Jinns are not fiction

The Saint wrote: I had said that the Quran is a zillion times more potent than any advertising. What was the import of the statement? That the Quran can have a serious and long lasting effect. And that is obvious. With a 600 year head start the bible is not as keenly accepted by the Christians today, than how the Quran is accepted by the Muslims. That is what I was referring to.

If that is what you were referring to, then you weren't answering my original point, which was that Allah's chosen method of communicating the Quran -- to a single person, orally, with no witnesses -- was a poor means of getting His message to the entire world.  Even after 1400 years, He still has only around 20% (or 23%, let's not quibble) market penetration; whereas Coca-Cola reached 95% of the world in only a few decades.

We do know most aspects of creation and we do know how it came into being. You pretend to know and claim that it happened differently. But you have no evidence of what you believe in while we have evidence of what we believe in.

And by "evidence" I presume you mean stuff that some guy posted anonymously on the Internet.

Manly things, according to me start with a natural query about this life and its meaning and purpose. The automatic question as to who had made the earth and the sky and stars and the Sun and the Moon? Because we know nothing comes into existence until someone makes it. So, who made them? Where is He? What did He make us? What does He expects from us?

We don't "know" that nothing comes into existence until someone makes it.  That is your assumption, and it is manifestly wrong.  It rained this morning, and numerous puddles came into existence.  Nobody made them.

You do not know or did not realize that he was proved wrong!

No, he was correct, as you affirmed in your original post: "Isaac Newton first proposed that Earth was not perfectly round. Instead, he suggested it was an oblate spheroid�a sphere that is squashed at its poles and swollen at the equator. He was correct and, because of this bulge, the distance from Earth's center to sea level is roughly 21 kilometers (13 miles) greater at the equator than at the poles."

I think I posted the proof about the latest facts about the shape of the earth.

Yes, I read it.  Let's follow the "chain of narration", shall we?  You pointed me to an anonymous article on newsrescue.com.  Their source (also anonymous, as far as I can tell) was againstscience.com, which in turn got these "facts" from stevezervos.com.

So that's your "proof"?  Some guy named Steve Zorvos, whose tag line on his Web site is "I am not the font of all knowledge but I will do the best I can"?

I'm sorry, but the fact is that Steve is confused.  He claims that the earth is ovoid, but his data (wherever he may have got it) says otherwise.  Steve acknowledges that the earth is 45 kilometers wider across the equator than it is from pole to pole.  That makes it primarily an oblate spheroid.  It also has a "pear-shaped" asymmetry, which amounts to about 48 meters -- about a thousand times smaller than the oblate asymmetry.  Put simply, he's about 0.1% right, and 99.9% wrong.

Why are you stuck on that verse? [79:30]

Because you brought it up!

You and a few others, it seems, are confused by the meaning of the word Dahaha.

Who is confused?  Find me a single legitimate translation that says 79:30 describes the earth as "egg-shaped".  I've got eight translations that all say it means "spread out".

the Saint wrote: I did not mean the remaining part of the message but the sentences that you appear to ignore in between. See what I said earlier: There are many signs around us that He is there. Why do you ignore the content in my posts that invite your attention to signs of divine origin behind facts stated in the Quran? I am asking you why do you overlook them? Is it not a sign of your escapism?

Again, if I missed something significant, please point it out specifically.  Also, if there are parts of your messages that you don't actually mean, please let me know about that as well, so I won't waste my time responding to them.

Most of the world, or at least the so called Christians do not believe in Christianity either. So, is Christianity controversial as well.

Yes, of course.

He could not. Simple.

So, no answer then as to why he could not.

And he was not reciting, he was repeating. Even reciting does not need a person to be able to read or write.

Exactly.  Whether reciting or repeating, he didn't need to be literate.

That is pure conjecture. There is no evidence that the Quran is incomplete. Therefore, we can say with certainty that it is absolutely complete.

There is no evidence either way, so we can't say anything with certainty.

Ok, let us read again what I had posted earlier: ... I think it cannot be any clearer than that.

All of which I have already responded to.  So no explanation for why Allah would need to abrogate a miracle, I assume?

Who reads the Bible now? Do you? Bible is not supposed to be taken literally now, many scholars say. It has little or no credibility today.

What a silly thing to say.  Especially after you just quoted the Bible yourself.  Especially after you tried to convince me a couple of weeks ago that the Quran 18:86 was not supposed to be taken literally, but was just "an allegorical reference".

Only such an all-powerful being could have created everything.

The Big Bang created everything (well, everything in our present universe, anyway).

And He has send down proof too, which you are not willing to acknowledge.

But then, we have already seen the sort of thing you consider "proof".

No one embraces a disease knowingly. This is a disease which is embraced knowingly. Therefore, those who embrace it are punishable. Particularly, after they have been warned of the evil of the disease.

Your first two sentences are mutually contradictory, so I have no idea what you mean.  Is homosexuality a choice, or not?  If it is, doesn't that mean that heterosexuality is also a choice?  And you're still not explaining why you call it a "disease".

Since The Saint declines to answer any questions and simply repeats varieties of the circular argument "The god of the Quran exists therefore the Quran is his ultimate revelation and therefore the god of the Quran exists" (I'll ignore his hatred of gays for the moment, but isn't homophobia a crime in most western countries?), I thought I'd look at this interesting contribution:

ISLAM HASHTAG wrote: Islam asks us to believe in ghaib. Jinn exist and it is mentioned so many times in Quran,I don't know how can anyone deny it?

Do you really mean this? Really? You honestly think that because something is mentioned as true in the Quran, everyone should obviously accept its truth?

Here is a proposition for you to consider:

Lots of people (the majority of the world's population as it happens) are not muslims and do not think that the Quran is the word of god.

Can you grasp that? Yes? OK, now I'm really going to stretch you. Try to imagine that god does not exist. It's really not that difficult if you give it a moment's thought.

OK, now that you're imaging that obvious possibility, try to imagine how you would respond if somebody came up to you and said they were in possession of a book written by god that proved the existence of fairies.

Isn't it amazing that anyone would believe such a silly thing! And on such flimsy evidence! Crikey, how ridiculous.

Well done, now you understand how the majority of the world's population feel about your beliefs.

Edited by Matt - 07 September 2015 at 8:57am

Airmano Now to your statements: I admit that the imperial history of Europe and the US is nothing to be proud of. I can't see why you mix Netanyahu into your post. The Muslim standpoint on Israel is something we should possibly discuss elsewhere. The Saint Netanyahu is a legacy of European and American colonialism. He/Israel continues till date to do to Muslims what former colonialists did to Muslims.

I have no sympathy towards the expansion of the Israeli settlements into the occupied areas.
But I have also no sympathy towards the frequent Muslim claim that the state of Israel should be erased from the map.
Applying this logic you can as well eject the Turks from Byzantine and the Muslims from the former Christian Levant.
I sometimes have the feeling that the state of Israel is like a present from Allah, (ab)used to unite the different Muslim states is their hatred.
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Airmano: How do you actually morally justify the imperial expansion of Islam by its caliphs and the mass-exploitation of farmers under the Umiyyads + the brutal treatment of slaves under their reign (which lead to the Zanj revolts) ? The Saint: Before I answer that question I wish to ask you if you are aware of the fallacy of referring to anything as Imperial Islam?

Yes, go ahead and explain, I'm more than curious.
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The Saint: You will clearly have to unlearn a few things and to be very cautious when you try to lump the four rightly-guide Caliphs or Khalifas with monarchial rulers.

That's not what I see.
Did the Egyptians beg to be occupied by Muslim rulers?



Airmano

Edited by airmano - 07 September 2015 at 12:53pm

Learn your poem and you will be asked to repeat it on the day of judgement.When you will be terrified .don't make an excuse that no one reminded me :

"And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful."


"But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."