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Logical argument about God's Oneness

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Topic: Logical argument about God's Oneness
Posted By: whosebob
Subject: Logical argument about God's Oneness
Date Posted: 25 February 2017 at 6:31am
Here's an argument that you can use for Dawah. It's especially relevant to Atheist and Poltheist.

Hope I've helped you guys out inshallah.


1.The Answer to heaven is God's oneness. But if you are still skeptical heres an argument for you amongst many but to me its the one that makes the most sense. When you about to die will you turn to one God or many. God wouldnt make it so complicated and confusing. It is also a very difficult time and one can hardly think. God had made it easier to hold onto one thought and this is the name of God.


2.There's is also the argument in The Quran. It sais that if there was more than One God then there would be war between them.

3.Another argument is that God is most wise, His clever, why would he give someone else the same power. It would just cause misery so why would he do something like this? His independent of everything, That's why his God. We need Him. That's the relationship between God and his servents. It's unique. He would'nt cause confusion, That's why he sent Prophets and the holy books.

4.Also a God isn't created, to be created, means that you are not a God.


I like the first one the best because it makes sense. It's something anyone can understand.


If there are more logical arguments please let me know inshallah.

Salaam



Replies:
Posted By: ISLAM HASHTAG
Date Posted: 25 February 2017 at 8:47am
Must Watch this funny yet logical dawah of yusuf estes:
http://islamhashtag.com/i-want-to-know-the-purpose-of-my-life/%20 - If You want to Know the Purpose of your life


Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 25 February 2017 at 12:23pm
Sweet!

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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 26 February 2017 at 8:07am
I see no arguments at all.

You make claims about God that you have zero evidence for and may just as well claim he is pink due to some sort of justification you have thought up.



Posted By: whosebob
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 5:26am

Here's another argument

If there were more than one god, then it would be illogical to claim that any god is either all-knowing or all-powerful. The gods would be limited since a portion would be allocated to other gods.



Posted By: whosebob
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 5:29am
Check out this link on youtube. It is logical of God's oneness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XERGzdFh-ok -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XERGzdFh-ok


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 7:24am
Originally posted by whosebob whosebob wrote:

Here's another argument

If there were more than one god, then it would be illogical to claim that any god is either all-knowing or all-powerful. The gods would be limited since a portion would be allocated to other gods.



Is that a reason for there not being any possible way to have a single all knowing god?

I still see no evidence in any of that at all.



Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 01 May 2017 at 7:27am
Originally posted by whosebob whosebob wrote:

Check out this link on youtube. It is logical of God's oneness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XERGzdFh-ok -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XERGzdFh-ok


I, sadly, watched the first few seconds. It's drivel.

Nobody knows where the universe came from. That there was a "big bang" start point of some sort is definately right, all the way donw to a subatomic size.

Smaller and further back than that nobody knows.

The idea that showing that science does not know everything will mean that your own invented drivel is sound is wrong. This question of what caused the bib bang is the same as asking what created God?



Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 02 May 2017 at 8:31am
In this earthly dimension all things must proceed from something which previously exists. The intersection of a fourth, spiritual dimension is a logical necessity.

-------------
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 03 May 2017 at 2:00am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

In this earthly dimension all things must proceed from something which previously exists. The intersection of a fourth, spiritual dimension is a logical necessity.


1. No it is not. We simply do not know what started it all. Making up gibberish is not valid.

2. How would that wish based reason be any sort of guidance as to what/which god it was that was responsible?

3. How do you know that whatever it was that started it all is still around? Perhaps this universe is the result of an experiment in some lab that produced more than the scientist was expecting and the big bang killed the previos universe. Who knows?



Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 12:08pm
Most of the monotheistic religions argue that "something" must have created the universe.
Since we do not have a clear idea (but NOT no idea) how our universe came to live the argument goes that God must have created it.

On the question: "Who created God" the answer is: He's eternal.

If the laws of nature which lead to the formation of the universe were eternal where is the need for a creator ?


Airmano

-------------
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")


Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 27 May 2017 at 8:16am
Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:


Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

In this earthly dimension all things must proceed from something which previously exists. The intersection of a fourth, spiritual dimension is a logical necessity.
1. No it is not. We simply do not know what started it all. Making up gibberish is not valid.2. How would that wish based reason be any sort of guidance as to what/which god it was that was responsible?3. How do you know that whatever it was that started it all is still around? Perhaps this universe is the result of an experiment in some lab that produced more than the scientist was expecting and the big bang killed the previos universe. Who knows?

1) String theory and dimensionality are active areas in theoretical physics and mathematics. Not gibberish.

2) Please elaborate. Wish based reason?

3) How is this speculation relevant?

-------------
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 27 May 2017 at 9:49am
Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:


Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

In this earthly dimension all things must proceed from something which previously exists. The intersection of a fourth, spiritual dimension is a logical necessity.
1. No it is not. We simply do not know what started it all. Making up gibberish is not valid.2. How would that wish based reason be any sort of guidance as to what/which god it was that was responsible?3. How do you know that whatever it was that started it all is still around? Perhaps this universe is the result of an experiment in some lab that produced more than the scientist was expecting and the big bang killed the previos universe. Who knows?

1) String theory and dimensionality are active areas in theoretical physics and mathematics. Not gibberish.

2) Please elaborate. Wish based reason?

3) How is this speculation relevant?


Yes physics is trying to get to grips with the fundimentals of the universe. The ideas they come out with are either speculation which are called guesses or hypthesis which are when they have some evidence to support it but not enough to be very very confident which is when it gets to be a theory.

Us spouting ideas that have no justification or support is gibberish. No matter how much you wish for it to be correct.

For you to cliam that there must be a god there must be no other credible explaination. There are other credible explainations. You must also have evidence that supports the claim or it is automatically gibberish.



Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 04 June 2017 at 7:35am
@WhosBob
Quote Here's another argument

If there were more than one god, then it would be illogical to claim that any god is either all-knowing or all-powerful. The gods would be limited since a portion would be allocated to other gods.


In http://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39011&PID=209611#209611 - your post you make the cited statement (above).
Your point is of course logical in itself but the true problem goes deeper.

If we have a truly free will where we can decide in a free [alias: unpredictable] way god will neither be all-knowledgeable and not even almighty anymore.

So what can we conclude from that:

A) We either have a free will and in this case 'almighty god' is dead
B) We do not have a free will. In this case god can still be almighty but in this case he will also be "all-responsible". So it is him that should go to hell for our bad behavior.

Any objections ?


Airmano      

-------------
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 07 June 2017 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@WhosBob
Quote Here's another argument

If there were more than one god, then it would be illogical to claim that any god is either all-knowing or all-powerful. The gods would be limited since a portion would be allocated to other gods.


In http://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39011&PID=209611#209611 - your post you make the cited statement (above).
Your point is of course logical in itself but the true problem goes deeper.

If we have a truly free will where we can decide in a free [alias: unpredictable] way god will neither be all-knowledgeable and not even almighty anymore.

So what can we conclude from that:

A) We either have a free will and in this case 'almighty god' is dead
B) We do not have a free will. In this case god can still be almighty but in this case he will also be "all-responsible". So it is him that should go to hell for our bad behavior.

Any objections ?


Airmano      


I recon that trying to catch out God in legalistic arguments is about as useful as praying to your cat.



Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 09 June 2017 at 12:59pm
@Tim the plumber
Quote I recon that trying to catch out God in legalistic arguments is about as useful as praying to your cat.
That's a bit too easy.
I do not rule out the possible existence of a god and repeated already many times I am agnostic not atheistic.
I do however rule out that an omnipotent/all-knowledgable god can coexist with the concept of free will.

If you don't agree try to show where the flaw in my reasoning lies.


Airmano

-------------
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 29 June 2017 at 9:48am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@Tim the plumber
Quote I recon that trying to catch out God in legalistic arguments is about as useful as praying to your cat.
That's a bit too easy.
I do not rule out the possible existence of a god and repeated already many times I am agnostic not atheistic.
I do however rule out that an omnipotent/all-knowledgable god can coexist with the concept of free will.

If you don't agree try to show where the flaw in my reasoning lies.


Airmano


My take on this is that it is like asking a 5th century goat hearder to understand and then explain to others how the futures trading markets in oil should work. Or the air traffic control regulations.

If there is an all powerful God (obviously I see no evidence of this but...) then who are we to be able to make any sort of statements about his abilities or motivations beyond what is obvious?

Disapearing up your own rear end in fancy language is not the way to get to grips with how the climate system works. Why would you expect that approach to work when trying to work out the nature of the universe?



Posted By: whosebob
Date Posted: 03 August 2017 at 9:00am

Chapter Name:An-Nisa Verse No:79
Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allah, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself.

This is the best answer for you. Life is a test, we have freewill. God wants the best for us but it through the evil in ourselves that bad things happen to us.

Their is also the spiritual realm in Islam. It states than in the Quran before all mankind was sent to earth, we were all gathered before Allah. We all submitted to Allah's oneness whether it was willingly or unwillingly. No one knows exactly what happen from there but some scholar say that one builds affinities their which directly affect our lives on Earth and your destiny.

Life is also a test. It has good times and bad times. Sometimes hardship is put in our path to help us get closer to Allah. Most times we put ourselves into a bad situation and God still helps us, This is why he is Almighty and Merciful.

Freewill is important. It is a gift from God. No creature other than humans have the power to reason like we do. So use it properly and see logic, God willing.



Posted By: whosebob
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 2:03pm
bump


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 14 May 2018 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@Tim the plumber
Quote I recon that trying to catch out God in legalistic arguments is about as useful as praying to your cat.
That's a bit too easy.
I do not rule out the possible existence of a god and repeated already many times I am agnostic not atheistic.
I do however rule out that an omnipotent/all-knowledgable god can coexist with the concept of free will.

If you don't agree try to show where the flaw in my reasoning lies.


Airmano


Well, yeah, but I am the wrong person to ask as my position is that any sort of God idea is incompatable with actually looking at the real world and seeing it as it is rather than how you want it to be.


Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 4:39am
@Tim
Quote Well, yeah, but I am the wrong person to ask as my position is that any sort of God idea is incompatable with actually looking at the real world and seeing it as it is rather than how you want it to be.
I guess your point is by and large correct (although I would not fully subscribe to it), but I can not see the link to my claim that an almighty God is incompatible with [a] free will.


Airmano


-------------
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")


Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 5:52am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

...my claim that an almighty God is incompatible with [a] free will.

@ airmano,

You really seem to have an issue with the concept of 'free will'.

In order to grasp the concept of 'free will' one must believe in two things: 

1 – That Allaah, may He be exalted, is the Creator of all things, and nothing happens in the universe except by His will. He knows what is to come and He decreed all of that and wrote it in a Book fifty thousand years before He created the heavens and the earth, as is stated in a saheeh report from our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He is Just and does not wrong anyone in the slightest, because He is independent of His creation and has no need of them. He is Kind and Gracious to them constantly, so how could He wrong them?  

This principle is indicated by a great deal of evidence in the Qur’aan and Sunnah, such as the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“Verily, We have created all things with Qadar (Divine Preordainments of all things before their creation as written in the Book of Decrees ___ Al‑Lawh Al‑Mahfooz)”

[al-Qamar 54:49] 

“No calamity befalls on the earth or in yourselves but it is inscribed in the Book of Decrees (Al‑Lawh Al‑Mahfooz) before We bring it into existence. Verily, that is easy for Allaah”

[al-Hadeed 57:22]. 

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah decided the decrees of creation fifty thousand years before He created the heavens and the earth. He said: And His Throne is above the water.” Narrated by Muslim (2653). 

2 – Man has free will and choice by means of which he does some things and refrains from others, and he believes or disbelieves, and he obeys or disobeys, for which he will be brought to account and rewarded or punished, although Allaah knows what he will do, what he will choose and what his ultimate destiny will be. But Allaah does not compel him to do evil, or to choose kufr, rather He clearly shows him the path and He has sent Messengers and revealed Books, and shown him the right way. Whoever goes astray does so to his own loss,. 

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“And say: ‘The truth is from your Lord.’ Then whosoever wills, let him believe; and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve”

[al-Kahf 18:29] 

“Verily, We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful”

[al-Insaan 76:3]  

7. “So whosoever does good equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant) shall see it.

8. And whosoever does evil equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant) shall see it”

[al-Zalzalah 99:7,8] 

“And it will be cried out to them: ‘This is the Paradise which you have inherited for what you used to do’”

[al-A’raaf 7:43] 

“so taste you the abiding torment for what you used to do”

[al-Sajdah 32:14] 

Allaah tells us that man believes and does righteous deeds by his own choice and free will, then he enters Paradise, or he disbelieves and does evil deeds by his own choice and free will, then he enters Hell. 

Every person knows in his own heart and by looking at those around him, that our deeds – good and evil, obedient and sinful – are done by our own choice, and we do not feel that there is any force compelling us to do them. You can curse, swear, lie and backbite, just as you can praise Allaah, glorify Him, pray for forgiveness, speak the truth and give sincere advice. You can walk to places of idle entertainment, falsehood and evil, just as you can walk to the mosques or places of goodness and obedience. A man can strike with his hand, steal, speak falsehood and betray, or he can help the needy, do good and do favours with his hands. Everyone does some of these deeds and he does not feel that he is compelled or forced, rather he does them by his own free will and then he will be called to account for them; if they were good, then the consequences will be good, and if they were bad then the consequences will be bad. 

What Allaah has decreed is something that man cannot know and he cannot base his deeds on it or use it as an excuse. It is also not valid for him to object to his Lord by questioning why He has caused someone to be among the doomed or the blessed.  Allaah has not wronged the one who is doomed, rather He gave him time and ability and freedom of choice, and He sent to him Messengers and revealed Books to them, and He reminded him and warned him with all kinds of reminders, such as calamities and tests, so that he would repent to Him and turn to Him. If he chose the path of misguidance, and followed the way of criminals, he only harmed himself, and he is the one who has caused his own doom, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

9. “Indeed he succeeds who purifies his ownself (i.e. obeys and performs all that Allaah ordered, by following the true Faith of Islamic Monotheism and by doing righteous good deeds).

10. And indeed he fails who corrupts his ownself (i.e. disobeys what Allaah has ordered by rejecting the true Faith of Islamic Monotheism or by following polytheism, or by doing every kind of evil wicked deeds)”

[al-Shams 91:9, 10] 


“Allaah wronged them not, but they wronged themselves”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:117] 


“Has not the story reached them of those before them? — The people of Nooh (Noah), ‘Aad, and Thamood, the people of Ibraaheem (Abraham), the dwellers of Madyan (Midian) and the cities overthrown [i.e. the people to whom Loot (Lot) preached]; to them came their Messengers with clear proofs. So it was not Allaah Who wronged them, but they used to wrong themselves”

[al-Tawbah 9:70] 

To sum up: the belief that Allaah is the Creator Who has decreed all things and has distinguished those who are blessed from those who are doomed, does not mean that Allaah forces His slaves to obey or disobey. Rather He has given them the ability to choose and free will, which is what they act upon, and for which they will be brought to account. Your Lord does not wrong His slaves.








Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 18 May 2018 at 2:08pm
@ Miaw

Instead of throwing unrelated Surahs onto me, can you answer two questions:

A) Is there anything I can do which Allah has not programmed in advance  ?
B) If 'yes': What ?


Airmano

Ps: Try to be short and if you cite Quran surahs, express your interpretation of the(ir) relevance, please.


-------------
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")


Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 3:27am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@ Miaw

Instead of throwing unrelated Surahs onto me, can you answer two questions:

A) Is there anything I can do which Allah has not programmed in advance  ?
B) If 'yes': What ?


Airmano

Ps: Try to be short and if you cite Quran surahs, express your interpretation of the(ir) relevance, please.


A) If by 'programmed' you mean 'Known' then the answer is 'No'. This has been covered in the previous post.



Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 8:24am
Quote Airmano:
Is there anything I can do which Allah has not programmed in advance  ?

Miaw:
If by 'programmed' you mean 'Known' then the answer is 'No'.
Thanks for your quick (and short) reply.

It does not fully cover my question though. By "programmed" I meant the following:
If I understand your logic correctly God made everything, thus (in the end) also me and you.
For the moment I leave considerations whether he only created the universe and the laws of nature at the beginning [ 1) without intervening anymore] or 2) whether he still actively intervenes, aside.

For the sake of simplicity I assume now 1) to be the case [using 2) would not fundamentally change my logic though] 

Since Allah is supposed to be almighty and all-knowledgeable he would, at -or even before his creation of our universe- be able to extrapolate in a deterministic way how every atom and even more you and I would evolve during our life.

Furthermore, he would have actively -by the act of creating the universe the way he did - have "configured" (or "programmed") the starting conditions of our Universe such that  you and I (amongst other things like galaxies and black holes) would unavoidably come into existence and evolve exactly the way we did.  He would have equally "programmed" (in the sense as I described above) every thought we had, have and will have.

Can you agree on that ?


Airmano



-------------
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 25 May 2018 at 3:07am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

Quote Airmano:
Is there anything I can do which Allah has not programmed in advance  ?

Miaw:
If by 'programmed' you mean 'Known' then the answer is 'No'.
Thanks for your quick (and short) reply.

It does not fully cover my question though. By "programmed" I meant the following:
If I understand your logic correctly God made everything, thus (in the end) also me and you.
For the moment I leave considerations whether he only created the universe and the laws of nature at the beginning [ 1) without intervening anymore] or 2) whether he still actively intervenes, aside.

For the sake of simplicity I assume now 1) to be the case [using 2) would not fundamentally change my logic though] 

Since Allah is supposed to be almighty and all-knowledgeable he would, at -or even before his creation of our universe- be able to extrapolate in a deterministic way how every atom and even more you and I would evolve during our life.

Furthermore, he would have actively -by the act of creating the universe the way he did - have "configured" (or "programmed") the starting conditions of our Universe such that  you and I (amongst other things like galaxies and black holes) would unavoidably come into existence and evolve exactly the way we did.  He would have equally "programmed" (in the sense as I described above) every thought we had, have and will have.

Can you agree on that ?


Airmano



Just to inject the mathematical or scientific thinking on this;

Just because you know the start position ( of a deterministic system) and the rules determining the way a system opperates does not necessarily mean that you know what it will do.

This is more ture for more complex systems. Although this is very true for systems of not all that much compexity.

The more systems you have interacting with one another the many times more it is true. Very very quickly the whole thing is unpredictable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0GOooE_79A" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0GOooE_79A

So just because the start conditions were set by God (going with flow of this) does not mean that everything is set. Free will is still possible within such a deterministic system.

And of course we are trying to use a legalistic or scientific interpretation to poetry. It might be back to praying to your cat as far as usefulness is concearned.


Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 28 May 2018 at 11:36am
@Tim
Quote The more systems you have interacting with one another the many times more it is true. Very very quickly the whole thing is unpredictable.
Perfectly true for humans, but here we face the claim of an all-knowledgeable being, and this is where (and why) the trouble starts.
Not the same.


@Miaw:
Any news on this subject ?


Airmano


-------------
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")


Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 29 May 2018 at 6:10am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

...
Furthermore, he would have actively -by the act of creating the universe the way he did - have "configured" (or "programmed") the starting conditions of our Universe such that  you and I (amongst other things like galaxies and black holes) would unavoidably come into existence and evolve exactly the way we did.  He would have equally "programmed" (in the sense as I described above) every thought we had, have and will have.

Can you agree on that ?

Can I agree on that ? Answer: No

God SWT Has Known about every thought we had, have or will have: YES
God SWT Has 'programmed' every thought we had, have or will have: NO

Does everything in the Universe happen with God's Knowledge and Will? YES
Does that mean that God Forces us or Makes us (humans) do things (e.g. actions and choices)? NO

You would like to eliminate the concept of free will and choice given to us by God... you want to put us (humans) in the same category as galaxies and black holes... but the fact of the matter is that: God Has given us free will (which He Did Not Give galaxies, black holes and objects), and we will be accountable for our choices. Please go back to my previous post, as we are going round in circles.

I think you (along with all the 'free-astray-no limits-thinkers' in human history) need to be discussing this with a 'philosophy enthusiast' who will be very happy to indulge until long after the cows come home. As for me, I would like to wrap this up; as I see (and more importantly: believe in...) this concept very clearly, but obviously you don't.

Your other posts: I'm still looking for some free time. Don't go anywhere!






Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 01 June 2018 at 12:01am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@Tim
Quote The more systems you have interacting with one another the many times more it is true. Very very quickly the whole thing is unpredictable.
Perfectly true for humans, but here we face the claim of an all-knowledgeable being, and this is where (and why) the trouble starts.
Not the same.


@Miaw:
Any news on this subject ?


Airmano


Disappointingly no. Although a better computer would allow the waether men to predict the weather better the most perfect computer theoretically possible will not allow them to predict the British weather more than 4 weeks in advance. The weather is simply too complex for any predictive mechanism to work no matter how good at doing all the maths it is.

So it is technically possible for an all knowing entity with all the computer thinking power possible to be unable to predict the weather more than a few weeks in advance.

Weather is very simple compared to human though. Well sometimes, human thought can often be very predictable....


Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 01 June 2018 at 1:44am
@Tim
Quote The weather is simply too complex for any predictive mechanism to work no matter how good at doing all the maths it is.

How would you define "all-knowledgeable" ?

Airmano


-------------
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")


Posted By: Lunarious
Date Posted: 01 June 2018 at 2:12am
It is not about just Allah being all-knowing, but also able/mighty. He doesn't need to prove anything to you though he is all-merciful. It is a matter of survival of the strongest, and Allah is not able to predict many things (true), however where there are 'walls', guided by wisdom he can break through them. However the good news is that he doesn't break any wall he sees, because he is wise. He is all-knowing because the thinking power, the computers are the Prophets and thei've surrendered their will to Allah. The True Truth. And the True Truth knows everything. Guided by wisdom we can connect to Allah. Prayer in arabic means connection.


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 05 June 2018 at 11:41pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@Tim
Quote The weather is simply too complex for any predictive mechanism to work no matter how good at doing all the maths it is.

How would you define "all-knowledgeable" ?

Airmano


I'm not sure. But my point is that even if all the positions of all the atoms in the air and all the atoms of all the other parts of the universe and their motion is know to an all powerful mind then predicting the weather 2 months in advance with accuracy is beyond the capacity for mathamatics. Just how it is.

Thus you can have the situation of something being all-knowing and not be able to predict with absolute accuracy the furture.

Obviously there are lots of things you can predict about the weather in 2 months with decent accuracy and know that it will generally follow the pattern of weather in August etc. Just not the detail.


Posted By: sara majid
Date Posted: 02 August 2018 at 9:11pm
From an islamic stand point the beauty of Allah does reside in the elegance of the Creator being one. To me that is a beautiful concept. 

Plus if you read the Quran on many areas he is declaring Him as the One. The greatest. The king of kings. The Creator. And there is so many verses in that reality. Only he has supreme power of life. 


Posted By: Lunarious
Date Posted: 08 August 2018 at 8:47pm
Life and death sister.


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 09 August 2018 at 3:14am
Originally posted by sara majid sara majid wrote:

From an islamic stand point the beauty of Allah does reside in the elegance of the Creator being one. To me that is a beautiful concept. 

Plus if you read the Quran on many areas he is declaring Him as the One. The greatest. The king of kings. The Creator. And there is so many verses in that reality. Only he has supreme power of life. 

Assalamu'alaikum,
Yes....You are right.



Posted By: ahmed11
Date Posted: 13 August 2018 at 10:43pm
From my point of view its the beauty of islam that there is no doubt in oneness of ALLAH



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