Surah 14.4

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   First as I mentioned IF Quran is the word of God each Ayat should stand on its own merits...You have mentioned other portions of your holy Book to state that the will of the person determines whether he gets heaven or hell. But Sura 14:4 clearly mentions that Allah sends Astray whom he wills. You acknowledge the will of Allah as being supreme, so then what is the will of man in the face of Allah who can deem to send you astray and to hell. Is there any guarantee that a Muslim is not being led astray by Allah? What is the assurance that you have that Allah will not lead you astray? When a muslim says Ishallah doesnt it mean that the will of Allah be done? What if Allah has willed that you be led astray? 
In any case the Ayats that you quoted contradict what is said in Sura 14.4, so which part is true...and If One part is false then the Quran can in no way be the Word of God

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bronaz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 21 May 2013 Status: Offline Points: 45	Post Options Post Reply Quote bronaz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 May 2013 at 9:45pm
	First as I mentioned IF Quran is the word of God each Ayat should stand on its own merits...You have mentioned other portions of your holy Book to state that the will of the person determines whether he gets heaven or hell. But Sura 14:4 clearly mentions that Allah sends Astray whom he wills. You acknowledge the will of Allah as being supreme, so then what is the will of man in the face of Allah who can deem to send you astray and to hell. Is there any guarantee that a Muslim is not being led astray by Allah? What is the assurance that you have that Allah will not lead you astray? When a muslim says Ishallah doesnt it mean that the will of Allah be done? What if Allah has willed that you be led astray? In any case the Ayats that you quoted contradict what is said in Sura 14.4, so which part is true...and If One part is false then the Quran can in no way be the Word of God

NABA Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867	Post Options Post Reply Quote NABA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 May 2013 at 9:05am
	No,not at all,Allah is above everything,I once again repeat-Surah Al Mulk ch 67 v 2-Allah created life and death to test us.Allah is saying that life is a test.for eg we give so many tests in school and colleges on question papers made by teachers,result only depend on student's hard work not according to teacher.similarly life is a test and difficulties are questions for us to test our patience,some deal with patience and some resort to wrong path,Allah clearly mentions in Surah Al Hajj ch 22 v 11-Allah says man becomes ungrateful during difficult times,in Surah Al isra ch 17 v 13-14-in the hereafter in front of every soul-his whole record of life will b put in front of him.

bronaz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 21 May 2013 Status: Offline Points: 45	Post Options Post Reply Quote bronaz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 May 2013 at 7:09pm
	The question I raised was that the Quran specifically states that Allah sends astray who he wills. Instead of guiding everyone to heaven...some are predestined for hell...then why follow the Muslim faith when heaven is not guaranteed by your holy book. If some one is going to be led astray by Allah then he is doomed from the moment of birth. In the case of Iblis...that was a choice he made but the Quran specifically states that Allah leads astray whom he wills, Are you therefore saying that the free will of any creature overrides the will of God...then that explanation is totally against what is said in that Ayat. Edited by bronaz - 24 May 2013 at 7:11pm

NABA Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867	Post Options Post Reply Quote NABA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 May 2013 at 11:16am
	Then I ask U y v R here???y iblis who ones was an angel become Satan after not bowing to prophet Adam(pbuh),because Allah regards human beings as the best creation and he given us guidelines to follow it or not,free will means not to bound by destiny(except life n death)

bronaz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 21 May 2013 Status: Offline Points: 45	Post Options Post Reply Quote bronaz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 May 2013 at 7:20pm
	Using what you said....Since Allah chooses he wants to save...he chose to save Jonah....but if it was someone else who was predestined for hell...he wouldnt save him...that is what the ayat says

NABA Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867	Post Options Post Reply Quote NABA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 May 2013 at 9:37am
	no,I don't agree with you,then what's the meaning living in this cruel world where so many times U R right but still can't get the desired result,because Allah is testing us for patience as mentioned in Surah Al Asra ch 103 v 1-3-with the token of time men is in the state of loss except those who have faith,who does righteous deeds,resort people to truth,resort people to patience and perseverance.then I will tell U a TRUE incident about prophet Jonah(pbuh),he was disheartened when his people were not willing to listen to his message to worship Only Allah,with that he left his place and went on to the ship,suddenly a violent storm appeared,then the captain tossed who will abandoned the ship in order to remove one who brought bad luck(people in those ages were superstitious)somehow that happened to b prophet Jonah(pbuh) and he jumped into the sea and he was swallowed by the fish,in side it he was in the very dark situation,from there he called Allah for help and Allah helped him(ch 21 v 87),Allah clearly says in Surah al saffat ch 37 v 143-144-that if prophet Jonah(pbuh) would not have called Allah in that phase,Allah could have him remained in the stomach of fish till judgment day,this proves that it is in our hands to receive guidance or not. Edited by NABA - 23 May 2013 at 9:38am

bronaz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 21 May 2013 Status: Offline Points: 45	Post Options Post Reply Quote bronaz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 May 2013 at 7:58pm
	First of all if we call Quran the Word of God...each phrase should be able to stand on its own merit..and not be explained by some other verse. If two verses say the same thing then we can confirm what is being said.The key point that seems to be made here is predistination...Allah seems to have predestined some for hell, it clearly states Allah sends astray who he wills.. Clearly the persons will has nothing to do with it...he is destined for hell from the very beginning.

NABA Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867	Post Options Post Reply Quote NABA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 May 2013 at 9:09am
	In Surah Al Ra'ad ch 13 v 11-Allah does not change the position of those people who themselves don't want to change,from this verse it is truly mentioned we ourselves are responsible for our own deeds,Allah sent those people to astray who themselves don't want to know the truth I.e truth about Islam(submitting the will to Allah).Surah Al Ankaboot ch 29 v 69-if U strive in the way of Allah,Allah will open pathways for U in heaven.yes,Allah has decided about birth and death,as mentioned in Surah Al Mulk ch 67 v 2-Allah has created life and death to test U.