham and Jesus. Name of Mohammad is mentioned only a miniscule amount of time. Had Mohammad been the personality type that the people believe him to be and he be after false glory, he would have mentioned himself the most in Quran. Instead we find word Mohammad mentioned only 4 times in Quran and word Ahmed as 1 time.



Posted By: JerryMyers
Date Posted: 06 May 2018 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Oneness of God is alright, but which god, even pagans can be monotheistic doesn’t necessarily make it right.


Pagans are not monotheistic, pagans are polytheistic.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Muslims do not follow the God of Abraham, Muslims by definition submit to the will of Allah (an Arab god of Pagan origins) and to his prophet Mohammed.


Muslims do not submit to the will of the Prophet, Muslims only submit to the Will of God Almighty. In contrast, altho’ they may not admit it, Christians do not submit to the Will of God but, they submit to the will of Jesus Christ whom they claim to be equal to God Himself.

I suggest you stop reading anti-Islamic materials and read the Quran instead to understand Islam, just as I would advise anyone to read the Bible to understand Christianity. Before accusing other faiths of paganism, you should google your own Christianity faith relationship with paganism first.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Please tell me where any of the prophets described the word Islam which transcribes to the Hebrew word האסלאם.


As I have said, the word or the name is not important, but, what the word or name represent does. Again, by definition, Islam means total submission to the Will of God Almighty and a Muslim, by definition, is one who do and submit to the Will of God. The terms 'Islam' and 'Muslim' might not have existed in the times of Jesus, but do you think Jesus did not do and submit to the Will of God ??

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Anyone can claim to submit to any god, by that definition Mani and Bahá'u'lláh are also Islamic prophets.


Mani and Bahá'u'lláh are NOT Islamic prophets. Again, you should read the Quran first before making such statements. Do you even understand what true Oneness of God means ?? I can tell you now, a ‘3-in-1’ God IS NOT the definition of true Oneness of God.


Posted By: Al Masihi
Date Posted: 06 May 2018 at 11:01pm
Wrong Zoroastrianism is considered Monotheistic so is Hinduism in a way, yet all are pagan religions. Yeah I’ve researched all Islamic claims of Christianity habeing pagan roots in my days as a Muslim, I challenge you to bring me proofs of paganism that I cannot refute. Baha’i and Mani submitted to the will to Hod weren’t they Muslims? Islam doesn’t mean total submission to God, the only way to actually enter Islam is not to just swear God is one, but also swear mohammed is his prophet. To enter Islam you cannot just swear God is one without swearing Mohammed’s prophethood. Not to mention you mention his name in every prayer and have to continuously say peace be upon him when ever his name is mentioned. Jesus did the will of the God the Father not a pagan god of Arabia. On the contrary the name matters since all the prophets were Muslims, I’ll now ask for historical proof that Islam isn’t just Judeo-Christian mythology mixed with pagan practices and Zoroastrian theology, also the Quran mentions the prophets were Muslims and said la ilah ila Allah and were Muslims, the website of Osama Abdullah also says the prophets preached in Arabic. Can you give me verses in the Bible where the prophets were saying la ilah ila Allah wa Mohammed rasul Allah in those clear words, since your saying they were Muslims and Muslims usually always say these words, and your talking about the prophets so if this is what they were preaching then why is there no mention of it until an Arab pagan comes way after and claims prophethood?


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 07 May 2018 at 11:12am
Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


You are right – there’s no such thing as ‘a religion’ or ‘a Muslim’ or ‘a Christian’ in the time of Abraham or Jesus – what they had was a relationship with God.

However, Islam by definition means submission to the Will of God and a Muslim is one who do and submit to the Will of God. In other words, the name does not define who you are, BUT, the action does. So when Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 7:21, he’s actually saying only the Muslims (those who do the Will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Did Abraham and Jesus do and submit themselves to the Will of God ? Yes, they did, so, by definition, they are Muslims.


 
Well then Muhammad didn't hear that Christians,Jews.Nabteans and Sabaens said to him that were already muslims.


He don't have to hear from them – he knows those who believe in the true oneness of God and do/submit to the Will of God are Muslims.
 
I thought Muhammad was thee founder of islam sorry.


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


You are right – there’s no such thing as ‘a religion’ or ‘a Muslim’ or ‘a Christian’ in the time of Abraham or Jesus – what they had was a relationship with God.

However, Islam by definition means submission to the Will of God and a Muslim is one who do and submit to the Will of God. In other words, the name does not define who you are, BUT, the action does. So when Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 7:21, he’s actually saying only the Muslims (those who do the Will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Did Abraham and Jesus do and submit themselves to the Will of God ? Yes, they did, so, by definition, they are Muslims.


 
Well then Muhammad didn't hear that Christians,Jews.Nabteans and Sabaens said to him that were already muslims.


He don't have to hear from them – he knows those who believe in the true oneness of God and do/submit to the Will of God are Muslims.
 
I thought Muhammad was thee founder of islam sorry.

Prophet Muhammad is not the founder of Islam, but he is the recipient of the teachings of Islam (the Tawheed religion) ie worship only to one God, just as the religion was given to all Prophets before.

 إِنَّ هٰذِهِۦٓ £ُمَّتُكُمْ £ُمَّةً وٰحِدَةً وَ£َنَا۠ رَبُّكُمْ فَاعْبُدُونِ ﴿ال£نبياء:٩٢

“Verily, this Tauheed religion is one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me (Alone). – (Al Anbiya 21:92)

 وَمَآ £َرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا نُوحِىٓ إِلَيْهِ £َنَّهُۥ لَآ إِلٰهَ إِلَّآ £َنَا۠ فَاعْبُدُونِ ﴿ال£نبياء:٢٥

“And We did not send any Messenger before you (O Muhammad), but We revealed to him: La ilaha illa ana (none has the right to be worshipped but I (Allah), so worship Me (Alone and none else).” (Al Anbiya 21:25)

The word 'Islam' comes from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered to Allah, and from the word Salima "that is to obtain salvation from Allah. Thus Islam implies surrender to Allah, and who is worshiped only Allah in order to obtain salvation, both in the world and in the hereafter. And those who practice Islam are called Muslims or people of Islam. Here is some evidence that the Prophets were Muslims:

Prophet Ibrahim and Prophet Ya'qub.

 وَوَصَّىٰ بِهَآ إِبْرٰهِيْمُ بَنِيهِ وَيَعْقُوبُ يٰبَنِىَّ إِنَّ اللهَ اصْطَفَىٰ لَكُمُ الدِّينَ فَلَا تَمُوتُنَّ إِلَّا وَ£َنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ :١£٢

“And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) (saying: ‘O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam.” (Al Baqarah 2:132)

Prophet Noah has asked his people to become Muslims, here is the authentic proof.

 فَإِن تَوَلَّيْتُمْ فَمَا سَ£َلْتُكُم مِّنْ £َجْرٍ ۖ إِنْ £َجْرِىَ إِلَّا عَلَى اللهِ ۖ وَ£ُمِرْتُ £َنْ £َكُونَ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ ﴿يونس:٧٢

“But if you turn away from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims.” (Yunus 10:72)

Prophet Moses:

 وَقَالَ مُوسَىٰ يٰقَوْمِ إِن كُنتُمْ ءَامَنتُم بِاللهِ فَعَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلُوٓا۟ إِن كُنتُم مُّسْلِمِينَ ﴿يونس:٨٤

“And Moses said: O my people! If you have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims.”

(Yunus 10:84)

Prophet Isa (Jesus):

 وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يٰبَنِىٓ إِسْرٰٓءِيلَ اعْبُدُوا۟ اللهَ رَبِّى وَرَبَّكُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُۥ مَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللهُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَ£ْوَىٰهُ النَّارُ ۖ وَمَا لِلظّٰلِمِينَ مِنْ £َنصَارٍ ﴿المائدة:٧٢

“And Jesus said: ‘O Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, the Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no helpers.” (Al Maidah 5:72)



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 01 June 2018 at 5:32am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


You are right – there’s no such thing as ‘a religion’ or ‘a Muslim’ or ‘a Christian’ in the time of Abraham or Jesus – what they had was a relationship with God.

However, Islam by definition means submission to the Will of God and a Muslim is one who do and submit to the Will of God. In other words, the name does not define who you are, BUT, the action does. So when Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 7:21, he’s actually saying only the Muslims (those who do the Will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Did Abraham and Jesus do and submit themselves to the Will of God ? Yes, they did, so, by definition, they are Muslims.


 
Well then Muhammad didn't hear that Christians,Jews.Nabteans and Sabaens said to him that were already muslims.


He don't have to hear from them – he knows those who believe in the true oneness of God and do/submit to the Will of God are Muslims.
 
I thought Muhammad was thee founder of islam sorry.

Prophet Muhammad is not the founder of Islam, but he is the recipient of the teachings of Islam (the Tawheed religion) ie worship only to one God, just as the religion was given to all Prophets before.

 إِنَّ هٰذِهِۦٓ �£ُمَّتُكُمْ �£ُمَّةً وٰحِدَةً وَ�£َنَا۠ رَبُّكُمْ فَاعْبُدُونِ ﴿ال�£نبياء:٩٢

“Verily, this Tauheed religion is one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me (Alone). – (Al Anbiya 21:92)

 وَمَآ �£َرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا نُوحِىٓ إِلَيْهِ �£َنَّهُۥ لَآ إِلٰهَ إِلَّآ �£َنَا۠ فَاعْبُدُونِ ﴿ال�£نبياء:٢٥

“And We did not send any Messenger before you (O Muhammad), but We revealed to him: La ilaha illa ana (none has the right to be worshipped but I (Allah), so worship Me (Alone and none else).” (Al Anbiya 21:25)

The word 'Islam' comes from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered to Allah, and from the word Salima "that is to obtain salvation from Allah. Thus Islam implies surrender to Allah, and who is worshiped only Allah in order to obtain salvation, both in the world and in the hereafter. And those who practice Islam are called Muslims or people of Islam. Here is some evidence that the Prophets were Muslims:

Prophet Ibrahim and Prophet Ya'qub.

 وَوَصَّىٰ بِهَآ إِبْرٰهِيْمُ بَنِيهِ وَيَعْقُوبُ يٰبَنِىَّ إِنَّ اللهَ اصْطَفَىٰ لَكُمُ الدِّينَ فَلَا تَمُوتُنَّ إِلَّا وَ�£َنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ :١�£٢

“And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) (saying: ‘O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam.” (Al Baqarah 2:132)

Prophet Noah has asked his people to become Muslims, here is the authentic proof.

 فَإِن تَوَلَّيْتُمْ فَمَا سَ�£َلْتُكُم مِّنْ �£َجْرٍ ۖ إِنْ �£َجْرِىَ إِلَّا عَلَى اللهِ ۖ وَ�£ُمِرْتُ �£َنْ �£َكُونَ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ ﴿يونس:٧٢

“But if you turn away from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims.” (Yunus 10:72)

Prophet Moses:

 وَقَالَ مُوسَىٰ يٰقَوْمِ إِن كُنتُمْ ءَامَنتُم بِاللهِ فَعَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلُوٓا۟ إِن كُنتُم مُّسْلِمِينَ ﴿يونس:٨٤

“And Moses said: O my people! If you have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims.”

(Yunus 10:84)

Prophet Isa (Jesus):

 وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يٰبَنِىٓ إِسْرٰٓءِيلَ اعْبُدُوا۟ اللهَ رَبِّى وَرَبَّكُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُۥ مَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللهُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَ�£ْوَىٰهُ النَّارُ ۖ وَمَا لِلظّٰلِمِينَ مِنْ �£َنصَارٍ ﴿المائدة:٧٢

“And Jesus said: ‘O Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, the Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no helpers.” (Al Maidah 5:72)

You said
Prophet Muhammad is not the founder of Islam, but he is the recipient of the teachings of Islam (the Tawheed religion) ie worship only to one God, just as the religion was given to all Prophets before.
 
Who was then the first muslim or first muslim Prophet if Muhammad wasn't the founder of Islam.
Was Adam the first muslim?
 
According to several passages in the Quran, Muhammad was the first Muslim.
 

Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. S. 6:14 Pickthall

Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion. This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale

He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163

This is contradicted by both the Quran and various Islamic traditions which refer to the presence of true believers both before and during Muhammad’s alleged "call" to prophethood. The Quran mentions that Adam, Noah, the Patriarchs, the twelve tribes of Israel, Moses, Jesus etc., were all believers and many of them even messengers who lived a long time before Muhammad:
 


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 10 June 2018 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

[QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 

Sorry, I just can reply because of busyness in the month of Ramadan.

I say once again that Prophet Muhammad was not the first inventor and founder of Islam.

In this case you must know and understand what is the meaning of the word Islam?

The word 'Islam' is derived from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered to Allah, and from the word "Salima" is to obtain salvation from Allah. Thus Islam implies:

Submission to Allah, and worship only to Allah in order to obtain salvation from Him.

And those who practice Islamic sharia are called "Muslims"

From the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who invite his people to Allah and surrender only to Allah. (Quran 21:92)

Truly! This Tauheed religion (Islamic Monotheism) is the religion of your ummah (followers), the one religion, and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me.”

Here are some evidence that the Prophets were people who submitted to Allah (Muslim):

Prophet Noah, he has invited his people to be Muslims, (Quran 10:72)

“But if you turn away (from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah), then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allah’s Will).”

Prophet Abraham and Prophet Jacob. (Quran 2:132)

And this submission to Allah (Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) saying: ‘O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam’.”

Prophet Ibrahim is known as the father of the Prophets, automatically, his 'Tauheed' will also followed by the next Prophets.

Prophet Musa (Moses). (Quran 10:84)

“And Musa (Moses) said: ’O my people! If you have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims’.”

Prophet Isa (Jesus). (Quran 5:72)

“....But the Messiah Isa (Jesus) said: ‘ O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no helpers’.”

In conclusion, all the Prophets are those who submit to Allah and who are worshiped only Allah, means they are Muslims.

That's all my belief in the Qur'an, anyone can have other opinion, therefore, one's faith should not be forced because only Allah who has the “Hidayah" (Guidance).

My principle in religion is, firstly I must understand the Quran to always follow the truth from Allah. (6:153)

“And verily, this Quran is My Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not other paths, for there will separate you away from His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious).”

The Quran 39:9

“.....say: ‘Are those who know equal to those who know not? verily, only those who have common sense are willing to accept the lesson (get lesson from Allah’s Signs and Verses of the Quran).”

So, Prophet Muhammad is not a liar.




Posted By: ajzhyder
Date Posted: 10 June 2018 at 8:38pm
Allah ask Mohammad to say :
 
46:9  Say (O' Mohammad) "I am no bringer of new doctrine among the Messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."
 
When the Ayats/signs of God,  comes to one and he believes and submits to them without hesitation, then he becomes the first to submit/become muslim to these Ayas/signs and this process keeps on repeating in all times.
 


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 12 June 2018 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

[QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 

Sorry, I just can reply because of busyness in the month of Ramadan.

I say once again that Prophet Muhammad was not the first inventor and founder of Islam.

In this case you must know and understand what is the meaning of the word Islam?

The word 'Islam' is derived from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered to Allah, and from the word "Salima" is to obtain salvation from Allah. Thus Islam implies:

Submission to Allah, and worship only to Allah in order to obtain salvation from Him.

And those who practice Islamic sharia are called "Muslims"

From the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who invite his people to Allah and surrender only to Allah. (Quran 21:92)

Truly! This Tauheed religion (Islamic Monotheism) is the religion of your ummah (followers), the one religion, and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me.”

Here are some evidence that the Prophets were people who submitted to Allah (Muslim):

Prophet Noah, he has invited his people to be Muslims, (Quran 10:72)

“But if you turn away (from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah), then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allah’s Will).”

Prophet Abraham and Prophet Jacob. (Quran 2:132)

And this submission to Allah (Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) saying: ‘O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam’.”

Prophet Ibrahim is known as the father of the Prophets, automatically, his 'Tauheed' will also followed by the next Prophets.

Prophet Musa (Moses). (Quran 10:84)

“And Musa (Moses) said: ’O my people! If you have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims’.”

Prophet Isa (Jesus). (Quran 5:72)

“....But the Messiah Isa (Jesus) said: ‘ O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no helpers’.”

In conclusion, all the Prophets are those who submit to Allah and who are worshiped only Allah, means they are Muslims.

That's all my belief in the Qur'an, anyone can have other opinion, therefore, one's faith should not be forced because only Allah who has the “Hidayah" (Guidance).

My principle in religion is, firstly I must understand the Quran to always follow the truth from Allah. (6:153)

“And verily, this Quran is My Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not other paths, for there will separate you away from His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious).”

The Quran 39:9

“.....say: ‘Are those who know equal to those who know not? verily, only those who have common sense are willing to accept the lesson (get lesson from Allah’s Signs and Verses of the Quran).”

So, Prophet Muhammad is not a liar.


 
Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time which he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.
The rest is not God's word a k a Allah.
The Quran is not the truth of Allah or any god, but it was only from Muhammad.
No Angel of God would dare to start a new religion after Jesus except the Satan.


Posted By: JerryMyers
Date Posted: 25 June 2018 at 7:00am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time which he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.
The rest is not God's word a k a Allah.
The Quran is not the truth of Allah or any god, but it was only from Muhammad.
No Angel of God would dare to start a new religion after Jesus except the Satan.


What makes you think Islam is a new religion ?? Can you prove the basic teaching of Jesus (or the prophets before him) are different from Islam ?? Did Jesus preach that God Almighty is a ‘3-in-1’ God ?? Did Jesus (or the prophets before him) preach the concept of original sin ??
If Jesus and none of the prophets before him ever preached a ‘3-in-1’ God nor did they preach the concept of original sin, then, it’s clear that whoever started Christianity was inspired by Satan whose main objective is to draw mankind away from God Almighty and in Christianity, Satan succeeded in doing just that as billions of Christians took Jesus Christ as their savior when they should turn to God Almighty as their only sole savior – “I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from Me there is no savior” – Isaiah 43:11


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 25 June 2018 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

[QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 

Sorry, I just can reply because of busyness in the month of Ramadan.

I say once again that Prophet Muhammad was not the first inventor and founder of Islam.

In this case you must know and understand what is the meaning of the word Islam?

The word 'Islam' is derived from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered to Allah, and from the word "Salima" is to obtain salvation from Allah. Thus Islam implies:

Submission to Allah, and worship only to Allah in order to obtain salvation from Him.

And those who practice Islamic sharia are called "Muslims"

From the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who invite his people to Allah and surrender only to Allah. (Quran 21:92)

Truly! This Tauheed religion (Islamic Monotheism) is the religion of your ummah (followers), the one religion, and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me.”

Here are some evidence that the Prophets were people who submitted to Allah (Muslim):

Prophet Noah, he has invited his people to be Muslims, (Quran 10:72)

“But if you turn away (from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah), then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allah’s Will).”

Prophet Abraham and Prophet Jacob. (Quran 2:132)

And this submission to Allah (Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) saying: ‘O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam’.”

Prophet Ibrahim is known as the father of the Prophets, automatically, his 'Tauheed' will also followed by the next Prophets.

Prophet Musa (Moses). (Quran 10:84)

“And Musa (Moses) said: ’O my people! If you have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims’.”

Prophet Isa (Jesus). (Quran 5:72)

“....But the Messiah Isa (Jesus) said: ‘ O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no helpers’.”

In conclusion, all the Prophets are those who submit to Allah and who are worshiped only Allah, means they are Muslims.

That's all my belief in the Qur'an, anyone can have other opinion, therefore, one's faith should not be forced because only Allah who has the “Hidayah" (Guidance).

My principle in religion is, firstly I must understand the Quran to always follow the truth from Allah. (6:153)

“And verily, this Quran is My Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not other paths, for there will separate you away from His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious).”

The Quran 39:9

“.....say: ‘Are those who know equal to those who know not? verily, only those who have common sense are willing to accept the lesson (get lesson from Allah’s Signs and Verses of the Quran).”

So, Prophet Muhammad is not a liar.


 
Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time which he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.
The rest is not God's word a k a Allah.
The Quran is not the truth of Allah or any god, but it was only from Muhammad.
No Angel of God would dare to start a new religion after Jesus except the Satan.

Peace maker,

You said: “Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time”

If I noticed from your words it seems that your knowledge of the Qur'an as already surpassed the real Muslim scholars. Now I want to ask you how much you know about the history of the Qur'an:

1.    What date was the Quran revealed? please prove it with the proposition.

2.  You said: “he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.” Please provide the proof (not personal opinion), because in this day, people will not believe without evidence that can be trusted or rational.

The principle in Islam is only to convey the truths from God (Allah), while for those who do not want to accept it, it is the right of person, because the teachings of Islam forbid to force a person to become Muslim, only Allah who can give Hidayah (guidance) to anyone whom He wants, or it may be for those who do not want to accept His teachings is a sunnatullah (the will of God) as in His word.




Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 28 June 2018 at 9:10am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

[QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 

Sorry, I just can reply because of busyness in the month of Ramadan.

I say once again that Prophet Muhammad was not the first inventor and founder of Islam.

In this case you must know and understand what is the meaning of the word Islam?

The word 'Islam' is derived from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered to Allah, and from the word "Salima" is to obtain salvation from Allah. Thus Islam implies:

Submission to Allah, and worship only to Allah in order to obtain salvation from Him.

And those who practice Islamic sharia are called "Muslims"

From the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who invite his people to Allah and surrender only to Allah. (Quran 21:92)

Truly! This Tauheed religion (Islamic Monotheism) is the religion of your ummah (followers), the one religion, and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me.”

Here are some evidence that the Prophets were people who submitted to Allah (Muslim):

Prophet Noah, he has invited his people to be Muslims, (Quran 10:72)

“But if you turn away (from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah), then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allah’s Will).”

Prophet Abraham and Prophet Jacob. (Quran 2:132)

And this submission to Allah (Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) saying: ‘O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam’.”

Prophet Ibrahim is known as the father of the Prophets, automatically, his 'Tauheed' will also followed by the next Prophets.

Prophet Musa (Moses). (Quran 10:84)

“And Musa (Moses) said: ’O my people! If you have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims’.”

Prophet Isa (Jesus). (Quran 5:72)

“....But the Messiah Isa (Jesus) said: ‘ O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no helpers’.”

In conclusion, all the Prophets are those who submit to Allah and who are worshiped only Allah, means they are Muslims.

That's all my belief in the Qur'an, anyone can have other opinion, therefore, one's faith should not be forced because only Allah who has the “Hidayah" (Guidance).

My principle in religion is, firstly I must understand the Quran to always follow the truth from Allah. (6:153)

“And verily, this Quran is My Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not other paths, for there will separate you away from His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious).”

The Quran 39:9

“.....say: ‘Are those who know equal to those who know not? verily, only those who have common sense are willing to accept the lesson (get lesson from Allah’s Signs and Verses of the Quran).”

So, Prophet Muhammad is not a liar.


 
Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time which he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.
The rest is not God's word a k a Allah.
The Quran is not the truth of Allah or any god, but it was only from Muhammad.
No Angel of God would dare to start a new religion after Jesus except the Satan.

Peace maker,

You said: “Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time”

If I noticed from your words it seems that your knowledge of the Qur'an as already surpassed the real Muslim scholars. Now I want to ask you how much you know about the history of the Qur'an:

1.    What date was the Quran revealed? please prove it with the proposition.

2.  You said: “he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.” Please provide the proof (not personal opinion), because in this day, people will not believe without evidence that can be trusted or rational.

The principle in Islam is only to convey the truths from God (Allah), while for those who do not want to accept it, it is the right of person, because the teachings of Islam forbid to force a person to become Muslim, only Allah who can give Hidayah (guidance) to anyone whom He wants, or it may be for those who do not want to accept His teachings is a sunnatullah (the will of God) as in His word.


Some historians claimed its in 22 December 609 and some claim its in the month of Ramadan the last ten days in one the odd nights of Ramadan.
Your own own holy books proof it not mine.
 
Sahih means authentic Bukhari Volume 2,Book 26 Number 689.
Narrated Abu Huraira: in the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allah's Apostle made AbU Bakr the leader of the pilgrims,the (Abu Bakr)sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year,and no no naked person is allowed to perform the Tawaf of the Kaba.
 

Some of Muhammad's closest followers didn't like to perform the Saee of al-Safa and al-Marwah, for example, because they knew it had been a ritual of Arabian jinn-devil worship:

Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710 Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.'" (2.158)

The vast majority of Muhammad's followers have not bothered to investigate where the tradition of Ramadan came from other than to believe that, like everything else in Islam, Muhammad engaged in it and/or instructed his followers to.

"Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar and the rigid observance of thirty days of fasting during the daylight hours, has pagan roots developed in India and the Middle East. The observance of fasting to honor the moon, and ending the fast when the moon’s crescent appears, was practiced with the rituals of the Eastern worshippers of the moon. Both Ibn al-Nadim and the Shahrastani tell us about  al-Jandrikinieh, an Indian sect which began to fast when the moon disappeared and ended the fast with a great feast when the crescent reappeared.

"In Mecca, the Ahnaf were called Sabians because of the doctrines they embraced. Later, when Mohammed claimed to be a prophet, he was called a Sabian by the inhabitants of Mecca because they saw him performing many Sabian rites which included praying five times a day; performing several movements in prayer that were identical with the Mandaeans and the Harranians; and making ablution, or ceremonial washing, before each prayer. In the Qur'an, Mohammed called the Sabians “people of the book” like the Jews and Christians.

Ramadan was a pagan ceremony practiced by the Sabians, whether they were Harranians or Sabians. From the writings of Abu Zanad, an Arabic writer from Iraq who lived around 747 A.D., we conclude that at least one Mandaean community located in northern Iraq observed Ramadan.

What the pagans revealed to Muhammad instantly changed to one of Allah’s revelations.



Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 09 July 2018 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

[QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 


Peace maker,

Indeed, what you describe is all in the history, the worship ritual performed by Muslims which is exemplified by the Prophet Muhammad is a ritual of worship in accordance with the command of Allah, although it seems the same as the pagan ritual.

They (pagans) also worshiped their gods around the Ka'ba, but all the ritual polytheism was straightened out by the Prophet Muhammad become a 'Tauheed" ritual (there is no god except Allah). It is as the same as what had been done by all the Prophets before, such as salah (prayer), all the prophets perform the prayers as Muslims do now, which the different is only in the time of execution and the number of its salah.

Ramadan is just the name of the moon, whatever the community that performs religious rituals on that month no one forbids, but for Muslims have a guidance directly from their God. Similarly with fasting, other prophets are also doing fasting as commanded by God. Muslims do worship not because of imitating pagan but because of the command of Allah as the same as all Prophets did.

Prophet Muhammad is the successor of the monotheistic religions of the previous Prophets whose teachings have been completed by Allah as a warning to the whole of nature as in His word.

Some people say that Islam is a new religion, but for me, Islam is the religion that first appeared on the surface of this earth since the Prophet Adam 'alaihissalam.




Posted By: fatimunnisa
Date Posted: 10 July 2018 at 6:28am
It is said that Ibrahim-aale-salaam was grand father of our Prophet Mohammed (saw)
and our Nabi(saw) met him on the 7th sky in the night shab-e-Meraj mubarak.

So Ibrahim aale salaam is special as we recite Durood-e-ibraheem in our every salaah
it shows Allah granted him dignity.
And he is a special Prophet
But our Prophet Mohammed (SAW) IS SUPERIOR TO ALL
FIRST AND THE LAST PROPHET OF ALLAH


Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 10 July 2018 at 6:38am
Asep's speculation, "Some people say that Islam is a new religion, but for me, Islam is the religion that first appeared on the surface of this earth since the Prophet Adam 'alaihissalam. " is supported by Genesis 14:17-18 and the blessing of Abraham by Melchizedek, the priest/king of Salem.

This act of blessing by a priest can only be interpreted as a formal religious system extant before Judaism. Asep may well be correct from a Christian perspective.




-------------
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 10 July 2018 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

[QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 


Peace maker,

Indeed, what you describe is all in the history, the worship ritual performed by Muslims which is exemplified by the Prophet Muhammad is a ritual of worship in accordance with the command of Allah, although it seems the same as the pagan ritual.

They (pagans) also worshiped their gods around the Ka'ba, but all the ritual polytheism was straightened out by the Prophet Muhammad become a 'Tauheed" ritual (there is no god except Allah). It is as the same as what had been done by all the Prophets before, such as salah (prayer), all the prophets perform the prayers as Muslims do now, which the different is only in the time of execution and the number of its salah.

Ramadan is just the name of the moon, whatever the community that performs religious rituals on that month no one forbids, but for Muslims have a guidance directly from their God. Similarly with fasting, other prophets are also doing fasting as commanded by God. Muslims do worship not because of imitating pagan but because of the command of Allah as the same as all Prophets did.

Prophet Muhammad is the successor of the monotheistic religions of the previous Prophets whose teachings have been completed by Allah as a warning to the whole of nature as in His word.

Some people say that Islam is a new religion, but for me, Islam is the religion that first appeared on the surface of this earth since the Prophet Adam 'alaihissalam.


There was no Hajj, Ramadaan or Kabaa and any isalmic practices in the Bible what you want to tell its right use pagan practises in God's religion then why didn't Elijah incorporated the Baal rituals into the Jewis religion.
 
1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink from the cup of the Lord,and the cup of devils:you cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
 
  

1 Corinthians 10:21 Context

Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?  What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.  Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?  All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

So this explain in detail to yo what the pagans had sacificed in Muhammad's time was to devils.

This also explained that there can not and will not be any Prophet after Jesus so stop wasting your time.

Hebrews 1.

God’s Final Word: His Son

 

 

IN THE PAST GOD SPOKE TO US  ANCESTORS  THROUGH THE   PROPHETS AT MANY TIMES AND IN VARIOUS WAYS BUT IN THESE LAST DAYS HE HAS  SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON THROUGH WHOM HE APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, AND THROUGH WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE UNIVERSE.

THE SON IS THE RADIANCE OF GOD'S GLORY AND THE EXACT REPRESENTION OF HIS BEING, SUSTAINING ALL THINGS BY HIS POWERFULL WORD AFTER HE HAD PROVIDED PURIFICATION OR SINS, HE SAT  DOWN AT THE RIGHT OF GOD OF THE MAJESTY IN HEAVEN.   SO HE BECAME AS MUCH SUPERIOUR TO THE ANGELS AS THE NAME HE HE HAS INHERITED IS SUPERIOUR  TO THEIRS.

The Son Superiour to Angels.

 For which of the angels did God ever say You are my Son today I have become your Father.

Or again I will be his Father and he will be my Son.

 

Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Joh 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

Joh 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Joh 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Joh 8:57  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Joh 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.



Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 12 July 2018 at 1:04am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

[QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 


Peace maker,

Indeed, what you describe is all in the history, the worship ritual performed by Muslims which is exemplified by the Prophet Muhammad is a ritual of worship in accordance with the command of Allah, although it seems the same as the pagan ritual.

They (pagans) also worshiped their gods around the Ka'ba, but all the ritual polytheism was straightened out by the Prophet Muhammad become a 'Tauheed" ritual (there is no god except Allah). It is as the same as what had been done by all the Prophets before, such as salah (prayer), all the prophets perform the prayers as Muslims do now, which the different is only in the time of execution and the number of its salah.

Ramadan is just the name of the moon, whatever the community that performs religious rituals on that month no one forbids, but for Muslims have a guidance directly from their God. Similarly with fasting, other prophets are also doing fasting as commanded by God. Muslims do worship not because of imitating pagan but because of the command of Allah as the same as all Prophets did.

Prophet Muhammad is the successor of the monotheistic religions of the previous Prophets whose teachings have been completed by Allah as a warning to the whole of nature as in His word.

Some people say that Islam is a new religion, but for me, Islam is the religion that first appeared on the surface of this earth since the Prophet Adam 'alaihissalam.


There was no Hajj, Ramadaan or Kabaa and any isalmic practices in the Bible what you want to tell its right use pagan practises in God's religion then why didn't Elijah incorporated the Baal rituals into the Jewis religion.
 
1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink from the cup of the Lord,and the cup of devils:you cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
 
  

1 Corinthians 10:21 Context

Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?  What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.  Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?  All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

So this explain in detail to yo what the pagans had sacificed in Muhammad's time was to devils.

This also explained that there can not and will not be any Prophet after Jesus so stop wasting your time.

Hebrews 1.

God’s Final Word: His Son

 

 

IN THE PAST GOD SPOKE TO US  ANCESTORS  THROUGH THE   PROPHETS AT MANY TIMES AND IN VARIOUS WAYS BUT IN THESE LAST DAYS HE HAS  SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON THROUGH WHOM HE APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, AND THROUGH WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE UNIVERSE.

THE SON IS THE RADIANCE OF GOD'S GLORY AND THE EXACT REPRESENTION OF HIS BEING, SUSTAINING ALL THINGS BY HIS POWERFULL WORD AFTER HE HAD PROVIDED PURIFICATION OR SINS, HE SAT  DOWN AT THE RIGHT OF GOD OF THE MAJESTY IN HEAVEN.   SO HE BECAME AS MUCH SUPERIOUR TO THE ANGELS AS THE NAME HE HE HAS INHERITED IS SUPERIOUR  TO THEIRS.

The Son Superiour to Angels.

 For which of the angels did God ever say You are my Son today I have become your Father.

Or again I will be his Father and he will be my Son.

 

Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Joh 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

Joh 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Joh 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Joh 8:57  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Joh 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Peace maker,

In Islam, what you describe is the same as the hadith, and I am not so sure that it'll the same as in other places.

In contrast to the Qur'an, in the whole world there is definitely an its original language, so every one makes a fake Qur'an will be detected (sooner or later). And if there is an error, it is only in translation into the language of each country.

You said: “So this explain in detail to yo what the pagans had sacificed in Muhammad's time was to devils.

That is precisely where Prophet Muhammad has straightened them from pagans to monotheism (Tauheed Religion), although the ka'bah is the same, etc.

You said:This also explained that there can not and will not be any Prophet after Jesus so stop wasting your time.

Such explanations only came from people, like you, in contrast to the word of Allah in Qur'an 33:40

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last (end) of the Prophets. And Allah is Ever All-Aware of everything.”

 

Therefore, I will not waste my time, instead I always follow what Allah says until I die. Qur'an 18: 103,104,105

Say (O Muhammad): ‘Shall I tell you the greatest losers in respect of their deeds ? (103)

Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life while they thought that they were acquiring good by their deeds. (104)

They are those who deny the verses of their Lord and the meeting with Him (in the Hereafter). So their works are in vain, and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall assign no weight for them. (105)”




Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 13 July 2018 at 2:57pm
Asep.
 
The QURAN was not God's word its Muhammad's words and he was not a prophet clear and easy to refute.
 
 

I AM the Bread of Life

 I am the Bread of Life. Your fathers did eat manna in the 

wilderness, and are dead. This is the Bread which comes down 

from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 

 

I am the Living Bread which came down from heaven. If any man 

eat of this Bread, he shall live forever, and the bread that I will 

give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 

 

The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, "How can 

this man give us His flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, 

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, except you eat the flesh of the Son 

of Man, and drink His Blood, you have no life in you. Whoso eats 

My flesh, and drinks my Blood has eternal life, and I will raise him 

up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is 

drink indeed. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells 

in Me, and I in Him. 

 

As the Living Father has sent Me, and I live by the Father, so he 

that eats Me, even he shall live by Me. This is that bread which 

came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, 

and are dead. He that eats of this Bread shall live forever. (John 

6:48-58) 

 

     Seven times in the gospel of John, Jesus makes an "I am"

statement. He refers to Himself by saying such things as: "I AM

the resurrection and the life." These "I am" statements tell us

much about the nature and character of Christ; His purpose and

His way of working with us. They are reminescent of the time

when God told Abraham His name. He said His name was, "I

AM." Among other things, this showed God to be the eternal, all

knowing, one and only God.

     In the sixth chapter of John, Jesus says, "I am the Bread of

Life." What does this mean for us today? What is Jesus saying

about His relationship to us through that statement?

 

The Living Bread From Heaven 

 

     In the time of Jesus, bread was the staff of life. It symbolized

the source of life because it was the primary means by which

those people survived. So when Jesus said, "I am the Bread of

Life," the people understood the importance He was accruing to

Himself. He was saying, "I am your daily spiritual food. In fact, I

am the only means by which you can live forever."

     To the average Jew, this didn't make much sense. Afterall,

they were God's chosen people. Didn't their calling as such

already endow them with all they needed spiritually? Why did

they need a "bread of life?" They had Moses, Abraham, and the

law. Wasn't this enough?

     You'll notice in John 6 that the Jews keep referring to Moses

and the manna in the wilderness. They had a strong tradition

that it was through the merits of Moses that God fed them with

manna. They had perpetuated this tradition into the idea that it

was their keeping of the law as given through Moses that now

kept them in line for eternal life. So when Jesus said, "Moses

didn't give your fathers the manna. God gave it to them," it didn't

jive with their beliefs. And when He told them the wilderness

manna did not impart eternal life to anyone, it was a blow to their

nationalistic ego. Above all, when He stood there and said, "I AM

the true Bread of Life," it shocked them. He was not only directly

contradicting their beliefs about how they could obtain eternal

life, but He was replacing their law-keeping and adherence to

tradition with HIMSELF.

     Jesus once said, "You search the scriptures because you

think that in them is eternal life. But you will not come to ME."

The Truth here is similar to the one Jesus is presenting in John.

All of our forms of religion and worship, no matter how Bible

based and otherwise profitable they may be, cannot replace HIM.

Jesus Christ is a real, living Person. He is, in fact, so real and

available to us, that He is able to picture Himself as common,

daily bread -- so simple a thing, and yet so vital.

 

Reality in Christ 

 

     It can be a difficult realization for some people, but it is the

Truth: Christianity is not a religion. It is not a list of doctrines to

believe in. It is not even a religion which grew out of the inspired

Word of God. Christianity is a relationship with a Person. It is a

redemptive experience with God through Jesus Christ. It is the

result of what happens when God comes down and makes

Himself one with man.

     This is part of what Jesus was trying to tell us in John 6. He

was saying, "All of your religious exercises, no matter how good

they may be, cannot feed you. I am the Bread of Life. Come to

Me. Eat and drink my flesh and blood."

     Jesus wasn't condemning religious things. But the danger in

those things is that they can serve as a substitute for the real.

God wants us to push past everything which speaks of Christ,

and points to Christ, and reminds us of Christ, to Christ Himself.

He alone is the true Bread.

     If it were possible to trace the history of the Christian church

back to the beginning, we would find that the fundamental

reason it got off the track was that it substituted some form of

"Christian religion" for the Living Christ. This always results in

dead religion and ritual. The only solution is to return to Christ

Himself. For He says, "I am the Living Bread. I alone can feed

you. I alone am your Source of life."

 

Eating and Drinking 

 

     As Jesus began to reveal to the crowds that He was the Bread

of life, they couldn't seem to rid themselves of the notion that He

was speaking about the physical. They took everything He said

literally. Despite the fact that Jesus told them, "The words which I

speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life." (Jn. 6:63), they

continued to interpret Him naturally. Even His own disciples

could not see that He was speaking to them spiritually. As a

result, they could not understand what He meant when He said

He was the Bread of Life. They had no clue as to what He meant

when He said they actually had to "eat" His flesh and "drink" His

Blood.

     For us to understand what Jesus meant, we need only extract

Jesus' own explaination from the passage:

 

He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, 

dwells in Me, and I in him. 

 

     When I eat or drink something, it becomes part of me. Only

that which is waste passes through me. But symbolically, there

would be no waste in eating and drinking the Son of God. All of

Him would become part of me. Thus, when Jesus talks of eating

and drinking His flesh and blood, He is talking about Himself

becoming ONE with us. He is describing a complete intergration

of His being with ours.

     So often we think of Jesus as being "separate" from us, sort of

like He is "way off in heaven." But while Jesus is a separate,

distinct personality and being, and we will always maintain our

individual identity as well, we must never let these facts distort

the reality that we are ONE with Jesus Christ. Indeed, we are so

much ONE with Him that Jesus is able to liken Himself as Bread

and wine which we are to eat and drink.

     Food, as stated, becomes part of us. But it also sustains us,

invading with nourishment every cell of our body. There is no

area of our physical body which is not affected by what we eat

and drink. We've all heard the expression, "You are what you

eat." It is true. Such is the oneness and the continual

co-existance we are to have with the Living Bread.

 

Identification and Communion 

 

     It is not a coincidence that Jesus says, "Except you eat the

flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood, you have no life in

you," and then later uses the same symbolism in instituting the

Lord's Supper. In fact, Paul says, "As often as you eat this Bread

and drink this cup, you do show the Lord's death until He

comes." (I Cor 11:26) The relationship between Jesus as the

Bread of Life, and the Lord's Supper, is a direct one.

     Paul is actually showing us what eating and drinking the flesh

and Blood of Jesus means in a practical sense. He is showing

us that it means more than just an outward proclamation of the

fact Jesus died. Indeed, Paul is saying, "To proclaim the Lord's

death you must allow it to become YOUR death." Not just in

theory. And not merely in doctrinal or ritualistic form. But really.

In other words, REAL communioin means you proclaim the Lord's

death by experiencing His death in YOUR life. The actual

taking of the bread and wine is merely symbolic of that fact.

     So often we think of the death of Christ as a doctrine we must

believe in. But even though doctrine is important, and certainly

vital with regard to the death of Christ, doctrine can't save us. If I

believe every right doctrine there is, those doctrines, and my

belief in them, cannot substitute for experiencing the REALITY

behind them. Such is the case with the death of Christ. I can

proclaim by written or spoken doctrine the death of Christ. I can

even proclaim it by participating in a communion service. But

until His death actually begins to invade ME, and bury my old

man in Adam -- experientially -- I am not really proclaiming

anything. No matter how loud I shout the words.

     The Bible tells us that we are buried with Christ by baptism

into death. It says that we are planted into His death, that is,

"engrafted" into His death. (see Romans 6) It says the same

thing about His resurrection. Therefore, should we not expect

that the death which Jesus experienced would impact us in a

very REAL way? Should we not expect that His death would be

more than a doctrine to believe in, but instead, a death we must

also partake of by experience?

     Yes. In fact, the death of Jesus Christ is to invade every part

of us, just as eating bread invades every cell of our body. The

death of Christ has ALREADY put our old man to death. But now

this death is to invade our members, indeed, our entire being, so

that it might be worked out in practical experience. Only then His

resurrection be likewise made manifest in us.

     Doesn't it seem odd that Jesus, on the one hand, proclaims

 

Himself the Bread of Life which gives life to the world, yet on the

other hand, says that eating the Bread with represents His Body

is a proclamation of His death?

     Not if we understand that the only path to life which God

offers us is through death. If we "eat" Jesus Christ, the Bread of

Life, it will result in the death of everything we are in Adam. But it

will also result in the resurrection of the new man in Christ Jesus.

 

Oneness With Christ 

 

     The Bible talks much about "Christ in you." But it talks just as

much about being "in Christ." Again, we see a oneness. We see

a complete identification and integration of the fundament of our

being with that of our Saviour.

     Notice the way in which the Bible speaks of our oneness with

Jesus Christ:

 

"We are flesh of His flesh, and bone of His bones."

 

 

"For you are all one in Christ Jesus." 

 

     The point is, we are part of Him. Not just in a poetic way or a

doctrinal way. But really. Our spiritual life processes are one

with Him. Indeed, we derive ours from His.

     This was made possible when God planted all of humankind

into Jesus Christ on the Cross. At that point, the perfect Son of

Man, the last Adam, became one with all of us -- the collective

first Adam. And if we "eat and drink" of Christ, continually partake

of Him as the Living Bread, then everything He is, and which He

accomplished, likewise impacts us. Not just in theory. Not just

doctrinally. But really. At work in us is a "death and resurrection"

process which is geared to conforming us to the death and

resurrection of Christ, and as a result, will conform us to His

image.

     Thus we see the reality of Christianity. Christianity is not a list

of doctrines to believe in. It is a relationship with a Living

Saviour. It is not a "joining a church." It is a joining with Jesus

Christ, the True Bread which has come down from heaven. *    

  Lesson 8

I Am the Bread of Life

Definition:

The Bread of Life is the spiritual food needed by man. Without the bread of life man cannot live spiritually. Just as physically man needs to eat in order to live, the bread of life gives nourishment for the soul. Unless one eats from the bread of live he faces eternal death.

 

Meaning:

In the Old Testament God provided the Israelites with manna from heaven. They were told only to take what was required for a one day supply and they had to trust that God would send more the next day. The manna served as salvation for the Israelites physical needs on a daily basis. God, however knew of a greater need for the salvation of man's soul and he also had a plan to meet that need -- His Son, the Bread of Life. The Israelites needed to eat daily, but once one has tasted the bread of life he does not need to ask for it again, because his soul has been saved.

 

Scripture Support:

 

John 6:35 (KJV)

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

 

John 6:48-58

I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

 

Conclusion:

 

Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life. It is he whom I need to eat in order that I might have eternal life. He is the manna for my soul that God promised. Though I don't need to wait each day to take part of the bread of life, I do need to be sure that my life is lived like Jesus. He was the example of how I am to live and part of what it means for me to eat the bread of life is to live my life the way Jesus, the Bread of Life, lived his.

Application:

Since Jesus is the Bread of Life, I will treat Him with as great importance as actual food. I will partake of Him each day by praying, reading His word and listening for the Holy Spirit, knowing that as I focus on Him, He is nourishing me spiritually. Also, as I eat, I will remember that physical food is a symbol of how we are to relate to Jesus spiritually, and I will thank Him for providing me with both physical food for my body and spiritual food for my soul.   

Lesson 9

I Am the Good Shepherd

Definition:

A shepherd is one employed in tending, feeding and guarding the sheep. Jesus, the Good Shepherd, indicates the kind of shepherd He is. He unlike some who would flee when facing danger, gave up His life for the sheep in His care.

Meaning:

Jesus takes care of and looks after His sheep. His sheep are the people of this world who have accepted Him and believe He will take of them. Sheep are completely reliant on the shepherd to take them to where there is food and protect them from wolves and other predators that would enjoy devouring a sheep that was left unprotected. The sheep in Jesus' flock need not fear anything for He has never lost a sheep that was placed in His care.

 

Scripture Support:

 

John 10:11-18

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

Matthew 18:12-14

How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that [sheep], than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

 

Luke 15:1-7

Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. And he spake this parable unto them, saying, What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found [it], he layeth [it] on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together [his] friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

 

Isaiah 40:10-11

Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. 11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

 

Ezekiel 34:11-16

For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD. 16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

 

Matthew 26:31-35

Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. 32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee. 33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended. 34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. 35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.

 

Mark 14:27-31

And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered. 28 But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee. 29 But Peter said unto him, Although all shall be offended, yet will not I. 30 And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. 31 But he spake the more vehemently, If I should die with thee, I will not deny thee in any wise. Likewise also said they all.

 

Hebrews 13:20-21

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

1 Peter 5:4

And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

 

Revelation 7:15-17

 

 

Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Conclusion:

 

Jesus is the one shepherd we, as sheep, can completely trust. All we need to do is let Him and He will take care of our every need without us having to do anything on our own. Just as sheep follow their shepherd everywhere we need to follow Jesus, the Good Shepherd.

Billions of Muslims swears alegiance to Muhammad's words and not any kind of god's words the Quran was only there to fit the benifit of Muhammad and misled his followers who submit to Muhammad and not any god.

Islam's real meaning is submit to Muhammad. 



Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 14 July 2018 at 10:10pm
Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.



Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 1:11am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.



Even if the real world shows that on occaision the Koran gets it wrong?


Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 6:12am
Trying to change people's beliefs through the internet is not a gracious act. Nobody ever changes religion orientation based on internet posts. That would be incredibly shallow.

At best you present your religion as group of pushy and conceited people. At worst, you lead people to doubt their faith in God entirely.

Every conversation here should be based in prayer and not argument.

-------------
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Trying to change people's beliefs through the internet is not a gracious act. Nobody ever changes religion orientation based on internet posts. That would be incredibly shallow.

At best you present your religion as group of pushy and conceited people. At worst, you lead people to doubt their faith in God entirely.

Every conversation here should be based in prayer and not argument.

Yes DavidC, I agree your opinion, let alone through the internet or the like, even meet face to face, it is not necessarily people will change their religion, because it can not be separated from the Will of God.


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Trying to change people's beliefs through the internet is not a gracious act. Nobody ever changes religion orientation based on internet posts. That would be incredibly shallow.

At best you present your religion as group of pushy and conceited people. At worst, you lead people to doubt their faith in God entirely.

Every conversation here should be based in prayer and not argument.


If exposure to new ideas causes you to think about the world in a different way, a more enlightened way, in which you are better able to deal with it is the realization of uncertainty actually a very good thing?


Posted By: yandex
Date Posted: 17 July 2018 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Trying to change people's beliefs through the internet is not a gracious act. Nobody ever changes religion orientation based on internet posts. That would be incredibly shallow....

On the contrary,  internet & social media is a significant platform now for dawah/ proselytization. That's also one of the purpose of this forum for the owners too. Yes, people do change their perception when they see facts provided to them online which otherwise they never came across before.

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Asep.
The QURAN was not God's word its Muhammad's words and he was not a prophet clear and easy to refute.


Well I think Bible is not the word of God too. On the point about Muhammad however I can provide an example as below. When you read the both the related hadith & the Quranic verse, you can make your own conclusion. Here you can see Muhammad correcting his verse not realizing the blind guy was there with him. It was definitely not the All Knowing God who overlooked.

Narrated Al-Bara:

When the Verse:--"Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home)," (4.95) was revealed, the Prophet said, "Call so-and-so." That person came to him with an ink-pot and a wooden board or a shoulder scapula bone. The Prophet (ﷺ) said (to him), "Write: 'Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and those who strive and fight in the Cause of Allah." Ibn Um Maktum who was sitting behind the Prophet (ﷺ) then said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! I am a blind man." So there was revealed in the place of that Verse, the Verse:--"Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home) except those who are disabled (by injury, or are blind or lame etc.) and those who strive and fight in the Cause of Allah." (4.95)

Sahih al-Bukhari Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 118Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an


Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward;

(Quran 4 95)


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 20 July 2018 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.

Who and what told you to believe in the Quran?
Who told you Allah has absolute power?
Where is Allah right now?
I am not influencing you,you influence yourself by your own will and may be someone elses advise.
You must just remember Jesus is the Messiah the saviour of all mankind in this anything after him that wanted to imitate some kind of salvation will not work like 1,5 billion prayers a day what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 25 July 2018 at 6:07am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.

Who and what told you to believe in the Quran?
Who told you Allah has absolute power?
Where is Allah right now?
I am not influencing you,you influence yourself by your own will and may be someone elses advise.
You must just remember Jesus is the Messiah the saviour of all mankind in this anything after him that wanted to imitate some kind of salvation will not work like 1,5 billion prayers a day what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?

Allah told me to believe the Quran.

Allah tells me that HE has absolute power as in HIS words in the Quran. just a real example: no one in this world can make the universe except HIM.

Allah holds all that is in this universe, even what is in our body.

What affects me is Allah through His word in the Quran.

I always remember Jesus (Isa) and the other Prophets.

You said: “what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?”

You seem to know exactly about unanswered prayers, so you can say like that.

Please remember, not only religious people who are heard and granted their prayers by Allah, even devil who are cursed by Allah there is his prayer that was granted by Allah.



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 27 July 2018 at 2:51am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.