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Topic ClosedWhy do you dislike the U.S?

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ummziba View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 2:28pm

Assalamu alaikum,

Brother Israfil, I can only speak for myself, but there may be many who feel as I do.  I used to "hate" countries but have grown to realize it isn't a country that you can hate, nor even its people.  What is hated is the actions done and their results:

  • I hate poverty, especially knowing millions of children in this world go to bed hungry every night
  • I hate that some people have more money than they could ever spend on anything while others can barely make enough for rent
  • I hate oppression of any kind
  • I hate excess of any kind
  • I hate that some get richer and richer on the backs of the poor
  • I hate when people express an ideal (ie. bill of rights, constitution, religious convictions...) but don't actually practice it
  • I hate when people who profess their love of freedom use that freedom to do things that are evil or bad for the society
  • I hate close mindedness, arrogance, sectarianism, secularism, nationalism, patriotism, and most of all racism
  • I hate when any nation, sect, people, tribe...interfere in the lives of others by political overthrows, backing of dictators, occupation of lands, or any other disruptive interference
  • I hate when anyone feels that "their way" is the only way
  • more than anything, I hate injustice

Sadly, I could go on and on with this list, but you get the idea.  It isn't nations who do these bad things, it is individual people.  Many take their rage at these injustices out on a nation or a government, it is easier to do that than to realize that it is individual "bad/evil/selfish..." people who carry out injustice.  Many of these people use others to do their nasty deeds.  Sometimes nasty people band together to do these nasty deeds.

When we vent our rage at all the nastiness in the world, how can we possibly know or even list the individual people who are to blame?  Isn't it easier to just hate a country, or political party, or sect, or whatever...?

We are all individuals, each of us responsible before Allah for our own deeds.  We should try not to blame any entity because painting all with the same brush is always wrong. 

Israfil, your country is just the place you happened to be born and raised, it isn't any better or any worse than any other country - it's all geography.  You shouldn't take offense when people vent their rage at your country, they are just venting rage.  You can no more do anything about it than they can about that which they rage about.

It is the actions of individual people that make or break the life of this world.  When we can all look at this world without seeing any borders, we will finally be "growing up" as human beings.  Insha'allah this post makes sense....

Peace, ummziba.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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Shamil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by Angela Angela wrote:

In the end, reparations are not a cure.

I vehemently disagree and hope that one day you will think as I do.

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 2:53pm

Salaam,

I agree Sister Ummziba with your post. The elements f what makes up a country are the inviduals that reside in them and even these individuals sometimes aren't to blame for the tragedies of the world. but it appears that here and in the world the United States seems to be the blame. And yes there are even people who hate the people of America. So many think that we tend to vote the president in, who, they believe was the common selection among other canidates.

However I feel that since America has double standards and they're commonly known many have used America as the scape goat for many of the worlds ills rather, take responsibility for the self. Regarding the issue of reparations I myself as an African-American do not believe in it. Abraham lincoln promised my ancestors 40 acres and a mule. We still don't have it. I agree with Angela you cannot possibly give reparations to every single descendant of slaves because this would be as she said would be insurmountable, some speculate would be in the amount of over trillions of dollars.

I ont believe that those who have no taken responsibility in the enslavement of Africans should not be held responsible. Also as she mentioned this country was not the only one. What about Africans who sold their own? And the Arabs and the Dutch and so on and so forth. Even if such an act occured this would not  cure the plague of racism. In fact I see reparations as making American Anglo's bitter because they would be punished for something the descendants of today didnt commit.

However the actions of today she be looked at the through the individual's nature rather blame everything on America because we are the perfect scape goat for eveything wrong with the world.

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Angela View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 3:35pm

I wholeheartedly agree. 

Another problem we have here in America is the media.  And by media, I mean movies, TV, newspapers, magazines and even books fiction and non-fiction.  In a country where everyone is allowed to say what they want, we have a disproportionate number of people who are vocal and don't represent the ideals of the Masses.

For example, Hollywood chose to honor "Brokeback Mountain" with a Golden Globe for Best Picture.  Yet, 17 states passed legislation against Gay Marriage last year and it looks like the total will be 25 by the end of the year.  One man in our area, Larry H Miller, chose not to show the movie at his Cinema theaters, he gave no official reason.  However, he was flamed as a bigot and anti-gay because of his personal choice. 

Hollywood and other media outlets often show the worst that this country has to offer.  Sex and Violence in movies, Crime on the news and reports of corruption in the media.  How can the average american be recognized as a hardworking person of faith, when you turn on the TV on Sunday nights and see Desperate Housewives committing all sorts of horrible acts?

I think the people of Hollywood who think that appearing in movies gives them a right to dictate the morals of this country are to blame for alot of the negative perceptions that foreigners have about the United States.  The days of The Cosby Show and other family oriented shows are long gone.  Its either sitcoms, reality TV or sleasy dramas and comedies.

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kenski70 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 3:41pm

I agree reparations should be made!!!!!! To ME! for one a house I bought cost 100k then 3 years later the city built projects 2 blocks away.the property value tanked and I had to sell the house for 70k because that was the best price I could get...........My family lost twins at Gettysburg,and another at Pea Ridge. Fighting for the union to free the slaves. and you think I should hand over cash too??? In fact I read somewhere that only 3-5% of blacks in the US have ancestors that were slaves.......I have some jewish blood can I have reparations for those pryamids?

Sorry about that turn signal,I must have fallen asleep.
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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by kenski70 kenski70 wrote:

taken from the indians true. How do you compensate a people for such a thing? well you claim the US didn't even try.........in 1949 a federal law was passed that no only make all indians exempt from paying taxes,but the resevations they live on have special rules allowing indians to open casinos and keep all the profits and pay no taxes.that translates into billions of dollars into the red mans pockets every year.

This is one reason I find the USA so insufferable right now, this air of superiority our country exudes as a whole. Most especially the average white person, who really believes that just by virtue of being born in the USA(the country they stole) they are somehow just better, morally superior, and qualified to tell every other person on the planet how to live the "correct" way.

Have you ever been on a Reservation? I am 1/8th Cherokee so my family is entitled to live on Reservation land. My sister lived on a Reservation in L'anse, Michigan for about 5-6 years. I would hardly call it compensation. It was more like a refugee camp without the tents. And yes, the Native Americans have gambling, but that is about all. And how nice of our Christian government to "give" the Native Americans such a righteous way to make a bit of money. Native Americans suffer from Cultural Despair. Native Americans have a suicide rate double that of any other Americans. They are plagued by alcoholism, drug abuse, and unemployment. On the whole, they  have lost their identity, their homes, their language, their reason to survive.

Of course, all occupying entities must feel that they have the right to commit genocide and destroy a whole people and their way of life or they wouldn't do so. And shuffling the survivors off to Reservations somehow makes up for this destruction...

This is the same mindset that allows most Americans to justify the treatment of the Palestinians, the invasion of Iraq, to turn a blind eye to the genocides in Rwanda, The Sudan, The Congo, etc...



Edited by Mishmish
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 8:32pm

Well Mishmish you maybe frustrated with America becauese of you past heritage but look at mine as well. We can all compare and contrast suffering just like the Jews and Palestinians do with their issues, but my main point here is that suffering occurs all over the world. But I have this sense that there is an obligation especially from Muslims broad to speak against America for what happens abroad. I refuse to post pitures of Abu Ghraib or speak against atrocities cause I know they exist, but I also have atrocities in my homeland as well. Maybe we she should think about that before we speak against the U.S

 

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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 8:41pm

If we do not speak against the wrongs done by our country in our name, then who will?

I am not frustrated because of my heritage, I am frustrated because of what is happening now, today within our borders and abroad. A wrong is a wrong, whether it is perpetrated against my fellow citizens or against the citizens of another country.

I was a little confused by your post Israfil. Are you saying that you should speak out or you shouldn't?

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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