IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Interfaith Dialogue
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Logical argument about God's Oneness
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Logical argument about God's Oneness

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
Author
Message
DavidC View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 2447
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2017 at 8:31am
In this earthly dimension all things must proceed from something which previously exists. The intersection of a fourth, spiritual dimension is a logical necessity.
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
Back to Top
Tim the plumber View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 September 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 871
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2017 at 2:00am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

In this earthly dimension all things must proceed from something which previously exists. The intersection of a fourth, spiritual dimension is a logical necessity.


1. No it is not. We simply do not know what started it all. Making up gibberish is not valid.

2. How would that wish based reason be any sort of guidance as to what/which god it was that was responsible?

3. How do you know that whatever it was that started it all is still around? Perhaps this universe is the result of an experiment in some lab that produced more than the scientist was expecting and the big bang killed the previos universe. Who knows?

Back to Top
airmano View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 March 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 864
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 12:08pm
Most of the monotheistic religions argue that "something" must have created the universe.
Since we do not have a clear idea (but NOT no idea) how our universe came to live the argument goes that God must have created it.

On the question: "Who created God" the answer is: He's eternal.

If the laws of nature which lead to the formation of the universe were eternal where is the need for a creator ?


Airmano

Edited by airmano - 21 May 2017 at 12:08pm
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
Back to Top
DavidC View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 2447
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2017 at 8:16am
Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:


Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

In this earthly dimension all things must proceed from something which previously exists. The intersection of a fourth, spiritual dimension is a logical necessity.
1. No it is not. We simply do not know what started it all. Making up gibberish is not valid.2. How would that wish based reason be any sort of guidance as to what/which god it was that was responsible?3. How do you know that whatever it was that started it all is still around? Perhaps this universe is the result of an experiment in some lab that produced more than the scientist was expecting and the big bang killed the previos universe. Who knows?

1) String theory and dimensionality are active areas in theoretical physics and mathematics. Not gibberish.

2) Please elaborate. Wish based reason?

3) How is this speculation relevant?
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
Back to Top
Tim the plumber View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 September 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 871
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2017 at 9:49am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:


Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

In this earthly dimension all things must proceed from something which previously exists. The intersection of a fourth, spiritual dimension is a logical necessity.
1. No it is not. We simply do not know what started it all. Making up gibberish is not valid.2. How would that wish based reason be any sort of guidance as to what/which god it was that was responsible?3. How do you know that whatever it was that started it all is still around? Perhaps this universe is the result of an experiment in some lab that produced more than the scientist was expecting and the big bang killed the previos universe. Who knows?

1) String theory and dimensionality are active areas in theoretical physics and mathematics. Not gibberish.

2) Please elaborate. Wish based reason?

3) How is this speculation relevant?


Yes physics is trying to get to grips with the fundimentals of the universe. The ideas they come out with are either speculation which are called guesses or hypthesis which are when they have some evidence to support it but not enough to be very very confident which is when it gets to be a theory.

Us spouting ideas that have no justification or support is gibberish. No matter how much you wish for it to be correct.

For you to cliam that there must be a god there must be no other credible explaination. There are other credible explainations. You must also have evidence that supports the claim or it is automatically gibberish.

Back to Top
airmano View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 March 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 864
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2017 at 7:35am
@WhosBob
Quote Here's another argument

If there were more than one god, then it would be illogical to claim that any god is either all-knowing or all-powerful. The gods would be limited since a portion would be allocated to other gods.


In your post you make the cited statement (above).
Your point is of course logical in itself but the true problem goes deeper.

If we have a truly free will where we can decide in a free [alias: unpredictable] way god will neither be all-knowledgeable and not even almighty anymore.

So what can we conclude from that:

A) We either have a free will and in this case 'almighty god' is dead
B) We do not have a free will. In this case god can still be almighty but in this case he will also be "all-responsible". So it is him that should go to hell for our bad behavior.

Any objections ?


Airmano      

Edited by airmano - 04 June 2017 at 10:12am
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
Back to Top
Tim the plumber View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 September 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 871
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2017 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@WhosBob
Quote Here's another argument

If there were more than one god, then it would be illogical to claim that any god is either all-knowing or all-powerful. The gods would be limited since a portion would be allocated to other gods.


In your post you make the cited statement (above).
Your point is of course logical in itself but the true problem goes deeper.

If we have a truly free will where we can decide in a free [alias: unpredictable] way god will neither be all-knowledgeable and not even almighty anymore.

So what can we conclude from that:

A) We either have a free will and in this case 'almighty god' is dead
B) We do not have a free will. In this case god can still be almighty but in this case he will also be "all-responsible". So it is him that should go to hell for our bad behavior.

Any objections ?


Airmano      


I recon that trying to catch out God in legalistic arguments is about as useful as praying to your cat.

Back to Top
airmano View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 March 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 864
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2017 at 12:59pm
@Tim the plumber
Quote I recon that trying to catch out God in legalistic arguments is about as useful as praying to your cat.
That's a bit too easy.
I do not rule out the possible existence of a god and repeated already many times I am agnostic not atheistic.
I do however rule out that an omnipotent/all-knowledgable god can coexist with the concept of free will.

If you don't agree try to show where the flaw in my reasoning lies.


Airmano

Edited by airmano - 09 June 2017 at 1:38pm
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.