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Challenge for Muslims

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Peace maker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2018 at 7:33am
Originally posted by Dr. Aslam Dr. Aslam wrote:

Let us make it a civil discussion. The answer has already been given. if you do not accept it, it is you way of thinking.

No No thats not a fabrication it was writen in the Holy Quran Muhammad was blameless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr. Aslam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2018 at 4:23pm
Peace.
Let me repeat again. The story is fabricated. It was fabricated to develop the argument that you are pursuing. Muslims firmly and stoutly believe that ever word of the Quran is from God and the Prophet communicated the message to human beings with honesty and integrity. If you do not believe that he taught that God is one and unique and if you do not believe that He is the creator of all of us and He guided humanity to the right path, you are essentially misreading the Quran and trying to raise non issues.

Best Regards,
Aslam Abdullah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2018 at 11:42pm
Quote @ Dr. Aslam
Let me repeat again. The story is fabricated. It was fabricated to develop the argument that you are pursuing.

Can you lay down the reasons which make you think that the story is [entirely] fabricated ?


Airmano
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MIAW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2018 at 12:34am
Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

...Challenge for Muslims...

First: Dr Aslam:Assalamu alaika. You have my respect. I am hoping to learn from your patience. Please pray for all of us.

I did not really want to write about Christianity... mainly out of respect for some other members in this forum (such as CaringHeart and DavidC). However, now that 'Falsehood Personified' has joined us...

@ Al-Masihi,

What a childish challenge! You raise a challenge using a trivial, fabricated incident (again!) which has no impact whatsoever on Islam and its Teachings and Values, and which has been refuted by many scholars (I mean: Do you see ANY Muslims today worshiping those Goddesses?!)… and YET you are blind to the ‘enormous’ challenge that is facing your ‘religion’ (Christianity) today and throughout its entire history…. And this one is not fabricated, because it’s all over your (current) bible read by billions today…

 

Namely: How to turn the clock back, and eliminate all the changes and corruption that have riddled Christianity, and turn it back into the ‘proper religion’ that Prophet Jesus PBUH once preached…

 

I have now started reading the bible, and I have to say: I am shocked by what I am finding; things that I am going to have to start to ‘inform and educate’ other Muslims about… in order to expose the extent of corruption that has been perpetrated on Christianity… So ‘Watch this space’…

 

Let’s start with a simple question (challenge): Muslims today are following Islam… Are Christians following Christianity?... Answer: NO… nobody is following the teachings in the bible:


(Question 1):   Do Christians fast like Jesus?      

                                                                                                    

When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you fastput oil on your head and wash your face, 18so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. (Matthew 6:16-18)

 

And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. (Matthew 4:2)

 

And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting. (Mark 9:29)

 

People had complained to Jesus saying, “Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise the disciples of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink?” (Luke 5:33). But Jesus replied that as long as he is with them his disciples should not fast, but after he is taken away then “they will fast in those days” (Luke 5:35).

 

So after they had fasted and prayed… (Acts 13:3)

 

Answer: Christians do not fast; neither do they put oil on their heads. The disciples fasted like Jesus after his departure, and Muslims fast like them too!

 

 

(Question 2): Do they abstain from drinking wine? and...Do they hate their family members?

 

Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: (Leviticus 10:9)


"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

 

Answer: We know the Bible strictly forbids getting drunk and prohibits drinking wine (Leviticus 10:9)  Christianity is the cause of the social corruptions today, so how many Christians hate their family members, or even 'try' to abide by the teachings of the Bible?

 

 

(Question 3):  Do they pray in the manner of Jesus?

 

And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt]. (Matthew 26:39)


Answer: Do Christians pray like Jesus? The answer is no. The scripture above seems to imply that Christians are blind people who cannot discern the fact with their own eyes that Jesus prayed in physical manner.

 

Other significant examples:

 

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me and be thou perfect.  And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for Me, behold, My covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.  (Genesis 17:1-4)

 

Come, let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the LORD our Maker; (Psalms 95:6)

 

And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,  Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.  (Revelations 7:11-12)

And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the Lord until eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads.  And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord God, wherefore hast Thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? Would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side of the Jordan!  (Joshua 7:6-7)

And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the Lord appeared unto them. (Numbers 20:6)

 

(Question 4): Sell everything and give to the poor?

 

So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:33)

"All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said. “When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."  (Luke 18:21-22)

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, (Matthew 10:9)

 

Answer: Should Christians accept poverty and sell everything they have? This teaching is neglected because the Christian West is known as the consumerist society.

 


(Question 5): Is marrying divorced women adultery?

 

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. (Matthew 5:32, 19:9)

 

Answer: Marrying a divorced woman is adultery? How many Christians have broken this law?


 

(Question 6): Are they supposed to gouge their eyes? Cut off their hands?

 

If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, (Mark 9:43-47)

 

 

(Question 7): Are they allowed to save money?

 

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.  But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. (Matthew 6:19-20)

 

Answer: Jesus seems to be forbidding banks to exist, since the words “where thieves break in and steal” implies the storage of money and bank robbers! Jesus rejects the accumulation of money, that’s why he overturned the money changers at the Temple. The Hadith below clarifies this point:

 

Volume 2, Book 24, Number 488:

Narrated Zaid bin Wahab:

I passed by a place called Ar-Rabadha and by chance I met Abu Dhar and asked him, "What has brought you to this place?" He said, "I was in Sham and differed with Muawiya on the meaning of (the following verses of the Quran): 'They who hoard up gold and silver and spend them not in the way of Allah.' (9.34). Muawiya said, 'This verse is revealed regarding the people of the scriptures." (Sahih Bukhari)

 

(Question 8): Will rich people enter Heaven?

 

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, Luke 18:25)

 

 

(Question 9): Can they move mountains?

 

He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you (Matthew 17:20)

 

Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. (Matthew 21:21)

 

Answer: No. And don't anybody tell me that this was not in the 'literal sense', because: Remember when Jesus cursed the fig tree and it withered, bearing the sign that no fruit will grow from it again. Jesus himself made it clear:

 

Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered. (Matthew 21:19)

 

* Since the fig tree withered in the literal sense, it means that Christians can also move mountains in the literal sense too! This is precisely what Matthew 21:21 is dictating.

 

(Question 10): Can they walk on snakes?

 

I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. (Luke 10:19)

 

 

(Question 11):  Are they absolutely perfect?

 

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5:48)

 

 

(Question 12): Don’t practice good deeds in public?

 

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. (Matthew 6:1)

 

 

(Question 13): Do you follow this verse? Nobody really does.

 

But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:39)

 

 

(Question 14): Do not worry about tomorrow?

 

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wearIs not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?

 

"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' (Matthew 6:25-31)

Answer: It’s obvious that today’s Christians worry about materialistic things like clothes and shopping. They hang out and spend time in the market place, contradicting the teachings of Jesus

“To millions of Christians, Christ came to show them “the way” in which they should live, yet to what extent do they follow His advice? It seems that prefer to worship Him rather than follow Him. It’s easier on human nature, besides it takes only a few hours one day a week. Thus they are free to spend the rest of the time in the marketplace, doing the very opposite of what He taught. The result is we have sunk to the very depths of materiality; money is now our savior, and only knowledge that helps us make it is of any value (Lloyd Graham, Myths and Deceptions of the Bible, pp. 324)

 

(Question 15):  Are they allowed to worship two masters?

 

"No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, (Luke 16:13)

 

Answer: Christians worship Jesus as a ‘divine mediator’ between God and men. They also construct statues when the Bible prohibits the making of graven images. The Roman Catholics worship Mary and the Holy Ghost!

 

(Question 16): Will everyone burn in Hell according to the Bible?!

 

For every one shall be salted with fire,

and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

(Mark 9:49) KJV, 1611

 

Everyone will be salted with fire. (NIV), 1970

 

 

(Question 17):  Should Christians contest people who sue them?

 

And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. (Matthew 5:40)

 

 

(Question 18):  Are Christians allowed to get borrowed materials back?

Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back(Luke 6:30)

Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. (Matthew 5:42)




Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

...Christianity is the only religion that makes perfect sense and has no fault in it no matter how hard you try to take it apart...

Really?... even if no one is following it properly?... In your dreams maybe.


Sorry... I have to go now and continue to read the bible...  Shocked ...

 In the words of someone famous: I'll be beck! ...





MIAW















Edited by MIAW - 10 March 2018 at 10:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Masihi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2018 at 1:10am
If it's fabricated then you'll have no problem refuting it, if it's fabricated then that means they had to invent a false verse in order to make it realistic and in turn would destroy the challenge of he Quran. Your attacking Christianity to avoid the question kind of shows me your unable to answer. Muslims don't fast like Jesus do, we fast for forty days and forth nights just because an unpracticing Christian doesn't do it doesn't mean Christians do t do it. We fast about six items in the year this is what we're supposed to do and our fast is way harder then the Muslims. You sleep all day then at night eat like crazy, that's not how Jesus fasted but that's not fasting. Christians aren't supposed to brag about their fasting either like Muslims do. Leviticus is Old Testament therefore not followed by Christians it's Jewish law not Christian law and here are the benefits of moderate alcohol consumption https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Moderate_Alcohol_Consumption_and_its_Health_Benefits
Jesus didn't comman us to pray on our face or pray while standing he just said pray. When Jesus cursed the fig tree which was sign of prosperity to ancient Israel he meant that he was pronouncing his judgement on Israel. The point Jesus was making is that even a little bit of faith, faith the size of a tiny mustard seed—can overcome mountainous obstacles in our lives. The West is no longer Christian recent studies show Athiests form the majority of the western world and neither is western culture explicitly Christian. Although the west once based itself on the Bible these principles don't exist anymore. If a man divorces his wife for no reason other then his own desires or desires for another women then that is like adultery. Christians shouldn't hoard off money, money causes corruption we should only keep that which helps us survive and give away the rest. Icons aren't graven images first of all and technically Christ is also one with the father so we're not serving to masters. I see your quoting from answering Christianity my advise were to answer from your own knowledge not a junk website like that. Osama Abdullah has lost very debate and had lost to every Christian he challenged. Also holding Christianity to the standards of people is pretty dumb I can easily point to the huge amount of terrorism and crime in the Islamic world and say look how many Muslims aren't following Islam correctly. The religion itself matters not the people even if every Christian was breaking every command in the Bible doesn't take away the perfectness of this great religion. By the way I want an answer to my challenge and a yes or no answer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peace maker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2018 at 2:46am
Originally posted by Dr. Aslam Dr. Aslam wrote:

Peace.
Let me repeat again. The story is fabricated. It was fabricated to develop the argument that you are pursuing. Muslims firmly and stoutly believe that ever word of the Quran is from God and the Prophet communicated the message to human beings with honesty and integrity. If you do not believe that he taught that God is one and unique and if you do not believe that He is the creator of all of us and He guided humanity to the right path, you are essentially misreading the Quran and trying to raise non issues.

Its a undeniable fact that before Muhammad was born Alah had three daughters.
 
Muslim scholars like Ceaser Farah have stated this about Allah.
 
Allah the paramount deity iof pagan Arabia,was the target of worship in varying degrees of intensity from the southernmost tip of Arabia to the Mediterranean.
 
So how do you define Allah?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr. Aslam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2018 at 8:20am
I think you are totally confused about your own argument. You are raising dust from your own feet and then complaining your eyes are blurry.
The Quran was revealed upon Prophet Muhammad. He ensured that the Quran is preserved, memorized and written down in his life time. If a verse is not in the Quran, it is not part of the divine revelation.
Since the verse you are quoting is not part of the Quran, it was not revealed.
Someone must have fabricated this story to serve the interests of some individual or religious groups.
You are raising this issue, because you are trying to prove Islam a false religion. You are not the only one. There are many who came before you and would come after you. Would their opinion change the fact that Quran, as Muslims view, is the final word of God.
You are entitled to reject this idea.
But Muslims do not share your opinion.


Best Regards,
Aslam Abdullah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2018 at 9:53am
Dr. Aslam's polite explanation makes perfect sense to this Christian.

We can discuss MIAW's points one by one, but I think he/she was trolled into an explosive reaction. I blame the troll for that, not the trolled.
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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