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Topic ClosedWhy do you dislike the U.S?

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why do you dislike the U.S?
    Posted: 15 March 2006 at 8:24am

Salaam,

I have curiousity to why some of you (if not many) dislike my country?

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ak_m_f View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 8:55am
I dont like the current Administration, US is a nice country.
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Colin View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 9:04am

Originally posted by ak_m_f ak_m_f wrote:

I dont like the current Administration, US is a nice country.

Ditto.

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Shamil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 10:36am

Hypocrisy.

1. While the United States portrays itself as a land of opportunity for all:

a. It has a property taxed based educational system that perpetuates a drastic differential in educational opportunities between the rich and poor.

b. As a result of slavery, an ideology of extreme racism toward African Americans still persists among a significant portion of the population.

c. Higher education is beyond the reach of the lower classes, thus perpetuating both the class and racial disparity.

d.African Americans are dramatically overrepresented in the prison system due to the lack of opportunities resulting from (a) and (c) and a general bias against African Americans resulting from (b).

2. While the United States claims to promote democracy and freedom:

a. The nation itself was created from land stolen from other people against whom the US government committed genocide and whom the government refuses to compensate for these genocidal acts.

b. The nation's wealth is in great part due to the use of slaves, whom the government refuses to compensate for their enslavement and their continued underprivileged status.

c. The US has overthrown numerous democratically elected governments or contributed to their overthrow, and assisted dictators who oppress and kill their citizenry: Iran, Chile, Guatemala, Nicaragua, for example.

d. The US is currently engaged in a series of wars against Middle Eastern regimes under the guise of "democratization" with the intention of gaining control of the vast petroleum resources there to cripple its primary competitors, Russia and China.

I dislike many other countries even more than the United States, for different reasons.

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kenski70 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 11:46am

Sure is good to be back

Shamil half your post is true the other total well....a sham.

1) This is a nation where everyone has the abiltily to go as far in life as they want.the only barriers are self imposed..You have a computer you can get an education on line.you can get a degree and a high paying job from the compfort of home.No racial anything in the way.the poor could set up a free yahoo e-mail account and use a computer in the library.

2) This nation was in fact taken from the indians true. How do you compensate a people for such a thing? well you claim the US didn't even try.........in 1949 a federal law was passed that no only make all indians exempt from paying taxes,but the resevations they live on have special rules allowing indians to open casinos and keep all the profits and pay no taxes.that translates into billions of dollars into the red mans pockets every year.

3)Slavery made america rich????? slavery was abolished 140 years ago.dont tell me all those fortune 500 companies made it where they are by explioting the poor black man.....what a sham!

4)America is a big game of tag! I have no problem throwing out a racial slur here and there why? I have earned the right. see every ethnic heritage at one point has been at the bottem of the totem pole there has been a time when Irish and Italians were discriminated against,Then the blacks. there was a time not long ago when it could be argued that blacks and hispanics were at the bottem.Then came Sept 11,2001. thats when the black man and the hispanic man walked up to the arab american and went"Tag your it." Check the statistics Hate crimes and discrimination against Middle easterners has went up 700%.and another bad thing is Indians(the ones from india)also have bore the wrath of zealous bigots who do not distigish between muslim or hindu.they see that skin color and thats it.

5)true many of the wars of the last 50 years have been part of the cold war. The US supplied weapons to the Afgans when the Sovets invaded.Not because we cared so much about the Afghans as it was a chance to stick it to the Russians as they did to us in Vietnam. plus we wanted to see how those new stinger missles worked against russian aircraft before we issued them to our troops in Germany.The Soviets provided weapons to any Arab country willing to oppose Isreal the US supplied Isreal.Again US weapons against soviet.In the Yom Kippur war in 1974 the US made tanks were initially outmatched.But those antitank rockets we gave the Isrealis worked well so we armed our troops in germany with those.you might think this is evil for us to do but When the first gulf war broke out.We knew just where to hit those Iraqi T-72s to destroy them.The M-16 assult rifle has 3 times the range of the AK-47. Hence american troops killed Iraqis long before the Iraqis could get into range. The US long ago captured a T-72 and they took it to a test range.and fired every type of projectile possible from the cannon measuring the force and the muzzle velocity of the T-72.then we built a tank with special armour made of depleated uranium strong enough to deflect any thing a T-72 shoots.then put a cannon on our tank so strong a dummy practice round could punch through the strongest Russian made tank. thats why our tanks ripped right through the Iraqi tanks. Advantages like that came directly from forigen proving grounds. Inginuity is what we do here.



Edited by kenski70
Sorry about that turn signal,I must have fallen asleep.
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Angela View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 12:41pm

Shamil,

Yes, in some very real respects there is a double standard in the US.  The poor/rich divide is growing.  Student assistance programs are underfunded.  I myself owe nearly $30,000 in student loans and I left college my senior year because I was denied more loans and could not pay the $12,000 in tuition owed after financial aid. 

However, in that same vein, higher education is becoming MORE accessible in other ways.  Non traditional schools are allowing for people like my husband who did not have the opportunity of college after high school to get an education, cheaply and while he is still working.  My sister is obtaining a business degree online and more employers are offering tuition reimbursement if your degree is of use to the company.

Racism is a problem in the United States, but its also a problem elsewhere.  We were not the only nation to use slaves and England nearly sided with the Confederacy during the Civil War.  The problem with compensation of the ex slaves is you have to research and accurately account for the decendents of millions of slaves.  It took the black decendents of Thomas Jefferson 200 years to establish paternity.  I am an amature geneologist and it would be a bureaucratic nightmare.  Not every African American in this country would be due money, while getting it to those who would deserve it would be an insurmountable task, you would be paying people who themselves were not enslaved.  A single slave would have 1000s of decendents by now spread all over the country.  Perhaps a better solution would be to set up more foundations like the United Negro College Fund. 

Of course, then I would ask where is the compensation coming from.  My taxes?  Most of my family arrived AFTER the Civil War, and those that were hear since 1662 never owned slaves.  I have researched that branch thoroughly.  Why should I have to pay for the sins of another?

What really upsets me about our government is their continued blind eye to the plight of the native americans.  The Skull Valley nuclear waste dump will be on a reservation and the paltry sum given to the tribe will not cover their medical expenses when the stuff will be dumped there.  But there have been progresses made.  Kenski mentioned a few, there is also a law, forbidding white americans or any non native for that matter to adopt a native american child.  A child who belongs to a recognized tribe cannot be adopted outside the tribe unless they hold council and decide.  I still feel there should be more social programs to help.  The Casino dollars are not trickling down to the average tribe member and they are still in horrible circumstances.

The problem with the US is we are still a land of opportunity, or we wouldn't have so many immigrants coming in legally and illegally every year.  But, the dreams of those that got off the boat with my family were of a different era and now the US is at a crossroads.  Change is coming, for better or worse?  We can only do our best to make it the former and not the latter.

 

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Shamil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 1:19pm

I'm afraid I've seen and read too much to share your optimistic view, Angela.

However, as for your question as to why you should pay compensations to the victims of slavery, visit this site:

http://www.reparationsthecure.org/

This organization explains the issues much better than I can.

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Angela View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 2:18pm

This is a quote from that site:

We express our intent to call upon the families of the white American aristocracy that directly benefited from slavery, to voluntarily pay their fair share of the reparations debt with wealth gained from slavery, the slave trade, and slavery related enterprises.

Considering the use does not have a "white american aristocracy" as this intends, the money would come out of my check.  And Shamil, I can barely make ends meet now. 

Bill Gates....Microsoft was not around during the Civil War.

Marriott and Hilton.....made their fortunes after the Civil War.

Rockafeller, Hearst and Astor....many of these fortunes are already gone...the companies dissolved and flung to the four winds.

Who is going to pay?  Again, people who had nothing to do with the Slavery. 

May I ask you a question?  If your great, great, great, great, great....yes its been that long....grandfather stole a goat from another man in 1860-65, would you be responsible to go to the man's decendant and give him a goat?  Which of his decendants gets the goat?  Or do you give them all goats? 

I know that's over simplifying the issue.  But, many of the companies that benefitted from slavery are gone....many of the plantation owners were financially ruined after the war anyway.  What do you pay a person for what their ancestors complete humiliation and forced labor?  The average wage in those days was a few dollars a year.  Even by todays standards, how would you calculate it? 

Reparations are not the answer to the pain and suffering the slaves endured.  And I for one refuse to pay for something neither I nor my family did.... 

I read over the website.....they really don't have a plan for payment and their statements are vague as to WHO should pay......

I have many AA friends and my husband and I might be adopting an AA child.  I am not a racist, I just don't feel that more people should have hardships put on them because of something that happened 150 years ago. 

Reparations would hurt the poor, not the rich.  It would be taken from our taxes which pay for our social programs....or it would be passed to us in the form of higher consumer goods from the few companies that still exist.

In the end, reparations are not a cure.

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