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Caringheart 
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 Topic: supernaturalPosted: 25 May 2014 at 6:21pm |
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Do muslims believe in the supernatural? In visions?
What do they say about the Marian apparitions reported around the world? |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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islamispeace
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Posted: 25 May 2014 at 8:41pm |
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Of course Muslims believe in the supernatural. We believe in God, angels and the jinn. As for the "Marian apparitions", I would say that they are the result of the one or more of the following: 1. Hoaxes 2. Hallucinations and/or mass hysteria 3. Demonic activity. |
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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Caringheart
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Posted: 25 May 2014 at 9:37pm |
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Greetings islamispeace, You should watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yii76a7TSLg It is in 7 short parts, the first 4 being the most important ones. Tell me what you think. I would love to know. asalaam, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 25 May 2014 at 9:38pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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islamispeace
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Posted: 25 May 2014 at 10:08pm |
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Is this supposed to impress me or anyone else?  It seems to me that either of the 3 scenarios I suggested could apply in this case. Even if these so-called "visions" were real, it could just be due to demonic activity. Think about it. These people dance and pray in front of a statue of the Virgin Mary! Only a demon would encourage such activity! Idolatry has no place in the religion of Abraham (peace be upon him). As for the Rwandan genocide, if the visions were supposedly "prophesying" the horrific violence that would take place 13 years later, why didn't the visions help stop the violence? Instead, why were 800,000 people still allowed to be slaughtered? Why was one of the supposed "visionaries" among the victims? |
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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Caringheart
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Posted: 25 May 2014 at 11:49pm |
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Greetings islamispeace, Did you even watch? any of it? The documentary that was made by Immaculee Ilibagiza (survivor of the genocide who went on to work for the UN), was titled, If Only We Had Listened. It was not "meant to impress". I was actually hoping for, and indeed expecting, a thoughtfully considered reply. TG seems to think it is possible to have intelligent discussions with you. Salaam. Edited by Caringheart - 25 May 2014 at 11:50pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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islamispeace
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Posted: 26 May 2014 at 11:03am |
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Well, in order to have "intelligent discussions" with me, you need to first have "intelligence"! Based on my experience with you, I am not holding my breath! In any case, did you read my response? I stated why I think these so-called "visions" can be explained using any of the three scenarios I listed. Even demonic activity is possible, given how these people pray to statues. Only a demon would encourage such activity. If the purpose of the visions was to warn of the coming genocide, then perhaps more information should have been given instead of just some vague visions of "rivers of blood". What ended up happening is that 800,000 people were massacred anyway, and the "visions" did nothing to stop them. And why is it that the "Virgin Mary" did not return to warn of the many on-going massacres that are occurring not only in Africa but the world? Were there any visions prophesying the violence in the Central African Republic, Sudan, Syria, etc? What is the point of "visions" when they serve no practical purpose and can be interpreted in many ways due to their deliberate vagueness? You might as well claim that Jesus appeared in your toast and told you that the end of the world is nigh! Edited by islamispeace - 26 May 2014 at 11:35am |
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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Caringheart
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Posted: 26 May 2014 at 11:52am |
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Edited by Caringheart - 26 May 2014 at 11:56am |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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islamispeace
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Posted: 26 May 2014 at 1:35pm |
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Why am I not surprised that you would try to downplay the overt acts of idolatry these people indulge in? When I saw that, it was enough to tell me that these so-called "visions" are not genuine messages from the divine but rather either the result of mass delusions or even worse, a cruel Satanic trick. Only Satan would encourage idol worship. What if someone claimed that their idols came "alive" or that they had visions from their "gods" prophesying some future event? Would you just blindly believe them? Check this video out. What do you think is at play here? Mass hysteria? A Hoax? Satanic activity? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzhfPSxkdb4
Well, who can blame them? The "Lady" did not provide any concrete information, did she? No, just vague "visions" of "rivers of blood". It would have been more worthwhile if the "Lady" would have provided some real information, such as when the massacres would occur, who would be responsible, some warning signs of the coming violence, etc. Any of this information would have been priceless as it could have actually saved thousands of lives. Why didn't the "Lady" provide the identities of the main ringleaders of the genocide? Maybe with that information, organizations like the Interahamwe militia could have been stopped.
That could be due to a disorder known as "periodic catatonia". Or it could be that these people had practiced to assume this state. Or it may have been due to genuine demonic activity. Anything is possible. It doesn't mean that these people were actually receiving divine visions, which in the end, did nothing to stop the horrific violence they were purportedly "prophesying".
It's your mind that is closed. You just show your gullibility in believing this nonsense without thinking. Why does that seem to be your mantra? "Don't think. Just believe."
Well, sorry to disappoint ya, but it ain't gonna happen! I prefer to think using my God-given common sense and reason instead of just blindly accepting these stories. I find these stories no more "compelling" than the claims of people who think they have been abducted by aliens or the so-called "milk miracle" shown in the video above. Most of the time, these people are just the victims of their own imaginations. In a small amount of cases, I think it is possible that they are actually the victims of demonic tricks. Satan plays on the superstitions of gullible people to get them to do and believe things which are an offense to God.
Yes, and it is just another example of the mass hysteria that is prevalent in the Catholic Church. In this case, there were more vague "visions" and no concrete information.
 Oh bravo. Didn't I mention that these "visions" could be due to demonic activity? The last time I checked, demons belonged to the supernatural realm! And yes, I make a joke of it because it is pure nonsense. The so-called "Lady" didn't think it was prudent of her to provide some real information. Instead, she just decided to "tease" these people and scare them, and in the end, give them no means to actually stop the horrific violence that would grip the country in 1994. She might as well have appeared in their toast and say "Hi ya! Just stopping by!" By the way, do you realize that during the genocide, the small Muslim community actually saved many Tutsis from the murderous Hutu gangs, while many church leaders actively promoted the violence? Why didn't the "Lady" identify the evil church leaders who would promote the violence so that they could have been ousted before stirring their congregations to commit barbaric acts of genocide? Edited by islamispeace - 26 May 2014 at 1:38pm |
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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Caringheart wrote: