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What Quran tells about Religion of Ibraham

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Topic: What Quran tells about Religion of Ibraham
Posted By: ajzhyder
Subject: What Quran tells about Religion of Ibraham
Date Posted: 20 April 2018 at 2:09pm
Religion of Ibrahim

Undoubtedly there are many religions in the world existing today and also a growing number of people not following any religion. What does Al-Quran say about following a religion and which one? We will see shortly in the light of Ayas/Signs of the Book.

The word for religion in Arabic is ‘Millat’. There is another word which is commonly understood to mean religion i.e ‘Din’. However, the context in which ‘Din’ is used in the Book is ‘judgment’ and not religion.

God instructs every one to follow the religion of Ibrahim in Ayat 95 of Sura 3 Ale Imran.

3:95: قُلْ صَدَقَ اللّهُ فَاتَّبِعُواْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Say. Allah speaks the Truth, so you all, follow the religion of Ibrahim, the true in faith; he was not of the Polytheists.”

Then God inspired the Messenger to follow the religion of Ibrahim in Aya 123 of Sura 16:

16:123ثُمَّ �£َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ �£َنِ اتَّبِعْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Then We inspired thee (Mohammad), Follow the religion of Abraham the True in Faith, and he was not from the Polytheists.”

The Messenger confirms that God has guided him to the straight path of the religion of Ibrahim in Ayat 161 of Sura 6 Al-Inam.

6:161

قُلْ إِنَّنِي هَدَانِي رَبِّي إِلَى صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ دِينًا قِيَمًا مِّلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Say : Surely my Lord has guided me to a straight path a judgment established; the Millat (Religion) of true IBRAHIM(Abraham) and he was not from the polytheists.”

Was this inspiration to follow the the religion of Ibrahim or any other order from the Lord, a new instruction for Messenger and people? or the same religion and practice was asked to be followed which was the religion and practice of all previous messengers? The following three Ayas will shed light on this question:

41:43

مَا يُقَالُ لَكَ إِلَّا مَا قَدْ قِيلَ لِلرُّسُلِ مِن قَبْلِكَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَذُو مَغْفِرَةٍ وَذُو عِقَابٍ �£َلِيمٍ

“Nothing is said to You (Mohammad) that was not said to the Messengers before you: verily your Lord has at his Command (all) forgiveness as well as the most Grievous vengeance.”

46:9

قُلْ مَا كُنتُ بِدْعًا مِّنْ الرُّسُلِ وَمَا �£َدْرِي مَا يُفْعَلُ بِي وَلَا بِكُمْ إِنْ �£َتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَى إِلَيَّ وَمَا �£َنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ مُّبِينٌ

“Say (O’ Mohammad) “I am no bringer of new doctrine among the Messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear.”

42:13

شَرَعَ لَكُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّى بِهِ نُوحًا وَالَّذِي �£َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ وَمَا وَصَّيْنَا بِهِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمُوسَى وَعِيسَى �£َنْ �£َقِيمُوا الدِّينَ وَلَا تَتَفَرَّقُوا فِيهِ كَبُرَ عَلَى الْمُشْرِكِينَ مَا تَدْعُوهُمْ إِلَيْهِ اللَّهُ يَجْتَبِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يَشَاء وَيَهْدِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يُنِيبُ

“The same Shariat/Way has He established for you all which He enjoined on Nooh ( Noah) – that  We have sent by inspiration to you (Mohammad) – and that which We enjoined on Ibrahim ( Abraham), Moosa ( Moses), and Essa (Jesus):  that you should remain steadfast in Din/Judgement, and make no differentiations therein: to those who join others with Allah, hard is the (way) to which you call them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).”

After you have made it your judgement to adopt the religion of Ibrahim, God names you ‘Muslim’ as stated Aya 78 of Sura Haj

22:78

وَجَاهِدُوا فِي اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ �£َبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاء عَلَى النَّاسِ فَ�£َقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَوْلَاكُمْ فَنِعْمَ الْمَوْلَى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ

“And you strive in Allah as is the right of striving in Him. He has chosen you and He has made no difficulty over you in the Din/Judgment ; The religion of your Father Ibraheem. And He has named you muslim from before and in this, so the Messenger (Rasool) be a witness over you and you be a witness over mankind. Then establish Salat/Prayer and give justification (zakah) and hold fast with Allah. He is your Protector (Maula) so He is the blessed Protector and the blessed Helper”

 
 



Replies:
Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 27 April 2018 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by ajzhyder ajzhyder wrote:

Religion of Ibrahim

Undoubtedly there are many religions in the world existing today and also a growing number of people not following any religion. What does Al-Quran say about following a religion and which one? We will see shortly in the light of Ayas/Signs of the Book.

The word for religion in Arabic is ‘Millat’. There is another word which is commonly understood to mean religion i.e ‘Din’. However, the context in which ‘Din’ is used in the Book is ‘judgment’ and not religion.

God instructs every one to follow the religion of Ibrahim in Ayat 95 of Sura 3 Ale Imran.

3:95: قُلْ صَدَقَ اللّهُ فَاتَّبِعُواْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Say. Allah speaks the Truth, so you all, follow the religion of Ibrahim, the true in faith; he was not of the Polytheists.”

Then God inspired the Messenger to follow the religion of Ibrahim in Aya 123 of Sura 16:

16:123ثُمَّ �£َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ �£َنِ اتَّبِعْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Then We inspired thee (Mohammad), Follow the religion of Abraham the True in Faith, and he was not from the Polytheists.”

The Messenger confirms that God has guided him to the straight path of the religion of Ibrahim in Ayat 161 of Sura 6 Al-Inam.

6:161

قُلْ إِنَّنِي هَدَانِي رَبِّي إِلَى صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ دِينًا قِيَمًا مِّلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Say : Surely my Lord has guided me to a straight path a judgment established; the Millat (Religion) of true IBRAHIM(Abraham) and he was not from the polytheists.”

Was this inspiration to follow the the religion of Ibrahim or any other order from the Lord, a new instruction for Messenger and people? or the same religion and practice was asked to be followed which was the religion and practice of all previous messengers? The following three Ayas will shed light on this question:

41:43

مَا يُقَالُ لَكَ إِلَّا مَا قَدْ قِيلَ لِلرُّسُلِ مِن قَبْلِكَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَذُو مَغْفِرَةٍ وَذُو عِقَابٍ �£َلِيمٍ

“Nothing is said to You (Mohammad) that was not said to the Messengers before you: verily your Lord has at his Command (all) forgiveness as well as the most Grievous vengeance.”

46:9

قُلْ مَا كُنتُ بِدْعًا مِّنْ الرُّسُلِ وَمَا �£َدْرِي مَا يُفْعَلُ بِي وَلَا بِكُمْ إِنْ �£َتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَى إِلَيَّ وَمَا �£َنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ مُّبِينٌ

“Say (O’ Mohammad) “I am no bringer of new doctrine among the Messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear.”

42:13

شَرَعَ لَكُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّى بِهِ نُوحًا وَالَّذِي �£َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ وَمَا وَصَّيْنَا بِهِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمُوسَى وَعِيسَى �£َنْ �£َقِيمُوا الدِّينَ وَلَا تَتَفَرَّقُوا فِيهِ كَبُرَ عَلَى الْمُشْرِكِينَ مَا تَدْعُوهُمْ إِلَيْهِ اللَّهُ يَجْتَبِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يَشَاء وَيَهْدِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يُنِيبُ

“The same Shariat/Way has He established for you all which He enjoined on Nooh ( Noah) – that  We have sent by inspiration to you (Mohammad) – and that which We enjoined on Ibrahim ( Abraham), Moosa ( Moses), and Essa (Jesus):  that you should remain steadfast in Din/Judgement, and make no differentiations therein: to those who join others with Allah, hard is the (way) to which you call them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).”

After you have made it your judgement to adopt the religion of Ibrahim, God names you ‘Muslim’ as stated Aya 78 of Sura Haj

22:78

وَجَاهِدُوا فِي اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ �£َبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاء عَلَى النَّاسِ فَ�£َقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَوْلَاكُمْ فَنِعْمَ الْمَوْلَى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ

“And you strive in Allah as is the right of striving in Him. He has chosen you and He has made no difficulty over you in the Din/Judgment ; The religion of your Father Ibraheem. And He has named you muslim from before and in this, so the Messenger (Rasool) be a witness over you and you be a witness over mankind. Then establish Salat/Prayer and give justification (zakah) and hold fast with Allah. He is your Protector (Maula) so He is the blessed Protector and the blessed Helper”

 
 
 
Can you define this for me.
 
“Nothing is said to You (Mohammad) that was not said to the Messengers before you: verily your Lord has at his Command (all) forgiveness as well as the most Grievous vengeance.”
 
I am happy to see that we worshipped the same God.


Posted By: ajzhyder
Date Posted: 28 April 2018 at 4:49am
It means that all Messengers of God bring the exact same message from God. God does not give any messenger a different message or a different book.
 
People after they get some knowledge start differing with each other and form different groups. Each group adheres to some concepts and make their own books and they take great pride in what they have
https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2017/03/03/groups-sects/" rel="nofollow - https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2017/03/03/groups-sects/
 
Interesting reading on what is meant by the term 'Ahlal Kitab' in the Book in below post:
https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2017/03/26/who-are-ahlal-kitab/" rel="nofollow - https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2017/03/26/who-are-ahlal-kitab/
 


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 28 April 2018 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by ajzhyder ajzhyder wrote:

Religion of Ibrahim

Undoubtedly there are many religions in the world existing today and also a growing number of people not following any religion. What does Al-Quran say about following a religion and which one? We will see shortly in the light of Ayas/Signs of the Book.

The word for religion in Arabic is ‘Millat’. There is another word which is commonly understood to mean religion i.e ‘Din’. However, the context in which ‘Din’ is used in the Book is ‘judgment’ and not religion.

God instructs every one to follow the religion of Ibrahim in Ayat 95 of Sura 3 Ale Imran.

3:95: قُلْ صَدَقَ اللّهُ فَاتَّبِعُواْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Say. Allah speaks the Truth, so you all, follow the religion of Ibrahim, the true in faith; he was not of the Polytheists.”

Then God inspired the Messenger to follow the religion of Ibrahim in Aya 123 of Sura 16:

16:123ثُمَّ �£َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ �£َنِ اتَّبِعْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Then We inspired thee (Mohammad), Follow the religion of Abraham the True in Faith, and he was not from the Polytheists.”

The Messenger confirms that God has guided him to the straight path of the religion of Ibrahim in Ayat 161 of Sura 6 Al-Inam.

6:161

قُلْ إِنَّنِي هَدَانِي رَبِّي إِلَى صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ دِينًا قِيَمًا مِّلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

“Say : Surely my Lord has guided me to a straight path a judgment established; the Millat (Religion) of true IBRAHIM(Abraham) and he was not from the polytheists.”

Was this inspiration to follow the the religion of Ibrahim or any other order from the Lord, a new instruction for Messenger and people? or the same religion and practice was asked to be followed which was the religion and practice of all previous messengers? The following three Ayas will shed light on this question:

41:43

مَا يُقَالُ لَكَ إِلَّا مَا قَدْ قِيلَ لِلرُّسُلِ مِن قَبْلِكَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ لَذُو مَغْفِرَةٍ وَذُو عِقَابٍ �£َلِيمٍ

“Nothing is said to You (Mohammad) that was not said to the Messengers before you: verily your Lord has at his Command (all) forgiveness as well as the most Grievous vengeance.”

46:9

قُلْ مَا كُنتُ بِدْعًا مِّنْ الرُّسُلِ وَمَا �£َدْرِي مَا يُفْعَلُ بِي وَلَا بِكُمْ إِنْ �£َتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَى إِلَيَّ وَمَا �£َنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ مُّبِينٌ

“Say (O’ Mohammad) “I am no bringer of new doctrine among the Messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear.”

42:13

شَرَعَ لَكُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّى بِهِ نُوحًا وَالَّذِي �£َوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ وَمَا وَصَّيْنَا بِهِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمُوسَى وَعِيسَى �£َنْ �£َقِيمُوا الدِّينَ وَلَا تَتَفَرَّقُوا فِيهِ كَبُرَ عَلَى الْمُشْرِكِينَ مَا تَدْعُوهُمْ إِلَيْهِ اللَّهُ يَجْتَبِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يَشَاء وَيَهْدِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يُنِيبُ

“The same Shariat/Way has He established for you all which He enjoined on Nooh ( Noah) – that  We have sent by inspiration to you (Mohammad) – and that which We enjoined on Ibrahim ( Abraham), Moosa ( Moses), and Essa (Jesus):  that you should remain steadfast in Din/Judgement, and make no differentiations therein: to those who join others with Allah, hard is the (way) to which you call them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).”

After you have made it your judgement to adopt the religion of Ibrahim, God names you ‘Muslim’ as stated Aya 78 of Sura Haj

22:78

وَجَاهِدُوا فِي اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ �£َبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاء عَلَى النَّاسِ فَ�£َقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَوْلَاكُمْ فَنِعْمَ الْمَوْلَى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ

“And you strive in Allah as is the right of striving in Him. He has chosen you and He has made no difficulty over you in the Din/Judgment ; The religion of your Father Ibraheem. And He has named you muslim from before and in this, so the Messenger (Rasool) be a witness over you and you be a witness over mankind. Then establish Salat/Prayer and give justification (zakah) and hold fast with Allah. He is your Protector (Maula) so He is the blessed Protector and the blessed Helper”

 
 
 
Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 30 April 2018 at 5:25am
According to the bible Abram's priest/king/prophet was Melchizedek. Part of Jesus' purpose was establishing Jesus as the new priest/prophet/king in the Order of Melchizedek.

There is extensive speculation about this, but the only safe conclusion is that the bible states there was a true religion prior to Abraham and Mosaic Hebrewism.

-------------
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: JerryMyers
Date Posted: 30 April 2018 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


You are right – there’s no such thing as ‘a religion’ or ‘a Muslim’ or ‘a Christian’ in the time of Abraham or Jesus – what they had was a relationship with God.

However, Islam by definition means submission to the Will of God and a Muslim is one who do and submit to the Will of God. In other words, the name does not define who you are, BUT, the action does. So when Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 7:21, he’s actually saying only the Muslims (those who do the Will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Did Abraham and Jesus do and submit themselves to the Will of God ? Yes, they did, so, by definition, they are Muslims.




Posted By: ajzhyder
Date Posted: 30 April 2018 at 8:48pm
Thanks for the good inputs.
However, a question comes to mind that, why God would send different prophets with different religions. Shouldn't God's intended message to mankind remain the same through-out? Is it possible that God sent all messengers with one intended message, but after a Messenger left the world, the villains of religions, hid the real message and put forth a distorted form of the real teachings.
 
I came to understand certain terms used in Quran which are conceived otherwise by many people.
E.g Al-Islam means the Peace. The word 'Al-Islam' is not used as religion in Quran but means 'the Peace'. Quran asks it followers to follow the religion of Abraham. As for their judgment/decisions it asks them to follow Al-Islam/The Peace.  (Ironically many of the people who label themselves 'Muslim', think highly of holy wars. This is mainly due to the fact that what is taught to them mostly is out of Quran)
 
Similarly Muslims are not meant as followers of religion of Islam, but actually means 'Submitters' to the orders of Allah.
 
Deen/Din means Judgment in Quran.
The word for religion is 'Millat' in Arabic.
 
So this statement in Quran ' When Allah orders that the Judgment (Din) in the nearness of Allah is Al-Islam, it should mean that when confronted with any situation in life, one should always take that decision which leads to peace and security.
Although it is commonly understood to mean that Religion in the nearness of Allah is Islam.
 

Quran mentions several groups of people with certain names or labels, such as Muslims, Jews, Christians, etc. When Al-Kitab introduces these labels it also gives behaviors and character traits of these people. A very important point to understand is that when Al-Kitab mentions for example 'Jews' it means those people who act according to traits given in Quran for Jews, and not by what the world calls them or not by what label they put on themselves.

And when Al-Kitab mentions 'Muslims', then those people who match the character traits of 'Muslims' in Al-Kitab are meant.  The labels that people put on themselves don't matter. If some people call and label themselves as 'Muslims', however, their actions actually match the traits of 'Jews' given in the Book, then they are actually 'Jews' in the eyes of the Lord. Vice Versa, if some people call and label themselves as 'Jews', however they do not match the characteristics of 'Jews' in the Book, they are not 'Jews' in the eyes of the Lord.

It may not be that a particular group exhibits characteristics of a trait all the time. It would seem more likely that in every community wether as a whole this community be labeled as Muslim, Jew or Christian, there would be some people within each community behaving like Muslims, Jews and Christians, Hypocrites and Momin/Believers etc.



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 03 May 2018 at 8:12am
Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


You are right – there’s no such thing as ‘a religion’ or ‘a Muslim’ or ‘a Christian’ in the time of Abraham or Jesus – what they had was a relationship with God.

However, Islam by definition means submission to the Will of God and a Muslim is one who do and submit to the Will of God. In other words, the name does not define who you are, BUT, the action does. So when Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 7:21, he’s actually saying only the Muslims (those who do the Will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Did Abraham and Jesus do and submit themselves to the Will of God ? Yes, they did, so, by definition, they are Muslims.


 
Well then Muhammad didn't hear that Christians,Jews.Nabteans and Sabaens said to him that were already muslims.


Posted By: ajzhyder
Date Posted: 03 May 2018 at 7:02pm
Not withstanding what labels they put on themselves, when the hear the truth they would say that we believe in it and have already been submitter to Allah's will
 
28:53  وَإِذَا يُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِمْ قَالُوا آمَنَّا بِهِ إِنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّنَا إِنَّا كُنَّا مِن قَبْلِهِ مُسْلِمِينَ
 
28:53  And when it is recited to them, they say. "We believe therein, for it is the Truth from our Lord. indeed we have been Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will) from before this.
 
3:52  فَلَمَّا �£َحَسَّ عِيسَىٰ مِنْهُمُ الْكُفْرَ قَالَ مَنْ �£َنصَارِي إِلَى اللَّهِ ۖ قَالَ الْحَوَارِيُّونَ نَحْنُ �£َنصَارُ اللَّهِ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَاشْهَدْ بِ�£َنَّا مُسْلِمُونَ
3:52  When ESSA(Jesus) realized unbelief on their part he said "who will be my helpers to God". Said the companions (disciples). "we are God`s helpers. We believe In God, and you bear witness that we are MUSLIMS(submitters)".
 
3:84  Say we believe in Allah and what is revealed on us and what was revealed on Ibraheem and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoob and tribes and what was given to Moosa, Essa and the prophets is from their Lord. We do not make distinction between anyone from it and for Him we are Muslims / submitters.


Posted By: JerryMyers
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 7:32am
Originally posted by ajzhyder ajzhyder wrote:

Thanks for the good inputs.
However, a question comes to mind that, why God would send different prophets with different religions. Shouldn't God's intended mes-sage to mankind remain the same through-out? Is it possible that God sent all messengers with one intended message, but after a Messenger left the world, the villains of religions, hid the real message and put forth a distorted form of the real teachings.


Well, God DID NOT send different prophets with different religions. All prophets carried the same basic fundamental message from Him – the Lord, your God, is ONE and submit to His Will.

Religions originated from man’s differing understanding of who God is. It’s like the story of the six blind men and the elephant – one said the elephant is like a wall because he was touching the body of the elephant, the other one said the elephant is like a leaf because he was touching the ear of the elephant, still the other one said the elephant is like a rope because he was holding the tail of the elephant and so on and yet, these 6 blind men are describing the one and same elephant. Only those who are not blind can see the true description of the elephant. Likewise, only those who are ‘not blind’ can truly ‘see’ the teachings of the prophets and understand who God is and what He expects out of us.


Posted By: JerryMyers
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 7:36am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


You are right – there’s no such thing as ‘a religion’ or ‘a Muslim’ or ‘a Christian’ in the time of Abraham or Jesus – what they had was a relationship with God.

However, Islam by definition means submission to the Will of God and a Muslim is one who do and submit to the Will of God. In other words, the name does not define who you are, BUT, the action does. So when Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 7:21, he’s actually saying only the Muslims (those who do the Will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Did Abraham and Jesus do and submit themselves to the Will of God ? Yes, they did, so, by definition, they are Muslims.


 
Well then Muhammad didn't hear that Christians,Jews.Nabteans and Sabaens said to him that were already muslims.


He don't have to hear from them – he knows those who believe in the true oneness of God and do/submit to the Will of God are Muslims.


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 10:21am
Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by ajzhyder ajzhyder wrote:

Thanks for the good inputs.
However, a question comes to mind that, why God would send different prophets with different religions. Shouldn't God's intended mes-sage to mankind remain the same through-out? Is it possible that God sent all messengers with one intended message, but after a Messenger left the world, the villains of religions, hid the real message and put forth a distorted form of the real teachings.


Well, God DID NOT send different prophets with different religions. All prophets carried the same basic fundamental message from Him – the Lord, your God, is ONE and submit to His Will.

Religions originated from man’s differing understanding of who God is. It’s like the story of the six blind men and the elephant – one said the elephant is like a wall because he was touching the body of the elephant, the other one said the elephant is like a leaf because he was touching the ear of the elephant, still the other one said the elephant is like a rope because he was holding the tail of the elephant and so on and yet, these 6 blind men are describing the one and same elephant. Only those who are not blind can see the true description of the elephant. Likewise, only those who are ‘not blind’ can truly ‘see’ the teachings of the prophets and understand who God is and what He expects out of us.


Do you consider the Aztec religion to be along the same lines as your religion at all?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_religion

Quote The Aztec religion is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_religion" rel="nofollow - Mesoamerican religion of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec" rel="nofollow - Aztecs . Like other Mesoamerican religions, it had elements of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice" rel="nofollow - human sacrifice in connection with a large number of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_festival" rel="nofollow - religious festivals which were held according to patterns of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_calendar" rel="nofollow - Aztec calendar . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheistic" rel="nofollow - Polytheistic in its https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology" rel="nofollow - theology , the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion" rel="nofollow - religion recognized a large and ever increasing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheon_%28gods%29" rel="nofollow - pantheon of gods and goddesses; the Aztecs would often incorporate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity" rel="nofollow - deities whose cults came from other geographic regions or peoples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism" rel="nofollow - into their own religious practice .


Posted By: ajzhyder
Date Posted: 04 May 2018 at 8:45pm
https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2018/05/04/recognize-groups-by-their-behaviors-not-by-their-labels/The%20link%20to%20above%20article%20reviews%20the%20character%20traits%20of%20different%20groups%20by%20their%20behaviors%20as defined%20in%20Quran%20and%20not%20by%20their%20birth%20and%20not%20by%20the%20labels%20they%20put%20on%20themselves.%20Those%20people%20who%20are%20Jews%20according%20Quran,%20are%20those who%20exhibit%20the%20behavior%20of%20Jews%20as%20defined%20in%20Quran.%20 " rel="nofollow - https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2018/05/04/recognize-groups-by-their-behaviors-not-by-their-labels/


Posted By: Al Masihi
Date Posted: 05 May 2018 at 1:17am
Oneness of God is alright, but which god, even pagans can be monotheistic doesn’t necessarily make it right. Muslims do not follow the God of Abraham, Muslims by definition submit to the will of Allah (an Arab god of Pagan origins) and to his prophet Mohammed. Please tell me where any of the prophets described the word Islam which transcribes to the Hebrew word האסלאם. Anyone can claim to submit to any god, by that definition Mani and Bahá'u'lláh are also Islamic prophets.


Posted By: ajzhyder
Date Posted: 06 May 2018 at 9:19am

God is the creator of the Universe and the sustainer of it. The God who Muslims serve, is definitely the God of Abraham. Had it not been so, in Quran, God would not have named His religion, ‘the religion of Abraham’. See link to post on below site:

https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com

In Quran, we come to know about the God who created the Heavens and Earth and He put every thing in there for sustenance of his creations. He sent His Prophets along with His Book for the guidance of mankind. He sent Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron, Zakariya, John, Jesus and Elias, Isma'il , Elisha, Jonas, and Lot and others. (6:81-88). Those people who received the message of God and understood it, will be judged by Him and will be held accountable for their deeds in the world.

There could be a lot of difference between perception and reality about God and Mohammad. If we assume that Quran was written by Mohammad instead of being revealed from God , then main purpose of Mohammad should have been to obtain glory for himself by pretending a prophet of God. However, we find in reading the Quran that the focus is on God alone, not on Mohammad. Mohammad is mentioned even far less times in Quran than other messengers e.g Mooses, Abraham and Jesus. Name of Mohammad is mentioned only a miniscule amount of time. Had Mohammad been the personality type that the people believe him to be and he be after false glory, he would have mentioned himself the most in Quran. Instead we find word Mohammad mentioned only 4 times in Quran and word Ahmed as 1 time.



Posted By: JerryMyers
Date Posted: 06 May 2018 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Oneness of God is alright, but which god, even pagans can be monotheistic doesn’t necessarily make it right.


Pagans are not monotheistic, pagans are polytheistic.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Muslims do not follow the God of Abraham, Muslims by definition submit to the will of Allah (an Arab god of Pagan origins) and to his prophet Mohammed.


Muslims do not submit to the will of the Prophet, Muslims only submit to the Will of God Almighty. In contrast, altho’ they may not admit it, Christians do not submit to the Will of God but, they submit to the will of Jesus Christ whom they claim to be equal to God Himself.

I suggest you stop reading anti-Islamic materials and read the Quran instead to understand Islam, just as I would advise anyone to read the Bible to understand Christianity. Before accusing other faiths of paganism, you should google your own Christianity faith relationship with paganism first.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Please tell me where any of the prophets described the word Islam which transcribes to the Hebrew word האסלאם.


As I have said, the word or the name is not important, but, what the word or name represent does. Again, by definition, Islam means total submission to the Will of God Almighty and a Muslim, by definition, is one who do and submit to the Will of God. The terms 'Islam' and 'Muslim' might not have existed in the times of Jesus, but do you think Jesus did not do and submit to the Will of God ??

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Anyone can claim to submit to any god, by that definition Mani and Bahá'u'lláh are also Islamic prophets.


Mani and Bahá'u'lláh are NOT Islamic prophets. Again, you should read the Quran first before making such statements. Do you even understand what true Oneness of God means ?? I can tell you now, a ‘3-in-1’ God IS NOT the definition of true Oneness of God.


Posted By: Al Masihi
Date Posted: 06 May 2018 at 11:01pm
Wrong Zoroastrianism is considered Monotheistic so is Hinduism in a way, yet all are pagan religions. Yeah I’ve researched all Islamic claims of Christianity habeing pagan roots in my days as a Muslim, I challenge you to bring me proofs of paganism that I cannot refute. Baha’i and Mani submitted to the will to Hod weren’t they Muslims? Islam doesn’t mean total submission to God, the only way to actually enter Islam is not to just swear God is one, but also swear mohammed is his prophet. To enter Islam you cannot just swear God is one without swearing Mohammed’s prophethood. Not to mention you mention his name in every prayer and have to continuously say peace be upon him when ever his name is mentioned. Jesus did the will of the God the Father not a pagan god of Arabia. On the contrary the name matters since all the prophets were Muslims, I’ll now ask for historical proof that Islam isn’t just Judeo-Christian mythology mixed with pagan practices and Zoroastrian theology, also the Quran mentions the prophets were Muslims and said la ilah ila Allah and were Muslims, the website of Osama Abdullah also says the prophets preached in Arabic. Can you give me verses in the Bible where the prophets were saying la ilah ila Allah wa Mohammed rasul Allah in those clear words, since your saying they were Muslims and Muslims usually always say these words, and your talking about the prophets so if this is what they were preaching then why is there no mention of it until an Arab pagan comes way after and claims prophethood?


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 07 May 2018 at 11:12am
Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


You are right – there’s no such thing as ‘a religion’ or ‘a Muslim’ or ‘a Christian’ in the time of Abraham or Jesus – what they had was a relationship with God.

However, Islam by definition means submission to the Will of God and a Muslim is one who do and submit to the Will of God. In other words, the name does not define who you are, BUT, the action does. So when Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 7:21, he’s actually saying only the Muslims (those who do the Will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Did Abraham and Jesus do and submit themselves to the Will of God ? Yes, they did, so, by definition, they are Muslims.


 
Well then Muhammad didn't hear that Christians,Jews.Nabteans and Sabaens said to him that were already muslims.


He don't have to hear from them – he knows those who believe in the true oneness of God and do/submit to the Will of God are Muslims.
 
I thought Muhammad was thee founder of islam sorry.


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


You are right – there’s no such thing as ‘a religion’ or ‘a Muslim’ or ‘a Christian’ in the time of Abraham or Jesus – what they had was a relationship with God.

However, Islam by definition means submission to the Will of God and a Muslim is one who do and submit to the Will of God. In other words, the name does not define who you are, BUT, the action does. So when Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 7:21, he’s actually saying only the Muslims (those who do the Will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Did Abraham and Jesus do and submit themselves to the Will of God ? Yes, they did, so, by definition, they are Muslims.


 
Well then Muhammad didn't hear that Christians,Jews.Nabteans and Sabaens said to him that were already muslims.


He don't have to hear from them – he knows those who believe in the true oneness of God and do/submit to the Will of God are Muslims.
 
I thought Muhammad was thee founder of islam sorry.

Prophet Muhammad is not the founder of Islam, but he is the recipient of the teachings of Islam (the Tawheed religion) ie worship only to one God, just as the religion was given to all Prophets before.

 إِنَّ هٰذِهِۦٓ �£ُمَّتُكُمْ �£ُمَّةً وٰحِدَةً وَ�£َنَا۠ رَبُّكُمْ فَاعْبُدُونِ ﴿ال�£نبياء:٩٢

“Verily, this Tauheed religion is one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me (Alone). – (Al Anbiya 21:92)

 وَمَآ �£َرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا نُوحِىٓ إِلَيْهِ �£َنَّهُۥ لَآ إِلٰهَ إِلَّآ �£َنَا۠ فَاعْبُدُونِ ﴿ال�£نبياء:٢٥

“And We did not send any Messenger before you (O Muhammad), but We revealed to him: La ilaha illa ana (none has the right to be worshipped but I (Allah), so worship Me (Alone and none else).” (Al Anbiya 21:25)

The word 'Islam' comes from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered to Allah, and from the word Salima "that is to obtain salvation from Allah. Thus Islam implies surrender to Allah, and who is worshiped only Allah in order to obtain salvation, both in the world and in the hereafter. And those who practice Islam are called Muslims or people of Islam. Here is some evidence that the Prophets were Muslims:

Prophet Ibrahim and Prophet Ya'qub.

 وَوَصَّىٰ بِهَآ إِبْرٰهِيْمُ بَنِيهِ وَيَعْقُوبُ يٰبَنِىَّ إِنَّ اللهَ اصْطَفَىٰ لَكُمُ الدِّينَ فَلَا تَمُوتُنَّ إِلَّا وَ�£َنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ :١�£٢

“And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) (saying: ‘O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam.” (Al Baqarah 2:132)

Prophet Noah has asked his people to become Muslims, here is the authentic proof.

 فَإِن تَوَلَّيْتُمْ فَمَا سَ�£َلْتُكُم مِّنْ �£َجْرٍ ۖ إِنْ �£َجْرِىَ إِلَّا عَلَى اللهِ ۖ وَ�£ُمِرْتُ �£َنْ �£َكُونَ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ ﴿يونس:٧٢

“But if you turn away from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims.” (Yunus 10:72)

Prophet Moses:

 وَقَالَ مُوسَىٰ يٰقَوْمِ إِن كُنتُمْ ءَامَنتُم بِاللهِ فَعَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلُوٓا۟ إِن كُنتُم مُّسْلِمِينَ ﴿يونس:٨٤

“And Moses said: O my people! If you have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims.”

(Yunus 10:84)

Prophet Isa (Jesus):

 وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يٰبَنِىٓ إِسْرٰٓءِيلَ اعْبُدُوا۟ اللهَ رَبِّى وَرَبَّكُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُۥ مَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللهُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَ�£ْوَىٰهُ النَّارُ ۖ وَمَا لِلظّٰلِمِينَ مِنْ �£َنصَارٍ ﴿المائدة:٧٢

“And Jesus said: ‘O Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, the Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no helpers.” (Al Maidah 5:72)



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 01 June 2018 at 5:32am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me help you out here Abram did not have a religion he had a relationship with God.
If Abram was a muslim then all the jews must be muslims and Isreal been an islamic state, and the world would have already been dominated by muslims then there wouldn't be the need of any other prophet after Abram.


You are right – there’s no such thing as ‘a religion’ or ‘a Muslim’ or ‘a Christian’ in the time of Abraham or Jesus – what they had was a relationship with God.

However, Islam by definition means submission to the Will of God and a Muslim is one who do and submit to the Will of God. In other words, the name does not define who you are, BUT, the action does. So when Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” – Matthew 7:21, he’s actually saying only the Muslims (those who do the Will of God) will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Did Abraham and Jesus do and submit themselves to the Will of God ? Yes, they did, so, by definition, they are Muslims.


 
Well then Muhammad didn't hear that Christians,Jews.Nabteans and Sabaens said to him that were already muslims.


He don't have to hear from them – he knows those who believe in the true oneness of God and do/submit to the Will of God are Muslims.
 
I thought Muhammad was thee founder of islam sorry.

Prophet Muhammad is not the founder of Islam, but he is the recipient of the teachings of Islam (the Tawheed religion) ie worship only to one God, just as the religion was given to all Prophets before.

 إِنَّ هٰذِهِۦٓ �£ُمَّتُكُمْ �£ُمَّةً وٰحِدَةً وَ�£َنَا۠ رَبُّكُمْ فَاعْبُدُونِ ﴿ال�£نبياء:٩٢

“Verily, this Tauheed religion is one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me (Alone). – (Al Anbiya 21:92)

 وَمَآ �£َرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا نُوحِىٓ إِلَيْهِ �£َنَّهُۥ لَآ إِلٰهَ إِلَّآ �£َنَا۠ فَاعْبُدُونِ ﴿ال�£نبياء:٢٥

“And We did not send any Messenger before you (O Muhammad), but We revealed to him: La ilaha illa ana (none has the right to be worshipped but I (Allah), so worship Me (Alone and none else).” (Al Anbiya 21:25)

The word 'Islam' comes from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered to Allah, and from the word Salima "that is to obtain salvation from Allah. Thus Islam implies surrender to Allah, and who is worshiped only Allah in order to obtain salvation, both in the world and in the hereafter. And those who practice Islam are called Muslims or people of Islam. Here is some evidence that the Prophets were Muslims:

Prophet Ibrahim and Prophet Ya'qub.

 وَوَصَّىٰ بِهَآ إِبْرٰهِيْمُ بَنِيهِ وَيَعْقُوبُ يٰبَنِىَّ إِنَّ اللهَ اصْطَفَىٰ لَكُمُ الدِّينَ فَلَا تَمُوتُنَّ إِلَّا وَ�£َنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ :١�£٢

“And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) (saying: ‘O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam.” (Al Baqarah 2:132)

Prophet Noah has asked his people to become Muslims, here is the authentic proof.

 فَإِن تَوَلَّيْتُمْ فَمَا سَ�£َلْتُكُم مِّنْ �£َجْرٍ ۖ إِنْ �£َجْرِىَ إِلَّا عَلَى اللهِ ۖ وَ�£ُمِرْتُ �£َنْ �£َكُونَ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ ﴿يونس:٧٢

“But if you turn away from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims.” (Yunus 10:72)

Prophet Moses:

 وَقَالَ مُوسَىٰ يٰقَوْمِ إِن كُنتُمْ ءَامَنتُم بِاللهِ فَعَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلُوٓا۟ إِن كُنتُم مُّسْلِمِينَ ﴿يونس:٨٤

“And Moses said: O my people! If you have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims.”

(Yunus 10:84)

Prophet Isa (Jesus):

 وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يٰبَنِىٓ إِسْرٰٓءِيلَ اعْبُدُوا۟ اللهَ رَبِّى وَرَبَّكُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُۥ مَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللهُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَ�£ْوَىٰهُ النَّارُ ۖ وَمَا لِلظّٰلِمِينَ مِنْ �£َنصَارٍ ﴿المائدة:٧٢

“And Jesus said: ‘O Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, the Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no helpers.” (Al Maidah 5:72)

You said
Prophet Muhammad is not the founder of Islam, but he is the recipient of the teachings of Islam (the Tawheed religion) ie worship only to one God, just as the religion was given to all Prophets before.
 
Who was then the first muslim or first muslim Prophet if Muhammad wasn't the founder of Islam.
Was Adam the first muslim?
 
According to several passages in the Quran, Muhammad was the first Muslim.
 

Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. S. 6:14 Pickthall

Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion. This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale

He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163

This is contradicted by both the Quran and various Islamic traditions which refer to the presence of true believers both before and during Muhammad’s alleged "call" to prophethood. The Quran mentions that Adam, Noah, the Patriarchs, the twelve tribes of Israel, Moses, Jesus etc., were all believers and many of them even messengers who lived a long time before Muhammad:
 


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 10 June 2018 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

[QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 

Sorry, I just can reply because of busyness in the month of Ramadan.

I say once again that Prophet Muhammad was not the first inventor and founder of Islam.

In this case you must know and understand what is the meaning of the word Islam?

The word 'Islam' is derived from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered to Allah, and from the word "Salima" is to obtain salvation from Allah. Thus Islam implies:

Submission to Allah, and worship only to Allah in order to obtain salvation from Him.

And those who practice Islamic sharia are called "Muslims"

From the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who invite his people to Allah and surrender only to Allah. (Quran 21:92)

Truly! This Tauheed religion (Islamic Monotheism) is the religion of your ummah (followers), the one religion, and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me.”

Here are some evidence that the Prophets were people who submitted to Allah (Muslim):

Prophet Noah, he has invited his people to be Muslims, (Quran 10:72)

“But if you turn away (from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah), then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allah’s Will).”

Prophet Abraham and Prophet Jacob. (Quran 2:132)

And this submission to Allah (Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) saying: ‘O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam’.”

Prophet Ibrahim is known as the father of the Prophets, automatically, his 'Tauheed' will also followed by the next Prophets.

Prophet Musa (Moses). (Quran 10:84)

“And Musa (Moses) said: ’O my people! If you have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims’.”

Prophet Isa (Jesus). (Quran 5:72)

“....But the Messiah Isa (Jesus) said: ‘ O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no helpers’.”

In conclusion, all the Prophets are those who submit to Allah and who are worshiped only Allah, means they are Muslims.

That's all my belief in the Qur'an, anyone can have other opinion, therefore, one's faith should not be forced because only Allah who has the “Hidayah" (Guidance).

My principle in religion is, firstly I must understand the Quran to always follow the truth from Allah. (6:153)

“And verily, this Quran is My Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not other paths, for there will separate you away from His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious).”

The Quran 39:9

“.....say: ‘Are those who know equal to those who know not? verily, only those who have common sense are willing to accept the lesson (get lesson from Allah’s Signs and Verses of the Quran).”

So, Prophet Muhammad is not a liar.




Posted By: ajzhyder
Date Posted: 10 June 2018 at 8:38pm
Allah ask Mohammad to say :
 
46:9  Say (O' Mohammad) "I am no bringer of new doctrine among the Messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."
 
When the Ayats/signs of God,  comes to one and he believes and submits to them without hesitation, then he becomes the first to submit/become muslim to these Ayas/signs and this process keeps on repeating in all times.
 


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 12 June 2018 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

[QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 

Sorry, I just can reply because of busyness in the month of Ramadan.

I say once again that Prophet Muhammad was not the first inventor and founder of Islam.

In this case you must know and understand what is the meaning of the word Islam?

The word 'Islam' is derived from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered to Allah, and from the word "Salima" is to obtain salvation from Allah. Thus Islam implies:

Submission to Allah, and worship only to Allah in order to obtain salvation from Him.

And those who practice Islamic sharia are called "Muslims"

From the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who invite his people to Allah and surrender only to Allah. (Quran 21:92)

Truly! This Tauheed religion (Islamic Monotheism) is the religion of your ummah (followers), the one religion, and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me.”

Here are some evidence that the Prophets were people who submitted to Allah (Muslim):

Prophet Noah, he has invited his people to be Muslims, (Quran 10:72)

“But if you turn away (from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah), then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allah’s Will).”

Prophet Abraham and Prophet Jacob. (Quran 2:132)

And this submission to Allah (Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) saying: ‘O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam’.”

Prophet Ibrahim is known as the father of the Prophets, automatically, his 'Tauheed' will also followed by the next Prophets.

Prophet Musa (Moses). (Quran 10:84)

“And Musa (Moses) said: ’O my people! If you have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims’.”

Prophet Isa (Jesus). (Quran 5:72)

“....But the Messiah Isa (Jesus) said: ‘ O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no helpers’.”

In conclusion, all the Prophets are those who submit to Allah and who are worshiped only Allah, means they are Muslims.

That's all my belief in the Qur'an, anyone can have other opinion, therefore, one's faith should not be forced because only Allah who has the “Hidayah" (Guidance).

My principle in religion is, firstly I must understand the Quran to always follow the truth from Allah. (6:153)

“And verily, this Quran is My Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not other paths, for there will separate you away from His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious).”

The Quran 39:9

“.....say: ‘Are those who know equal to those who know not? verily, only those who have common sense are willing to accept the lesson (get lesson from Allah’s Signs and Verses of the Quran).”

So, Prophet Muhammad is not a liar.


 
Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time which he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.
The rest is not God's word a k a Allah.
The Quran is not the truth of Allah or any god, but it was only from Muhammad.
No Angel of God would dare to start a new religion after Jesus except the Satan.


Posted By: JerryMyers
Date Posted: 25 June 2018 at 7:00am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time which he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.
The rest is not God's word a k a Allah.
The Quran is not the truth of Allah or any god, but it was only from Muhammad.
No Angel of God would dare to start a new religion after Jesus except the Satan.


What makes you think Islam is a new religion ?? Can you prove the basic teaching of Jesus (or the prophets before him) are different from Islam ?? Did Jesus preach that God Almighty is a ‘3-in-1’ God ?? Did Jesus (or the prophets before him) preach the concept of original sin ??
If Jesus and none of the prophets before him ever preached a ‘3-in-1’ God nor did they preach the concept of original sin, then, it’s clear that whoever started Christianity was inspired by Satan whose main objective is to draw mankind away from God Almighty and in Christianity, Satan succeeded in doing just that as billions of Christians took Jesus Christ as their savior when they should turn to God Almighty as their only sole savior – “I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from Me there is no savior” – Isaiah 43:11


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 25 June 2018 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

[QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 

Sorry, I just can reply because of busyness in the month of Ramadan.

I say once again that Prophet Muhammad was not the first inventor and founder of Islam.

In this case you must know and understand what is the meaning of the word Islam?

The word 'Islam' is derived from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered to Allah, and from the word "Salima" is to obtain salvation from Allah. Thus Islam implies:

Submission to Allah, and worship only to Allah in order to obtain salvation from Him.

And those who practice Islamic sharia are called "Muslims"

From the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who invite his people to Allah and surrender only to Allah. (Quran 21:92)

Truly! This Tauheed religion (Islamic Monotheism) is the religion of your ummah (followers), the one religion, and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me.”

Here are some evidence that the Prophets were people who submitted to Allah (Muslim):

Prophet Noah, he has invited his people to be Muslims, (Quran 10:72)

“But if you turn away (from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah), then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allah’s Will).”

Prophet Abraham and Prophet Jacob. (Quran 2:132)

And this submission to Allah (Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) saying: ‘O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam’.”

Prophet Ibrahim is known as the father of the Prophets, automatically, his 'Tauheed' will also followed by the next Prophets.

Prophet Musa (Moses). (Quran 10:84)

“And Musa (Moses) said: ’O my people! If you have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims’.”

Prophet Isa (Jesus). (Quran 5:72)

“....But the Messiah Isa (Jesus) said: ‘ O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no helpers’.”

In conclusion, all the Prophets are those who submit to Allah and who are worshiped only Allah, means they are Muslims.

That's all my belief in the Qur'an, anyone can have other opinion, therefore, one's faith should not be forced because only Allah who has the “Hidayah" (Guidance).

My principle in religion is, firstly I must understand the Quran to always follow the truth from Allah. (6:153)

“And verily, this Quran is My Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not other paths, for there will separate you away from His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious).”

The Quran 39:9

“.....say: ‘Are those who know equal to those who know not? verily, only those who have common sense are willing to accept the lesson (get lesson from Allah’s Signs and Verses of the Quran).”

So, Prophet Muhammad is not a liar.


 
Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time which he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.
The rest is not God's word a k a Allah.
The Quran is not the truth of Allah or any god, but it was only from Muhammad.
No Angel of God would dare to start a new religion after Jesus except the Satan.

Peace maker,

You said: “Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time”

If I noticed from your words it seems that your knowledge of the Qur'an as already surpassed the real Muslim scholars. Now I want to ask you how much you know about the history of the Qur'an:

1.    What date was the Quran revealed? please prove it with the proposition.

2.  You said: “he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.” Please provide the proof (not personal opinion), because in this day, people will not believe without evidence that can be trusted or rational.

The principle in Islam is only to convey the truths from God (Allah), while for those who do not want to accept it, it is the right of person, because the teachings of Islam forbid to force a person to become Muslim, only Allah who can give Hidayah (guidance) to anyone whom He wants, or it may be for those who do not want to accept His teachings is a sunnatullah (the will of God) as in His word.




Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 28 June 2018 at 9:10am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

[QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 

Sorry, I just can reply because of busyness in the month of Ramadan.

I say once again that Prophet Muhammad was not the first inventor and founder of Islam.

In this case you must know and understand what is the meaning of the word Islam?

The word 'Islam' is derived from the word "Aslama" which is surrendered to Allah, and from the word "Salima" is to obtain salvation from Allah. Thus Islam implies:

Submission to Allah, and worship only to Allah in order to obtain salvation from Him.

And those who practice Islamic sharia are called "Muslims"

From the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who invite his people to Allah and surrender only to Allah. (Quran 21:92)

Truly! This Tauheed religion (Islamic Monotheism) is the religion of your ummah (followers), the one religion, and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me.”

Here are some evidence that the Prophets were people who submitted to Allah (Muslim):

Prophet Noah, he has invited his people to be Muslims, (Quran 10:72)

“But if you turn away (from accepting my doctrine of Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allah), then no reward have I asked of you, my reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims (i.e. those who submit to Allah’s Will).”

Prophet Abraham and Prophet Jacob. (Quran 2:132)

And this submission to Allah (Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya’qub (Jacob) saying: ‘O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the true religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam’.”

Prophet Ibrahim is known as the father of the Prophets, automatically, his 'Tauheed' will also followed by the next Prophets.

Prophet Musa (Moses). (Quran 10:84)

“And Musa (Moses) said: ’O my people! If you have believed in Allah, then put your trust in Him if you are Muslims’.”

Prophet Isa (Jesus). (Quran 5:72)

“....But the Messiah Isa (Jesus) said: ‘ O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrong-doers there are no helpers’.”

In conclusion, all the Prophets are those who submit to Allah and who are worshiped only Allah, means they are Muslims.

That's all my belief in the Qur'an, anyone can have other opinion, therefore, one's faith should not be forced because only Allah who has the “Hidayah" (Guidance).

My principle in religion is, firstly I must understand the Quran to always follow the truth from Allah. (6:153)

“And verily, this Quran is My Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not other paths, for there will separate you away from His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious).”

The Quran 39:9

“.....say: ‘Are those who know equal to those who know not? verily, only those who have common sense are willing to accept the lesson (get lesson from Allah’s Signs and Verses of the Quran).”

So, Prophet Muhammad is not a liar.


 
Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time which he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.
The rest is not God's word a k a Allah.
The Quran is not the truth of Allah or any god, but it was only from Muhammad.
No Angel of God would dare to start a new religion after Jesus except the Satan.

Peace maker,

You said: “Let me remind you the Quran was revealed in the month of ramadan which was already a well established pagan ritual long before Muhammad's time”

If I noticed from your words it seems that your knowledge of the Qur'an as already surpassed the real Muslim scholars. Now I want to ask you how much you know about the history of the Qur'an:

1.    What date was the Quran revealed? please prove it with the proposition.

2.  You said: “he incorparated into islam to make it a holy so called godly practise what he have stolen from the pagans.” Please provide the proof (not personal opinion), because in this day, people will not believe without evidence that can be trusted or rational.

The principle in Islam is only to convey the truths from God (Allah), while for those who do not want to accept it, it is the right of person, because the teachings of Islam forbid to force a person to become Muslim, only Allah who can give Hidayah (guidance) to anyone whom He wants, or it may be for those who do not want to accept His teachings is a sunnatullah (the will of God) as in His word.


Some historians claimed its in 22 December 609 and some claim its in the month of Ramadan the last ten days in one the odd nights of Ramadan.
Your own own holy books proof it not mine.
 
Sahih means authentic Bukhari Volume 2,Book 26 Number 689.
Narrated Abu Huraira: in the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allah's Apostle made AbU Bakr the leader of the pilgrims,the (Abu Bakr)sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year,and no no naked person is allowed to perform the Tawaf of the Kaba.
 

Some of Muhammad's closest followers didn't like to perform the Saee of al-Safa and al-Marwah, for example, because they knew it had been a ritual of Arabian jinn-devil worship:

Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710 Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.'" (2.158)

The vast majority of Muhammad's followers have not bothered to investigate where the tradition of Ramadan came from other than to believe that, like everything else in Islam, Muhammad engaged in it and/or instructed his followers to.

"Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar and the rigid observance of thirty days of fasting during the daylight hours, has pagan roots developed in India and the Middle East. The observance of fasting to honor the moon, and ending the fast when the moon’s crescent appears, was practiced with the rituals of the Eastern worshippers of the moon. Both Ibn al-Nadim and the Shahrastani tell us about  al-Jandrikinieh, an Indian sect which began to fast when the moon disappeared and ended the fast with a great feast when the crescent reappeared.

"In Mecca, the Ahnaf were called Sabians because of the doctrines they embraced. Later, when Mohammed claimed to be a prophet, he was called a Sabian by the inhabitants of Mecca because they saw him performing many Sabian rites which included praying five times a day; performing several movements in prayer that were identical with the Mandaeans and the Harranians; and making ablution, or ceremonial washing, before each prayer. In the Qur'an, Mohammed called the Sabians “people of the book” like the Jews and Christians.

Ramadan was a pagan ceremony practiced by the Sabians, whether they were Harranians or Sabians. From the writings of Abu Zanad, an Arabic writer from Iraq who lived around 747 A.D., we conclude that at least one Mandaean community located in northern Iraq observed Ramadan.

What the pagans revealed to Muhammad instantly changed to one of Allah’s revelations.



Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 09 July 2018 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

[QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 


Peace maker,

Indeed, what you describe is all in the history, the worship ritual performed by Muslims which is exemplified by the Prophet Muhammad is a ritual of worship in accordance with the command of Allah, although it seems the same as the pagan ritual.

They (pagans) also worshiped their gods around the Ka'ba, but all the ritual polytheism was straightened out by the Prophet Muhammad become a 'Tauheed" ritual (there is no god except Allah). It is as the same as what had been done by all the Prophets before, such as salah (prayer), all the prophets perform the prayers as Muslims do now, which the different is only in the time of execution and the number of its salah.

Ramadan is just the name of the moon, whatever the community that performs religious rituals on that month no one forbids, but for Muslims have a guidance directly from their God. Similarly with fasting, other prophets are also doing fasting as commanded by God. Muslims do worship not because of imitating pagan but because of the command of Allah as the same as all Prophets did.

Prophet Muhammad is the successor of the monotheistic religions of the previous Prophets whose teachings have been completed by Allah as a warning to the whole of nature as in His word.

Some people say that Islam is a new religion, but for me, Islam is the religion that first appeared on the surface of this earth since the Prophet Adam 'alaihissalam.




Posted By: fatimunnisa
Date Posted: 10 July 2018 at 6:28am
It is said that Ibrahim-aale-salaam was grand father of our Prophet Mohammed (saw)
and our Nabi(saw) met him on the 7th sky in the night shab-e-Meraj mubarak.

So Ibrahim aale salaam is special as we recite Durood-e-ibraheem in our every salaah
it shows Allah granted him dignity.
And he is a special Prophet
But our Prophet Mohammed (SAW) IS SUPERIOR TO ALL
FIRST AND THE LAST PROPHET OF ALLAH


Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 10 July 2018 at 6:38am
Asep's speculation, "Some people say that Islam is a new religion, but for me, Islam is the religion that first appeared on the surface of this earth since the Prophet Adam 'alaihissalam. " is supported by Genesis 14:17-18 and the blessing of Abraham by Melchizedek, the priest/king of Salem.

This act of blessing by a priest can only be interpreted as a formal religious system extant before Judaism. Asep may well be correct from a Christian perspective.




-------------
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 10 July 2018 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

[QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 


Peace maker,

Indeed, what you describe is all in the history, the worship ritual performed by Muslims which is exemplified by the Prophet Muhammad is a ritual of worship in accordance with the command of Allah, although it seems the same as the pagan ritual.

They (pagans) also worshiped their gods around the Ka'ba, but all the ritual polytheism was straightened out by the Prophet Muhammad become a 'Tauheed" ritual (there is no god except Allah). It is as the same as what had been done by all the Prophets before, such as salah (prayer), all the prophets perform the prayers as Muslims do now, which the different is only in the time of execution and the number of its salah.

Ramadan is just the name of the moon, whatever the community that performs religious rituals on that month no one forbids, but for Muslims have a guidance directly from their God. Similarly with fasting, other prophets are also doing fasting as commanded by God. Muslims do worship not because of imitating pagan but because of the command of Allah as the same as all Prophets did.

Prophet Muhammad is the successor of the monotheistic religions of the previous Prophets whose teachings have been completed by Allah as a warning to the whole of nature as in His word.

Some people say that Islam is a new religion, but for me, Islam is the religion that first appeared on the surface of this earth since the Prophet Adam 'alaihissalam.


There was no Hajj, Ramadaan or Kabaa and any isalmic practices in the Bible what you want to tell its right use pagan practises in God's religion then why didn't Elijah incorporated the Baal rituals into the Jewis religion.
 
1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink from the cup of the Lord,and the cup of devils:you cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
 
  

1 Corinthians 10:21 Context

Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?  What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.  Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?  All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

So this explain in detail to yo what the pagans had sacificed in Muhammad's time was to devils.

This also explained that there can not and will not be any Prophet after Jesus so stop wasting your time.

Hebrews 1.

God’s Final Word: His Son

 

 

IN THE PAST GOD SPOKE TO US  ANCESTORS  THROUGH THE   PROPHETS AT MANY TIMES AND IN VARIOUS WAYS BUT IN THESE LAST DAYS HE HAS  SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON THROUGH WHOM HE APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, AND THROUGH WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE UNIVERSE.

THE SON IS THE RADIANCE OF GOD'S GLORY AND THE EXACT REPRESENTION OF HIS BEING, SUSTAINING ALL THINGS BY HIS POWERFULL WORD AFTER HE HAD PROVIDED PURIFICATION OR SINS, HE SAT  DOWN AT THE RIGHT OF GOD OF THE MAJESTY IN HEAVEN.   SO HE BECAME AS MUCH SUPERIOUR TO THE ANGELS AS THE NAME HE HE HAS INHERITED IS SUPERIOUR  TO THEIRS.

The Son Superiour to Angels.

 For which of the angels did God ever say You are my Son today I have become your Father.

Or again I will be his Father and he will be my Son.

 

Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Joh 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

Joh 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Joh 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Joh 8:57  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Joh 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.



Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 12 July 2018 at 1:04am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

[QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=asep garut][QUOTE=Peace maker][QUOTE=JerryMyers]
 


Peace maker,

Indeed, what you describe is all in the history, the worship ritual performed by Muslims which is exemplified by the Prophet Muhammad is a ritual of worship in accordance with the command of Allah, although it seems the same as the pagan ritual.

They (pagans) also worshiped their gods around the Ka'ba, but all the ritual polytheism was straightened out by the Prophet Muhammad become a 'Tauheed" ritual (there is no god except Allah). It is as the same as what had been done by all the Prophets before, such as salah (prayer), all the prophets perform the prayers as Muslims do now, which the different is only in the time of execution and the number of its salah.

Ramadan is just the name of the moon, whatever the community that performs religious rituals on that month no one forbids, but for Muslims have a guidance directly from their God. Similarly with fasting, other prophets are also doing fasting as commanded by God. Muslims do worship not because of imitating pagan but because of the command of Allah as the same as all Prophets did.

Prophet Muhammad is the successor of the monotheistic religions of the previous Prophets whose teachings have been completed by Allah as a warning to the whole of nature as in His word.

Some people say that Islam is a new religion, but for me, Islam is the religion that first appeared on the surface of this earth since the Prophet Adam 'alaihissalam.


There was no Hajj, Ramadaan or Kabaa and any isalmic practices in the Bible what you want to tell its right use pagan practises in God's religion then why didn't Elijah incorporated the Baal rituals into the Jewis religion.
 
1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink from the cup of the Lord,and the cup of devils:you cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
 
  

1 Corinthians 10:21 Context

Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?  What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.  Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?  All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

So this explain in detail to yo what the pagans had sacificed in Muhammad's time was to devils.

This also explained that there can not and will not be any Prophet after Jesus so stop wasting your time.

Hebrews 1.

God’s Final Word: His Son

 

 

IN THE PAST GOD SPOKE TO US  ANCESTORS  THROUGH THE   PROPHETS AT MANY TIMES AND IN VARIOUS WAYS BUT IN THESE LAST DAYS HE HAS  SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON THROUGH WHOM HE APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, AND THROUGH WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE UNIVERSE.

THE SON IS THE RADIANCE OF GOD'S GLORY AND THE EXACT REPRESENTION OF HIS BEING, SUSTAINING ALL THINGS BY HIS POWERFULL WORD AFTER HE HAD PROVIDED PURIFICATION OR SINS, HE SAT  DOWN AT THE RIGHT OF GOD OF THE MAJESTY IN HEAVEN.   SO HE BECAME AS MUCH SUPERIOUR TO THE ANGELS AS THE NAME HE HE HAS INHERITED IS SUPERIOUR  TO THEIRS.

The Son Superiour to Angels.

 For which of the angels did God ever say You are my Son today I have become your Father.

Or again I will be his Father and he will be my Son.

 

Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Joh 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

Joh 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Joh 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Joh 8:57  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Joh 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Peace maker,

In Islam, what you describe is the same as the hadith, and I am not so sure that it'll the same as in other places.

In contrast to the Qur'an, in the whole world there is definitely an its original language, so every one makes a fake Qur'an will be detected (sooner or later). And if there is an error, it is only in translation into the language of each country.

You said: “So this explain in detail to yo what the pagans had sacificed in Muhammad's time was to devils.

That is precisely where Prophet Muhammad has straightened them from pagans to monotheism (Tauheed Religion), although the ka'bah is the same, etc.

You said:This also explained that there can not and will not be any Prophet after Jesus so stop wasting your time.

Such explanations only came from people, like you, in contrast to the word of Allah in Qur'an 33:40

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last (end) of the Prophets. And Allah is Ever All-Aware of everything.”

 

Therefore, I will not waste my time, instead I always follow what Allah says until I die. Qur'an 18: 103,104,105

Say (O Muhammad): ‘Shall I tell you the greatest losers in respect of their deeds ? (103)

Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life while they thought that they were acquiring good by their deeds. (104)

They are those who deny the verses of their Lord and the meeting with Him (in the Hereafter). So their works are in vain, and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall assign no weight for them. (105)”




Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 13 July 2018 at 2:57pm
Asep.
 
The QURAN was not God's word its Muhammad's words and he was not a prophet clear and easy to refute.
 
 

I AM the Bread of Life

 I am the Bread of Life. Your fathers did eat manna in the 

wilderness, and are dead. This is the Bread which comes down 

from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 

 

I am the Living Bread which came down from heaven. If any man 

eat of this Bread, he shall live forever, and the bread that I will 

give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 

 

The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, "How can 

this man give us His flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, 

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, except you eat the flesh of the Son 

of Man, and drink His Blood, you have no life in you. Whoso eats 

My flesh, and drinks my Blood has eternal life, and I will raise him 

up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is 

drink indeed. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells 

in Me, and I in Him. 

 

As the Living Father has sent Me, and I live by the Father, so he 

that eats Me, even he shall live by Me. This is that bread which 

came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, 

and are dead. He that eats of this Bread shall live forever. (John 

6:48-58) 

 

     Seven times in the gospel of John, Jesus makes an "I am"

statement. He refers to Himself by saying such things as: "I AM

the resurrection and the life." These "I am" statements tell us

much about the nature and character of Christ; His purpose and

His way of working with us. They are reminescent of the time

when God told Abraham His name. He said His name was, "I

AM." Among other things, this showed God to be the eternal, all

knowing, one and only God.

     In the sixth chapter of John, Jesus says, "I am the Bread of

Life." What does this mean for us today? What is Jesus saying

about His relationship to us through that statement?

 

The Living Bread From Heaven 

 

     In the time of Jesus, bread was the staff of life. It symbolized

the source of life because it was the primary means by which

those people survived. So when Jesus said, "I am the Bread of

Life," the people understood the importance He was accruing to

Himself. He was saying, "I am your daily spiritual food. In fact, I

am the only means by which you can live forever."

     To the average Jew, this didn't make much sense. Afterall,

they were God's chosen people. Didn't their calling as such

already endow them with all they needed spiritually? Why did

they need a "bread of life?" They had Moses, Abraham, and the

law. Wasn't this enough?

     You'll notice in John 6 that the Jews keep referring to Moses

and the manna in the wilderness. They had a strong tradition

that it was through the merits of Moses that God fed them with

manna. They had perpetuated this tradition into the idea that it

was their keeping of the law as given through Moses that now

kept them in line for eternal life. So when Jesus said, "Moses

didn't give your fathers the manna. God gave it to them," it didn't

jive with their beliefs. And when He told them the wilderness

manna did not impart eternal life to anyone, it was a blow to their

nationalistic ego. Above all, when He stood there and said, "I AM

the true Bread of Life," it shocked them. He was not only directly

contradicting their beliefs about how they could obtain eternal

life, but He was replacing their law-keeping and adherence to

tradition with HIMSELF.

     Jesus once said, "You search the scriptures because you

think that in them is eternal life. But you will not come to ME."

The Truth here is similar to the one Jesus is presenting in John.

All of our forms of religion and worship, no matter how Bible

based and otherwise profitable they may be, cannot replace HIM.

Jesus Christ is a real, living Person. He is, in fact, so real and

available to us, that He is able to picture Himself as common,

daily bread -- so simple a thing, and yet so vital.

 

Reality in Christ 

 

     It can be a difficult realization for some people, but it is the

Truth: Christianity is not a religion. It is not a list of doctrines to

believe in. It is not even a religion which grew out of the inspired

Word of God. Christianity is a relationship with a Person. It is a

redemptive experience with God through Jesus Christ. It is the

result of what happens when God comes down and makes

Himself one with man.

     This is part of what Jesus was trying to tell us in John 6. He

was saying, "All of your religious exercises, no matter how good

they may be, cannot feed you. I am the Bread of Life. Come to

Me. Eat and drink my flesh and blood."

     Jesus wasn't condemning religious things. But the danger in

those things is that they can serve as a substitute for the real.

God wants us to push past everything which speaks of Christ,

and points to Christ, and reminds us of Christ, to Christ Himself.

He alone is the true Bread.

     If it were possible to trace the history of the Christian church

back to the beginning, we would find that the fundamental

reason it got off the track was that it substituted some form of

"Christian religion" for the Living Christ. This always results in

dead religion and ritual. The only solution is to return to Christ

Himself. For He says, "I am the Living Bread. I alone can feed

you. I alone am your Source of life."

 

Eating and Drinking 

 

     As Jesus began to reveal to the crowds that He was the Bread

of life, they couldn't seem to rid themselves of the notion that He

was speaking about the physical. They took everything He said

literally. Despite the fact that Jesus told them, "The words which I

speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life." (Jn. 6:63), they

continued to interpret Him naturally. Even His own disciples

could not see that He was speaking to them spiritually. As a

result, they could not understand what He meant when He said

He was the Bread of Life. They had no clue as to what He meant

when He said they actually had to "eat" His flesh and "drink" His

Blood.

     For us to understand what Jesus meant, we need only extract

Jesus' own explaination from the passage:

 

He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, 

dwells in Me, and I in him. 

 

     When I eat or drink something, it becomes part of me. Only

that which is waste passes through me. But symbolically, there

would be no waste in eating and drinking the Son of God. All of

Him would become part of me. Thus, when Jesus talks of eating

and drinking His flesh and blood, He is talking about Himself

becoming ONE with us. He is describing a complete intergration

of His being with ours.

     So often we think of Jesus as being "separate" from us, sort of

like He is "way off in heaven." But while Jesus is a separate,

distinct personality and being, and we will always maintain our

individual identity as well, we must never let these facts distort

the reality that we are ONE with Jesus Christ. Indeed, we are so

much ONE with Him that Jesus is able to liken Himself as Bread

and wine which we are to eat and drink.

     Food, as stated, becomes part of us. But it also sustains us,

invading with nourishment every cell of our body. There is no

area of our physical body which is not affected by what we eat

and drink. We've all heard the expression, "You are what you

eat." It is true. Such is the oneness and the continual

co-existance we are to have with the Living Bread.

 

Identification and Communion 

 

     It is not a coincidence that Jesus says, "Except you eat the

flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood, you have no life in

you," and then later uses the same symbolism in instituting the

Lord's Supper. In fact, Paul says, "As often as you eat this Bread

and drink this cup, you do show the Lord's death until He

comes." (I Cor 11:26) The relationship between Jesus as the

Bread of Life, and the Lord's Supper, is a direct one.

     Paul is actually showing us what eating and drinking the flesh

and Blood of Jesus means in a practical sense. He is showing

us that it means more than just an outward proclamation of the

fact Jesus died. Indeed, Paul is saying, "To proclaim the Lord's

death you must allow it to become YOUR death." Not just in

theory. And not merely in doctrinal or ritualistic form. But really.

In other words, REAL communioin means you proclaim the Lord's

death by experiencing His death in YOUR life. The actual

taking of the bread and wine is merely symbolic of that fact.

     So often we think of the death of Christ as a doctrine we must

believe in. But even though doctrine is important, and certainly

vital with regard to the death of Christ, doctrine can't save us. If I

believe every right doctrine there is, those doctrines, and my

belief in them, cannot substitute for experiencing the REALITY

behind them. Such is the case with the death of Christ. I can

proclaim by written or spoken doctrine the death of Christ. I can

even proclaim it by participating in a communion service. But

until His death actually begins to invade ME, and bury my old

man in Adam -- experientially -- I am not really proclaiming

anything. No matter how loud I shout the words.

     The Bible tells us that we are buried with Christ by baptism

into death. It says that we are planted into His death, that is,

"engrafted" into His death. (see Romans 6) It says the same

thing about His resurrection. Therefore, should we not expect

that the death which Jesus experienced would impact us in a

very REAL way? Should we not expect that His death would be

more than a doctrine to believe in, but instead, a death we must

also partake of by experience?

     Yes. In fact, the death of Jesus Christ is to invade every part

of us, just as eating bread invades every cell of our body. The

death of Christ has ALREADY put our old man to death. But now

this death is to invade our members, indeed, our entire being, so

that it might be worked out in practical experience. Only then His

resurrection be likewise made manifest in us.

     Doesn't it seem odd that Jesus, on the one hand, proclaims

 

Himself the Bread of Life which gives life to the world, yet on the

other hand, says that eating the Bread with represents His Body

is a proclamation of His death?

     Not if we understand that the only path to life which God

offers us is through death. If we "eat" Jesus Christ, the Bread of

Life, it will result in the death of everything we are in Adam. But it

will also result in the resurrection of the new man in Christ Jesus.

 

Oneness With Christ 

 

     The Bible talks much about "Christ in you." But it talks just as

much about being "in Christ." Again, we see a oneness. We see

a complete identification and integration of the fundament of our

being with that of our Saviour.

     Notice the way in which the Bible speaks of our oneness with

Jesus Christ:

 

"We are flesh of His flesh, and bone of His bones."

 

 

"For you are all one in Christ Jesus." 

 

     The point is, we are part of Him. Not just in a poetic way or a

doctrinal way. But really. Our spiritual life processes are one

with Him. Indeed, we derive ours from His.

     This was made possible when God planted all of humankind

into Jesus Christ on the Cross. At that point, the perfect Son of

Man, the last Adam, became one with all of us -- the collective

first Adam. And if we "eat and drink" of Christ, continually partake

of Him as the Living Bread, then everything He is, and which He

accomplished, likewise impacts us. Not just in theory. Not just

doctrinally. But really. At work in us is a "death and resurrection"

process which is geared to conforming us to the death and

resurrection of Christ, and as a result, will conform us to His

image.

     Thus we see the reality of Christianity. Christianity is not a list

of doctrines to believe in. It is a relationship with a Living

Saviour. It is not a "joining a church." It is a joining with Jesus

Christ, the True Bread which has come down from heaven. *    

  Lesson 8

I Am the Bread of Life

Definition:

The Bread of Life is the spiritual food needed by man. Without the bread of life man cannot live spiritually. Just as physically man needs to eat in order to live, the bread of life gives nourishment for the soul. Unless one eats from the bread of live he faces eternal death.

 

Meaning:

In the Old Testament God provided the Israelites with manna from heaven. They were told only to take what was required for a one day supply and they had to trust that God would send more the next day. The manna served as salvation for the Israelites physical needs on a daily basis. God, however knew of a greater need for the salvation of man's soul and he also had a plan to meet that need -- His Son, the Bread of Life. The Israelites needed to eat daily, but once one has tasted the bread of life he does not need to ask for it again, because his soul has been saved.

 

Scripture Support:

 

John 6:35 (KJV)

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

 

John 6:48-58

I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

 

Conclusion:

 

Jesus Christ is the Bread of Life. It is he whom I need to eat in order that I might have eternal life. He is the manna for my soul that God promised. Though I don't need to wait each day to take part of the bread of life, I do need to be sure that my life is lived like Jesus. He was the example of how I am to live and part of what it means for me to eat the bread of life is to live my life the way Jesus, the Bread of Life, lived his.

Application:

Since Jesus is the Bread of Life, I will treat Him with as great importance as actual food. I will partake of Him each day by praying, reading His word and listening for the Holy Spirit, knowing that as I focus on Him, He is nourishing me spiritually. Also, as I eat, I will remember that physical food is a symbol of how we are to relate to Jesus spiritually, and I will thank Him for providing me with both physical food for my body and spiritual food for my soul.   

Lesson 9

I Am the Good Shepherd

Definition:

A shepherd is one employed in tending, feeding and guarding the sheep. Jesus, the Good Shepherd, indicates the kind of shepherd He is. He unlike some who would flee when facing danger, gave up His life for the sheep in His care.

Meaning:

Jesus takes care of and looks after His sheep. His sheep are the people of this world who have accepted Him and believe He will take of them. Sheep are completely reliant on the shepherd to take them to where there is food and protect them from wolves and other predators that would enjoy devouring a sheep that was left unprotected. The sheep in Jesus' flock need not fear anything for He has never lost a sheep that was placed in His care.

 

Scripture Support:

 

John 10:11-18

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

Matthew 18:12-14

How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that [sheep], than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

 

Luke 15:1-7

Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. And he spake this parable unto them, saying, What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found [it], he layeth [it] on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together [his] friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

 

Isaiah 40:10-11

Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. 11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

 

Ezekiel 34:11-16

For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD. 16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

 

Matthew 26:31-35

Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. 32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee. 33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended. 34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. 35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.

 

Mark 14:27-31

And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered. 28 But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee. 29 But Peter said unto him, Although all shall be offended, yet will not I. 30 And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. 31 But he spake the more vehemently, If I should die with thee, I will not deny thee in any wise. Likewise also said they all.

 

Hebrews 13:20-21

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

1 Peter 5:4

And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

 

Revelation 7:15-17

 

 

Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Conclusion:

 

Jesus is the one shepherd we, as sheep, can completely trust. All we need to do is let Him and He will take care of our every need without us having to do anything on our own. Just as sheep follow their shepherd everywhere we need to follow Jesus, the Good Shepherd.

Billions of Muslims swears alegiance to Muhammad's words and not any kind of god's words the Quran was only there to fit the benifit of Muhammad and misled his followers who submit to Muhammad and not any god.

Islam's real meaning is submit to Muhammad. 



Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 14 July 2018 at 10:10pm
Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.



Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 1:11am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.



Even if the real world shows that on occaision the Koran gets it wrong?


Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 6:12am
Trying to change people's beliefs through the internet is not a gracious act. Nobody ever changes religion orientation based on internet posts. That would be incredibly shallow.

At best you present your religion as group of pushy and conceited people. At worst, you lead people to doubt their faith in God entirely.

Every conversation here should be based in prayer and not argument.

-------------
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Trying to change people's beliefs through the internet is not a gracious act. Nobody ever changes religion orientation based on internet posts. That would be incredibly shallow.

At best you present your religion as group of pushy and conceited people. At worst, you lead people to doubt their faith in God entirely.

Every conversation here should be based in prayer and not argument.

Yes DavidC, I agree your opinion, let alone through the internet or the like, even meet face to face, it is not necessarily people will change their religion, because it can not be separated from the Will of God.


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 15 July 2018 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Trying to change people's beliefs through the internet is not a gracious act. Nobody ever changes religion orientation based on internet posts. That would be incredibly shallow.

At best you present your religion as group of pushy and conceited people. At worst, you lead people to doubt their faith in God entirely.

Every conversation here should be based in prayer and not argument.


If exposure to new ideas causes you to think about the world in a different way, a more enlightened way, in which you are better able to deal with it is the realization of uncertainty actually a very good thing?


Posted By: yandex
Date Posted: 17 July 2018 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Trying to change people's beliefs through the internet is not a gracious act. Nobody ever changes religion orientation based on internet posts. That would be incredibly shallow....

On the contrary,  internet & social media is a significant platform now for dawah/ proselytization. That's also one of the purpose of this forum for the owners too. Yes, people do change their perception when they see facts provided to them online which otherwise they never came across before.

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Asep.
The QURAN was not God's word its Muhammad's words and he was not a prophet clear and easy to refute.


Well I think Bible is not the word of God too. On the point about Muhammad however I can provide an example as below. When you read the both the related hadith & the Quranic verse, you can make your own conclusion. Here you can see Muhammad correcting his verse not realizing the blind guy was there with him. It was definitely not the All Knowing God who overlooked.

Narrated Al-Bara:

When the Verse:--"Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home)," (4.95) was revealed, the Prophet said, "Call so-and-so." That person came to him with an ink-pot and a wooden board or a shoulder scapula bone. The Prophet (ﷺ) said (to him), "Write: 'Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and those who strive and fight in the Cause of Allah." Ibn Um Maktum who was sitting behind the Prophet (ﷺ) then said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! I am a blind man." So there was revealed in the place of that Verse, the Verse:--"Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home) except those who are disabled (by injury, or are blind or lame etc.) and those who strive and fight in the Cause of Allah." (4.95)

Sahih al-Bukhari Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 118Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an


Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward;

(Quran 4 95)


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 20 July 2018 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.

Who and what told you to believe in the Quran?
Who told you Allah has absolute power?
Where is Allah right now?
I am not influencing you,you influence yourself by your own will and may be someone elses advise.
You must just remember Jesus is the Messiah the saviour of all mankind in this anything after him that wanted to imitate some kind of salvation will not work like 1,5 billion prayers a day what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 25 July 2018 at 6:07am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.

Who and what told you to believe in the Quran?
Who told you Allah has absolute power?
Where is Allah right now?
I am not influencing you,you influence yourself by your own will and may be someone elses advise.
You must just remember Jesus is the Messiah the saviour of all mankind in this anything after him that wanted to imitate some kind of salvation will not work like 1,5 billion prayers a day what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?

Allah told me to believe the Quran.

Allah tells me that HE has absolute power as in HIS words in the Quran. just a real example: no one in this world can make the universe except HIM.

Allah holds all that is in this universe, even what is in our body.

What affects me is Allah through His word in the Quran.

I always remember Jesus (Isa) and the other Prophets.

You said: “what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?”

You seem to know exactly about unanswered prayers, so you can say like that.

Please remember, not only religious people who are heard and granted their prayers by Allah, even devil who are cursed by Allah there is his prayer that was granted by Allah.



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 27 July 2018 at 2:51am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.

Who and what told you to believe in the Quran?
Who told you Allah has absolute power?
Where is Allah right now?
I am not influencing you,you influence yourself by your own will and may be someone elses advise.
You must just remember Jesus is the Messiah the saviour of all mankind in this anything after him that wanted to imitate some kind of salvation will not work like 1,5 billion prayers a day what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?

Allah told me to believe the Quran.

Allah tells me that HE has absolute power as in HIS words in the Quran. just a real example: no one in this world can make the universe except HIM.

Allah holds all that is in this universe, even what is in our body.

What affects me is Allah through His word in the Quran.

I always remember Jesus (Isa) and the other Prophets.

You said: “what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?”

You seem to know exactly about unanswered prayers, so you can say like that.

Please remember, not only religious people who are heard and granted their prayers by Allah, even devil who are cursed by Allah there is his prayer that was granted by Allah.

 
You did not answer my question.
Allah did not told you believe in the Quran cause he never can.
Allah has no power and the QURAN can not be his words.
Allah can not affect you only you can.
Jesus was and is not Isa Muhammad heard it all wrong.
Allah can never and has never hear anyones prayers.
Where is Allah now?
Allah was just Muhammad's invention of his own god further on Muhammad was islam's godfather and muslims still listens to him the QURAN WAS MUHAMMAD'S HIS INVENTION to trick his followers to follow and support him.
Die in war go to paradise.
Survive in war then you get a share of the spoils in other word muslims in Muhammad's time his pay for the fight.


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 28 July 2018 at 4:57am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.

Who and what told you to believe in the Quran?
Who told you Allah has absolute power?
Where is Allah right now?
I am not influencing you,you influence yourself by your own will and may be someone elses advise.
You must just remember Jesus is the Messiah the saviour of all mankind in this anything after him that wanted to imitate some kind of salvation will not work like 1,5 billion prayers a day what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?

Allah told me to believe the Quran.

Allah tells me that HE has absolute power as in HIS words in the Quran. just a real example: no one in this world can make the universe except HIM.

Allah holds all that is in this universe, even what is in our body.

What affects me is Allah through His word in the Quran.

I always remember Jesus (Isa) and the other Prophets.

You said: “what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?”

You seem to know exactly about unanswered prayers, so you can say like that.

Please remember, not only religious people who are heard and granted their prayers by Allah, even devil who are cursed by Allah there is his prayer that was granted by Allah.

Where is Allah can he not hear 1,5 billion muslim prayers?
Why is there so much war in most of the muslim states? can't Allah intervene with peace.


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 09 August 2018 at 3:10am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.

Who and what told you to believe in the Quran?
Who told you Allah has absolute power?
Where is Allah right now?
I am not influencing you,you influence yourself by your own will and may be someone elses advise.
You must just remember Jesus is the Messiah the saviour of all mankind in this anything after him that wanted to imitate some kind of salvation will not work like 1,5 billion prayers a day what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?

Allah told me to believe the Quran.

Allah tells me that HE has absolute power as in HIS words in the Quran. just a real example: no one in this world can make the universe except HIM.

Allah holds all that is in this universe, even what is in our body.

What affects me is Allah through His word in the Quran.

I always remember Jesus (Isa) and the other Prophets.

You said: “what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?”

You seem to know exactly about unanswered prayers, so you can say like that.

Please remember, not only religious people who are heard and granted their prayers by Allah, even devil who are cursed by Allah there is his prayer that was granted by Allah.

Where is Allah can he not hear 1,5 billion muslim prayers?
Why is there so much war in most of the muslim states? can't Allah intervene with peace.

Allah has forbidden Muslims fight with Muslims, and those who fight are those who do not follow the words of Allah and His Messenger. Will Allah help those who ignore His word?
The causes of why they can fight among others: power struggles, differences that are dogmatic in religion, incitement due to politics from outside Islam, and so on.



Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 09 August 2018 at 9:12am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Peace maker,

No matter how much your influence and explanation, for me will not change forever because I believe more in the Qur'an than any other books in this world.

That is the sign that Allah has the absolute power to make humanity in this world different beliefs.

Who and what told you to believe in the Quran?
Who told you Allah has absolute power?
Where is Allah right now?
I am not influencing you,you influence yourself by your own will and may be someone elses advise.
You must just remember Jesus is the Messiah the saviour of all mankind in this anything after him that wanted to imitate some kind of salvation will not work like 1,5 billion prayers a day what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?

Allah told me to believe the Quran.

Allah tells me that HE has absolute power as in HIS words in the Quran. just a real example: no one in this world can make the universe except HIM.

Allah holds all that is in this universe, even what is in our body.

What affects me is Allah through His word in the Quran.

I always remember Jesus (Isa) and the other Prophets.

You said: “what Allah can not hear them no prayer is answered whats wrong? for 1400 years long whats wrong? Allah can not hear the muslims why?”

You seem to know exactly about unanswered prayers, so you can say like that.

Please remember, not only religious people who are heard and granted their prayers by Allah, even devil who are cursed by Allah there is his prayer that was granted by Allah.

Where is Allah can he not hear 1,5 billion muslim prayers?
Why is there so much war in most of the muslim states? can't Allah intervene with peace.

Allah has forbidden Muslims fight with Muslims, and those who fight are those who do not follow the words of Allah and His Messenger. Will Allah help those who ignore His word?
The causes of why they can fight among others: power struggles, differences that are dogmatic in religion, incitement due to politics from outside Islam, and so on.



It is easy to say that the other side is not proper Muslim. So Kill Them!!!


Easy solution; Get both sides to talk to the likes of me for a bit and suddenly they will be brothers.



Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 09 August 2018 at 6:31pm
Calm Tim, Islam does not teach to kill each other, including to non-Muslims, because human enemies are cursed demons who always whisper to the human heart to behave badly.
Even though Muslims must kill, it must be in accordance with the word of Allah in the Quran 60:8
Therefore, not all Muslims in the world have understood the contents of the Quran, let alone you.


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 23 August 2018 at 3:46am
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Calm Tim, Islam does not teach to kill each other, including to non-Muslims, because human enemies are cursed demons who always whisper to the human heart to behave badly.
Even though Muslims must kill, it must be in accordance with the word of Allah in the Quran 60:8
Therefore, not all Muslims in the world have understood the contents of the Quran, let alone you.
So Muslims must kill according to the Quran 60:8. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion – [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
 
 
 
 
What about the other killing verses in the Quran? So don't come and tell me I read it out of context!
 

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into  raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." 

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".  This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'). 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers. 

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."



Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 30 August 2018 at 1:56am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Calm Tim, Islam does not teach to kill each other, including to non-Muslims, because human enemies are cursed demons who always whisper to the human heart to behave badly.
Even though Muslims must kill, it must be in accordance with the word of Allah in the Quran 60:8
Therefore, not all Muslims in the world have understood the contents of the Quran, let alone you.
So Muslims must kill according to the Quran 60:8. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion – [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
 
 
 
 
What about the other killing verses in the Quran? So don't come and tell me I read it out of context!
 

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into  raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." 

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".  This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'). 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers. 

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."


All the verses that you give occur when Muslims are fought, and Muslims cannot be silent if they were fought by others (must) fight for the sake of life and religion.

Therefore, if you only see the Quran in translation, it is as if all non-Muslims must be fought. You must know the Asbabun-nuzul (the cause of the verse revealed).

All the verses you gave were when the battle of Badr and the battle of Uhud.

These verses can also be used today if Muslims are oppressed and persecuted by other nations. Muslims are forbidden by Allah to attack others who do not attack them.




Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 30 August 2018 at 7:15am
Peacemaker, I recommend you read "Muhammad - His Life and Times" by Martin Lings. The best English language biography and a fascinating, easy read taken from the best original sources. If you learn how Muhummad actually acted and compare that to the Qu'ran your comparisons will be more accurate.

-------------
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 30 August 2018 at 7:31am
[quote]

It is easy to say that the other side is not proper Muslim. So Kill Them!!!


Easy solution; Get both sides to talk to the likes of me for a bit and suddenly they will be brothers.[quote]


Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Calm Tim, Islam does not teach to kill each other, including to non-Muslims, because human enemies are cursed demons who always whisper to the human heart to behave badly.Even though Muslims must kill, it must be in accordance with the word of Allah in the Quran 60:8
Therefore, not all Muslims in the world have understood the contents of the Quran, let alone you.


Today Syria has a war going on which is very largely about the division between the two main branches of Islam. So has Yemen. So has Iraq.

As I said get the Sunni and Shia who are feeling that they should force the other side to see the correct light of Islam to talk to the likes of me for a bit and try to explain the difference between Sunni and Chere or whatever and the cause for the present war between Muslims will nolonger work in their thinking.

They might be a little upset with me but that's no change so.....


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 05 September 2018 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Peacemaker, I recommend you read "Muhammad - His Life and Times" by Martin Lings. The best English language biography and a fascinating, easy read taken from the best original sources. If you learn how Muhummad actually acted and compare that to the Qu'ran your comparisons will be more accurate.
Martin Lings did not live in Muahammad's time so his only resources what he have was Biblical and Quranic
sources which in fact the Quran is not reliable source of all the Hadiths of Muhammad seems more reliable.
 
You can not compare the Quran from the Bible cause the Quran is mostly borrowed from Jewish,Christian and pagan sources and Muhammad's own imagination and twisted it to fit his own agenda to gain full power over all Arabs and Jews etc.
 
Abraham was not near Mecca and never said Mecca cause the word Mecca did not existed cause there were no Arabs in Abraham's time even Arabia was not there it was not inhabited.
So I don't no where Muslim apologist get there historical evidence from cause there is none but only Islamic folklore.
 
This is a part of Martin Lings book which is only to elevate Islam and not providing the real facts and exposing the real truth of Islam.
 

And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagaroutofheavenandsaidtoher: Whataileththee, Hagar?Fearnot, for God hath heard the voice ofthe lad where he is. Arise and lift up the lad and hold him in thy hand, for I will make him a great nation. And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well ofwater,'

The water was a spring which God caused to well up from the sand at the touch of Ishmael's heel; and thereafter the valley soon became a halt for caravans by reason of the excellence and abundance of the water; and the well was named Zamzam.

As to Genesis, it is the book of Isaac and his descendants, not of Abraham's other line. Of Ishmael it tells us: And God was with the lad; and he grew and dwelt in the wilderness and became an archer? After that it scarcely mentions his name; except to inform us that the two brothers Isaac and Ishmael together buried their father in Hebron, and that some years later Esau married his cousin, the daughter of Ishmael. But there is indirect praise of Ishmael and his mother in the Psalm which opens How amiable are Thy tabernacles, 0 Lord of hosts, and which tells of the miracle of Zamzam as having been caused by their passing through the valley: Blessed is the man whose strength is in Thee; inuihose heart are the ways ofthem who passing through the valley ofBaca make it a well:'



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 16 September 2018 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

Calm Tim, Islam does not teach to kill each other, including to non-Muslims, because human enemies are cursed demons who always whisper to the human heart to behave badly.
Even though Muslims must kill, it must be in accordance with the word of Allah in the Quran 60:8
Therefore, not all Muslims in the world have understood the contents of the Quran, let alone you.
So Muslims must kill according to the Quran 60:8. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion – [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
 
 
 
 
What about the other killing verses in the Quran? So don't come and tell me I read it out of context!
 

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into  raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." 

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".  This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'). 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers. 

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."


All the verses that you give occur when Muslims are fought, and Muslims cannot be silent if they were fought by others (must) fight for the sake of life and religion.

Therefore, if you only see the Quran in translation, it is as if all non-Muslims must be fought. You must know the Asbabun-nuzul (the cause of the verse revealed).

All the verses you gave were when the battle of Badr and the battle of Uhud.

These verses can also be used today if Muslims are oppressed and persecuted by other nations. Muslims are forbidden by Allah to attack others who do not attack them.



 
So this is still hapening today why didn't Jesus put war verses in the Gospels?
Then you tell me  Muhammad's  carravan  raids  was  also a act of war it was blattant robbery thats what it was. 


Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 16 July 2019 at 8:10pm
Hi Peace maker,
Sorry for the late answer because in the past few months I have had difficulty posting to this forum, I don't know why.

I think the situation in Jesus' era was very different from that of the Prophet Muhammad, where at the time of the Prophet Muhammad there were many religious ideas which disliked him, including some Quraysh people, because it was very reasonable for the sake of maintaining his salvation and the religion of monotheism (tauheed) must fight. Whereas at the time of Prophet Isa (Jesus) it was not like that, only from some Israelites who did not like him.

As for the results of the war reparations, he used them to support poor families and those who converted to Islam.
The Prophet Muhammad was very afraid of Allah laws, so he knew how to use the spoils of war to conform to the pleasure of Allah.


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 12 October 2019 at 11:39am
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Hi Peace maker,
Sorry for the late answer because in the past few months I have had difficulty posting to this forum, I don't know why.

I think the situation in Jesus' era was very different from that of the Prophet Muhammad, where at the time of the Prophet Muhammad there were many religious ideas which disliked him, including some Quraysh people, because it was very reasonable for the sake of maintaining his salvation and the religion of monotheism (tauheed) must fight. Whereas at the time of Prophet Isa (Jesus) it was not like that, only from some Israelites who did not like him.

As for the results of the war reparations, he used them to support poor families and those who converted to Islam.
The Prophet Muhammad was very afraid of Allah laws, so he knew how to use the spoils of war to conform to the pleasure of Allah.
So you tell me Muhammad just make war and rob caravans just for charity so much for generous prophet who must rob and make war to support poor families what happened to Kadijha's bussiness why didn't Muhammad go on with her trade cause no it was easier to steal.


Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 12 October 2019 at 9:33pm
That's just your prejudice.
Many people do not like him since he was alive until now, so they assume that the Prophet Muhammad's hobbies are war, steal etc., even though he was fought, he had to fight to defend the religion which was blessed by Allah on this earth, namely to save the monotheistic teachings (Tauheed) of the previous Prophets and Apostles before him.
One that is very contrary to your perception is that he never stole, 
even bad prejudice in his heart is forbidden by Allah.
Today, many people bend the historical truth.
But Alhamdulillah, because of Allah's help his teachings can spread throughout the world.
We can understand that logically: if the Prophet Muhammad had a bad behavior, then it is impossible for his teachings to spread like you see now. (God bless him).


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 13 October 2019 at 11:36am
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

That's just your prejudice.
Many people do not like him since he was alive until now, so they assume that the Prophet Muhammad's hobbies are war, steal etc., even though he was fought, he had to fight to defend the religion which was blessed by Allah on this earth, namely to save the monotheistic teachings (Tauheed) of the previous Prophets and Apostles before him.
One that is very contrary to your perception is that he never stole, 
even bad prejudice in his heart is forbidden by Allah.
Today, many people bend the historical truth.
But Alhamdulillah, because of Allah's help his teachings can spread throughout the world.
We can understand that logically: if the Prophet Muhammad had a bad behavior, then it is impossible for his teachings to spread like you see now. (God bless him).

I don’t know what constitutes kindness for Muslims. Raiding innocent civilians, killing unarmed people taken by surprise, or massacring their entire male population and enslaving their women and children and even raping them are not acts of kindness. The claim that Islam promotes kindness is an insult to human intelligence. This is like saying Nazism promotes kindness. Islam has advanced by terror and not by kindness. The order to cast terror in the heart of the enemy is mandated in the Quran http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.151" rel="nofollow - 3.151 , http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/008.qmt.html#008.012" rel="nofollow - 8.12 . The enemy is anyone who Muhammad chose to attack. These people did not have to be hostile to Muhammad or have done anything against him. He decided that those who do not submit to his cult are the enemy and must be subdued. Or those who are wealthy are the enemy.  Muhammad boasted "I have been made victorious with terror" Bukhari http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.220" rel="nofollow - 4:52:220   


Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 13 October 2019 at 7:42pm
You have been influenced by the behavior of some Muslims so you have that understanding.
Please remember, Islam does not teach radicalism.
If the Prophet Muhammad was a radical person, it was impossible for his teachings to spread throughout the world.
Here is the proof:
Allah Says:
"Then thanks to the grace of God you (Muhammad) are gentle to them. If you act hard and have a rough heart, surely they will distance themselves from your surroundings. Therefore forgive them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult with them in the matter. Then, if you have made up your mind, then put your trust in Allah. Truly, Allah loves those who tawakkal."
(Ali 'Imran 3: 159)

As for what you wrote (3,151) means Allah tells us that those who associate Him will go to hell.
And what you wrote (8.12)
You do not know why that word of Allah revealed.
That verse sent down to strengthen the Muslims Ummah during the Badr war when there were more opponents than the Muslims Ummah.
And Allah helped the Prophet Muhammad and his army with the help of angels.
It happened in the desert and rock hills. There is no civil society etc, only troops versus troops.
You said:
Muhammad boasted "I have been made victorious with terror" Bukhari 4:52:220  
Where did the hadith come from?
It was a political nuanced sentence so that everyone assumed that the Prophet Muhammad was arrogant and radical.
The correct is:
The Prophet sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said:
"This little army has won because of Allah's help."
I have told in this forum before that some of the hadiths are authentic and some are fake, except the Qoran.



Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 14 October 2019 at 12:58am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

...So you tell me Muhammad just make war and rob caravans just for charity...

Assalamu alaikum my Muslim brothers and sisters,... Here we go again! Smile

I am not addressing this post/contribution to the so-called 'Peace Maker' (no offence), because the likes of him/her have existed since the dawn of this Perfect religion that is Islam (i.e. since Prophet Adam AS)... they will never stop... when they ask you a question, it is usually not because they want to know the answer, it is because they want to have another 'dig' at your religion, it is just another way of insulting your sacred and respected symbols. Their questions/criticisms have been answered for centuries, and yet they keep coming back with the same falsehood, because they have no intention of ever accepting any answer from you... so be aware!

This post/contribution is intended to educate other Muslims about their history and their religion... it is in no way intended to justify anything... No Muslim should ever have to justify (or prove) anything about their religion to a non-Muslim... especially when we look at the latter's own history of atrocities (that they try to cover up by bombarding you with questions and keeping you busy answering them... i.e keeping you forever on the 'defensive') ...

Now... back to the Caravans of Quraish (Makkah),

Here are some well-documented facts about your history, so learn them well... in order to answer all the 'Peace-makers' of this world in the future:

1) Prophet Muhammad  had been known for his noble character, high morals and truthfulness during all his life throughout Makkah. However, after he received the revelation, he and his followers were persecuted, tortured, exiled, starved of food, isolated... by the extremists of Makkah, all because they wanted to worship One God instead of 360 gods. This went on for (a loooong) 13 years.

2) Eventually, this persecution became too unbearable, and those who were still alive (including our Prophet ﷺ) had to flee with their lives to Madinah... leaving behind all their wealth, possessions, families, spouses,  loved ones and friends... it was extreme hardship and difficult times, but I personally find it fascinating how the early Muslims were prepared to give up everything, rather than give up this 'precious' new religion that Allah SWT Has Favoured them with! (this should tell you a lot about the extent of trust and faith that they had in the new religion, but also especially in the man who brought it to them, and whom they knew very well)... Anyway, back to our subject...

3) When Muslims found refuge in Madinah, the people of Quraish (Makkah) did not leave them alone: They would confiscate all their wealth and belongings left behind, persecute and torture their families and friends... but even all that was not enough...

4) The people of Quraish (Makkah) issued ultimatums and threats to all the tribes of Madinah (who offered shelter to Muslims). They wrote to them saying:

إِنَّكُمْ آوَيْتُمْ صَاحِبَنَا وَإِنَّا نُقْسِمُ بِاللَّهِ لَتُقَاتِلُنَّهُ �£َوْ لَتُخْرِجُنَّهُ �£َوْ لَنَسِيرَنَّ إِلَيْكُمْ بِ�£َجْمَعِنَا حَتَّى نَقْتُلَ مُقَاتِلَتَكُمْ وَنَسْتَبِيحَ نِسَاءَكُمْ

You have given protection to our companion. We swear by Allah that you must fight him or exile him, or else we will come at you in full force. We will kill your fighting men and take your women.

Note: Yes they believed in Allah, but in a different/wrong way. (For example: See Qur'an [39:38]).


5) So they (the people of Quraish, Makkah) declared war, and war was imminent, therefore they needed money (how similar to today!)... so they intensified trading by sending caravans... all the proceeds of which were intended to finance this war. But this is not the worst part... the worst part was that the goods in these caravans heading for Syria were mostly what the Muslims had left behind when they were made to flee, and worse still: the caravan would pass right under the Muslims' noses in Madinah, on its way to Syria!... Talk about HUMILIATION!! (compare this to the fact that Christian and other Missionaries annihilated, mutilated, murdered, raped, pillaged, plundered...etc entire innocent populations, nations, civilisations all over the world and throughout Mankind history... for no reason or justification whatsoever!!!... but more about this later)

The rest is history...
https://abuaminaelias.com/why-prophet-muhammad-raid-caravans/" rel="nofollow - https://abuaminaelias.com/why-prophet-muhammad-raid-caravans/

6) Question: Were there many caravans passing by Madinah? Answer: Yes
    Question: Did Muslims attack all of them? Answer: No, only the ones that were associated with Quraish... for the reasons described in (5) above.
    Question: Did Muslims commit atrocities? Answer: No, they were adhering to strict rules.

7) The 'Peace makers' of this world will always criticize everything about your religion, down to the air that you breathe... is that a very bad thing?... in my opinion: not necessarily... because it should encourage you to research and learn about your religion... the true religion: Islam.







Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 16 October 2019 at 3:20am
وَعَلَيْكُمْ السَّلاَمُ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ
Thank you MIAW for reminding me. Actually I already know that every time he asks me, I always answer him and when I ask him, he doesn't answer of all my question.
Alhamdulillah, Allah Ta'ala has told me through His Word in the Surah Al Baqarah, verse 6.
Thank you MIAW, may Allah Ta'ala make you a servant of Allah Ta'ala.
�£مين يارب العالمين
وَ السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ
 


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 28 October 2019 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

You have been influenced by the behavior of some Muslims so you have that understanding.
Please remember, Islam does not teach radicalism.
If the Prophet Muhammad was a radical person, it was impossible for his teachings to spread throughout the world.
Here is the proof:
Allah Says:
"Then thanks to the grace of God you (Muhammad) are gentle to them. If you act hard and have a rough heart, surely they will distance themselves from your surroundings. Therefore forgive them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult with them in the matter. Then, if you have made up your mind, then put your trust in Allah. Truly, Allah loves those who tawakkal."
(Ali 'Imran 3: 159)

As for what you wrote (3,151) means Allah tells us that those who associate Him will go to hell.
And what you wrote (8.12)
You do not know why that word of Allah revealed.
That verse sent down to strengthen the Muslims Ummah during the Badr war when there were more opponents than the Muslims Ummah.
And Allah helped the Prophet Muhammad and his army with the help of angels.
It happened in the desert and rock hills. There is no civil society etc, only troops versus troops.
You said:
Muhammad boasted "I have been made victorious with terror" Bukhari 4:52:220  
Where did the hadith come from?
It was a political nuanced sentence so that everyone assumed that the Prophet Muhammad was arrogant and radical.
The correct is:
The Prophet sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said:
"This little army has won because of Allah's help."
I have told in this forum before that some of the hadiths are authentic and some are fake, except the Qoran.

You must make up your mind the hadith is not fake its sahih whuch means authentic and it proofs the QURAN SO LETS THEN STAY WITH QURAN AS YOU PLEASE.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'). 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers. 

 

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (Satan, etc.). So fight you against the friends of Shaitan (Satan)" The Arabic for the word "fight" is from qital, meaning physical combat.

This is what the QURAN says in context.



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 28 October 2019 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

...So you tell me Muhammad just make war and rob caravans just for charity...

Assalamu alaikum my Muslim brothers and sisters,... Here we go again! Smile

I am not addressing this post/contribution to the so-called 'Peace Maker' (no offence), because the likes of him/her have existed since the dawn of this Perfect religion that is Islam (i.e. since Prophet Noah AS)... they will never stop... when they ask you a question, it is usually not because they want to know the answer, it is because they want to have another 'dig' at your religion, it is just another way of insulting your sacred and respected symbols. Their questions/criticisms have been answered for centuries, and yet they keep coming back with the same falsehood, because they have no intention of ever accepting any answer from you... so be aware!

This post/contribution is intended to educate other Muslims about their history and their religion... it is in no way intended to justify anything... No Muslim should ever have to justify (or prove) anything about their religion to a non-Muslim... especially when we look at the latter's own history of atrocities (that they try to cover up by bombarding you with questions and keeping you busy answering them... i.e keeping you forever on the 'defensive') ...

Now... back to the Caravans of Quraish (Makkah),

Here are some well-documented facts about your history, so learn them well... in order to answer all the 'Peace-makers' of this world in the future:

1) Prophet Muhammad  had been known for his noble character, high morals and truthfulness during all his life throughout Makkah. However, after he received the revelation, he and his followers were persecuted, tortured, exiled, starved of food, isolated... by the extremists of Makkah, all because they wanted to worship One God instead of 360 gods. This went on for (a loooong) 13 years.

2) Eventually, this persecution became too unbearable, and those who were still alive (including our Prophet ﷺ) had to flee with their lives to Madinah... leaving behind all their wealth, possessions, families, spouses,  loved ones and friends... it was extreme hardship and difficult times, but I personally find it fascinating how the early Muslims were prepared to give up everything, rather than give up this 'precious' new religion that Allah SWT Has Favoured them with! (this should tell you a lot about the extent of trust and faith that they had in the new religion, but also especially in the man who brought it to them, and whom they knew very well)... Anyway, back to our subject...

3) When Muslims found refuge in Madinah, the people of Quraish (Makkah) did not leave them alone: They would confiscate all their wealth and belongings left behind, persecute and torture their families and friends... but even all that was not enough...

4) The people of Quraish (Makkah) issued ultimatums and threats to all the tribes of Madinah (who offered shelter to Muslims). They wrote to them saying:

إِنَّكُمْ آوَيْتُمْ صَاحِبَنَا وَإِنَّا نُقْسِمُ بِاللَّهِ لَتُقَاتِلُنَّهُ �£َوْ لَتُخْرِجُنَّهُ �£َوْ لَنَسِيرَنَّ إِلَيْكُمْ بِ�£َجْمَعِنَا حَتَّى نَقْتُلَ مُقَاتِلَتَكُمْ وَنَسْتَبِيحَ نِسَاءَكُمْ

You have given protection to our companion. We swear by Allah that you must fight him or exile him, or else we will come at you in full force. We will kill your fighting men and take your women.

Note: Yes they believed in Allah, but in a different/wrong way. (For example: See Qur'an [39:38]).


5) So they (the people of Quraish, Makkah) declared war, and war was imminent, therefore they needed money (how similar to today!)... so they intensified trading by sending caravans... all the proceeds of which were intended to finance this war. But this is not the worst part... the worst part was that the goods in these caravans heading for Syria were mostly what the Muslims had left behind when they were made to flee, and worse still: the caravan would pass right under the Muslims' noses in Madinah, on its way to Syria!... Talk about HUMILIATION!! (compare this to the fact that Christian and other Missionaries annihilated, mutilated, murdered, raped, pillaged, plundered...etc entire innocent populations, nations, civilisations all over the world and throughout Mankind history... for no reason or justification whatsoever!!!... but more about this later)

The rest is history...
https://abuaminaelias.com/why-prophet-muhammad-raid-caravans/" rel="nofollow - https://abuaminaelias.com/why-prophet-muhammad-raid-caravans/

6) Question: Were there many caravans passing by Madinah? Answer: Yes
    Question: Did Muslims attack all of them? Answer: No, only the ones that were associated with Quraish... for the reasons described in (5) above.
    Question: Did Muslims commit atrocities? Answer: No, they were adhering to strict rules.

7) The 'Peace makers' of this world will always criticize everything about your religion, down to the air that you breathe... is that a very bad thing?... in my opinion: not necessarily... because it should encourage you to research and learn about your religion... the true religion: Islam.






The Battle of Badr was a key moment in Muhammad’s armed struggle against Mecca’s pagan tribes. In 622 Muhammad and his followers had emigrated from Mecca to Medina. From his new base Muhammad began raiding Meccan caravan routes. This provoked the Meccan tribes into sending an army to confront Muhammad’s Muslims. When word of a particularly wealthy caravan escorted by Abū Sufyān, head of the Umayyad clan, reached Muhammad, a raiding party of about 300 Muslims, to be led by Muhammad himself, was organized. By filling the wells on the caravan route near Medina with sand, the Muslims lured Abū Sufyān’s army to battle at Badr, near Medina, in March 624.

I don't have to criticize someone by speaking the plain truth.

What the Cusaders concern was it was evil and against the teachings of Jesus but what motivated them was the main instigater of evil and can not be justified one murder is evil and cruel.



Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 28 October 2019 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

You have been influenced by the behavior of some Muslims so you have that understanding.
Please remember, Islam does not teach radicalism.
If the Prophet Muhammad was a radical person, it was impossible for his teachings to spread throughout the world.
Here is the proof:
Allah Says:
"Then thanks to the grace of God you (Muhammad) are gentle to them. If you act hard and have a rough heart, surely they will distance themselves from your surroundings. Therefore forgive them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult with them in the matter. Then, if you have made up your mind, then put your trust in Allah. Truly, Allah loves those who tawakkal."
(Ali 'Imran 3: 159)

As for what you wrote (3,151) means Allah tells us that those who associate Him will go to hell.
And what you wrote (8.12)
You do not know why that word of Allah revealed.
That verse sent down to strengthen the Muslims Ummah during the Badr war when there were more opponents than the Muslims Ummah.
And Allah helped the Prophet Muhammad and his army with the help of angels.
It happened in the desert and rock hills. There is no civil society etc, only troops versus troops.
You said:
Muhammad boasted "I have been made victorious with terror" Bukhari 4:52:220  
Where did the hadith come from?
It was a political nuanced sentence so that everyone assumed that the Prophet Muhammad was arrogant and radical.
The correct is:
The Prophet sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said:
"This little army has won because of Allah's help."
I have told in this forum before that some of the hadiths are authentic and some are fake, except the Qoran.

You must make up your mind the hadith is not fake its sahih whuch means authentic and it proofs the QURAN SO LETS THEN STAY WITH QURAN AS YOU PLEASE.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'). 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers. 

 

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (Satan, etc.). So fight you against the friends of Shaitan (Satan)" The Arabic for the word "fight" is from qital, meaning physical combat.

This is what the QURAN says in context.

Explanation of the Quran 2: 244 and 2: 216
These verses explain that if we already know that there is no point in escaping death, like your country was attacked by another country, is it only the army that is obliged to fight? Or will all the people go to war?

When Islam will be destroyed, then Muslims must fight with all their wealth and souls to uphold the religion of the Prophets and Apostles on this earth (The religion of monotheism). And Allah is All-Hearing what people who don't want to fight (hypocritical Muslims) and those who are willing to fight (Mujahid). Then the good will be rewarded with kindness. Conversely, crime will also be rewarded with crime.

You said:
(Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.)
Answer:
I want to ask you: 
did you witness what happened at that time?
If you say it like that, you like assume:
1. God has sided with the wrong person.
2. You seem to know better than historians.
3. Your statement is not in accordance with the word of Allah in the Quran 3:159

Explanation of the Quran (3:56)
It's true like that. It's the same if you oppose many laws that apply in your Country, what happens to you?
Therefore, the Prophet Muhammad invited humanity to follow the rules of Allah, God of all the Prophets, in order to get salvation including salvation for the hereafter.

Explanation of the Quran (3: 151)
Allah told to worship only to Him as all the Prophets and Apostles worship only to Him.
And that fear will be felt when someone is dying where the door to repentance has been closed.

Explanation of the Quran (4:74)
This verse contains two meanings, namely to fight with weapons for the sake of upholding the religion of Allah (Tawhid) and or fight without weapons, for example: teaching useful knowledge, helping the poor, fighting against lust etc. That also includes jihad or qital without weapons.

You said:
(The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.)

Answer:
Can you imagine if God told all Muslims to carry out suicide bombings, it would be against Quran 4: 29, 30.

Explanation of the Quran (4:76)
Yes, Satan is a real enemy of man, so Satan will try to persuade and fight those who believe in Allah until success. (Like the devil's request when he will be sent down to earth.)

Now it's my turn to ask you. 
Why haven't you answered my question in the article:
(Wants a proof that the Quran is God's word !!)
This is my question (Oct. 13, 2019)
Peace maker,
What do you mean:
"You won't be able to proof to me so don't waste your time.."
Are you telling me to prove it or what ?, please don't be biased, because there will be many people who see in this forum.
Thanks.



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 29 October 2019 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

You have been influenced by the behavior of some Muslims so you have that understanding.
Please remember, Islam does not teach radicalism.
If the Prophet Muhammad was a radical person, it was impossible for his teachings to spread throughout the world.
Here is the proof:
Allah Says:
"Then thanks to the grace of God you (Muhammad) are gentle to them. If you act hard and have a rough heart, surely they will distance themselves from your surroundings. Therefore forgive them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult with them in the matter. Then, if you have made up your mind, then put your trust in Allah. Truly, Allah loves those who tawakkal."
(Ali 'Imran 3: 159)

As for what you wrote (3,151) means Allah tells us that those who associate Him will go to hell.
And what you wrote (8.12)
You do not know why that word of Allah revealed.
That verse sent down to strengthen the Muslims Ummah during the Badr war when there were more opponents than the Muslims Ummah.
And Allah helped the Prophet Muhammad and his army with the help of angels.
It happened in the desert and rock hills. There is no civil society etc, only troops versus troops.
You said:
Muhammad boasted "I have been made victorious with terror" Bukhari 4:52:220  
Where did the hadith come from?
It was a political nuanced sentence so that everyone assumed that the Prophet Muhammad was arrogant and radical.
The correct is:
The Prophet sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said:
"This little army has won because of Allah's help."
I have told in this forum before that some of the hadiths are authentic and some are fake, except the Qoran.

You must make up your mind the hadith is not fake its sahih whuch means authentic and it proofs the QURAN SO LETS THEN STAY WITH QURAN AS YOU PLEASE.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'). 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers. 

 

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (Satan, etc.). So fight you against the friends of Shaitan (Satan)" The Arabic for the word "fight" is from qital, meaning physical combat.

This is what the QURAN says in context.

Explanation of the Quran 2: 244 and 2: 216
These verses explain that if we already know that there is no point in escaping death, like your country was attacked by another country, is it only the army that is obliged to fight? Or will all the people go to war?

When Islam will be destroyed, then Muslims must fight with all their wealth and souls to uphold the religion of the Prophets and Apostles on this earth (The religion of monotheism). And Allah is All-Hearing what people who don't want to fight (hypocritical Muslims) and those who are willing to fight (Mujahid). Then the good will be rewarded with kindness. Conversely, crime will also be rewarded with crime.

You said:
(Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.)
Answer:
I want to ask you: 
did you witness what happened at that time?
If you say it like that, you like assume:
1. God has sided with the wrong person.
2. You seem to know better than historians.
3. Your statement is not in accordance with the word of Allah in the Quran 3:159

Explanation of the Quran (3:56)
It's true like that. It's the same if you oppose many laws that apply in your Country, what happens to you?
Therefore, the Prophet Muhammad invited humanity to follow the rules of Allah, God of all the Prophets, in order to get salvation including salvation for the hereafter.

Explanation of the Quran (3: 151)
Allah told to worship only to Him as all the Prophets and Apostles worship only to Him.
And that fear will be felt when someone is dying where the door to repentance has been closed.

Explanation of the Quran (4:74)
This verse contains two meanings, namely to fight with weapons for the sake of upholding the religion of Allah (Tawhid) and or fight without weapons, for example: teaching useful knowledge, helping the poor, fighting against lust etc. That also includes jihad or qital without weapons.

You said:
(The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.)

Answer:
Can you imagine if God told all Muslims to carry out suicide bombings, it would be against Quran 4: 29, 30.

Explanation of the Quran (4:76)
Yes, Satan is a real enemy of man, so Satan will try to persuade and fight those who believe in Allah until success. (Like the devil's request when he will be sent down to earth.)

Now it's my turn to ask you. 
Why haven't you answered my question in the article:
(Wants a proof that the Quran is God's word !!)
This is my question (Oct. 13, 2019)
Peace maker,
What do you mean:
"You won't be able to proof to me so don't waste your time.."
Are you telling me to prove it or what ?, please don't be biased, because there will be many people who see in this forum.
Thanks.

THE QURAN WAS IT ALLAH OR MUHAMMAD.
IS THIS A GENEROUS GOD'S WORDS OR MUHAMMAD'S OWN WORDS.

YOU WANT IT SO GET IT.

This is what Allah says… ‘Now go and strike the Infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.” Surah 27:63

Happy is he who repays the infidel for what they have done to us – he who seizes their infants and dashes them against the rocks.” – Surah 34:12

So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” – Surah 135:27

A Wife, must submit to her husband as to Allah.” – Surah 5:22

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Surah 21: 7-8

The Quran was not and is not the word of God which was written by Muhammad's so called advisors or so called Caliphs cause they haven't got a book so they concocted a false and corrupted book after Muhammad died and then they just did the same as Muhammad carry on with their cruelty of wars invations and war crimes

Till today your so called jihadist is still wage war Muslims against Muslims I am not even talking about the war against non muslims. 

WHAT? WHAT?



Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 30 October 2019 at 2:36am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

THE QURAN WAS IT ALLAH OR MUHAMMAD.
IS THIS A GENEROUS GOD'S WORDS OR MUHAMMAD'S OWN WORDS.

YOU WANT IT SO GET IT.

This is what Allah says… ‘Now go and strike the Infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.” Surah 27:63 ...

Where did you get this from? because this is not what Qur'an 27:63 says... Where did you fabricate this from? Embarrassed

Here is what Qur'an 27:63 says...

Qur'an [27:63]

Chapter (27) sūrat l-naml (The Ants)

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=27&verse=63#%2827:63:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: Is He [not best] who guides you through the darknesses of the land and sea and who sends the winds as good tidings before His mercy? Is there a deity with Allah ? High is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.

Pickthall: Is not He (best) Who guideth you in the darkness of the land and the sea, He Who sendeth the winds as heralds of His mercy? Is there any Allah beside Allah? High Exalted be Allah from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!


Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

...

Happy is he who repays the infidel for what they have done to us – he who seizes their infants and dashes them against the rocks.” – Surah 34:12 ...


Where did you get this from? because this is not what Qur'an 34:12 says... Where did you concoct this from? Embarrassed

Here is what Qur'an 34:12 says...

Qur'an [34:12]

Chapter (34) sūrat saba (Sheba)

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=34&verse=12#%2834:12:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: And to Solomon [We subjected] the wind - its morning [journey was that of] a month - and its afternoon [journey was that of] a month, and We made flow for him a spring of [liquid] copper. And among the jinn were those who worked for him by the permission of his Lord. And whoever deviated among them from Our command - We will make him taste of the punishment of the Blaze.

Pickthall: And unto Solomon (We gave) the wind, whereof the morning course was a month's journey and the evening course a month's journey, and We caused the fount of copper to gush forth for him, and (We gave him) certain of the jinn who worked before him by permission of his Lord. And such of them as deviated from Our command, them We caused to taste the punishment of flaming Fire.


Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

... “So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” – Surah 135:27...

Where did you get this from? because Qur'an 135:27 does not exist... there are only 114 Chapters in our Qur'an... Embarrassed


Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

...“A Wife, must submit to her husband as to Allah.” – Surah 5:22 ...

Where did you get this from? because this is not what Qur'an 5:22 says... Where did you invent this from?

Here is what Qur'an 5:22 says...

Qur'an [5:22]

Chapter (5) sūrat l-māidah (The Table spread with Food)

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=5&verse=22#%285:22:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: They said, "O Moses, indeed within it is a people of tyrannical strength, and indeed, we will never enter it until they leave it; but if they leave it, then we will enter."

Pickthall: They said: O Moses! Lo! a giant people (dwell) therein and lo! we go not in till they go forth from thence. When they go forth from thence, then we will enter (not till then).


Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

...“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Surah 21: 7-8 ...

Where did you get this from? because this is not what Qur'an Surah 21: 7-8 says... Where did you imagine/dream this from?

Here is what Qur'an Surah 21: 7-8 says...

Qur'an [21:7-8]

Chapter (21) sūrat l-anbiyāa (The Prophets)

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=21&verse=7#%2821:7:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: And We sent not before you, [O Muhammad], except men to whom We revealed [the message], so ask the people of the message if you do not know.

Pickthall: And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men, whom We inspired. Ask the followers of the Reminder if ye know not?

Chapter (21) sūrat l-anbiyāa (The Prophets)

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=21&verse=8#%2821:8:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: And We did not make the prophets forms not eating food, nor were they immortal [on earth].

Pickthall: We gave them not bodies that would not eat food, nor were they immortals.




The (supposed) verses that you quoted in your previous post do not exist in our Qur'an!... they only exist in some islamophobe's twisted mind.

I think that the least that we can expect of Anti-Islam critics on this forum... is to quote authentic verses from the Qur'an... not to attribute some hate speech from an Islamophobe rallye to the Qur'an... it's childish to say the least.


If you are interested to know and find out about Islam, then ask your questions... However if your intention is to quote false statements in order to mislead people, then that will tell us something about you... not about Islam.


I find it very fascinating how (your choice of) the verses that I have pasted above... are so relevant to someone like yourself.

You must have far too much time on your hands... because this is a waste of valuable time.






Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 30 October 2019 at 3:41am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

You have been influenced by the behavior of some Muslims so you have that understanding.
Please remember, Islam does not teach radicalism.
If the Prophet Muhammad was a radical person, it was impossible for his teachings to spread throughout the world.
Here is the proof:
Allah Says:
"Then thanks to the grace of God you (Muhammad) are gentle to them. If you act hard and have a rough heart, surely they will distance themselves from your surroundings. Therefore forgive them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult with them in the matter. Then, if you have made up your mind, then put your trust in Allah. Truly, Allah loves those who tawakkal."
(Ali 'Imran 3: 159)

As for what you wrote (3,151) means Allah tells us that those who associate Him will go to hell.
And what you wrote (8.12)
You do not know why that word of Allah revealed.
That verse sent down to strengthen the Muslims Ummah during the Badr war when there were more opponents than the Muslims Ummah.
And Allah helped the Prophet Muhammad and his army with the help of angels.
It happened in the desert and rock hills. There is no civil society etc, only troops versus troops.
You said:
Muhammad boasted "I have been made victorious with terror" Bukhari 4:52:220  
Where did the hadith come from?
It was a political nuanced sentence so that everyone assumed that the Prophet Muhammad was arrogant and radical.
The correct is:
The Prophet sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said:
"This little army has won because of Allah's help."
I have told in this forum before that some of the hadiths are authentic and some are fake, except the Qoran.

You must make up your mind the hadith is not fake its sahih whuch means authentic and it proofs the QURAN SO LETS THEN STAY WITH QURAN AS YOU PLEASE.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'). 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers. 

 

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (Satan, etc.). So fight you against the friends of Shaitan (Satan)" The Arabic for the word "fight" is from qital, meaning physical combat.

This is what the QURAN says in context.

Explanation of the Quran 2: 244 and 2: 216
These verses explain that if we already know that there is no point in escaping death, like your country was attacked by another country, is it only the army that is obliged to fight? Or will all the people go to war?

When Islam will be destroyed, then Muslims must fight with all their wealth and souls to uphold the religion of the Prophets and Apostles on this earth (The religion of monotheism). And Allah is All-Hearing what people who don't want to fight (hypocritical Muslims) and those who are willing to fight (Mujahid). Then the good will be rewarded with kindness. Conversely, crime will also be rewarded with crime.

You said:
(Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.)
Answer:
I want to ask you: 
did you witness what happened at that time?
If you say it like that, you like assume:
1. God has sided with the wrong person.
2. You seem to know better than historians.
3. Your statement is not in accordance with the word of Allah in the Quran 3:159

Explanation of the Quran (3:56)
It's true like that. It's the same if you oppose many laws that apply in your Country, what happens to you?
Therefore, the Prophet Muhammad invited humanity to follow the rules of Allah, God of all the Prophets, in order to get salvation including salvation for the hereafter.

Explanation of the Quran (3: 151)
Allah told to worship only to Him as all the Prophets and Apostles worship only to Him.
And that fear will be felt when someone is dying where the door to repentance has been closed.

Explanation of the Quran (4:74)
This verse contains two meanings, namely to fight with weapons for the sake of upholding the religion of Allah (Tawhid) and or fight without weapons, for example: teaching useful knowledge, helping the poor, fighting against lust etc. That also includes jihad or qital without weapons.

You said:
(The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.)

Answer:
Can you imagine if God told all Muslims to carry out suicide bombings, it would be against Quran 4: 29, 30.

Explanation of the Quran (4:76)
Yes, Satan is a real enemy of man, so Satan will try to persuade and fight those who believe in Allah until success. (Like the devil's request when he will be sent down to earth.)

Now it's my turn to ask you. 
Why haven't you answered my question in the article:
(Wants a proof that the Quran is God's word !!)
This is my question (Oct. 13, 2019)
Peace maker,
What do you mean:
"You won't be able to proof to me so don't waste your time.."
Are you telling me to prove it or what ?, please don't be biased, because there will be many people who see in this forum.
Thanks.

THE QURAN WAS IT ALLAH OR MUHAMMAD.
IS THIS A GENEROUS GOD'S WORDS OR MUHAMMAD'S OWN WORDS.

YOU WANT IT SO GET IT.

This is what Allah says… ‘Now go and strike the Infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.” Surah 27:63

Happy is he who repays the infidel for what they have done to us – he who seizes their infants and dashes them against the rocks.” – Surah 34:12

So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” – Surah 135:27

A Wife, must submit to her husband as to Allah.” – Surah 5:22

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Surah 21: 7-8

The Quran was not and is not the word of God which was written by Muhammad's so called advisors or so called Caliphs cause they haven't got a book so they concocted a false and corrupted book after Muhammad died and then they just did the same as Muhammad carry on with their cruelty of wars invations and war crimes

Till today your so called jihadist is still wage war Muslims against Muslims I am not even talking about the war against non muslims. 

WHAT? WHAT?

Be calm down sir, no need to tone like angry, I can see it.
Remember, the devil will easily come to the hearts of people who are angry.

I want to ask you, where do you find those surahs ?
For you to know that all the contains are wrong. 
The right contents are what MIAW explained to you.

I ask you what the name of the publisher of the Quran that you read, or whether the cover reads "Al Furqan Al Haq" (The True Furqan) ? published around 2005.
The contents of such fake Quran are very contrary to the Quran which is generally used by Muslims.
If you want to get the correct Quran contents, come to the Mosque in your area.
There are still people who want to destroy the religion of Allah on this earth.
But I am not worried because Allah will preserve its authenticity and even Allah will add to its light.



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 30 October 2019 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

You have been influenced by the behavior of some Muslims so you have that understanding.
Please remember, Islam does not teach radicalism.
If the Prophet Muhammad was a radical person, it was impossible for his teachings to spread throughout the world.
Here is the proof:
Allah Says:
"Then thanks to the grace of God you (Muhammad) are gentle to them. If you act hard and have a rough heart, surely they will distance themselves from your surroundings. Therefore forgive them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult with them in the matter. Then, if you have made up your mind, then put your trust in Allah. Truly, Allah loves those who tawakkal."
(Ali 'Imran 3: 159)

As for what you wrote (3,151) means Allah tells us that those who associate Him will go to hell.
And what you wrote (8.12)
You do not know why that word of Allah revealed.
That verse sent down to strengthen the Muslims Ummah during the Badr war when there were more opponents than the Muslims Ummah.
And Allah helped the Prophet Muhammad and his army with the help of angels.
It happened in the desert and rock hills. There is no civil society etc, only troops versus troops.
You said:
Muhammad boasted "I have been made victorious with terror" Bukhari 4:52:220  
Where did the hadith come from?
It was a political nuanced sentence so that everyone assumed that the Prophet Muhammad was arrogant and radical.
The correct is:
The Prophet sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said:
"This little army has won because of Allah's help."
I have told in this forum before that some of the hadiths are authentic and some are fake, except the Qoran.

You must make up your mind the hadith is not fake its sahih whuch means authentic and it proofs the QURAN SO LETS THEN STAY WITH QURAN AS YOU PLEASE.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'). 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers. 

 

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (Satan, etc.). So fight you against the friends of Shaitan (Satan)" The Arabic for the word "fight" is from qital, meaning physical combat.

This is what the QURAN says in context.

Explanation of the Quran 2: 244 and 2: 216
These verses explain that if we already know that there is no point in escaping death, like your country was attacked by another country, is it only the army that is obliged to fight? Or will all the people go to war?

When Islam will be destroyed, then Muslims must fight with all their wealth and souls to uphold the religion of the Prophets and Apostles on this earth (The religion of monotheism). And Allah is All-Hearing what people who don't want to fight (hypocritical Muslims) and those who are willing to fight (Mujahid). Then the good will be rewarded with kindness. Conversely, crime will also be rewarded with crime.

You said:
(Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.)
Answer:
I want to ask you: 
did you witness what happened at that time?
If you say it like that, you like assume:
1. God has sided with the wrong person.
2. You seem to know better than historians.
3. Your statement is not in accordance with the word of Allah in the Quran 3:159

Explanation of the Quran (3:56)
It's true like that. It's the same if you oppose many laws that apply in your Country, what happens to you?
Therefore, the Prophet Muhammad invited humanity to follow the rules of Allah, God of all the Prophets, in order to get salvation including salvation for the hereafter.

Explanation of the Quran (3: 151)
Allah told to worship only to Him as all the Prophets and Apostles worship only to Him.
And that fear will be felt when someone is dying where the door to repentance has been closed.

Explanation of the Quran (4:74)
This verse contains two meanings, namely to fight with weapons for the sake of upholding the religion of Allah (Tawhid) and or fight without weapons, for example: teaching useful knowledge, helping the poor, fighting against lust etc. That also includes jihad or qital without weapons.

You said:
(The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.)

Answer:
Can you imagine if God told all Muslims to carry out suicide bombings, it would be against Quran 4: 29, 30.

Explanation of the Quran (4:76)
Yes, Satan is a real enemy of man, so Satan will try to persuade and fight those who believe in Allah until success. (Like the devil's request when he will be sent down to earth.)

Now it's my turn to ask you. 
Why haven't you answered my question in the article:
(Wants a proof that the Quran is God's word !!)
This is my question (Oct. 13, 2019)
Peace maker,
What do you mean:
"You won't be able to proof to me so don't waste your time.."
Are you telling me to prove it or what ?, please don't be biased, because there will be many people who see in this forum.
Thanks.

THE QURAN WAS IT ALLAH OR MUHAMMAD.
IS THIS A GENEROUS GOD'S WORDS OR MUHAMMAD'S OWN WORDS.

YOU WANT IT SO GET IT.

This is what Allah says… ‘Now go and strike the Infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.” Surah 27:63

Happy is he who repays the infidel for what they have done to us – he who seizes their infants and dashes them against the rocks.” – Surah 34:12

So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” – Surah 135:27

A Wife, must submit to her husband as to Allah.” – Surah 5:22

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Surah 21: 7-8

The Quran was not and is not the word of God which was written by Muhammad's so called advisors or so called Caliphs cause they haven't got a book so they concocted a false and corrupted book after Muhammad died and then they just did the same as Muhammad carry on with their cruelty of wars invations and war crimes

Till today your so called jihadist is still wage war Muslims against Muslims I am not even talking about the war against non muslims. 

WHAT? WHAT?

Be calm down sir, no need to tone like angry, I can see it.
Remember, the devil will easily come to the hearts of people who are angry.

I want to ask you, where do you find those surahs ?
For you to know that all the contains are wrong. 
The right contents are what MIAW explained to you.

I ask you what the name of the publisher of the Quran that you read, or whether the cover reads "Al Furqan Al Haq" (The True Furqan) ? published around 2005.
The contents of such fake Quran are very contrary to the Quran which is generally used by Muslims.
If you want to get the correct Quran contents, come to the Mosque in your area.
There are still people who want to destroy the religion of Allah on this earth.
But I am not worried because Allah will preserve its authenticity and even Allah will add to its light.

  
Everything in the Quran is a fabrication now I have got your and MAIW attention the furgan is a fabrication just as the original Quran I don't know who wanted to brainwash Christians by that Quran Furqan to mislead them.
You can't crap into beter crap.
Which one do believe the true Furqan or the Fake Furqan.
O ye who was the reciter of the true Furqan?
Okay which Quran should you reomend me to read?
Warsh.
Qalun.
al-Duri.
Khalaf.
Hafs.
In about every Mosque there is a Quran with four or more books from the authentic hadiths.
Which Quran and which hadiths is in the Mosque which you attend to?


Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 30 October 2019 at 10:57pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

...Which one do believe the true Furqan or the Fake Furqan...

Oh dear!... Embarrassed

All my life... I have only known and came across... ONE QUR'AN (aka Furqan)... the one and only (for the past 1500 years)... but I have also known that there are other writings (attributed falsely to the Qur'an) that only exist in Hate speeches and leaflets, some haters' bookcases, and of course in their dreams.

Please stop acting like a 'floundering fish' out of water... by changing the subject and hopping between subjects:

You were asked a SIMPLE question in the last couple of posts... I really would like the answer... so here it is again:

Where (EXACTLY) did you get those fabricated/false/fake verses from??

Edition, Publisher, Author, Website...etc would help.

I am insisting to know... because most of Islam-haters like yourself usually base their hatred on false and fake Qur'an and Hadith... so they spend a lifetime in utter darkness and ignorance without knowing it... therefore, as you can see, I am trying to help you 'criticize' Islam and Muslims on a 'correct basis'... not a false (fake) basis... I hope that you can at least appreciate that.











Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 31 October 2019 at 11:59am
Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

...Which one do believe the true Furqan or the Fake Furqan...

Oh dear!... Embarrassed

All my life... I have only known and came across... ONE QUR'AN (aka Furqan)... the one and only (for the past 1500 years)... and I now presume that there are other writings (attributed to the Qur'an) that only exist in Hate speeches and leaflets, some haters' bookcases, and of course in their dreams.

Please stop acting like a 'floundering fish' out of water... by changing the subject and hopping between subjects:

You were asked a SIMPLE question in the last couple of posts... I really would like the answer... so here it is again:

Where (EXACTLY) did you get those fabricated/false/fake verses from??

Edition, Publisher, Author, Website...etc would help.

I am insisting to know... because most of Islam-haters like yourself usually base their hatred on false and fake Qur'an and Hadith... so they spend a lifetime in utter darkness and ignorance without knowing it... therefore, as you can see, I am trying to help you 'criticize' Islam and Muslims on a 'correct basis'... not a false (fake) basis... I hope that you can at least appreciate that.









 

The whole Quran is fake and fabricated and is a amalgamated concoction of various religions and pagan practises so it is catagorised as a cult of your false prophet Muhammad. 
Let me tell you one thing in this world you can and have not got the power to help me you can even help yourself now you want to help others to go to hell you beter wake up it seems to me you don't know how to read the Quran, O and Allah could only speak Arabic so much for an so called Almighty God.


Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 01 November 2019 at 1:42am

Peace maker,

No need to get upset or annoyed! We are all here searching for one thing: THE TRUTH. Wink
There's no need for us to hate each other... there is enough of that in today's world. Let's work together, hand in hand, to make the world a better place.

A couple of posts ago (above)... You came up with some verses (that you attributed falsely and unfairly to our Qur'an... verses that clearly depict GRAPHIC VIOLENCE  and savage rape against children, women and even  animals...etc.
We showed you what the real verses from our Qur'an say... and we asked you (repeatedly) to tell us where you got your verses from (because they are certainly NOT from our Qur'an)... but you still keep refusing to answer that question.

OK... I shall do you a favor by answering that question for you... they are from YOUR BIBLE. (Which version? ...all of them).

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

This is what Allah says… ‘Now go and strike the Infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.Surah 27:63 

This is found in 1 Samuel 15:3
https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Happy is he who repays the infidel for what they have done to us – he who seizes their infants and dashes them against the rocks.” – Surah 34:12 

This is found in Psalm 137:9

https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm

Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” – Surah 135:27

This is found in Judges 19:25

https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm

But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

A Wife, must submit to her husband as to Allah.” – Surah 5:22

This is found in Ephesians 5:22

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Surah 21: 7-8

This is found in Exodus 21:7

https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm

If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do


Now... I have noticed that you have changed some words, in order to make it look like it's from our Qur'an... but don't worry, I don't blame you, you can't help it, it's not your fault... for you come from a long line of people who have excelled in this practice (for thousands of years)... and succeeded in changing and corrupting all previous books sent by God (Allah SWT). But they have not and will not succeed with corrupting the incorruptible: The Holy Qur'an.


Contrary to what you read and hear in your media, hate speeches, Islamophobe rallyes and  websites ...etc, Islam came to put a stop to the mistreatment (burial) of infants, came to free women from Men's injustice, came to abolish slavery, came to encourage humane treatment of animals...etc... and that is how any Muslim knows straight away that the verses you quoted above are not from the Qur'an... not from God (Allah SWT)... and not even from the original Bible.








Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 01 November 2019 at 7:59am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

You have been influenced by the behavior of some Muslims so you have that understanding.
Please remember, Islam does not teach radicalism.
If the Prophet Muhammad was a radical person, it was impossible for his teachings to spread throughout the world.
Here is the proof:
Allah Says:
"Then thanks to the grace of God you (Muhammad) are gentle to them. If you act hard and have a rough heart, surely they will distance themselves from your surroundings. Therefore forgive them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult with them in the matter. Then, if you have made up your mind, then put your trust in Allah. Truly, Allah loves those who tawakkal."
(Ali 'Imran 3: 159)

As for what you wrote (3,151) means Allah tells us that those who associate Him will go to hell.
And what you wrote (8.12)
You do not know why that word of Allah revealed.
That verse sent down to strengthen the Muslims Ummah during the Badr war when there were more opponents than the Muslims Ummah.
And Allah helped the Prophet Muhammad and his army with the help of angels.
It happened in the desert and rock hills. There is no civil society etc, only troops versus troops.
You said:
Muhammad boasted "I have been made victorious with terror" Bukhari 4:52:220  
Where did the hadith come from?
It was a political nuanced sentence so that everyone assumed that the Prophet Muhammad was arrogant and radical.
The correct is:
The Prophet sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said:
"This little army has won because of Allah's help."
I have told in this forum before that some of the hadiths are authentic and some are fake, except the Qoran.

You must make up your mind the hadith is not fake its sahih whuch means authentic and it proofs the QURAN SO LETS THEN STAY WITH QURAN AS YOU PLEASE.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'). 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers. 

 

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (Satan, etc.). So fight you against the friends of Shaitan (Satan)" The Arabic for the word "fight" is from qital, meaning physical combat.

This is what the QURAN says in context.

Explanation of the Quran 2: 244 and 2: 216
These verses explain that if we already know that there is no point in escaping death, like your country was attacked by another country, is it only the army that is obliged to fight? Or will all the people go to war?

When Islam will be destroyed, then Muslims must fight with all their wealth and souls to uphold the religion of the Prophets and Apostles on this earth (The religion of monotheism). And Allah is All-Hearing what people who don't want to fight (hypocritical Muslims) and those who are willing to fight (Mujahid). Then the good will be rewarded with kindness. Conversely, crime will also be rewarded with crime.

You said:
(Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.)
Answer:
I want to ask you: 
did you witness what happened at that time?
If you say it like that, you like assume:
1. God has sided with the wrong person.
2. You seem to know better than historians.
3. Your statement is not in accordance with the word of Allah in the Quran 3:159

Explanation of the Quran (3:56)
It's true like that. It's the same if you oppose many laws that apply in your Country, what happens to you?
Therefore, the Prophet Muhammad invited humanity to follow the rules of Allah, God of all the Prophets, in order to get salvation including salvation for the hereafter.

Explanation of the Quran (3: 151)
Allah told to worship only to Him as all the Prophets and Apostles worship only to Him.
And that fear will be felt when someone is dying where the door to repentance has been closed.

Explanation of the Quran (4:74)
This verse contains two meanings, namely to fight with weapons for the sake of upholding the religion of Allah (Tawhid) and or fight without weapons, for example: teaching useful knowledge, helping the poor, fighting against lust etc. That also includes jihad or qital without weapons.

You said:
(The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.)

Answer:
Can you imagine if God told all Muslims to carry out suicide bombings, it would be against Quran 4: 29, 30.

Explanation of the Quran (4:76)
Yes, Satan is a real enemy of man, so Satan will try to persuade and fight those who believe in Allah until success. (Like the devil's request when he will be sent down to earth.)

Now it's my turn to ask you. 
Why haven't you answered my question in the article:
(Wants a proof that the Quran is God's word !!)
This is my question (Oct. 13, 2019)
Peace maker,
What do you mean:
"You won't be able to proof to me so don't waste your time.."
Are you telling me to prove it or what ?, please don't be biased, because there will be many people who see in this forum.
Thanks.

THE QURAN WAS IT ALLAH OR MUHAMMAD.
IS THIS A GENEROUS GOD'S WORDS OR MUHAMMAD'S OWN WORDS.

YOU WANT IT SO GET IT.

This is what Allah says… ‘Now go and strike the Infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.” Surah 27:63

Happy is he who repays the infidel for what they have done to us – he who seizes their infants and dashes them against the rocks.” – Surah 34:12

So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” – Surah 135:27

A Wife, must submit to her husband as to Allah.” – Surah 5:22

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Surah 21: 7-8

The Quran was not and is not the word of God which was written by Muhammad's so called advisors or so called Caliphs cause they haven't got a book so they concocted a false and corrupted book after Muhammad died and then they just did the same as Muhammad carry on with their cruelty of wars invations and war crimes

Till today your so called jihadist is still wage war Muslims against Muslims I am not even talking about the war against non muslims. 

WHAT? WHAT?

Be calm down sir, no need to tone like angry, I can see it.
Remember, the devil will easily come to the hearts of people who are angry.

I want to ask you, where do you find those surahs ?
For you to know that all the contains are wrong. 
The right contents are what MIAW explained to you.

I ask you what the name of the publisher of the Quran that you read, or whether the cover reads "Al Furqan Al Haq" (The True Furqan) ? published around 2005.
The contents of such fake Quran are very contrary to the Quran which is generally used by Muslims.
If you want to get the correct Quran contents, come to the Mosque in your area.
There are still people who want to destroy the religion of Allah on this earth.
But I am not worried because Allah will preserve its authenticity and even Allah will add to its light.

  
Everything in the Quran is a fabrication now I have got your and MAIW attention the furgan is a fabrication just as the original Quran I don't know who wanted to brainwash Christians by that Quran Furqan to mislead them.
You can't crap into beter crap.
Which one do believe the true Furqan or the Fake Furqan.
O ye who was the reciter of the true Furqan?
Okay which Quran should you reomend me to read?
Warsh.
Qalun.
al-Duri.
Khalaf.
Hafs.
In about every Mosque there is a Quran with four or more books from the authentic hadiths.
Which Quran and which hadiths is in the Mosque which you attend to?
You said:
"The whole Quran is fake"
If so, you also don't believe in Jesus' miracles in the Quran, whereas you say yourself 
"the Christian Apocrypa in the Quran is 100% right do you agree"

I and MIAW do not intend to brainwash you but only convey the truth of the teachings of the Prophets and Apostles of Allah.
You believe it or not, it doesn't matter to Muslims because only Allah can give Hidayah (guidance).

You said:
"Which one do believe the true Furqan or the Fake Furqan."

It is definitely the true Quran from Allah, not the Quran which is published by the people who do not like the truth of the Quran.

You said:
"O ye who was the reciter of the true Furqan? Okay which Quran should you reomend me to read?"

All Muslims read the true Quran.
I recommend you to send the Quran and the Gospels that you read now. Insyaa Allah, I will be able to explain it to you.
And the Quran that I read is the Quran that has passed censorship from the Ministry of Religion which consists of Arabic linguists, Nahwu science, And the memorization of the Quran (
In accordance with sura 15: 9)

I don't know why every time I ask you about the Gospel, you do not directly answer it or you turn to talking about the contents of the Quran, and I still always answer it. All can judge in this forum about a person's personality through the contents of his writings.




Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 02 November 2019 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:


Peace maker,

No need to get upset or annoyed! We are all here searching for one thing: THE TRUTH. Wink
There's no need for us to hate each other... there is enough of that in today's world. Let's work together, hand in hand, to make the world a better place.

A couple of posts ago (above)... You came up with some verses (that you attributed falsely and unfairly to our Qur'an... verses that clearly depict GRAPHIC VIOLENCE  and savage rape against children, women and even  animals...etc.
We showed you what the real verses from our Qur'an say... and we asked you (repeatedly) to tell us where you got your verses from (because they are certainly NOT from our Qur'an)... but you still keep refusing to answer that question.

OK... I shall do you a favor by answering that question for you... they are from YOUR BIBLE. (Which version? ...all of them).

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

This is what Allah says… ‘Now go and strike the Infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.Surah 27:63 

This is found in 1 Samuel 15:3
https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Happy is he who repays the infidel for what they have done to us – he who seizes their infants and dashes them against the rocks.” – Surah 34:12 

This is found in Psalm 137:9

https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm

Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” – Surah 135:27

This is found in Judges 19:25

https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm

But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

A Wife, must submit to her husband as to Allah.” – Surah 5:22

This is found in Ephesians 5:22

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Surah 21: 7-8

This is found in Exodus 21:7

https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm

If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do


Now... I have noticed that you have changed some words, in order to make it look like it's from our Qur'an... but don't worry, I don't blame you, you can't help it, it's not your fault... for you come from a long line of people who have excelled in this practice (for thousands of years)... and succeeded in changing and corrupting all previous books sent by God (Allah SWT). But they have not and will not succeed with corrupting the incorruptible: The Holy Qur'an.


Contrary to what you read and hear in your media, hate speeches, Islamophobe rallyes and  websites ...etc, Islam came to put a stop to the mistreatment (burial) of infants, came to free women from Men's injustice, came to abolish slavery, came to encourage humane treatment of animals...etc... and that is how any Muslim knows straight away that the verses you quoted above are not from the Qur'an... not from God (Allah SWT)... and not even from the original Bible.


I just would like to add this:

The Qur'an was sent by The Almighty God (Allah SWT) to all mankind... in order to set records straight, to cancel and correct all the corruptions and alterations that your ancestors have contaminated Allah's scriptures with (Bible, Torah,...etc), to inform how one should live according to the correct Word (Will) of God... and to inform (in detail) on the consequences to those who choose to follow corrupted  rather than True Word (Will) of God.




Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 03 November 2019 at 2:16am

Quote I just would like to add this:

The Qur'an was sent by The Almighty God (Allah SWT) to all mankind... in order to set records straight, to cancel and correct all the corruptions and alterations that your ancestors have contaminated Allah's scriptures with (Bible, Torah,...etc), to inform how one should live according to the correct Word (Will) of God... and to inform (in detail) on the consequences to those who choose to follow corrupted  rather than True Word (Will) of God.


Which you can prove with the following evidence that is clearly special to just your religion;


_________________________________________________________________________


Please fill in the blank.



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 08 November 2019 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:


Peace maker,

No need to get upset or annoyed! We are all here searching for one thing: THE TRUTH. Wink
There's no need for us to hate each other... there is enough of that in today's world. Let's work together, hand in hand, to make the world a better place.

A couple of posts ago (above)... You came up with some verses (that you attributed falsely and unfairly to our Qur'an... verses that clearly depict GRAPHIC VIOLENCE  and savage rape against children, women and even  animals...etc.
We showed you what the real verses from our Qur'an say... and we asked you (repeatedly) to tell us where you got your verses from (because they are certainly NOT from our Qur'an)... but you still keep refusing to answer that question.

OK... I shall do you a favor by answering that question for you... they are from YOUR BIBLE. (Which version? ...all of them).

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

This is what Allah says… ‘Now go and strike the Infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.Surah 27:63 

This is found in 1 Samuel 15:3
https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Happy is he who repays the infidel for what they have done to us – he who seizes their infants and dashes them against the rocks.” – Surah 34:12 

This is found in Psalm 137:9

https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm

Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” – Surah 135:27

This is found in Judges 19:25

https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm

But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

A Wife, must submit to her husband as to Allah.” – Surah 5:22

This is found in Ephesians 5:22

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Surah 21: 7-8

This is found in Exodus 21:7

https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm

If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do


Now... I have noticed that you have changed some words, in order to make it look like it's from our Qur'an... but don't worry, I don't blame you, you can't help it, it's not your fault... for you come from a long line of people who have excelled in this practice (for thousands of years)... and succeeded in changing and corrupting all previous books sent by God (Allah SWT). But they have not and will not succeed with corrupting the incorruptible: The Holy Qur'an.


Contrary to what you read and hear in your media, hate speeches, Islamophobe rallyes and  websites ...etc, Islam came to put a stop to the mistreatment (burial) of infants, came to free women from Men's injustice, came to abolish slavery, came to encourage humane treatment of animals...etc... and that is how any Muslim knows straight away that the verses you quoted above are not from the Qur'an... not from God (Allah SWT)... and not even from the original Bible.


I just would like to add this:

The Qur'an was sent by The Almighty God (Allah SWT) to all mankind... in order to set records straight, to cancel and correct all the corruptions and alterations that your ancestors have contaminated Allah's scriptures with (Bible, Torah,...etc), to inform how one should live according to the correct Word (Will) of God... and to inform (in detail) on the consequences to those who choose to follow corrupted  rather than True Word (Will) of God.



If this what I qouted was realy from the Quran you would have an exquise for it and it would be interpreted in the tafsir, but muslims claim we all jews muslims and christians worship the same God that is a lot of nonsense if something does not add up in the Quran then there is some tafsir explain it to save the day. 


Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 04 December 2019 at 1:52am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:


Peace maker,

No need to get upset or annoyed! We are all here searching for one thing: THE TRUTH. Wink
There's no need for us to hate each other... there is enough of that in today's world. Let's work together, hand in hand, to make the world a better place.

A couple of posts ago (above)... You came up with some verses (that you attributed falsely and unfairly to our Qur'an... verses that clearly depict GRAPHIC VIOLENCE  and savage rape against children, women and even  animals...etc.
We showed you what the real verses from our Qur'an say... and we asked you (repeatedly) to tell us where you got your verses from (because they are certainly NOT from our Qur'an)... but you still keep refusing to answer that question.

OK... I shall do you a favor by answering that question for you... they are from YOUR BIBLE. (Which version? ...all of them).

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

This is what Allah says… ‘Now go and strike the Infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.Surah 27:63 

This is found in 1 Samuel 15:3
https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Happy is he who repays the infidel for what they have done to us – he who seizes their infants and dashes them against the rocks.” – Surah 34:12 

This is found in Psalm 137:9

https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm

Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” – Surah 135:27

This is found in Judges 19:25

https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm

But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

A Wife, must submit to her husband as to Allah.” – Surah 5:22

This is found in Ephesians 5:22

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Surah 21: 7-8

This is found in Exodus 21:7

https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm

If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do


Now... I have noticed that you have changed some words, in order to make it look like it's from our Qur'an... but don't worry, I don't blame you, you can't help it, it's not your fault... for you come from a long line of people who have excelled in this practice (for thousands of years)... and succeeded in changing and corrupting all previous books sent by God (Allah SWT). But they have not and will not succeed with corrupting the incorruptible: The Holy Qur'an.


Contrary to what you read and hear in your media, hate speeches, Islamophobe rallyes and  websites ...etc, Islam came to put a stop to the mistreatment (burial) of infants, came to free women from Men's injustice, came to abolish slavery, came to encourage humane treatment of animals...etc... and that is how any Muslim knows straight away that the verses you quoted above are not from the Qur'an... not from God (Allah SWT)... and not even from the original Bible.


I just would like to add this:

The Qur'an was sent by The Almighty God (Allah SWT) to all mankind... in order to set records straight, to cancel and correct all the corruptions and alterations that your ancestors have contaminated Allah's scriptures with (Bible, Torah,...etc), to inform how one should live according to the correct Word (Will) of God... and to inform (in detail) on the consequences to those who choose to follow corrupted  rather than True Word (Will) of God.



If this what I qouted was realy from the Quran you would have an exquise for it and it would be interpreted in the tafsir, but muslims claim we all jews muslims and christians worship the same God that is a lot of nonsense if something does not add up in the Quran then there is some tafsir explain it to save the day. 
MIAW, I'am so sorry I want to join in explaining it.

Peace maker,
That is true what Muslim say that we should only worship to Allah (to one God) as taught by Prophet Musa (Moses), Prophet Isa (Jesus), and Prophet Muhammad.
But why their followers do is different ?
Prophet Moses, Prophet Jesus, Prophet Muhammad were the Messengers of Allah and they only worshiped to one God (Allah), even they also did salah (prayer).



Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 05 December 2019 at 8:19am

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

MIAW, I'am so sorry I want to join in explaining it.



It's ok. Jazakallahu Khairan Asep for your contributions.





Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 06 December 2019 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:


Peace maker,

No need to get upset or annoyed! We are all here searching for one thing: THE TRUTH. Wink
There's no need for us to hate each other... there is enough of that in today's world. Let's work together, hand in hand, to make the world a better place.

A couple of posts ago (above)... You came up with some verses (that you attributed falsely and unfairly to our Qur'an... verses that clearly depict GRAPHIC VIOLENCE  and savage rape against children, women and even  animals...etc.
We showed you what the real verses from our Qur'an say... and we asked you (repeatedly) to tell us where you got your verses from (because they are certainly NOT from our Qur'an)... but you still keep refusing to answer that question.

OK... I shall do you a favor by answering that question for you... they are from YOUR BIBLE. (Which version? ...all of them).

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

This is what Allah says… ‘Now go and strike the Infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.Surah 27:63 

This is found in 1 Samuel 15:3
https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Happy is he who repays the infidel for what they have done to us – he who seizes their infants and dashes them against the rocks.” – Surah 34:12 

This is found in Psalm 137:9

https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm

Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” – Surah 135:27

This is found in Judges 19:25

https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm

But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

A Wife, must submit to her husband as to Allah.” – Surah 5:22

This is found in Ephesians 5:22

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Surah 21: 7-8

This is found in Exodus 21:7

https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm

If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do


Now... I have noticed that you have changed some words, in order to make it look like it's from our Qur'an... but don't worry, I don't blame you, you can't help it, it's not your fault... for you come from a long line of people who have excelled in this practice (for thousands of years)... and succeeded in changing and corrupting all previous books sent by God (Allah SWT). But they have not and will not succeed with corrupting the incorruptible: The Holy Qur'an.


Contrary to what you read and hear in your media, hate speeches, Islamophobe rallyes and  websites ...etc, Islam came to put a stop to the mistreatment (burial) of infants, came to free women from Men's injustice, came to abolish slavery, came to encourage humane treatment of animals...etc... and that is how any Muslim knows straight away that the verses you quoted above are not from the Qur'an... not from God (Allah SWT)... and not even from the original Bible.


I just would like to add this:

The Qur'an was sent by The Almighty God (Allah SWT) to all mankind... in order to set records straight, to cancel and correct all the corruptions and alterations that your ancestors have contaminated Allah's scriptures with (Bible, Torah,...etc), to inform how one should live according to the correct Word (Will) of God... and to inform (in detail) on the consequences to those who choose to follow corrupted  rather than True Word (Will) of God.



If this what I qouted was realy from the Quran you would have an exquise for it and it would be interpreted in the tafsir, but muslims claim we all jews muslims and christians worship the same God that is a lot of nonsense if something does not add up in the Quran then there is some tafsir explain it to save the day. 
MIAW, I'am so sorry I want to join in explaining it.

Peace maker,
That is true what Muslim say that we should only worship to Allah (to one God) as taught by Prophet Musa (Moses), Prophet Isa (Jesus), and Prophet Muhammad.
But why their followers do is different ?
Prophet Moses, Prophet Jesus, Prophet Muhammad were the Messengers of Allah and they only worshiped to one God (Allah), even they also did salah (prayer).


Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15).

More recently, an Islamic court in Malaysia ruled that only Muslims can use the name “Allah” in print publications. “The usage of the word will cause confusion in the community,” the chief judge ruled. Oddly enough, Christians may well agree with this Islamic judge. To call God “Allah” is to invite confusion

It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located.

As Muhammad grew weary from evangelizing his new religion with little success, he was tricked by the devil into adding a verse in the Koran that commanded Muslims to pray to Allah's three pagan daughters Lat, Uzza and Manat. The pagan female trinity was immediately accepted without dissent and the passage was considered part of the revealed Koran. However some time later, Muhammad got a revelation from God that the verse should be removed. After repenting of the error, Muhammad was comforted by God.

Muhammad did not put the three daughters of Allah in the Quran by accident it was to flatter the pagans to convert to his religion then afterwards he found he was confronted by his fellow muslims he was quickly to respond,O thats  Satan who put the words in his mouth and then Jibrill came Muhammad and said what have you done and his so called angel. Jibrill rescue Muhammad of his so called error.(which was not and error)

So in your own words how do you define Allah for me the one in the Quran and  Allah in Bible can you give the comparison why Allah never had three daughters in the Bible so if Allah is the same always and he never changed why is Allah in the Quran then the direct opisite of the Allah in the bible the Quran contradict the Bible completely.

Matthew 24:35

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,




Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 07 December 2019 at 2:34am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:


Peace maker,

No need to get upset or annoyed! We are all here searching for one thing: THE TRUTH. Wink
There's no need for us to hate each other... there is enough of that in today's world. Let's work together, hand in hand, to make the world a better place.

A couple of posts ago (above)... You came up with some verses (that you attributed falsely and unfairly to our Qur'an... verses that clearly depict GRAPHIC VIOLENCE  and savage rape against children, women and even  animals...etc.
We showed you what the real verses from our Qur'an say... and we asked you (repeatedly) to tell us where you got your verses from (because they are certainly NOT from our Qur'an)... but you still keep refusing to answer that question.

OK... I shall do you a favor by answering that question for you... they are from YOUR BIBLE. (Which version? ...all of them).

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

This is what Allah says… ‘Now go and strike the Infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.Surah 27:63 

This is found in 1 Samuel 15:3
https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Happy is he who repays the infidel for what they have done to us – he who seizes their infants and dashes them against the rocks.” – Surah 34:12 

This is found in Psalm 137:9

https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm

Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” – Surah 135:27

This is found in Judges 19:25

https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm

But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

A Wife, must submit to her husband as to Allah.” – Surah 5:22

This is found in Ephesians 5:22

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Surah 21: 7-8

This is found in Exodus 21:7

https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm

If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do


Now... I have noticed that you have changed some words, in order to make it look like it's from our Qur'an... but don't worry, I don't blame you, you can't help it, it's not your fault... for you come from a long line of people who have excelled in this practice (for thousands of years)... and succeeded in changing and corrupting all previous books sent by God (Allah SWT). But they have not and will not succeed with corrupting the incorruptible: The Holy Qur'an.


Contrary to what you read and hear in your media, hate speeches, Islamophobe rallyes and  websites ...etc, Islam came to put a stop to the mistreatment (burial) of infants, came to free women from Men's injustice, came to abolish slavery, came to encourage humane treatment of animals...etc... and that is how any Muslim knows straight away that the verses you quoted above are not from the Qur'an... not from God (Allah SWT)... and not even from the original Bible.


I just would like to add this:

The Qur'an was sent by The Almighty God (Allah SWT) to all mankind... in order to set records straight, to cancel and correct all the corruptions and alterations that your ancestors have contaminated Allah's scriptures with (Bible, Torah,...etc), to inform how one should live according to the correct Word (Will) of God... and to inform (in detail) on the consequences to those who choose to follow corrupted  rather than True Word (Will) of God.



If this what I qouted was realy from the Quran you would have an exquise for it and it would be interpreted in the tafsir, but muslims claim we all jews muslims and christians worship the same God that is a lot of nonsense if something does not add up in the Quran then there is some tafsir explain it to save the day. 
MIAW, I'am so sorry I want to join in explaining it.

Peace maker,
That is true what Muslim say that we should only worship to Allah (to one God) as taught by Prophet Musa (Moses), Prophet Isa (Jesus), and Prophet Muhammad.
But why their followers do is different ?
Prophet Moses, Prophet Jesus, Prophet Muhammad were the Messengers of Allah and they only worshiped to one God (Allah), even they also did salah (prayer).


Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15).

More recently, an Islamic court in Malaysia ruled that only Muslims can use the name “Allah” in print publications. “The usage of the word will cause confusion in the community,” the chief judge ruled. Oddly enough, Christians may well agree with this Islamic judge. To call God “Allah” is to invite confusion

It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located.

As Muhammad grew weary from evangelizing his new religion with little success, he was tricked by the devil into adding a verse in the Koran that commanded Muslims to pray to Allah's three pagan daughters Lat, Uzza and Manat. The pagan female trinity was immediately accepted without dissent and the passage was considered part of the revealed Koran. However some time later, Muhammad got a revelation from God that the verse should be removed. After repenting of the error, Muhammad was comforted by God.

Muhammad did not put the three daughters of Allah in the Quran by accident it was to flatter the pagans to convert to his religion then afterwards he found he was confronted by his fellow muslims he was quickly to respond,O thats  Satan who put the words in his mouth and then Jibrill came Muhammad and said what have you done and his so called angel. Jibrill rescue Muhammad of his so called error.(which was not and error)

So in your own words how do you define Allah for me the one in the Quran and  Allah in Bible can you give the comparison why Allah never had three daughters in the Bible so if Allah is the same always and he never changed why is Allah in the Quran then the direct opisite of the Allah in the bible the Quran contradict the Bible completely.

Matthew 24:35

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,


(Does God care what we call Him?)

Answer:
Yes, God cares even hears what is whispered in our hearts.

(Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?)

Answer:
It should worship the same God, only to one God.
Please try to meditate on these words of God.

Deuteronomy 6: 4
"Hear, O Israel, that God is our Lord, and God is one."

The Qoran 112: 1
قُلْ هُوَ اللّٰهُ اَحَدٌ  
"Say (Muhammad), He is Allah, the One." 

(God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations”) (Exodus 3:15).

Answer:
Yes, God says like that, but try to take note that this word is for whom? Israel or all humans? are you Israel?
How about these words of God ?
Matthew 15:24 
"Jesus answered, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the people of Israel."

The Qoran 43: 59
إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا عَبْدٌ �£َنْعَمْنَا عَلَيْهِ وَجَعَلْنَاهُ مَثَلًا لِّبَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ
"'Isa (Jesus) is nothing but a servant of Allah whom We gave him favors and made him a proof (of God's power) for the Children of Israel."

(More recently, an Islamic court in Malaysia ruled that only Muslims can use the name “Allah” in print publications. “The usage of the word will cause confusion in the community,” the chief judge ruled. Oddly enough, Christians may well agree with this Islamic judge. To call God “Allah” is to invite confusion)

Answer:
That is the regulation in their own Country, not for all Countries.

(It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located.)

Answer:
That's why the Prophet Muhammad was born in Mecca whose part of his tasks was to realign the teachings of the Tawheed of the previous Prophets.

(As Muhammad grew weary from evangelizing his new religion with little success, he was tricked by the devil into adding a verse in the Koran that commanded Muslims to pray to Allah's three pagan daughters Lat, Uzza and Manat. The pagan female trinity was immediately accepted without dissent and the passage was considered part of the revealed Koran. However some time later, Muhammad got a revelation from God that the verse should be removed. After repenting of the error, Muhammad was comforted by God.)

Answer:
The Prophet Muhammad was not deceived by the devil, on the contrary, the Prophet Muhammad invited people to fight the devil.

(Muhammad did not put the three daughters of Allah in the Quran by accident it was to flatter the pagans to convert to his religion then afterwards he found he was confronted by his fellow muslims he was quickly to respond,O thats  Satan who put the words in his mouth and then Jibrill came Muhammad and said what have you done and his so called angel. Jibrill rescue Muhammad of his so called error.(which was not and error)

Answer:
The Prophet Muhammad only received revelations from his God, he did not dare to change the words of Allah (whether it's adding or subtracting)

(So in your own words how do you define Allah for me the one in the Quran and  Allah in Bible can you give the comparison why Allah never had three daughters in the Bible so if Allah is the same always and he never changed why is Allah in the Quran then the direct opisite of the Allah in the bible the Quran contradict the Bible completely.)

Answer:
Try to think, if God has children it means He will have grandchildren too and so on.
It could be that one day His children will fight for power.

Glory to Allah from what they think.

(Matthew 24:35
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.)

Answer:
Here is the difference, who wrote in the Gospels
"BUT MY FATHER ONLY"?
Who is He ?, God or Father?
God doesn't have wife and children, while Father has wife and children.




Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 07 December 2019 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:


Peace maker,

No need to get upset or annoyed! We are all here searching for one thing: THE TRUTH. Wink
There's no need for us to hate each other... there is enough of that in today's world. Let's work together, hand in hand, to make the world a better place.

A couple of posts ago (above)... You came up with some verses (that you attributed falsely and unfairly to our Qur'an... verses that clearly depict GRAPHIC VIOLENCE  and savage rape against children, women and even  animals...etc.
We showed you what the real verses from our Qur'an say... and we asked you (repeatedly) to tell us where you got your verses from (because they are certainly NOT from our Qur'an)... but you still keep refusing to answer that question.

OK... I shall do you a favor by answering that question for you... they are from YOUR BIBLE. (Which version? ...all of them).

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

This is what Allah says… ‘Now go and strike the Infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.Surah 27:63 

This is found in 1 Samuel 15:3
https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/1_samuel/15-3.htm

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Happy is he who repays the infidel for what they have done to us – he who seizes their infants and dashes them against the rocks.” – Surah 34:12 

This is found in Psalm 137:9

https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm

Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks



Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” – Surah 135:27

This is found in Judges 19:25

https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/judges/19-25.htm

But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

A Wife, must submit to her husband as to Allah.” – Surah 5:22

This is found in Ephesians 5:22

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-22.htm

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord




Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” – Surah 21: 7-8

This is found in Exodus 21:7

https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm" rel="nofollow - https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm

If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do


Now... I have noticed that you have changed some words, in order to make it look like it's from our Qur'an... but don't worry, I don't blame you, you can't help it, it's not your fault... for you come from a long line of people who have excelled in this practice (for thousands of years)... and succeeded in changing and corrupting all previous books sent by God (Allah SWT). But they have not and will not succeed with corrupting the incorruptible: The Holy Qur'an.


Contrary to what you read and hear in your media, hate speeches, Islamophobe rallyes and  websites ...etc, Islam came to put a stop to the mistreatment (burial) of infants, came to free women from Men's injustice, came to abolish slavery, came to encourage humane treatment of animals...etc... and that is how any Muslim knows straight away that the verses you quoted above are not from the Qur'an... not from God (Allah SWT)... and not even from the original Bible.


I just would like to add this:

The Qur'an was sent by The Almighty God (Allah SWT) to all mankind... in order to set records straight, to cancel and correct all the corruptions and alterations that your ancestors have contaminated Allah's scriptures with (Bible, Torah,...etc), to inform how one should live according to the correct Word (Will) of God... and to inform (in detail) on the consequences to those who choose to follow corrupted  rather than True Word (Will) of God.



If this what I qouted was realy from the Quran you would have an exquise for it and it would be interpreted in the tafsir, but muslims claim we all jews muslims and christians worship the same God that is a lot of nonsense if something does not add up in the Quran then there is some tafsir explain it to save the day. 
MIAW, I'am so sorry I want to join in explaining it.

Peace maker,
That is true what Muslim say that we should only worship to Allah (to one God) as taught by Prophet Musa (Moses), Prophet Isa (Jesus), and Prophet Muhammad.
But why their followers do is different ?
Prophet Moses, Prophet Jesus, Prophet Muhammad were the Messengers of Allah and they only worshiped to one God (Allah), even they also did salah (prayer).


Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15).

More recently, an Islamic court in Malaysia ruled that only Muslims can use the name “Allah” in print publications. “The usage of the word will cause confusion in the community,” the chief judge ruled. Oddly enough, Christians may well agree with this Islamic judge. To call God “Allah” is to invite confusion

It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located.

As Muhammad grew weary from evangelizing his new religion with little success, he was tricked by the devil into adding a verse in the Koran that commanded Muslims to pray to Allah's three pagan daughters Lat, Uzza and Manat. The pagan female trinity was immediately accepted without dissent and the passage was considered part of the revealed Koran. However some time later, Muhammad got a revelation from God that the verse should be removed. After repenting of the error, Muhammad was comforted by God.

Muhammad did not put the three daughters of Allah in the Quran by accident it was to flatter the pagans to convert to his religion then afterwards he found he was confronted by his fellow muslims he was quickly to respond,O thats  Satan who put the words in his mouth and then Jibrill came Muhammad and said what have you done and his so called angel. Jibrill rescue Muhammad of his so called error.(which was not and error)

So in your own words how do you define Allah for me the one in the Quran and  Allah in Bible can you give the comparison why Allah never had three daughters in the Bible so if Allah is the same always and he never changed why is Allah in the Quran then the direct opisite of the Allah in the bible the Quran contradict the Bible completely.

Matthew 24:35

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,


(Does God care what we call Him?)

Answer:
Yes, God cares even hears what is whispered in our hearts.

(Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?)

Answer:
It should worship the same God, only to one God.
Please try to meditate on these words of God.

Deuteronomy 6: 4
"Hear, O Israel, that God is our Lord, and God is one."

The Qoran 112: 1
قُلْ هُوَ اللّٰهُ اَحَدٌ  
"Say (Muhammad), He is Allah, the One." 

(God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations”) (Exodus 3:15).

Answer:
Yes, God says like that, but try to take note that this word is for whom? Israel or all humans? are you Israel?
How about these words of God ?
Matthew 15:24 
"Jesus answered, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the people of Israel."

The Qoran 43: 59
إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا عَبْدٌ �£َنْعَمْنَا عَلَيْهِ وَجَعَلْنَاهُ مَثَلًا لِّبَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ
"'Isa (Jesus) is nothing but a servant of Allah whom We gave him favors and made him a proof (of God's power) for the Children of Israel."

(More recently, an Islamic court in Malaysia ruled that only Muslims can use the name “Allah” in print publications. “The usage of the word will cause confusion in the community,” the chief judge ruled. Oddly enough, Christians may well agree with this Islamic judge. To call God “Allah” is to invite confusion)

Answer:
That is the regulation in their own Country, not for all Countries.

(It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located.)

Answer:
That's why the Prophet Muhammad was born in Mecca whose part of his tasks was to realign the teachings of the Tawheed of the previous Prophets.

(As Muhammad grew weary from evangelizing his new religion with little success, he was tricked by the devil into adding a verse in the Koran that commanded Muslims to pray to Allah's three pagan daughters Lat, Uzza and Manat. The pagan female trinity was immediately accepted without dissent and the passage was considered part of the revealed Koran. However some time later, Muhammad got a revelation from God that the verse should be removed. After repenting of the error, Muhammad was comforted by God.)

Answer:
The Prophet Muhammad was not deceived by the devil, on the contrary, the Prophet Muhammad invited people to fight the devil.

(Muhammad did not put the three daughters of Allah in the Quran by accident it was to flatter the pagans to convert to his religion then afterwards he found he was confronted by his fellow muslims he was quickly to respond,O thats  Satan who put the words in his mouth and then Jibrill came Muhammad and said what have you done and his so called angel. Jibrill rescue Muhammad of his so called error.(which was not and error)

Answer:
The Prophet Muhammad only received revelations from his God, he did not dare to change the words of Allah (whether it's adding or subtracting)

(So in your own words how do you define Allah for me the one in the Quran and  Allah in Bible can you give the comparison why Allah never had three daughters in the Bible so if Allah is the same always and he never changed why is Allah in the Quran then the direct opisite of the Allah in the bible the Quran contradict the Bible completely.)

Answer:
Try to think, if God has children it means He will have grandchildren too and so on.
It could be that one day His children will fight for power.

Glory to Allah from what they think.

(Matthew 24:35
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.)

Answer:
Here is the difference, who wrote in the Gospels
"BUT MY FATHER ONLY"?
Who is He ?, God or Father?
God doesn't have wife and children, while Father has wife and children.




(Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?)

Answer:
It should worship the same God, only to one God.
Please try to meditate on these words of God.

IT SHOULD, IT SHOULD WHAT YES OR NO ANSWER IS NO ALLAH WAS THE NAME WHAT THE PAGANS CALL THEIR GOD.  UPON.

YAHWEH:
The Name Above All Names

  Exodus 19:5-6—
5 Now therefore, if you will truly obey My voice, by keeping My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine.
6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation

Deuteronomy 28:9-10—
9 Yahweh will establish you as His Holy People unto Himself, as He promised you on oath, if you will keep the Laws of Yahweh your Father, and walk in all His ways.
10 Then all the people on the earth will see that you are called by the Name of Yahweh, and they will fear you.

I Kepha 2:9—
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that you would show forth the praises of Him Who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

Yahyl 2:32—
And whoever will call with the Name of Yahweh will be delivered; for in Mount Zion in Yerusalem there will be deliverance, as Yahweh has said, among the remnant who has escaped of those whom Yahweh calls.

Acts 2:21—
And it will come to pass that whoever calls on the Name of Yahweh will be delivered.

Romans 10:13—
For Whoever calls with the Name of Yahweh will be saved.

In anyway Muslims are wasting their time God only chose only the Jews as His chosen people so muslims worshiping to Allah is waste of time your god Allah and his prophet mission was only and still is by the help of the muslims is to wipe the Jews of the face of the so much for same God mentality. 




Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 08 December 2019 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15)...

Another 'Copy & Paste' from Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

But thank you for quoting it, because in you eagerness to find faults in our Qur'an... you are exposing your own Bible. How?...:

Moses PBUH asked God an extremely important question (Exodus 3:13), i.e. 'What is your name?', because he had to go back and tell the people/children of Israel... to which, (according to your bible), God does not give him a 'straight' answer... God just says: "I Am Who I Am", "This is my name forever"... it does not make sense!... Is this what Moses supposed to go back and tell his people??... this is another insult to God!!

The Qur'an, on the other hand, relates this very incident... where God gives a more logical answer... The true answer (I've put 3 translations):

Qur'an [20:14]

Chapter (20) sūrat ṭā hā

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=20&verse=14#%2820:14:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Yusuf Ali: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

Arberry: Verily I am God; there is no god but I; therefore serve Me, and perform the prayer of My remembrance.


Another thing:

According to Christianity.com ( https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html ):

Paragraph 1: ...Jesus Christ. As the Son of God he has existed from eternity past...

Paragraph 2: ...from all eternity the Son has been enjoying the love and glory that he shares with God the Father. Shortly before his death Jesus prays...

Paragraph 3: ...the Bible identifies God the Son as the creator of all things...

Paragraph 4: ...before his incarnation the Son of God was sustaining the universe...

Paragraph 6: (The bible on Jesus)...does show him as the creator and sustainer of the universe who was receiving angelic worship...

If all this is true, then why would God (the Father) withhold such vitally important information from Moses in the above incident??... Our Christian brothers (and sisters) must find this very 'confusing' Confused

And... How is it that the 'Creator of all things' and the 'sustainer of the Universe' be chased and caught by the men that he created, then get tortured, crucified and killed (according to your own belief)???

Find out what God (in the Qur'an) Tells us about anyone who holds such confusing/insulting beliefs... how they will have to answer for them very strictly! (on Judgement Day)





Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 13 December 2019 at 7:37am
Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15)...

Another 'Copy & Paste' from Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

But thank you for quoting it, because in you eagerness to find faults in our Qur'an... you are exposing your own Bible. How?...:

Moses PBUH asked God an extremely important question (Exodus 3:13), i.e. 'What is your name?', because he had to go back and tell the people/children of Israel... to which, (according to your bible), God does not give him a 'straight' answer... God just says: "I Am Who I Am", "This is my name forever"... it does not make sense!... Is this what Moses supposed to go back and tell his people??... this is another insult to God!!

The Qur'an, on the other hand, relates this very incident... where God gives a more logical answer... The true answer (I've put 3 translations):

Qur'an [20:14]

Chapter (20) sūrat ṭā hā

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=20&verse=14#%2820:14:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Yusuf Ali: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

Arberry: Verily I am God; there is no god but I; therefore serve Me, and perform the prayer of My remembrance.


Another thing:

According to Christianity.com ( https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html ):

Paragraph 1: ...Jesus Christ. As the Son of God he has existed from eternity past...

Paragraph 2: ...from all eternity the Son has been enjoying the love and glory that he shares with God the Father. Shortly before his death Jesus prays...

Paragraph 3: ...the Bible identifies God the Son as the creator of all things...

Paragraph 4: ...before his incarnation the Son of God was sustaining the universe...

Paragraph 6: (The bible on Jesus)...does show him as the creator and sustainer of the universe who was receiving angelic worship...

If all this is true, then why would God (the Father) withhold such vitally important information from Moses in the above incident??... Our Christian brothers (and sisters) must find this very 'confusing' Confused

And... How is it that the 'Creator of all things' and the 'sustainer of the Universe' be chased and caught by the men that he created, then get tortured, crucified and killed (according to your own belief)???

Find out what God (in the Qur'an) Tells us about anyone who holds such confusing/insulting beliefs... how they will have to answer for them very strictly! (on Judgement Day)



I never was on Billy Graham's site was there something that he said that upset you?
I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false so called prophet they insult themself by all the silly things that is writen in the Quran and hadiths it is so so silly that some Imam must write Tafsir so that muslims can understand what was written in the Quran.

So what is issue of God having a Son do you have a Son so you are allowed to have Son or a daughter. Allah had three daughters why don't you investigate your own silly book.

If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey with female torso from Mecca all the way up to Jerusalem with the speed just to ascend to heaven to get and so called open heart surgery by means of some angel was very big lie that I can tell you.

Washing of the Prophet's heart

Q 94:1 Did we not open your chest? 2 and remove your burden from you 3 which injured your back?

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Angels never perform open sugeries on humans they perform miracles

No Muslim can deny the importance of Mohammed's night journey in Islam, because this flight determined the Islamic rituals of praying five times a day, and performing ablution - or washing before prayer. In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day.

For example some claimed it was one of these mythical flying animals that  enabled Abraham who lived in Hebron, to pay visits to his son Ishmael in Mecca, a 1200 kilometers away. Some of Islam's "historians" claim it was a baraq that enabled Ishmael to attend his father Abraham's funeral in Hebron. Are we beginning to get the picture? Any time the thousand kilometers between Mecca and Israel demonstrates the conspicuous geographical impossibility, of any suggestion that Abraham or Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD, simply break out the flying donkey-mule!

If you can believe this then you believe any nonsense.



Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 18 December 2019 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15)...

Another 'Copy & Paste' from Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

But thank you for quoting it, because in you eagerness to find faults in our Qur'an... you are exposing your own Bible. How?...:

Moses PBUH asked God an extremely important question (Exodus 3:13), i.e. 'What is your name?', because he had to go back and tell the people/children of Israel... to which, (according to your bible), God does not give him a 'straight' answer... God just says: "I Am Who I Am", "This is my name forever"... it does not make sense!... Is this what Moses supposed to go back and tell his people??... this is another insult to God!!

The Qur'an, on the other hand, relates this very incident... where God gives a more logical answer... The true answer (I've put 3 translations):

Qur'an [20:14]

Chapter (20) sūrat ṭā hā

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=20&verse=14#%2820:14:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Yusuf Ali: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

Arberry: Verily I am God; there is no god but I; therefore serve Me, and perform the prayer of My remembrance.


Another thing:

According to Christianity.com ( https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html ):

Paragraph 1: ...Jesus Christ. As the Son of God he has existed from eternity past...

Paragraph 2: ...from all eternity the Son has been enjoying the love and glory that he shares with God the Father. Shortly before his death Jesus prays...

Paragraph 3: ...the Bible identifies God the Son as the creator of all things...

Paragraph 4: ...before his incarnation the Son of God was sustaining the universe...

Paragraph 6: (The bible on Jesus)...does show him as the creator and sustainer of the universe who was receiving angelic worship...

If all this is true, then why would God (the Father) withhold such vitally important information from Moses in the above incident??... Our Christian brothers (and sisters) must find this very 'confusing' Confused

And... How is it that the 'Creator of all things' and the 'sustainer of the Universe' be chased and caught by the men that he created, then get tortured, crucified and killed (according to your own belief)???

Find out what God (in the Qur'an) Tells us about anyone who holds such confusing/insulting beliefs... how they will have to answer for them very strictly! (on Judgement Day)



I never was on Billy Graham's site was there something that he said that upset you?
I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false so called prophet they insult themself by all the silly things that is writen in the Quran and hadiths it is so so silly that some Imam must write Tafsir so that muslims can understand what was written in the Quran.

So what is issue of God having a Son do you have a Son so you are allowed to have Son or a daughter. Allah had three daughters why don't you investigate your own silly book.

If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey with female torso from Mecca all the way up to Jerusalem with the speed just to ascend to heaven to get and so called open heart surgery by means of some angel was very big lie that I can tell you.

Washing of the Prophet's heart

Q 94:1 Did we not open your chest? 2 and remove your burden from you 3 which injured your back?

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Angels never perform open sugeries on humans they perform miracles

No Muslim can deny the importance of Mohammed's night journey in Islam, because this flight determined the Islamic rituals of praying five times a day, and performing ablution - or washing before prayer. In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day.

For example some claimed it was one of these mythical flying animals that  enabled Abraham who lived in Hebron, to pay visits to his son Ishmael in Mecca, a 1200 kilometers away. Some of Islam's "historians" claim it was a baraq that enabled Ishmael to attend his father Abraham's funeral in Hebron. Are we beginning to get the picture? Any time the thousand kilometers between Mecca and Israel demonstrates the conspicuous geographical impossibility, of any suggestion that Abraham or Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD, simply break out the flying donkey-mule!

If you can believe this then you believe any nonsense.

You said:
"I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false"

Answer:
While in your writing underneath you said:
"If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey"

Answer:
In psychology, this is a high-level forgetful case for saying something, but in a short time he didn't feel he had said something. So, no wonder if Tim the plumber said that you are arrogant.

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

You said:
"In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day."

Answer:
Yes, all Muslims are ordered to do salah as all the Prophets did including Jesus. And I can prove it from the Gospel if needed.





Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 23 December 2019 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15)...

Another 'Copy & Paste' from Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

But thank you for quoting it, because in you eagerness to find faults in our Qur'an... you are exposing your own Bible. How?...:

Moses PBUH asked God an extremely important question (Exodus 3:13), i.e. 'What is your name?', because he had to go back and tell the people/children of Israel... to which, (according to your bible), God does not give him a 'straight' answer... God just says: "I Am Who I Am", "This is my name forever"... it does not make sense!... Is this what Moses supposed to go back and tell his people??... this is another insult to God!!

The Qur'an, on the other hand, relates this very incident... where God gives a more logical answer... The true answer (I've put 3 translations):

Qur'an [20:14]

Chapter (20) sūrat ṭā hā

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=20&verse=14#%2820:14:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Yusuf Ali: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

Arberry: Verily I am God; there is no god but I; therefore serve Me, and perform the prayer of My remembrance.


Another thing:

According to Christianity.com ( https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html ):

Paragraph 1: ...Jesus Christ. As the Son of God he has existed from eternity past...

Paragraph 2: ...from all eternity the Son has been enjoying the love and glory that he shares with God the Father. Shortly before his death Jesus prays...

Paragraph 3: ...the Bible identifies God the Son as the creator of all things...

Paragraph 4: ...before his incarnation the Son of God was sustaining the universe...

Paragraph 6: (The bible on Jesus)...does show him as the creator and sustainer of the universe who was receiving angelic worship...

If all this is true, then why would God (the Father) withhold such vitally important information from Moses in the above incident??... Our Christian brothers (and sisters) must find this very 'confusing' Confused

And... How is it that the 'Creator of all things' and the 'sustainer of the Universe' be chased and caught by the men that he created, then get tortured, crucified and killed (according to your own belief)???

Find out what God (in the Qur'an) Tells us about anyone who holds such confusing/insulting beliefs... how they will have to answer for them very strictly! (on Judgement Day)



I never was on Billy Graham's site was there something that he said that upset you?
I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false so called prophet they insult themself by all the silly things that is writen in the Quran and hadiths it is so so silly that some Imam must write Tafsir so that muslims can understand what was written in the Quran.

So what is issue of God having a Son do you have a Son so you are allowed to have Son or a daughter. Allah had three daughters why don't you investigate your own silly book.

If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey with female torso from Mecca all the way up to Jerusalem with the speed just to ascend to heaven to get and so called open heart surgery by means of some angel was very big lie that I can tell you.

Washing of the Prophet's heart

Q 94:1 Did we not open your chest? 2 and remove your burden from you 3 which injured your back?

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Angels never perform open sugeries on humans they perform miracles

No Muslim can deny the importance of Mohammed's night journey in Islam, because this flight determined the Islamic rituals of praying five times a day, and performing ablution - or washing before prayer. In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day.

For example some claimed it was one of these mythical flying animals that  enabled Abraham who lived in Hebron, to pay visits to his son Ishmael in Mecca, a 1200 kilometers away. Some of Islam's "historians" claim it was a baraq that enabled Ishmael to attend his father Abraham's funeral in Hebron. Are we beginning to get the picture? Any time the thousand kilometers between Mecca and Israel demonstrates the conspicuous geographical impossibility, of any suggestion that Abraham or Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD, simply break out the flying donkey-mule!

If you can believe this then you believe any nonsense.

You said:
"I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false"

Answer:
While in your writing underneath you said:
"If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey"

Answer:
In psychology, this is a high-level forgetful case for saying something, but in a short time he didn't feel he had said something. So, no wonder if Tim the plumber said that you are arrogant.

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

You said:
"In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day."

Answer:
Yes, all Muslims are ordered to do salah as all the Prophets did including Jesus. And I can prove it from the Gospel if needed.




Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.

A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.

The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.

It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal."




Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 23 December 2019 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

...Muhammad had made the muslims a offer...

This is way off subject. The subject in the title is Prophet Ibraaheem PBUH and his religion.

Allaah sent His Prophet Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) and ordained among his offspring Prophethood and the Book (al-‘Ankaboot 29:27). 

“And mention in the Book (the Qur’aan) Ibraaheem (Abraham). Verily, he was a man of truth, a Prophet [Maryam 19:41 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Allaah guided Ibraaheem and honoured him with virtues and praiseworthy characteristics: 

“Verily, Ibraaheem (Abraham) was an Ummah (a leader having all the good righteous qualities), or a nation, obedient to Allaah, Haneef (i.e. to worship none but Allaah), and he was not one of those who were Al-Mushrikoon (polytheists, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah, and those who joined partners with Allaah).

(He was) thankful for His (Allaah’s) Favours. He (Allaah) chose him (as an intimate friend) and guided him to a Straight Path (Islamic Monotheism — neither Judaism nor Christianity).

And We gave him good in this world, and in the Hereafter he shall be of the righteous”[al-Nahl 16:120-122 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) was the father of the Prophets; no Prophet was sent after him but he was from among his descendents. He had two sons whom Allaah chose to be Prophets. They were Ismaa’eel the grandfather of the Arabs, from among whose descendents Allaah sent the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and Ishaaq whom Allaah blessed with a Prophet called Ya’qoob, who was also known as Israa’eel, after whom Bani Israa’eel (the Children of Israel) and their Prophets were called. 

The Qur’aan refers to the fact that Ibraaheem was the father of the Prophets, when it says concerning Ibraaheem (interpretation of the meaning): 

“And We bestowed upon him Ishaaq (Isaac) and Ya‘qoob (Jacob), each of them We guided, and before him, We guided Nooh (Noah), and among his progeny Dawood (David), Sulaymaan (Solomon), Ayyoob (Job), Yoosuf (Joseph), Moosa (Moses), and Haaroon (Aaron). Thus do We reward Al-Muhsinoon (the good-doers).

And Zakariyya (Zachariya), and Yahya (John) and ‘Eesa (Jesus) and Ilyaas (Elias), each one of them was of the righteous.

And Isma‘eel (Ishmael) and Al-Yasaa‘ (Elisha), and Yoonus (Jonah) and Loot (Lot), and each one of them We preferred above the ‘Aalameen [mankind and jinn (of their times)]”[al-An’aam 6:84-86] 

Ibraaheem called his people in Mesopotamia to worship Allaah alone and to stop worshipping the idols which could neither bring benefit nor cause harm. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“And (remember) Ibraaheem (Abraham) when he said to his people: ‘Worship Allaah (Alone), and fear Him: that is better for you if you did but know.

You worship besides Allaah only idols, and you only invent falsehood. Verily, those whom you worship besides Allaah have no power to give you provision, so seek your provision from Allaah (Alone), and worship Him (Alone), and be grateful to Him. To Him (Alone) you will be brought back’”[al-‘Ankaboot 29:16-17]  

Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) wanted to free his people from idol-worship and rid them of myths and legends. He asked his people about these idols, as Allaah tells us (interpretation of the meaning): 

“And recite to them the story of Ibraaheem (Abraham).

When he said to his father and his people: ‘What do you worship?’

They said: ‘We worship idols, and to them we are ever devoted.’

He said: ‘Do they hear you, when you call on (them)?

Or do they benefit you or do they harm (you)?’

They said: ‘(Nay) but we found our fathers doing so’”[al-Shu’araa’ 26:69-74] 

Then he explained to them that they should not mindlessly follow others like dumb animals and clarified for them the ultimate reality which is that they should worship Allaah alone, in Whose hand is the dominion of all things: 

“He said: ‘Do you observe that which you have been worshipping

You and your ancient fathers?

Verily, they are enemies to me, save the Lord of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists),

Who has created me, and it is He Who guides me.

And it is He Who feeds me and gives me to drink.

And when I am ill, it is He Who cures me.

And Who will cause me to die, and then will bring me to life (again).

And Who, I hope, will forgive me my faults on the Day of Recompense (the Day of Resurrection)’”[al-Shu’araa’ 26:75-82] 

The father of Ibraaheem was one of the idol-worshippers. He used to carve them and sell them. His father’s disbelief troubled Ibraaheem, so he singled him out for advice and said to him: 

“O my father! Why do you worship that which hears not, sees not and cannot avail you in anything?

O my father! Verily, there has come to me of the knowledge that which came not unto you. So follow me, I will guide you to the Straight Path”[Maryam 19:42-43 – interpretation of the meaning]  

But his father did not respond to him, rather he threatened to stone him and forsake him. He said: 

“Do you reject my gods, O Ibraaheem (Abraham)? If you stop not (this), I will indeed stone you. So get away from me safely (before I punish you)”[Maryam 19:46 – interpretation of the meaning] 

So Ibraaheem had no choice but to leave him, and he said to him:

 “Peace be on you! I will ask forgiveness of my Lord for you. Verily, He is unto me Ever Most Gracious[Maryam 19:47 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Ibraaheem continued to ask for forgiveness for his father and to ask his Lord to guide him, but when it became clear to him that he (his father) was an enemy of Allaah, he disavowed him and stopped asking for forgiveness for him. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“And Ibraaheem’s (Abraham) invoking (of Allaah) for his father’s forgiveness was only because of a promise he [Ibraaheem (Abraham)] had made to him (his father). But when it became clear to him that he (his father) is an enemy of Allaah, he dissociated himself from him. Verily, Ibraaheem was Awwah (one who invokes Allaah with humility, glorifies Him and remembers Him much) and was forbearing[al-Tawbah 9:114] 

When the people of Ibraaheem persisted in worshipping idols, Ibraaheem wanted to prove to them in practical terms that these idols could not cause harm or bring benefit, after his preaching and teaching had no effect on his people: 

“Then he cast a glance at the stars,

And he said: ‘Verily, I am sick (with plague). [He did this trick to remain in their temple of idols to destroy them and not to accompany them to the pagan feast)].’

So they turned away from him, and departed (for fear of the disease).

Then he turned to their aalihah (gods) and said: ‘Will you not eat (of the offering before you)?

What is the matter with you that you speak not?’

Then he turned upon them, striking (them) with (his) right hand”

[al-Saaffaaat :88:93] 

Ibraaheem broke all the idols except the biggest one, which he left so that they could ask it who had done this: 

“So he broke them to pieces, (all) except the biggest of them, that they might turn to it”

[al-Anbiyaa’ 21:58 – interpretation of the meaning] 

When they came back from the festival for which they had gone out, they saw the broken idols and they accused Ibraaheem (of breaking them). He said to them: 

“Nay, this one, the biggest of them (idols) did it. Ask them, if they can speak!”

[al-Anbiyaa’ 21:63 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Because they knew that these idols could not speak – for they were inanimate objects – they said to Ibraaheem: 

“Indeed you [Ibraaheem (Abraham)] know well that these (idols) speak not!”

[al-Anbiyaa’ 21:65 – interpretation of the meaning] 

When they admitted that these idols could do nothing, Ibraaheem said to them:

 “Do you then worship besides Allaah, things that can neither profit you, nor harm you?

Fie upon you, and upon that which you worship besides Allaah! Have you then no sense?”

[al-Anbiyaa’ 21:67 – interpretation of the meaning] 

When they had exhausted all lines of argument, they resorted to the use of force and said: 

“Burn him and help your aalihah (gods), if you will be doing”

[al-Anbiyaa’ 21:68 – interpretation of the meaning] 

They gathered a lot of wood and started a fire which had great sparks and flames, then they threw Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) into that fire. He said, “Hasbi Allaah wa ni’am al-wakeel (Allaah is sufficient for me and He is the best Disposer of affairs).” So Allaah saved him from it and made it coolness and safety for him, and foiled the plot of his enemies: 

“We (Allaah) said: ‘O fire! Be you coolness and safety for Ibraaheem (Abraham)!’

And they wanted to harm him, but We made them the worst losers”

[al-Anbiyaa’ 21:69-70 – interpretation of the meaning]

 After saving Ibraaheem from the fire, Allaah commanded him to leave Mesopotamia and migrate to the Holy Land in Palestine. He married his cousin (the daughter of his paternal uncle) – Saarah – and set out with her and his brother’s son Loot for Syria, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“And We rescued him and Loot (Lot) to the land which We have blessed for the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)[al-Anbiyaa’ 21:71] 

Then great hardship befell the land of Syria, so Ibraaheem moved to Egypt with his wife, then he came back to Palestine, bringing his wife and a slave woman of hers called Haajar. Ibraaheem longed to have children, but his wife was barren and had grown old. When she saw how much her husband longed to have a child, she gave her slave woman, Haajar, to him. So he married her and was blessed with his son Ismaa’eel from her: 

“’My Lord! Grant me (offspring) from the righteous.’

So We gave him the glad tidings of a forbearing boy”

[al-Saaffaat 37:100-101 – interpretation of the meaning] 

After Haajar gave birth to Ismaa’eel, Saarah began to feel jealous, so she asked Ibraaheem to send them away from her. Allaah revealed to Ibraaheem that he should take Haajar and the infant Ismaa’eel and take them to Makkah. So he took them and left Haajar and her child Ismaa’eel in an bleak, isolated place in which there was no water, then he left them and went back to Palestine. Haajar said to him, “For whom are you leaving us in this forsaken valley?” But Ibraaheem went and left her, and she said, “Has Allaah commanded you to do this?” He said, “Yes.” She said, “Then Allaah will not cause us to be lost.” 

Ibraaheem submitted to the command of his Lord and patiently bore the separation from his wife and child. Then he turned towards where they were at the Sacred House and prayed for them in the following words (interpretation of the meaning): 

“O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in an uncultivable valley by Your Sacred House (the Ka‘bah at Makkah) in order, O our Lord, that they may perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah). So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allaah) provide them with fruits so that they may give thanks”[Ibraaheem 14:37] 

Haajar stayed in Makkah, eating the food and drinking the water that Ibraaheem had left for her and her son. When that ran out, she and her son became thirsty. She looked for water, and climbed the hill of al-Safaa but she did not see anything. Then she climbed the hill of al-Marwah but she did not see anything. She did that seven times, then she turned towards Ismaa’eel and saw water gushing from beneath his feet. She rejoiced and drank some, and gave some to her son to drink. Then a tribe – Jurham – came to Haajar and asked her permission to settle by the water. She gave them permission and they settled beside her. When Ismaa’eel grew up, he married one of their women and learned Arabic from them. 

During this period, Ibraaheem used to visit his son from time to time. On one of these visits, Ibraaheem saw in a dream that Allaah was commanding him to sacrifice his son Ismaa’eel. The dreams of the Prophets are true, so Ibraaheem resolved to obey the command of Allaah, even though he was old and Ismaa’eel was his only son. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“So We gave him the glad tidings of a forbearing boy.

And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him, he said: ‘O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you (offering you in sacrifice to Allaah). So look what you think!’ He said: ‘O my father! Do that which you are commanded, In sha’ Allaah (if Allaah wills), you shall find me of As-Saabiroon (the patient).’

Then, when they had both submitted themselves (to the Will of Allaah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (or on the side of his forehead for slaughtering);

We called out to him: ‘O Ibraaheem!

You have fulfilled the dream!’ Verily, thus do We reward the Muhsinoon (good-doers).

Verily, that indeed was a manifest trial.

And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice (i.e. a ram)”

[al-Saffaat 37:101-107] 

Then Allaah gave him the glad tidings of another son, who was Ishaaq, and then Ibraaheem returned to Palestine: 

“And We gave him the glad tidings of Ishaaq (Isaac) a Prophet from the righteous[al-Saaffaat 37:112 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Ishaaq was born to him from his wife Saarah: 

“And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed [either, because the messengers did not eat their food or for being glad for the destruction of the people of Loot (Lot)]. But We gave her glad tidings of Ishaaq (Isaac), and after Ishaaq, of Ya‘qoob (Jacob)”

[Hood 11:71 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Then Ibraaheem stayed in Palestine for a while, then he returned to Makkah for an important reason. Allaah had commanded him to build in Makkah the first House to be built for the worship of Allaah. So Ibraaheem undertook this task of construction, and his son Ismaa’eel was lifting up the stones to him. When the walls grew higher, Ibraaheem stood on a rock, and this is the Station of Ibraaheem (Maqaam Ibraaheem) which is to be found in the vicinity of the Ka’bah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):  

“And (remember) when Ibraaheem (Abraham) and (his son) Ismaaee‘eel (Ishmael) were raising the foundations of the House (the Ka‘bah at Makkah), (saying), ‘Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knower’”

[al-Baqarah 2:127] 

Allaah commanded Ibraaheem and Ismaa’eel to cleanse the House of idols and other impurities so that it would be pure for those who would circumambulate it and stand and bow and prostrate (in prayer). When Ibraaheem built the House, Allaah commanded him to call mankind to perform the Hajj, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“And proclaim to mankind the Hajj (pilgrimage). They will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, they will come from every deep and distant (wide) mountain highway (to perform Hajj)”

[al-Hajj 22:27] 

Then Ibraaheem offered this great supplication for Makkah and for those who live in it: 

“And (remember) when Ibraaheem (Abraham) said, ‘My Lord, make this city (Makkah) a place of security and provide its people with fruits, such of them as believe in Allaah and the Last Day.’ He (Allaah) answered: ‘As for him who disbelieves, I shall leave him in contentment for a while, then I shall compel him to the torment of the Fire, and worst indeed is that destination!’”

[al-Baqarah 2:126 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Then he prayed for himself and his descendents, saying: 

“Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.

Our Lord! And make us submissive unto You and of our offspring a nation submissive unto You, and show us our Manaasik (all the ceremonies of pilgrimage — Hajj and ‘Umrah), and accept our repentance. Truly, You are the One Who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful”[al-Baqarah 2:127-128 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Then he prayed for the people of the sanctuary, that Allaah would send to them a Messenger from amongst them, who would call them to worship Allaah Alone. He said: 

“Our Lord! Send amongst them a Messenger of their own, who shall recite unto them Your Verses and instruct them in the Book (this Qur’aan) and Al-Hikmah (full knowledge of the Islamic laws and jurisprudence or wisdom or Prophethood), and purify them. Verily, You are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise”

[al-Baqarah 1:129 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Allaah responded to the prayer of His Prophet Ibraaheem. He made Makkah a place of security, He blessed its people with fruits and sent to them a Messenger from amongst themselves, who was the Seal of the Prophets and Messengers, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). All praise and thanks be to Allaah. 

After Ibraaheem, Prophethood remained with the Children of Israel for a long time, until Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) from among the descendents of Ismaa’eel as a Messenger to all of mankind, and commanded him as He said (interpretation of the meaning): 

“Say (O Muhammad): ‘O mankind! Verily, I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allaah…’”[al-A’raaf 7:158] 

Allaah commanded Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to follow the religion of Ibraaheem, as He said (interpretation of the meaning): 

“Then, We have sent the Revelation to you (O Muhammad saying): ‘Follow the religion of Ibraaheem (Abraham) Haneef (Islamic Monotheism — to worship none but Allaah) and he was not of the Mushrikoon (polytheists, idolaters, disbelievers)”[al-Nahl 16:123] 

Ibraaheem’s advice to his children was to adhere to the religion of Islam and follow its commands until they died. Allaah said (interpretation of the meaning): 

“And this (submission to Allaah, Islam) was enjoined by Ibraaheem (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya‘qoob (Jacob) (saying), ‘O my sons! Allaah has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam (as Muslims — Islamic Monotheism)’” [al-Baqarah 2:132] 

O Allaah, send blessings upon Ibraaheem and upon the family of Ibraaheem, for You are Praiseworthy, Most Glorious. 

Other Prophets who were alive at the time of Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) were Loot, Ismaa’eel, Ishaaq, and Ya’qoob. Then came Yoosuf, then Shu’ayb, then Ayyoob, then Dhu’l-Kifl. Then Allaah sent Moosa and Haaroon (peace be upon them and may the best of blessings and peace be upon all the Prophets).






Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 24 December 2019 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15)...

Another 'Copy & Paste' from Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

But thank you for quoting it, because in you eagerness to find faults in our Qur'an... you are exposing your own Bible. How?...:

Moses PBUH asked God an extremely important question (Exodus 3:13), i.e. 'What is your name?', because he had to go back and tell the people/children of Israel... to which, (according to your bible), God does not give him a 'straight' answer... God just says: "I Am Who I Am", "This is my name forever"... it does not make sense!... Is this what Moses supposed to go back and tell his people??... this is another insult to God!!

The Qur'an, on the other hand, relates this very incident... where God gives a more logical answer... The true answer (I've put 3 translations):

Qur'an [20:14]

Chapter (20) sūrat ṭā hā

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=20&verse=14#%2820:14:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Yusuf Ali: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

Arberry: Verily I am God; there is no god but I; therefore serve Me, and perform the prayer of My remembrance.


Another thing:

According to Christianity.com ( https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html ):

Paragraph 1: ...Jesus Christ. As the Son of God he has existed from eternity past...

Paragraph 2: ...from all eternity the Son has been enjoying the love and glory that he shares with God the Father. Shortly before his death Jesus prays...

Paragraph 3: ...the Bible identifies God the Son as the creator of all things...

Paragraph 4: ...before his incarnation the Son of God was sustaining the universe...

Paragraph 6: (The bible on Jesus)...does show him as the creator and sustainer of the universe who was receiving angelic worship...

If all this is true, then why would God (the Father) withhold such vitally important information from Moses in the above incident??... Our Christian brothers (and sisters) must find this very 'confusing' Confused

And... How is it that the 'Creator of all things' and the 'sustainer of the Universe' be chased and caught by the men that he created, then get tortured, crucified and killed (according to your own belief)???

Find out what God (in the Qur'an) Tells us about anyone who holds such confusing/insulting beliefs... how they will have to answer for them very strictly! (on Judgement Day)



I never was on Billy Graham's site was there something that he said that upset you?
I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false so called prophet they insult themself by all the silly things that is writen in the Quran and hadiths it is so so silly that some Imam must write Tafsir so that muslims can understand what was written in the Quran.

So what is issue of God having a Son do you have a Son so you are allowed to have Son or a daughter. Allah had three daughters why don't you investigate your own silly book.

If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey with female torso from Mecca all the way up to Jerusalem with the speed just to ascend to heaven to get and so called open heart surgery by means of some angel was very big lie that I can tell you.

Washing of the Prophet's heart

Q 94:1 Did we not open your chest? 2 and remove your burden from you 3 which injured your back?

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Angels never perform open sugeries on humans they perform miracles

No Muslim can deny the importance of Mohammed's night journey in Islam, because this flight determined the Islamic rituals of praying five times a day, and performing ablution - or washing before prayer. In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day.

For example some claimed it was one of these mythical flying animals that  enabled Abraham who lived in Hebron, to pay visits to his son Ishmael in Mecca, a 1200 kilometers away. Some of Islam's "historians" claim it was a baraq that enabled Ishmael to attend his father Abraham's funeral in Hebron. Are we beginning to get the picture? Any time the thousand kilometers between Mecca and Israel demonstrates the conspicuous geographical impossibility, of any suggestion that Abraham or Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD, simply break out the flying donkey-mule!

If you can believe this then you believe any nonsense.

You said:
"I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false"

Answer:
While in your writing underneath you said:
"If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey"

Answer:
In psychology, this is a high-level forgetful case for saying something, but in a short time he didn't feel he had said something. So, no wonder if Tim the plumber said that you are arrogant.

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

You said:
"In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day."

Answer:
Yes, all Muslims are ordered to do salah as all the Prophets did including Jesus. And I can prove it from the Gospel if needed.




Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.

A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.

The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.

It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal."


(Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.)

(A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.)

Answer:
How can Muslims refuse him ?, his teachings make sense and its truth can be proven.

(The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.)

(It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal.")

Answer:
Whatever it is, the definite reward for those who believe in Allah will get more in heaven.




Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 17 February 2020 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15)...

Another 'Copy & Paste' from Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

But thank you for quoting it, because in you eagerness to find faults in our Qur'an... you are exposing your own Bible. How?...:

Moses PBUH asked God an extremely important question (Exodus 3:13), i.e. 'What is your name?', because he had to go back and tell the people/children of Israel... to which, (according to your bible), God does not give him a 'straight' answer... God just says: "I Am Who I Am", "This is my name forever"... it does not make sense!... Is this what Moses supposed to go back and tell his people??... this is another insult to God!!

The Qur'an, on the other hand, relates this very incident... where God gives a more logical answer... The true answer (I've put 3 translations):

Qur'an [20:14]

Chapter (20) sūrat ṭā hā

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=20&verse=14#%2820:14:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Yusuf Ali: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

Arberry: Verily I am God; there is no god but I; therefore serve Me, and perform the prayer of My remembrance.


Another thing:

According to Christianity.com ( https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html ):

Paragraph 1: ...Jesus Christ. As the Son of God he has existed from eternity past...

Paragraph 2: ...from all eternity the Son has been enjoying the love and glory that he shares with God the Father. Shortly before his death Jesus prays...

Paragraph 3: ...the Bible identifies God the Son as the creator of all things...

Paragraph 4: ...before his incarnation the Son of God was sustaining the universe...

Paragraph 6: (The bible on Jesus)...does show him as the creator and sustainer of the universe who was receiving angelic worship...

If all this is true, then why would God (the Father) withhold such vitally important information from Moses in the above incident??... Our Christian brothers (and sisters) must find this very 'confusing' Confused

And... How is it that the 'Creator of all things' and the 'sustainer of the Universe' be chased and caught by the men that he created, then get tortured, crucified and killed (according to your own belief)???

Find out what God (in the Qur'an) Tells us about anyone who holds such confusing/insulting beliefs... how they will have to answer for them very strictly! (on Judgement Day)



I never was on Billy Graham's site was there something that he said that upset you?
I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false so called prophet they insult themself by all the silly things that is writen in the Quran and hadiths it is so so silly that some Imam must write Tafsir so that muslims can understand what was written in the Quran.

So what is issue of God having a Son do you have a Son so you are allowed to have Son or a daughter. Allah had three daughters why don't you investigate your own silly book.

If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey with female torso from Mecca all the way up to Jerusalem with the speed just to ascend to heaven to get and so called open heart surgery by means of some angel was very big lie that I can tell you.

Washing of the Prophet's heart

Q 94:1 Did we not open your chest? 2 and remove your burden from you 3 which injured your back?

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Angels never perform open sugeries on humans they perform miracles

No Muslim can deny the importance of Mohammed's night journey in Islam, because this flight determined the Islamic rituals of praying five times a day, and performing ablution - or washing before prayer. In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day.

For example some claimed it was one of these mythical flying animals that  enabled Abraham who lived in Hebron, to pay visits to his son Ishmael in Mecca, a 1200 kilometers away. Some of Islam's "historians" claim it was a baraq that enabled Ishmael to attend his father Abraham's funeral in Hebron. Are we beginning to get the picture? Any time the thousand kilometers between Mecca and Israel demonstrates the conspicuous geographical impossibility, of any suggestion that Abraham or Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD, simply break out the flying donkey-mule!

If you can believe this then you believe any nonsense.

You said:
"I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false"

Answer:
While in your writing underneath you said:
"If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey"

Answer:
In psychology, this is a high-level forgetful case for saying something, but in a short time he didn't feel he had said something. So, no wonder if Tim the plumber said that you are arrogant.

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

You said:
"In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day."

Answer:
Yes, all Muslims are ordered to do salah as all the Prophets did including Jesus. And I can prove it from the Gospel if needed.




Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.

A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.

The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.

It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal."


(Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.)

(A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.)

Answer:
How can Muslims refuse him ?, his teachings make sense and its truth can be proven.

(The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.)

(It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal.")

Answer:
Whatever it is, the definite reward for those who believe in Allah will get more in heaven.


So you admit what Muhammad said about his Paradise is the reward for a good Muslim man thats why muslims are so eager to die as martyrs for Muhammad so that they may enter Muhammad's paradise an offer that no one can resists.


Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 21 February 2020 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15)...

Another 'Copy & Paste' from Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

But thank you for quoting it, because in you eagerness to find faults in our Qur'an... you are exposing your own Bible. How?...:

Moses PBUH asked God an extremely important question (Exodus 3:13), i.e. 'What is your name?', because he had to go back and tell the people/children of Israel... to which, (according to your bible), God does not give him a 'straight' answer... God just says: "I Am Who I Am", "This is my name forever"... it does not make sense!... Is this what Moses supposed to go back and tell his people??... this is another insult to God!!

The Qur'an, on the other hand, relates this very incident... where God gives a more logical answer... The true answer (I've put 3 translations):

Qur'an [20:14]

Chapter (20) sūrat ṭā hā

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=20&verse=14#%2820:14:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Yusuf Ali: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

Arberry: Verily I am God; there is no god but I; therefore serve Me, and perform the prayer of My remembrance.


Another thing:

According to Christianity.com ( https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html ):

Paragraph 1: ...Jesus Christ. As the Son of God he has existed from eternity past...

Paragraph 2: ...from all eternity the Son has been enjoying the love and glory that he shares with God the Father. Shortly before his death Jesus prays...

Paragraph 3: ...the Bible identifies God the Son as the creator of all things...

Paragraph 4: ...before his incarnation the Son of God was sustaining the universe...

Paragraph 6: (The bible on Jesus)...does show him as the creator and sustainer of the universe who was receiving angelic worship...

If all this is true, then why would God (the Father) withhold such vitally important information from Moses in the above incident??... Our Christian brothers (and sisters) must find this very 'confusing' Confused

And... How is it that the 'Creator of all things' and the 'sustainer of the Universe' be chased and caught by the men that he created, then get tortured, crucified and killed (according to your own belief)???

Find out what God (in the Qur'an) Tells us about anyone who holds such confusing/insulting beliefs... how they will have to answer for them very strictly! (on Judgement Day)



I never was on Billy Graham's site was there something that he said that upset you?
I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false so called prophet they insult themself by all the silly things that is writen in the Quran and hadiths it is so so silly that some Imam must write Tafsir so that muslims can understand what was written in the Quran.

So what is issue of God having a Son do you have a Son so you are allowed to have Son or a daughter. Allah had three daughters why don't you investigate your own silly book.

If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey with female torso from Mecca all the way up to Jerusalem with the speed just to ascend to heaven to get and so called open heart surgery by means of some angel was very big lie that I can tell you.

Washing of the Prophet's heart

Q 94:1 Did we not open your chest? 2 and remove your burden from you 3 which injured your back?

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Angels never perform open sugeries on humans they perform miracles

No Muslim can deny the importance of Mohammed's night journey in Islam, because this flight determined the Islamic rituals of praying five times a day, and performing ablution - or washing before prayer. In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day.

For example some claimed it was one of these mythical flying animals that  enabled Abraham who lived in Hebron, to pay visits to his son Ishmael in Mecca, a 1200 kilometers away. Some of Islam's "historians" claim it was a baraq that enabled Ishmael to attend his father Abraham's funeral in Hebron. Are we beginning to get the picture? Any time the thousand kilometers between Mecca and Israel demonstrates the conspicuous geographical impossibility, of any suggestion that Abraham or Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD, simply break out the flying donkey-mule!

If you can believe this then you believe any nonsense.

You said:
"I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false"

Answer:
While in your writing underneath you said:
"If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey"

Answer:
In psychology, this is a high-level forgetful case for saying something, but in a short time he didn't feel he had said something. So, no wonder if Tim the plumber said that you are arrogant.

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

You said:
"In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day."

Answer:
Yes, all Muslims are ordered to do salah as all the Prophets did including Jesus. And I can prove it from the Gospel if needed.




Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.

A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.

The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.

It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal."


(Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.)

(A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.)

Answer:
How can Muslims refuse him ?, his teachings make sense and its truth can be proven.

(The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.)

(It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal.")

Answer:
Whatever it is, the definite reward for those who believe in Allah will get more in heaven.


So you admit what Muhammad said about his Paradise is the reward for a good Muslim man thats why muslims are so eager to die as martyrs for Muhammad so that they may enter Muhammad's paradise an offer that no one can resists.
Muslims are not eager to die as martyrs for Muhammad but to follow his teaching (the Qoran and As Sunnah)

The word "Islam" comes from "Aslama" (in Arabic) means Surrender to one God, and from "Salima" means getting salvation from Allah.

From the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who invited their people to surrender only to one God (Tawhid)
Thus, whoever surrenders and worships only to one God who created the universe and humans, carries out His commands, they are called Muslims (in Arabic).

Mark 12: 29,30
"The most important one", answered Jesus, is this: o Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."

They will go to heaven.




Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 22 February 2020 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15)...

Another 'Copy & Paste' from Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

But thank you for quoting it, because in you eagerness to find faults in our Qur'an... you are exposing your own Bible. How?...:

Moses PBUH asked God an extremely important question (Exodus 3:13), i.e. 'What is your name?', because he had to go back and tell the people/children of Israel... to which, (according to your bible), God does not give him a 'straight' answer... God just says: "I Am Who I Am", "This is my name forever"... it does not make sense!... Is this what Moses supposed to go back and tell his people??... this is another insult to God!!

The Qur'an, on the other hand, relates this very incident... where God gives a more logical answer... The true answer (I've put 3 translations):

Qur'an [20:14]

Chapter (20) sūrat ṭā hā

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=20&verse=14#%2820:14:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Yusuf Ali: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

Arberry: Verily I am God; there is no god but I; therefore serve Me, and perform the prayer of My remembrance.


Another thing:

According to Christianity.com ( https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html ):

Paragraph 1: ...Jesus Christ. As the Son of God he has existed from eternity past...

Paragraph 2: ...from all eternity the Son has been enjoying the love and glory that he shares with God the Father. Shortly before his death Jesus prays...

Paragraph 3: ...the Bible identifies God the Son as the creator of all things...

Paragraph 4: ...before his incarnation the Son of God was sustaining the universe...

Paragraph 6: (The bible on Jesus)...does show him as the creator and sustainer of the universe who was receiving angelic worship...

If all this is true, then why would God (the Father) withhold such vitally important information from Moses in the above incident??... Our Christian brothers (and sisters) must find this very 'confusing' Confused

And... How is it that the 'Creator of all things' and the 'sustainer of the Universe' be chased and caught by the men that he created, then get tortured, crucified and killed (according to your own belief)???

Find out what God (in the Qur'an) Tells us about anyone who holds such confusing/insulting beliefs... how they will have to answer for them very strictly! (on Judgement Day)



I never was on Billy Graham's site was there something that he said that upset you?
I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false so called prophet they insult themself by all the silly things that is writen in the Quran and hadiths it is so so silly that some Imam must write Tafsir so that muslims can understand what was written in the Quran.

So what is issue of God having a Son do you have a Son so you are allowed to have Son or a daughter. Allah had three daughters why don't you investigate your own silly book.

If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey with female torso from Mecca all the way up to Jerusalem with the speed just to ascend to heaven to get and so called open heart surgery by means of some angel was very big lie that I can tell you.

Washing of the Prophet's heart

Q 94:1 Did we not open your chest? 2 and remove your burden from you 3 which injured your back?

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Angels never perform open sugeries on humans they perform miracles

No Muslim can deny the importance of Mohammed's night journey in Islam, because this flight determined the Islamic rituals of praying five times a day, and performing ablution - or washing before prayer. In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day.

For example some claimed it was one of these mythical flying animals that  enabled Abraham who lived in Hebron, to pay visits to his son Ishmael in Mecca, a 1200 kilometers away. Some of Islam's "historians" claim it was a baraq that enabled Ishmael to attend his father Abraham's funeral in Hebron. Are we beginning to get the picture? Any time the thousand kilometers between Mecca and Israel demonstrates the conspicuous geographical impossibility, of any suggestion that Abraham or Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD, simply break out the flying donkey-mule!

If you can believe this then you believe any nonsense.

You said:
"I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false"

Answer:
While in your writing underneath you said:
"If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey"

Answer:
In psychology, this is a high-level forgetful case for saying something, but in a short time he didn't feel he had said something. So, no wonder if Tim the plumber said that you are arrogant.

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

You said:
"In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day."

Answer:
Yes, all Muslims are ordered to do salah as all the Prophets did including Jesus. And I can prove it from the Gospel if needed.




Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.

A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.

The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.

It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal."


(Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.)

(A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.)

Answer:
How can Muslims refuse him ?, his teachings make sense and its truth can be proven.

(The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.)

(It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal.")

Answer:
Whatever it is, the definite reward for those who believe in Allah will get more in heaven.


So you admit what Muhammad said about his Paradise is the reward for a good Muslim man thats why muslims are so eager to die as martyrs for Muhammad so that they may enter Muhammad's paradise an offer that no one can resists.
Muslims are not eager to die as martyrs for Muhammad but to follow his teaching (the Qoran and As Sunnah)

The word "Islam" comes from "Aslama" (in Arabic) means Surrender to one God, and from "Salima" means getting salvation from Allah.

From the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who invited their people to surrender only to one God (Tawhid)
Thus, whoever surrenders and worships only to one God who created the universe and humans, carries out His commands, they are called Muslims (in Arabic).

Mark 12: 29,30
"The most important one", answered Jesus, is this: o Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."

They will go to heaven.


Adam was not prophet and Muhammad was not a prophet of the real God not Muhammad's Allah Muhammad promote himself as a prophet and then to a Apostle of himself of his Allah.

Why do you quote from the bible? like the mormons they also got their fake book of theri false religeon but 100% of quotes is verses from the Bible.

You muslims are only worried about one god there are many other religeons who also believe in only one god so what Muhammad discovered was already old news there CAN OMNLY BE ONE GOD WHY DO YOU FAVOUR ISLAM ABOVE OTHER RELIGEONS O CAUSE ITS FROM ALLAH ACTUALLY IT WAS MUHAMMAD WHO PLAYED THE ROLE OF ALLAH.


Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 25 February 2020 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15)...

Another 'Copy & Paste' from Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

But thank you for quoting it, because in you eagerness to find faults in our Qur'an... you are exposing your own Bible. How?...:

Moses PBUH asked God an extremely important question (Exodus 3:13), i.e. 'What is your name?', because he had to go back and tell the people/children of Israel... to which, (according to your bible), God does not give him a 'straight' answer... God just says: "I Am Who I Am", "This is my name forever"... it does not make sense!... Is this what Moses supposed to go back and tell his people??... this is another insult to God!!

The Qur'an, on the other hand, relates this very incident... where God gives a more logical answer... The true answer (I've put 3 translations):

Qur'an [20:14]

Chapter (20) sūrat ṭā hā

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=20&verse=14#%2820:14:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Yusuf Ali: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

Arberry: Verily I am God; there is no god but I; therefore serve Me, and perform the prayer of My remembrance.


Another thing:

According to Christianity.com ( https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html ):

Paragraph 1: ...Jesus Christ. As the Son of God he has existed from eternity past...

Paragraph 2: ...from all eternity the Son has been enjoying the love and glory that he shares with God the Father. Shortly before his death Jesus prays...

Paragraph 3: ...the Bible identifies God the Son as the creator of all things...

Paragraph 4: ...before his incarnation the Son of God was sustaining the universe...

Paragraph 6: (The bible on Jesus)...does show him as the creator and sustainer of the universe who was receiving angelic worship...

If all this is true, then why would God (the Father) withhold such vitally important information from Moses in the above incident??... Our Christian brothers (and sisters) must find this very 'confusing' Confused

And... How is it that the 'Creator of all things' and the 'sustainer of the Universe' be chased and caught by the men that he created, then get tortured, crucified and killed (according to your own belief)???

Find out what God (in the Qur'an) Tells us about anyone who holds such confusing/insulting beliefs... how they will have to answer for them very strictly! (on Judgement Day)



I never was on Billy Graham's site was there something that he said that upset you?
I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false so called prophet they insult themself by all the silly things that is writen in the Quran and hadiths it is so so silly that some Imam must write Tafsir so that muslims can understand what was written in the Quran.

So what is issue of God having a Son do you have a Son so you are allowed to have Son or a daughter. Allah had three daughters why don't you investigate your own silly book.

If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey with female torso from Mecca all the way up to Jerusalem with the speed just to ascend to heaven to get and so called open heart surgery by means of some angel was very big lie that I can tell you.

Washing of the Prophet's heart

Q 94:1 Did we not open your chest? 2 and remove your burden from you 3 which injured your back?

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Angels never perform open sugeries on humans they perform miracles

No Muslim can deny the importance of Mohammed's night journey in Islam, because this flight determined the Islamic rituals of praying five times a day, and performing ablution - or washing before prayer. In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day.

For example some claimed it was one of these mythical flying animals that  enabled Abraham who lived in Hebron, to pay visits to his son Ishmael in Mecca, a 1200 kilometers away. Some of Islam's "historians" claim it was a baraq that enabled Ishmael to attend his father Abraham's funeral in Hebron. Are we beginning to get the picture? Any time the thousand kilometers between Mecca and Israel demonstrates the conspicuous geographical impossibility, of any suggestion that Abraham or Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD, simply break out the flying donkey-mule!

If you can believe this then you believe any nonsense.

You said:
"I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false"

Answer:
While in your writing underneath you said:
"If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey"

Answer:
In psychology, this is a high-level forgetful case for saying something, but in a short time he didn't feel he had said something. So, no wonder if Tim the plumber said that you are arrogant.

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

You said:
"In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day."

Answer:
Yes, all Muslims are ordered to do salah as all the Prophets did including Jesus. And I can prove it from the Gospel if needed.




Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.

A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.

The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.

It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal."


(Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.)

(A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.)

Answer:
How can Muslims refuse him ?, his teachings make sense and its truth can be proven.

(The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.)

(It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal.")

Answer:
Whatever it is, the definite reward for those who believe in Allah will get more in heaven.


So you admit what Muhammad said about his Paradise is the reward for a good Muslim man thats why muslims are so eager to die as martyrs for Muhammad so that they may enter Muhammad's paradise an offer that no one can resists.
Muslims are not eager to die as martyrs for Muhammad but to follow his teaching (the Qoran and As Sunnah)

The word "Islam" comes from "Aslama" (in Arabic) means Surrender to one God, and from "Salima" means getting salvation from Allah.

From the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who invited their people to surrender only to one God (Tawhid)
Thus, whoever surrenders and worships only to one God who created the universe and humans, carries out His commands, they are called Muslims (in Arabic).

Mark 12: 29,30
"The most important one", answered Jesus, is this: o Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."

They will go to heaven.


Adam was not prophet and Muhammad was not a prophet of the real God not Muhammad's Allah Muhammad promote himself as a prophet and then to a Apostle of himself of his Allah.

Why do you quote from the bible? like the mormons they also got their fake book of theri false religeon but 100% of quotes is verses from the Bible.

You muslims are only worried about one god there are many other religeons who also believe in only one god so what Muhammad discovered was already old news there CAN OMNLY BE ONE GOD WHY DO YOU FAVOUR ISLAM ABOVE OTHER RELIGEONS O CAUSE ITS FROM ALLAH ACTUALLY IT WAS MUHAMMAD WHO PLAYED THE ROLE OF ALLAH.
(Adam was not prophet and Muhammad was not a prophet of the real God not Muhammad's Allah Muhammad promote himself as a prophet and then to a Apostle of himself of his Allah.)

Answer:
That's just your prejudice, can you prove that the Prophet Muhammad promoted himself as a Prophet?

(Why do you quote from the bible? like the mormons they also got their fake book of theri false religeon but 100% of quotes is verses from the Bible.)

Answer:
I just want to prove to you that the Gospel that is now circulating is not original, and I can prove it from the writings in the Gospel. Do I want to prove it again ?

(You muslims are only worried about one god there are many other religeons who also believe in only one god so what Muhammad discovered was already old news there CAN OMNLY BE ONE GOD WHY DO YOU FAVOUR ISLAM ABOVE OTHER RELIGEONS O CAUSE ITS FROM ALLAH ACTUALLY IT WAS MUHAMMAD WHO PLAYED THE ROLE OF ALLAH.)

Answer:
How about this:
Mark 12: 29,30
"The most important one,"answered Jesus,"is this: o Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 28 February 2020 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Does God care what we call Him? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same god?

Moses understood this. When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15)...

Another 'Copy & Paste' from Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

But thank you for quoting it, because in you eagerness to find faults in our Qur'an... you are exposing your own Bible. How?...:

Moses PBUH asked God an extremely important question (Exodus 3:13), i.e. 'What is your name?', because he had to go back and tell the people/children of Israel... to which, (according to your bible), God does not give him a 'straight' answer... God just says: "I Am Who I Am", "This is my name forever"... it does not make sense!... Is this what Moses supposed to go back and tell his people??... this is another insult to God!!

The Qur'an, on the other hand, relates this very incident... where God gives a more logical answer... The true answer (I've put 3 translations):

Qur'an [20:14]

Chapter (20) sūrat ṭā hā

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=20&verse=14#%2820:14:1%29" rel="nofollow">

Sahih International: Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Yusuf Ali: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

Arberry: Verily I am God; there is no god but I; therefore serve Me, and perform the prayer of My remembrance.


Another thing:

According to Christianity.com ( https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.christianity.com/jesus/birth-of-jesus/bethlehem/what-was-jesus-doing-before-he-was-born-in-bethlehem.html ):

Paragraph 1: ...Jesus Christ. As the Son of God he has existed from eternity past...

Paragraph 2: ...from all eternity the Son has been enjoying the love and glory that he shares with God the Father. Shortly before his death Jesus prays...

Paragraph 3: ...the Bible identifies God the Son as the creator of all things...

Paragraph 4: ...before his incarnation the Son of God was sustaining the universe...

Paragraph 6: (The bible on Jesus)...does show him as the creator and sustainer of the universe who was receiving angelic worship...

If all this is true, then why would God (the Father) withhold such vitally important information from Moses in the above incident??... Our Christian brothers (and sisters) must find this very 'confusing' Confused

And... How is it that the 'Creator of all things' and the 'sustainer of the Universe' be chased and caught by the men that he created, then get tortured, crucified and killed (according to your own belief)???

Find out what God (in the Qur'an) Tells us about anyone who holds such confusing/insulting beliefs... how they will have to answer for them very strictly! (on Judgement Day)



I never was on Billy Graham's site was there something that he said that upset you?
I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false so called prophet they insult themself by all the silly things that is writen in the Quran and hadiths it is so so silly that some Imam must write Tafsir so that muslims can understand what was written in the Quran.

So what is issue of God having a Son do you have a Son so you are allowed to have Son or a daughter. Allah had three daughters why don't you investigate your own silly book.

If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey with female torso from Mecca all the way up to Jerusalem with the speed just to ascend to heaven to get and so called open heart surgery by means of some angel was very big lie that I can tell you.

Washing of the Prophet's heart

Q 94:1 Did we not open your chest? 2 and remove your burden from you 3 which injured your back?

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Angels never perform open sugeries on humans they perform miracles

No Muslim can deny the importance of Mohammed's night journey in Islam, because this flight determined the Islamic rituals of praying five times a day, and performing ablution - or washing before prayer. In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day.

For example some claimed it was one of these mythical flying animals that  enabled Abraham who lived in Hebron, to pay visits to his son Ishmael in Mecca, a 1200 kilometers away. Some of Islam's "historians" claim it was a baraq that enabled Ishmael to attend his father Abraham's funeral in Hebron. Are we beginning to get the picture? Any time the thousand kilometers between Mecca and Israel demonstrates the conspicuous geographical impossibility, of any suggestion that Abraham or Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD, simply break out the flying donkey-mule!

If you can believe this then you believe any nonsense.

You said:
"I don't have and I don't need to insult the Quran and your false"

Answer:
While in your writing underneath you said:
"If you believe that your false prophet went on supersonic magic flying donkey"

Answer:
In psychology, this is a high-level forgetful case for saying something, but in a short time he didn't feel he had said something. So, no wonder if Tim the plumber said that you are arrogant.

Anas b. Malik: I saw the mark of the stitches on the Prophet's chest.

Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

You said:
"In other words Mohammed's night journey impacts the lives of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world - five times - each and every day."

Answer:
Yes, all Muslims are ordered to do salah as all the Prophets did including Jesus. And I can prove it from the Gospel if needed.




Answer:
I don't care if he saw it from which point of view, but the Qoran is the Word of Allah which has provided many things for my salvation, especially salvation for the eternal afterlife.

Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.

A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.

The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.

It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal."


(Muhammad had made the muslims a offer that they never could have resisted.)

(A good idea for moral support to go to Muhammad's paradise for salvation.)

Answer:
How can Muslims refuse him ?, his teachings make sense and its truth can be proven.

(The 72 virgins or 72 houri from Persian:  ḥūrī; plural of 'ḥaurāʾ' or'ḥūrīyah';  refers to a celestial being that is an aspect of Heaven or jannah (Arabic: Jannah'; plural: Jannat). This concept is mentioned in Qur'anic text as a reward to believing men after death. According to the Quran, once in jannah, believers are wed to virgins with "full grown", "swelling" or "pears-shaped" breasts. The Quran provides a physical and personal description of the houri and denotes them as awards to believers. Sahih (authentic) hadith detail the amount if houris and what they are for.)

(It is quoted by Ibn Kathir, in his Qur'anic Commentary, the Tafsir ibn Kathir, and they are graphically described by Qur'anic commentator and polymath, Al-Suyuti (died 1505), who, echoing a Sahih hadith[9] from Ibn Majah, wrote that the perpetual virgins will all "have appetizing vaginas", and that the "penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal.")

Answer:
Whatever it is, the definite reward for those who believe in Allah will get more in heaven.


So you admit what Muhammad said about his Paradise is the reward for a good Muslim man thats why muslims are so eager to die as martyrs for Muhammad so that they may enter Muhammad's paradise an offer that no one can resists.
Muslims are not eager to die as martyrs for Muhammad but to follow his teaching (the Qoran and As Sunnah)

The word "Islam" comes from "Aslama" (in Arabic) means Surrender to one God, and from "Salima" means getting salvation from Allah.

From the Prophet Adam to the Prophet Muhammad, they were the messengers of Allah who invited their people to surrender only to one God (Tawhid)
Thus, whoever surrenders and worships only to one God who created the universe and humans, carries out His commands, they are called Muslims (in Arabic).

Mark 12: 29,30
"The most important one", answered Jesus, is this: o Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."

They will go to heaven.


Adam was not prophet and Muhammad was not a prophet of the real God not Muhammad's Allah Muhammad promote himself as a prophet and then to a Apostle of himself of his Allah.

Why do you quote from the bible? like the mormons they also got their fake book of theri false religeon but 100% of quotes is verses from the Bible.

You muslims are only worried about one god there are many other religeons who also believe in only one god so what Muhammad discovered was already old news there CAN OMNLY BE ONE GOD WHY DO YOU FAVOUR ISLAM ABOVE OTHER RELIGEONS O CAUSE ITS FROM ALLAH ACTUALLY IT WAS MUHAMMAD WHO PLAYED THE ROLE OF ALLAH.
(Adam was not prophet and Muhammad was not a prophet of the real God not Muhammad's Allah Muhammad promote himself as a prophet and then to a Apostle of himself of his Allah.)

Answer:
That's just your prejudice, can you prove that the Prophet Muhammad promoted himself as a Prophet?

(Why do you quote from the bible? like the mormons they also got their fake book of theri false religeon but 100% of quotes is verses from the Bible.)

Answer:
I just want to prove to you that the Gospel that is now circulating is not original, and I can prove it from the writings in the Gospel. Do I want to prove it again ?

(You muslims are only worried about one god there are many other religeons who also believe in only one god so what Muhammad discovered was already old news there CAN OMNLY BE ONE GOD WHY DO YOU FAVOUR ISLAM ABOVE OTHER RELIGEONS O CAUSE ITS FROM ALLAH ACTUALLY IT WAS MUHAMMAD WHO PLAYED THE ROLE OF ALLAH.)

Answer:
How about this:
Mark 12: 29,30
"The most important one,"answered Jesus,"is this: o Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."


Answer:
How about this:
Mark 12: 29,30
"The most important one,"answered Jesus,"is this: o Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."

And then Muhammad present to the Arabs another god Allah who had three daughters which was actually an old pagan god which Muhammad upgraded to a almighty god.


Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 29 February 2020 at 4:52pm
The God of the Prophet Muhammad is the same with the God of Jesus and others Prophets/Apostles.


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 08 March 2020 at 3:43am
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

The God of the Prophet Muhammad is the same with the God of Jesus and others Prophets/Apostles.

Now you taking a fat change like your Prophet Muhammad.

Read Exodus 3

But Moses replied, “When I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors sent me to you,’ they will ask me, ‘What is his name?’ So what can I tell them?”

14  "#cen-GNT-1563C"" rel="nofollow - C )" data-cr="#cen-GNT-1563C">God said, “I am who I am. You must tell them: ‘The one who is called I Am has sent me to you.’ 15 Tell the Israelites that I, the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, have sent you to them. This is my name forever; this is what all future generations are to call me. 16 Go and gather the leaders of Israel together and tell them that I, the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, appeared to you. 

Here is you so called prophet's version.

Sura 69 at the back side of the Quran the first so called revelation.

Nowhere did Jibrill said I am jibrill a angel or never had he said Allah send me.


1. Proclaim! [or read!] in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-

2. Created man, out of a [mere] clot of congealed blood:

3. Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-

4. He Who taught [the use of] the pen,-

5. Taught man that which he knew not.

6. Day, but man doth transgress all bounds,

7. In that he looketh upon himself as self-sufficient.

8. Verily, to thy Lord is the return [of all].

9. Seest thou one who forbids-

10. A votary when he [turns] to pray?

11. Seest thou if he is on [the road of] Guidance?-

12. Or enjoins Righteousness?

13. Seest thou if he denies [Truth] and turns away?

14. Knoweth he not that Allah doth see?

15. Let him beware! If he desist not, We will drag him by the forelock,-

16. A lying, sinful forelock!

17. Then, let him call [for help] to his council [of comrades]:

18. We will call on the angels of punishment [to deal with him]!

19. Day, heed him not: But bow down in adoration, and bring thyself the closer

What kind of a God wanted his share of Muhammad's mercilees spoils of war stolen goods from his enemy so Allah was depending on Muhammad's booty.

So Allah is not the God as the Jews. 

Quran 8:40 And know that whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger and for the kinsman (who hath need) and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if ye believe in Allah and that which We revealed unto Our slave on the Day of Discrimination, the day when the two armies met. And Allah is Able to do all things.

Sahih Bukhari 4:53:351 Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "Booty has been made legal for me."

Then he collected the booty and the fire came to burn it, but it did not burn it. He said (to his men), 'Some of you have stolen something from the booty. So one man from every tribe should give me a pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.' (They did so and) the hand of a man got stuck over the hand of their prophet. Then that prophet said (to the man), 'The theft has been committed by your people. So all the persons of your tribe should give me the pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.' The hands of two or three men got stuck over the hand of their prophet and he said, "You have committed the theft.' Then they brought a head of gold like the head of a cow and put it there, and the fire came and consumed the booty. The Prophet added: Then Allah saw our weakness and disability, so he made booty legal for us."




Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 10 March 2020 at 10:07am
Anyone who doesn't understand the true meaning of Allah's Words, will think badly, etc.
Likewise with the contents of the shahih hadith.


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Anyone who doesn't understand the true meaning of Allah's Words, will think badly, etc.
Likewise with the contents of the shahih hadith.
This was in Quran not hadith.

 
Quran 8:40 And know that whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah.

I thought the Quran is so clear that anybody could understand that.
Why would God appoint a prophet who had no knowledge of the Taura? Even Muhammad's Allah had no no knowledge of the Taura.
The Almighty God will not do that.  


Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 10:22pm
Quran 8:40 that you wrote is WRONG. And the truth is as follows:
Allah Ta'ala Said:
وَاِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَاعْلَمُوْۤا  اَنَّ اللّٰهَ مَوْلٰٮكُمْ ۗ  نِعْمَ الْمَوْلٰى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيْرُ
"And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your protector. He is the best of protectors and the best of helpers."  (Quran 8: 40)


(Why would God appoint a prophet who had no knowledge of the Taura? Even Muhammad's Allah had no no knowledge of the Taura.
The Almighty God will not do that.)


Can you prove it reasonably ?
Please do not in your opinion, because not everyone will believe in you which you are not God.


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 17 March 2020 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Quran 8:40 that you wrote is WRONG. And the truth is as follows:
Allah Ta'ala Said:
وَاِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَاعْلَمُوْۤا  اَنَّ اللّٰهَ مَوْلٰٮكُمْ ۗ  نِعْمَ الْمَوْلٰى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيْرُ
"And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your protector. He is the best of protectors and the best of helpers."  (Quran 8: 40)


(Why would God appoint a prophet who had no knowledge of the Taura? Even Muhammad's Allah had no no knowledge of the Taura.
The Almighty God will not do that.)


Can you prove it reasonably ?
Please do not in your opinion, because not everyone will believe in you which you are not God.
Read one verse further.
Surah 8:40-41.

How can Allah be our protector if he want his spoils of war.

Muhammad just made sure he get more out of the war.

40. If they refuse, be sure that Allah is your Protector - the best to protect
and the best to help.
41. And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire [in war], a fifth
share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger, and to near relatives,
orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,- if ye do believe in Allah and in the
revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing,- the Day of the
meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.

Matt 5:44
But I say to you, love your enemies and bless the one who curses you, and do what is beautiful to the one who hates you, and pray over those who take you by force and persecute you.

Same God Same God Same you explain to me.


Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 18 March 2020 at 6:42pm
(How can Allah be our protector if he want his spoils of war.)

Answer:
You only see meaningfully in its default language, even though what is meant for Allah here is that the spoil of war must be used in the way of Allah.
So the word "lillahi" here is an opening word for "littabarruk" (get a blessing).

So you must understand that Allah doesn't need anything because He is the Richest (owner of heaven and earth).
The purpose of mentioning the word "lillahi" here, is only to teach Muslims to familiarize "tabarruk" with the name of Allah, which is to do an act by mentioning His name first.

In Quran 8:41 there is a sentence :
يَوْمَ الْتَقَى الْجَمْعٰنِ ۗ  
"The day when the two armies met."

This explains the time of the Badr war that took place on Friday 17th Ramadan the second year of Hijriyah.
This means that only applies when Muslims are attacked or fought.

(Muhammad just made sure he get more out of the war.)

Answer:
It's only your opinion who doesn't like the Prophet Muhammad.

(Matt 5:44
But I say to you, love your enemies and bless the one who curses you, and do what is beautiful to the one who hates you, and pray over those who take you by force and persecute you.)

Answer:
Allah Ta'ala Said :
فَبِمَا رَحْمَةٍ مِّنَ اللّٰهِ لِنْتَ لَهُمْ ۚ  وَلَوْ كُنْتَ فَظًّا غَلِيْظَ الْقَلْبِ لَانْفَضُّوْا مِنْ حَوْلِكَ ۖ  فَاعْفُ عَنْهُمْ وَاسْتَغْفِرْ لَهُمْ وَشَاوِرْهُمْ فِى الْاَمْرِ ۚ  فَاِذَا عَزَمْتَ فَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللّٰهِ ۗ  اِنَّ اللّٰهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُتَوَكِّلِيْنَ
"Then thanks to the mercy of Allah you (Muhammad) are gentle to them. If you act hard and have a rough heart, surely they will distance themselves from your surroundings.
Therefore forgive them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult with them in the matter. Then, if you have made up your mind, then put your trust in Allah. Truly, Allah loves those who trust themselves. (Tawakkal)."
(Quran 3: 159)

Muslims are strictly forbidden by Allah to wage war unless it is fought. Here is His Word:

Allah Ta'ala Said :
لَا يَنْهٰٮكُمُ اللّٰهُ عَنِ الَّذِيْنَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوْكُمْ فِى الدِّيْنِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوْكُمْ مِّنْ دِيَارِكُمْ اَنْ تَبَرُّوْهُمْ وَ تُقْسِطُوْۤا اِلَيْهِمْ ۗ  اِنَّ اللّٰهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِيْنَ
"Allah does not forbid you to do good and be fair to those who do not fight you in religious matters and do not drive you out of your hometown. Surely Allah loves those who act justly."
(Quran 60: 8)

Therefore, if you want to know the contents of the Quran, then learn the right ones to get "hikmah" (the wisdom) from the contents of the Quran.



Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

(How can Allah be our protector if he want his spoils of war.)

Answer:
You only see meaningfully in its default language, even though what is meant for Allah here is that the spoil of war must be used in the way of Allah.
So the word "lillahi" here is an opening word for "littabarruk" (get a blessing).

So you must understand that Allah doesn't need anything because He is the Richest (owner of heaven and earth).
The purpose of mentioning the word "lillahi" here, is only to teach Muslims to familiarize "tabarruk" with the name of Allah, which is to do an act by mentioning His name first.

In Quran 8:41 there is a sentence :
يَوْمَ الْتَقَى الْجَمْعٰنِ ۗ  
"The day when the two armies met."

This explains the time of the Badr war that took place on Friday 17th Ramadan the second year of Hijriyah.
This means that only applies when Muslims are attacked or fought.

(Muhammad just made sure he get more out of the war.)

Answer:
It's only your opinion who doesn't like the Prophet Muhammad.

(Matt 5:44
But I say to you, love your enemies and bless the one who curses you, and do what is beautiful to the one who hates you, and pray over those who take you by force and persecute you.)

Answer:
Allah Ta'ala Said :
فَبِمَا رَحْمَةٍ مِّنَ اللّٰهِ لِنْتَ لَهُمْ ۚ  وَلَوْ كُنْتَ فَظًّا غَلِيْظَ الْقَلْبِ لَانْفَضُّوْا مِنْ حَوْلِكَ ۖ  فَاعْفُ عَنْهُمْ وَاسْتَغْفِرْ لَهُمْ وَشَاوِرْهُمْ فِى الْاَمْرِ ۚ  فَاِذَا عَزَمْتَ فَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللّٰهِ ۗ  اِنَّ اللّٰهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُتَوَكِّلِيْنَ
"Then thanks to the mercy of Allah you (Muhammad) are gentle to them. If you act hard and have a rough heart, surely they will distance themselves from your surroundings.
Therefore forgive them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult with them in the matter. Then, if you have made up your mind, then put your trust in Allah. Truly, Allah loves those who trust themselves. (Tawakkal)."
(Quran 3: 159)

Muslims are strictly forbidden by Allah to wage war unless it is fought. Here is His Word:

Allah Ta'ala Said :
لَا يَنْهٰٮكُمُ اللّٰهُ عَنِ الَّذِيْنَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوْكُمْ فِى الدِّيْنِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوْكُمْ مِّنْ دِيَارِكُمْ اَنْ تَبَرُّوْهُمْ وَ تُقْسِطُوْۤا اِلَيْهِمْ ۗ  اِنَّ اللّٰهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِيْنَ
"Allah does not forbid you to do good and be fair to those who do not fight you in religious matters and do not drive you out of your hometown. Surely Allah loves those who act justly."
(Quran 60: 8)

Therefore, if you want to know the contents of the Quran, then learn the right ones to get "hikmah" (the wisdom) from the contents of the Quran.

This means litteral that Allah get his spoils of war stolen goods that he and Muhammad share so don't come to me cause it was war and then utter some peacefull Surahs in Muhammad's Quran Muhammad was always at to cash up for his army and personal income.


Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 21 March 2020 at 6:34pm
I have explained that Allah does not need war booty. He only saw which people obeyed Him and those who did not.


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 29 March 2020 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

I have explained that Allah does not need war booty. He only saw which people obeyed Him and those who did not.

So the booty that belongs Allah was a lying error made up by Muhammad so that he can get more out of the loot from his robberies.


Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 30 March 2020 at 6:57pm
Answer:
Prophet Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, so he will not cheat against booty.

Can we talk about who the Lord of the universe really is? After that we will know who Jesus is and who Muhammad is, do you agree?


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 06 April 2020 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by asep garutea asep garutea wrote:

Answer:
Prophet Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, so he will not cheat against booty.

Can we talk about who the Lord of the universe really is? After that we will know who Jesus is and who Muhammad is, do you agree?

So you agree Allah is the Lord of the universe.
We can talk about this.



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