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Challenge for Muslims
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Points: 944 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2018 at 1:51am
Originally posted by Dr. Aslam Dr. Aslam wrote:

This is what the verse 22:42 says
Yet whenever We sent forth any apostle or prophet before thee, and he was hoping   [that his warnings would be heeded], Satan would cast an asper­sion on his innermost aims:   but God renders null and void whatever aspersion Satan may cast; and God makes His messages clear in and by themselves   for God is all-knowing, wise

It simply means that Satanic forces would try to create doubt and aspersions in the mind of believers but it would not make an impact upon the believers.

What you are doing is exactly what the Quran is alluding to.


The same obvious arguments I make were made back then with the same lack of actually dealing with them.
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Points: 944 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2018 at 1:52am
Originally posted by Dr. Aslam Dr. Aslam wrote:

Well Tim, the quality of the text is determined from the standard of the Quran not on the basis its literary value but on the basis of its divine origin. The Quran is essentially saying that the Guidance in the form of revelation comes from the divine only.


So the challenge is to make a piece of writing that is as good as the Koran with the criteria of being as good defined by being the Koran?

I can see why that is a safe bet.
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Dr. Aslam View Drop Down
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Points: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr. Aslam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2018 at 8:32am
We know your point of view but do not agree with it.
Best Regards,
Aslam Abdullah
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akthus View Drop Down
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Points: 10 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akthus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2018 at 8:45am
The real challenge for Muslims and other religions that claim theirs is the true religion is to be transparent and base answers on proven fact.
Unfortunately it can not be stated as fact that the Koran is the word of God because no evidence has been produced to suggest it is.
The same can be said about the Bible which was produced by maybe 30 to 40 people. The bible is just a collection of stories.
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Dr. Aslam View Drop Down
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Points: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr. Aslam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2018 at 8:55am
You raised a very interesting point. No religious book was compiled in the life time of the person that claims that he was getting the revelations from God in his life time eith the exception of the Quran. All texts except the Quran were written by the disciples based on what they heard. The Quran was compiled in the life time of the prophet under his supervision.
Now this issue is a mute issue. We ha e people believing primarily that most of us are born in that faith. Let us make the best of that belief system.
Best Regards,
Aslam Abdullah
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Points: 944 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2018 at 11:23am
Originally posted by Dr. Aslam Dr. Aslam wrote:

You raised a very interesting point. No religious book was compiled in the life time of the person that claims that he was getting the revelations from God in his life time eith the exception of the Quran. All texts except the Quran were written by the disciples based on what they heard. The Quran was compiled in the life time of the prophet under his supervision.
Now this issue is a mute issue. We ha e people believing primarily that most of us are born in that faith. Let us make the best of that belief system.



The book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith. He is the originator of the cult, Mormons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon

The church of Scientology was made up by L.Ron Hubard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology

Both obviously drivel of course but they still managed to create religons.
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airmano View Drop Down
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Points: 884 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2018 at 1:37pm
@DebateDebate

Actually I'm impressed by your knowledge of details, are you a former Muslim ?

I have read a good part of the Quran (before I fell asleep) and I was aware of 2:106,. However I did not stumble over/realize the importance of 22:52 before. 

22.52 clearly "admits" that Satan managed to introduce noise into the God->Prophet transmission channel (How could this happen, was He busy elsewhere in these moments ?).  It also makes the [historicity of the] Satanic Verses much more likely than I ever thought before since it sounds indeed like a direct response to these "allegations".  

In essence this verse is nothing else than a nuclear meltdown of the Islamic dogma of the "direct untouched message" from god.


Airmano
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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airmano View Drop Down
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Points: 884 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2018 at 1:54pm
@Dr Aslam
Quote You raised a very interesting point. No religious book was compiled in the life time of the person that claims that he was getting the revelations from God in his life time eith the exception of the Quran. All texts except the Quran were written by the disciples based on what they heard. The Quran was compiled in the life time of the prophet under his supervision.

Sorry, this is incorrect. 
Joseph Smith compiled the "book of mormons" during his lifetime. It definitely is one of the fastest growing religious communities. They even  claim [as everybody else] that their religion is the fastest growing own earth !


Airmano
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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