Wants a proof that Quran is God's word !! |
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Tim the plumber
Senior Member Male Joined: 30 September 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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What science is in the Koran that was not the general understanding of educated people back then?
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MIAW
Senior Member Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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You're welcome. |
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Al Masihi
Senior Member Male Joined: 02 March 2018 Status: Offline Points: 141 |
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The Arabic word �£مي has many meanings and doesn't necessarily mean illiterate. Many Hadiths also state Mohammed wrote:
Narrated Anas bin Malik: Once the Prophet (ﷺ) wrote (كَتَبَ) a letter or had an idea of writing a letter. The Prophet (ﷺ) was told that they (rulers) would not read letters unless they were sealed. So the Prophet (ﷺ) got a silver ring made with "Muhammad Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)" engraved on it. As if I were just observing its white glitter in the hand of the Prophet. Sahih Bukhari 1:3:65 Narrated Abu Humaid As-Saidi: We accompanied the Prophet (ﷺ) in the Ghazwa of Tabuk and the king of 'Aila presented a white mule and a cloak as a gift to the Prophet. And the Prophet (ﷺ) wrote (وَكَتَبَ) to him a peace treaty allowing him to keep authority over his country. Sahih Bukhari 4:53:387 |
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Al Masihi
Senior Member Male Joined: 02 March 2018 Status: Offline Points: 141 |
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There are two versions of the story of the first revelation. In the Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq it goes as follows:
When it was the night on which God honored him with his mission and showed mercy on His servants thereby, Gabriel brought him the command of God. "He came to me," said the apostle of God, "while I was asleep, with a coverlet of brocade whereon was some writing, and said, ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ (وما اقر�£ [10]) He pressed me with it so tightly that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said, ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it again so that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it the third time so that I thought it was death and said ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What then shall I read?’—and this I said only to deliver myself from him, lest he should do the same to me again. He said: ‘Read in the name of thy Lord who created, Who created man of blood coagulated. Read! Thy Lord is the most beneficent, Who taught by the pen, Taught that which they knew not unto men.’ So I read it, and he departed from me. And I awoke from my sleep, and it was as though these words were written on my heart. Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq [11] It says وما اقر�£ "and what (should I) read?". So in this story Muhammad can read, he just asks what should he read. Ibn Ishaq died in 761. But in 810 was born Bukhari, who wrote a little different story in his Sahih Bukhari collection: He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food likewise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "I do not know how to read. (مَا �£َنَا بِقَارِئٍ)" The Prophet (ﷺ) added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists), created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Sahih Bukhari 1:1:3 If the iqra in 96:1 meant "recite" as some translators translated it, then here Muhammad says "I don't know how to recite". This shift from "and what shall I read" (وما اقر�£) to "I don't know how to read" (مَا �£َنَا بِقَارِئٍ) seems to indicate that Muhammad's illiteracy was a later invention. |
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MIAW
Senior Member Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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The group in your link are called 'Hadith rejectors'. They go by many other names, such as: Quran alone Quranists Submitters They claim to be muslims, and yet they believe that there is nothing that Prophet Muhammad PBUH said in his lifetime worth recording. They claim to pray, fast...etc differently from other Muslims. They are favorites among atheists (such as yourself), because their opinions of Prophet Muhammad PBUH fit in approximately with what you believe. Thanks for highlighting them for us. |
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airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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Instead of attacking what they are, why don't you stay factual and address what they claim ? Airmano |
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The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Al Masihi
Senior Member Male Joined: 02 March 2018 Status: Offline Points: 141 |
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They are rejected by mainstream muslims such as yourself because they reject all the violent and disturbing Hadiths of Mohammed. But yes your right Islam cannot work without narrations to back it up which seriously ruins its credibility.
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DavidC
Senior Member Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
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Shia do not strictly follow Hadith, and I would not minimize them by dismissively classifying them as " Hadith rejectors".
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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