Jinns are not fiction |
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Child of God
Newbie Joined: 20 June 2015 Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Two-thirds of the entire world believes in the Abrahamic God.
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airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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@COG
Could it be that you mix up "Quantity" and "Quality" ? Airmano |
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The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Matt
Groupie Male Joined: 30 July 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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According to 2010 research by Pew, 54% of the global population self-identify as christian (31.5%), muslim (23.2%) or jew (0.2%). This does not mean they believe in God. 59.5% of British people self-identify as Christian yet only 34% of Brits say they believe in God. http://www.pewforum.org/2012/12/18/global-religious-landscape-exec/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom Extrapolating globally, that would imply that only 31% of the human race believes in your Abrahamic God. But 27% of the world's population is under 15 years of age. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_world That begs all sorts of other questions about why people believe in a particular god, but lets skip that killer blow to religious belief for a moment. Can we say that a 14-year old 'believes' in a particular god? A 2-year old? A new born baby? If we exclude these people then we're down to 23% of the world's population believing in your God. I'm not saying this is accurate, but clearly your number was a woeful over-estimate. But so what? Does something become true just because people believe it? Was the Emperor actually wearing clothes? If 'two-thirds' of the world actually did believe in an Abrahamic god they would still all be wrong. God does not exist except in deluded people's imaginations. |
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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You have seen fallen angels?
Yes, Jinns are mentioned in the Quran. Yes, many people have seen them. |
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and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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I just answered that above. It's not like Muhammad's story, which has no corroboration at all.
What do you mean Muhammad's birth and life have no corroboration? He is a historical figure. All facts about him are known through through eyewitnesses It's unfortunate ( but not surprising, really) that there were never any eyewitnesses to his encounters with Gabriel. They are not needed. The Quran is proof of its divine origin. Few people may have seen Gabriel. But the Quran is witnessed, read, analyzed by the whole world. Yup, it is a fact that this trust exists. It is not a fact that this trust is fully justified. Young children regard their parents as omniscient and omnipotent; but are they? The fact is that this trust exists. Similarly so, it exists about God as well. what reasons do we have to reject His existence? God�s existence is self-evidently true. Also known as a �basic belief� in the language of philosophy. The idea of self-evident truths are accepted by all. Take science for example: science takes the world�s reality as a self-evident truth; it believes that the world is real. In other words, the physical world is separate and external from our minds and our thoughts. Yup. Many psychologists see the belief in God as a transference of this innate trust in our parents. We have a deep inner need for certainty and protection, and once we realize that our parents are not omniscient and omnipotent, we invent an imaginary Friend with those characteristics to give us comfort. Is it not possible that the concept of a friend that you have just described is instinctive and it comes naturally because we just know that He exists. It is a fact that many people believe in God; but the belief itself remains just a belief, not a fact. How do you know that? An atheist should have no idea about what does it feel when one experiences faith? When one communicates with God? This is known as the fallacy of affirming the consequent. If a concept is a self-evident truth, then it does not require information transfer; but if a concept does not require information transfer, that doesn't necessarily make it a self-evident truth. As we saw above, our belief in the omniscience and omnipotence of our parents did not require information transfer, but neither was it true. No, I saw nothing of the sort. It was what you tried to say without any logic or evidence. I would say parents to a child of a certain age are close to being God as it is possible. But once the child grows that faith is transferred to where it belongs. Even if the above argument were valid, it would only argue for some vague form of deism, not for Islam and not necessarily even monotheism. Why not? The Quran was obviously an information transfer. It is still fair to suggest that belief in Islam is no different than believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It is information transfer, yes. The basic concept of God does not require information transfer. It is common knowledge and a universal truth. Flying Spaghetti and the Green Pumpkin are not basic concepts but flights of imagination under the influence of intoxicants. |
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and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
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Ron Webb
Senior Member Male atheist Joined: 30 January 2008 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2467 |
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Except the most important one: the revelation of the Quran.
How is the mere existence of the Quran proof of its divine origin?
Yup, it is a fact that lots of people trust God. But is this trust justified?
What reasons do we have to reject Russell's Celestial Teapot? The default position ought to be to reject such arbitrary hypotheses unless good evidence can be provided to accept them. This is just Occam's Razor, without which we could populate the world with all sorts of outlandish entities from invisible unicorns to fairy godmothers.
The reality of the world is the simplest assumption to make sense of personal experience. If the world does not exist, then we need to make a a whole series of much more complex hypotheses involving brains in jars or vast Matrix-generating computer networks. Again, science (along with most sensible people) makes the simplest assumption that fits the facts, until/unless someone can offer evidence for a more complex hypothesis.
No doubt. It also comes quite naturally for most people to believe that they are smarter than average. But simply because they believe it, that doesn't make it true.
I wasn't always an atheist.
Which part are you objecting to? That our belief in the omniscience and omnipotence of our parents did not require information transfer? Or that the belief was wrong?
Because:
Islam is not a basic concept either. Even if you can convince yourself of the basic concept of God without information transfer, you're still no closer to Islam than to Christianity, or Hinduism, or the Greek pantheon -- or Pastafarianism. |
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Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Tim the plumber
Senior Member Male Joined: 30 September 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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Have you seen one? |
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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Do you hold any positions of responsibility? If so, you must urgently advise all the people that rely on you that you believe in jinns. This will enable them to make alternative arrangements.
Why would they want to do so? Because you have a difficulty with things you cannot see or touch, feel or smell? Why are you assuming other people feel the same way? Isn't it possible that they have already made the effort to find them and have? While you are still blundering about in self-imposed ignorance. I'm not joking. If you were my doctor or lawyer I would be absolutely horrified that you believed in such nonsense. I would be completely unable to trust your judgement. Even though you are neither my doctor nor lawyer or even an acquaintance I am still concerned how can people like you make an issue of other people's beliefs just because the said beliefs do not conform to theirs, about which they know absolutely nothing. It is terrifying that people can believe in these fairy tales in the 21st century. I'm assuming you are an adult? I am an adult, yes. But how can you be so incredulous in the 21st century when all kinds of new discoveries are being made? However, if you are hobbled by your materialistic stubbornness you are the victim of your own self-destructive nature. |
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and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
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