Surah 14.4
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Topic: Surah 14.4
Posted By: bronaz
Subject: Surah 14.4
Date Posted: 21 May 2013 at 8:03pm
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And We did not send any
messenger except [speaking] in the language of his people to
state clearly for them, and Allah sends astray [thereby] whom He
wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the Exalted in
Might, the Wise. The above is from Sura 14:4 My question is this...If Allah sends someone Astray he is directing him towards hell. We all have free choice...but the will of God overrides it in some matters eg life, death etc. When Allah predestines to lead someone astray...he is setting him on a path to HELL. That would be unusual for a God to do..because the very purpose of a holy book is to guide people to heaven. |
Replies:
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 22 May 2013 at 9:09am
| In Surah Al Ra'ad ch 13 v 11-Allah does not change the position of those people who themselves don't want to change,from this verse it is truly mentioned we ourselves are responsible for our own deeds,Allah sent those people to astray who themselves don't want to know the truth I.e truth about Islam(submitting the will to Allah).Surah Al Ankaboot ch 29 v 69-if U strive in the way of Allah,Allah will open pathways for U in heaven.yes,Allah has decided about birth and death,as mentioned in Surah Al Mulk ch 67 v 2-Allah has created life and death to test U. |
Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 22 May 2013 at 7:58pm
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First of all if we call Quran the Word of God...each phrase should be able to stand on its own merit..and not be explained by some other verse. If two verses say the same thing then we can confirm what is being said.The key point that seems to be made here is predistination...Allah seems to have predestined some for hell, it clearly states Allah sends astray who he wills.. Clearly the persons will has nothing to do with it...he is destined for hell from the very beginning. |
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 23 May 2013 at 9:37am
| no,I don't agree with you,then what's the meaning living in this cruel world where so many times U R right but still can't get the desired result,because Allah is testing us for patience as mentioned in Surah Al Asra ch 103 v 1-3-with the token of time men is in the state of loss except those who have faith,who does righteous deeds,resort people to truth,resort people to patience and perseverance.then I will tell U a TRUE incident about prophet Jonah(pbuh),he was disheartened when his people were not willing to listen to his message to worship Only Allah,with that he left his place and went on to the ship,suddenly a violent storm appeared,then the captain tossed who will abandoned the ship in order to remove one who brought bad luck(people in those ages were superstitious)somehow that happened to b prophet Jonah(pbuh) and he jumped into the sea and he was swallowed by the fish,in side it he was in the very dark situation,from there he called Allah for help and Allah helped him(ch 21 v 87),Allah clearly says in Surah al saffat ch 37 v 143-144-that if prophet Jonah(pbuh) would not have called Allah in that phase,Allah could have him remained in the stomach of fish till judgment day,this proves that it is in our hands to receive guidance or not. |
Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 23 May 2013 at 7:20pm
| Using what you said....Since Allah chooses he wants to save...he chose to save Jonah....but if it was someone else who was predestined for hell...he wouldnt save him...that is what the ayat says |
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 24 May 2013 at 11:16am
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Then I ask U y v R here???y iblis who ones was an angel become Satan after not bowing to prophet Adam(pbuh),because Allah regards human beings as the best creation and he given us guidelines to follow it or not,free will means not to bound by destiny(except life n death) |
Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 24 May 2013 at 7:09pm
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The question I raised was that the Quran specifically states that Allah sends astray who he wills. Instead of guiding everyone to heaven...some are predestined for hell...then why follow the Muslim faith when heaven is not guaranteed by your holy book. If some one is going to be led astray by Allah then he is doomed from the moment of birth. In the case of Iblis...that was a choice he made but the Quran specifically states that Allah leads astray whom he wills, Are you therefore saying that the free will of any creature overrides the will of God...then that explanation is totally against what is said in that Ayat. |
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 25 May 2013 at 9:05am
| No,not at all,Allah is above everything,I once again repeat-Surah Al Mulk ch 67 v 2-Allah created life and death to test us.Allah is saying that life is a test.for eg we give so many tests in school and colleges on question papers made by teachers,result only depend on student's hard work not according to teacher.similarly life is a test and difficulties are questions for us to test our patience,some deal with patience and some resort to wrong path,Allah clearly mentions in Surah Al Hajj ch 22 v 11-Allah says man becomes ungrateful during difficult times,in Surah Al isra ch 17 v 13-14-in the hereafter in front of every soul-his whole record of life will b put in front of him. |
Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 25 May 2013 at 9:45pm
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First as I mentioned IF Quran is the word of God each Ayat should stand on its own merits...You have mentioned other portions of your holy Book to state that the will of the person determines whether he gets heaven or hell. But Sura 14:4 clearly mentions that Allah sends Astray whom he wills. You acknowledge the will of Allah as being supreme, so then what is the will of man in the face of Allah who can deem to send you astray and to hell. Is there any guarantee that a Muslim is not being led astray by Allah? What is the assurance that you have that Allah will not lead you astray? When a muslim says Ishallah doesnt it mean that the will of Allah be done? What if Allah has willed that you be led astray? In any case the Ayats that you quoted contradict what is said in Sura 14.4, so which part is true...and If One part is false then the Quran can in no way be the Word of God |
Posted By: nothing
Date Posted: 26 May 2013 at 6:40pm
Allah guide to goodness while Satan sent astray. But in Islam Satan only able to do that because God gave him permission. Hence Allah sent them astray. Everything from God, good or bad. Seeing the Qur'an and theology in general from Wahdatul wujud perspective is bit easier. ------------------------------------------------------------ He said: O Iblis! What hindereth thee from falling prostrate before that which I have created with both My hands? Art thou too proud or art thou of the high exalted?(38:75) He said: I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire, whilst him Thou didst create of clay. (38:76) He said: Go forth from hence, for lo! thou art outcast, (38:77) And lo! My curse is on thee till the Day of Judgment.(38:78) He said: My Lord! Reprieve me till the day when they are raised.(38:79) He said: Lo! thou art of those reprieved (38:80) Until the day of the time appointed. (38:81) He said: Then, by Thy might, I surely will beguile them every one, (38:82) |
bronaz wrote:Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 27 May 2013 at 9:01am
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The Christian view is that God permits Satan to tempt but provides all the resources to overcome and conquer temptation. In this Sura 14:4 it clearly mentions he sends astray whom he wills and guides those he wills...According to my understanding The Quran shouild be a guide for all not just some. There is a matter of justice here...allowing a person to be tempted is one thing as long as there is divine help. But there seems to be no divine help for some who are doomed |
Posted By: Usmani
Date Posted: 27 May 2013 at 11:31am
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let's read the Quran in context so that we can better understand what this verse (14:4) is saying Surah 33:67 And they say: Our Lord! Lo! we obeyed our princes and great men, and they misled us from the Way. Surah 61:5 So when they turned away (from the Path of Allah) Allah turned their hearts away (from the Right Path) and Allah guides not the people who are fasiqun (rebellious, disobedient to Allah)." So we see that Allah misguides those wrongdoers who are truly misguided by their own actions that they willingly chose to commit. Allah is omniscient and therefore knows in advance what their FREE WILLED actions will be. Therefore, Allah misguides them. HOWEVER, Allah only misguides those who WILLINGLY commit wrong and have earned to be labeled as disbelievers and go to Hell. ------------- Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds |
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 27 May 2013 at 10:23pm
| in Surah Al Ibrahim ch 14 v 2-Allah,to which heavens and earth belongs will give severe punishment to disbelievers,as I said so many times in my previous posts,that Allah has granted us free will whether to worship him or not,if any person make an effort to know about Islam,in Sha Allah will guide him,as said in Surah Al Ankaboot ch 29 v 69-if U strive in the way of Allah,Allah will open pathways for you,the main thing is the intention in your heart,if someone is offering prayers,doing good deeds without good intentions,his deeds are of no use,that verse is meant for those who don't want to follow commandments of Allah intentionally,if U make effort in the path of Allah,Allah will guide you.the assurance is that if we offer prayers regularly,doing regular charity and good deeds with right intentions,then in Sha Allah we cannot be deviated from right path,Allah has assured a reward for all believing men and women in Surah Al Ahzaab ch 33 v 35.the main thing is patience,Allah wants us to strive in his way with patience.Allah says in surah Al Asra ch 103 v 1-3-With the token of time man is in state of loss except those who have trust in Allah,do good deeds,resorting people to truth,resorting people to patience and perseverance. |
Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 28 May 2013 at 2:51am
| Dear NABA and Usmani....we keep on trying to explain sura 14.4 with references to other parts of the Quran. Let me explain to you my understanding of the word of God...which Quran claims to be....Gods word creates...When God created something...he did not come back later and say that I should not have created that. The word of God each part of it should stand on its own merit. A descriptive passage may be open to interpretation but his word cannot be changed and should be free from any contradiction. Sura 14.4 states very clearly he leads astray who he wills...Every Muslim uses the word Inshallah...meaning if it is the will of God/Allah. If it is his will to lead you astray...what can you do about it.... |
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 29 May 2013 at 10:31pm
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But if U R in constant touch with Allah,Allah will never cause harm to you,yes we might at times think y our prayers are not answered,but Allah never foresakes prayers it takes lot of faith and patience to get our prayers answered,as mentioned in Surah Al Ghaafir ch 40 v 60-Allah says-"call me I will respond to you",those who r refrained from my worship,they will go to hell.so one should pray constantly to get his prayers answered,we say In Sha Allah because we can't predict any future,for eg tomorrow I had to go to any place,and if I just say I will reach it definitely,then it means I m predicting future which is wrong,instead I say in Sha Allah and pray to Allah constantly to reach my destination,and Allah is never unjust to his believers,I will end with the translation of Hindi phrase in india-there is delay from God but not darkness,but we should say Allah answers our prayers at right time,we should not judge the timing of Allah |
Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 30 May 2013 at 12:58am
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NABA... Your belief is contrary to what is written in the Ayat which I have quoted. You say Allah is Just and that he answers prayers...but Sura 14.4 says he sends astray whom he wills. IF Quran is word of God then we have to take literally that some people Allah sends astray whom he wills...it does not say he sends astray those who do not follow the path laid down in the Quran, or disbelieves in Mohammed...it says who he wills which can mean anyone Even a MUSLIM. If you wish to further clarify then that would mean that the Word of God as stated in the Quran is ambiguous and open to interpretation which would then call into question the whole book If you state that this verse is abrogated by another later verse, then you admit there is a contradiction, and my understanding is that there can be no contradiction in the Word of God. This leads me to conclude that Quran being called the Word of God is called into doubt and hence your faith as well. |
Posted By: Usmani
Date Posted: 30 May 2013 at 12:21pm
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Dear Bronaz,
God send his messages for the mankind according to their level of understanding, so we can better understand it. He has all the power to fulfill His wills and He can send the peoples to hell who believe in Him and always try to follow way of His desire and vice versa, who is there to stop Him from doing so. Having said that come to the verse 14:4, here God saying that He send message on their own language so they can better understand it and at the end of the verse it is said And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. As we know God through our Prophet (peace and blessing of God upon Him) and through Quran itself so we found that God is very Kind, loving and gave every chance to repent and come to straight path. So if He wills to do anything, there are some reasons of it and which has played a role in developing His wills. We cannot expect God to do unwise things and unjust with anyone. Quran can only be beneficial for people, those came here for the truth. ------------- Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds |
Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 30 May 2013 at 8:33pm
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"He has all the power to fulfill His wills and He can send the peoples to
hell who believe in Him and always try to follow way of His desire and
vice versa, who is there to stop Him from doing so." So you agree that Allah can send you to hell if he wishes...then why reveal a book such as Quran which is supposed to get you to heaven... |
Posted By: Usmani
Date Posted: 31 May 2013 at 3:44am
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When I was a baby,my father can kill me,but he never did so and take care of me always.
God can send me to hell but He will not, He will send me to heaven because I belive in Him and try to follow His desires. ------------- Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds |
Posted By: Rational
Date Posted: 31 May 2013 at 11:37am
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The Lord hardens the heart and misguides and misleads as He wishes
by Ibn Anwar Many a time Christian missionaries accuse Muslims of believing in a God that misguides and misleads men as He wishes. They will then cite certain verses from the Qur'an that at a glance do seem to convey what they're claiming such as the following verse, "And We never sent a messenger save with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Wise."(14:4) After citing such a verse from the Qur'an they will lay the claim that they are free of any guilt in their disbelief since Allah has chosen to misguide them from Islam. It's a very sly ploy, but there's a Malay proverb that goes 'sepandai pandai tupai melompat akhirnya jatuh juga' which roughly translates into ?as clever as the squirrel jumps it will still fall'. Look at the verse very closely. Does it say that men have no power at all to control his own belief and faith? No, it does not say that. What it does say is that Allah has sent a messenger with ?the language of this folk' which is Arabic so that he might make the message clear for them. What that is saying is that the Prophet s.a.w. was sent as a warner to help guide the people in their own language. However, it is not really the Prophet s.a.w. who guides, but it is ultimately Allah. So glory be to Allah who sends guidance. Tafsir Ma'riful Qur'an says, "Toward the end of the verse it was said that it is for the convenience of the people that Allah Ta'ala has sent His messengers speaking their language, so that they can explain Hi injunctions clearly and satisfactorily. But, it is still beyond human control to bring someone onto the right path. The truth is that it lies in the power of Allah Ta'ala alone. Whom He wills He lets go astray and whom He wills He would give guidance. He is Mighty, and Wise."(Mufti Shafi' Uthmani, Ma'riful Qur'an. Vol. 5, p. 249) The verse isn't denying the self ability to recognise guidance and accept it. It is rather affirming God's sovereignty in all things and that everything has to go through His approval and allowance. It is saying that as Muslim missionaries the Prophets were sent to help guide, but in reality Allah is the one who gives guidance and not them. They are only those who convey. Likewise, today's Muslim missionaries are those who convey the message. That is their job. It is not in their job description to make people convert or actually put guidance into their hearts, but simply to convey and invite them to the truth(Surah Al-Nahl, 125). If the non-Muslim chooses to believe by His own accord then Allah will send His guidance, but if he refuses then misguidance will follow. Thus the Qur'an elsewhere states, "Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place!"(18:29) See also 25:57, 80:11-12 and 73:19. These and other such verses clearly tell us that the individual has the choice and will to believe or disbelieve and Allah will be there to supply either belief or disbelief as He wishes. In addition, I find it rather crude that Christians have the audacity to attempt to debase Islam from the aforementioned angle. This is because their own book, the Bible(s) is replete with verses that show that God misguides, deceives, hardens the heart of people as well as create good and evil as He sees fit. God hardens the heart of people and blinds them so that they will not harken and do mistakes."The LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go."(Exodus 4:21) "But I will harden Pharaoh's heart that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt."(Exodus 7:3) "But the Lord hardened Pharoah's heart, and he would not let them go."(Exodus 10:27) "Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh; yet the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go out of his land."(Exodus 11:10) What happened to Pharoah in the end? He got drowned by Moses' miracle. Shall we then conclude that God's hardening of Pharoah's heart led to his demise? Is God responsible for what happened to Pharoah? Shall we blame God? "Yet to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear."(Deuteronomy 29:4) "Make these people close-minded. Plug their ears. Shut their eyes. Otherwise, they may see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their minds, and return and be healed."(Isaiah 6:10) "Why, O LORD, do You cause us to stray from Your ways And harden our heart from fearing You? Return for the sake of Your servants, the tribes of Your heritage."(Isaiah 63:17) "This is why they could not believe: Isaiah also said, He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, so that they might not perceive with their eyes, and understand with their mind and turn, and I would heal them." (John 12:39-40) "As it is written, "To this day God has put them into deep sleep. Their eyes do not see, and their ears do not hear."(Romans 11:8)
God deceives and afterwards destroys"And if the prophet be deceived and speak a word, I, Jehovah, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel." (Ezekiel 14:9) "For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie. Then all who have not believed the truth but have taken pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned." (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)
God hides things from certain people as it pleases Him."At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from wise and intelligent people and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, because this is what was pleasing to you." (Matthew 11:25-16)
God creates evil/calamity"Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.' "(Isiah 45:7, Young's Literal Translation) "Doesn't evil and good come out of the mouth of the Most High?" (Lamentations 3:38, World English Bible) "For the one living in Maroth is waiting for good: for evil has come down from the Lord to the doorways of Jerusalem." (Micah 1:12, Bible in Basic English) What has happened to the lovey-dovey fair and beautiful God who gave His only begotten son that we often hear Christians peddling on every street corner?!? The Christian missionary must think more than twice before charging the Muslim with the accusation that Allah misguides as He wills and using it as an argument against us lest they damn their own faith. And Allah knows best. http://muslim-responses.com/Yahweh_Misguides/Yahweh_Misguides_ ------------- الله |
Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 31 May 2013 at 8:08pm
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Dear Rational, Thanks for posting your reply which was from a study by Ibn Anwar. No doubt he is a learned person but still rejects the divinity of Christ and the truth revealed in the Gospel. While the arguments offered seem seductively simple, I wish to state the following: At the beginning he says that this verse will be quoted will be quoted by Christian missionaries to state that ALLAH misleads. "However, it is not really the Prophet s.a.w. who guides, but it is ultimately Allah. So glory be to Allah who sends guidance." The verse in question states that Allah guides whom he will astray. Why should one not accept the Quran which you claim to be the word of God literally and depend on someones interpretation to come to any sort of conclusion. In my opinion the words of the Quran...IF they are the word of God take precedence over any interpretation. Next we come to the question, who is the one interpreting it...Has he been given any authority to interepret the Quran. If there is no authority, then anyone can say something contradictory and then you would have to accept that as well. I think my Literal interpretation has more value that some one who twists things to get his point across. We see enough of this in the political arena where the same thing is interpreted in many ways and each claims to be right. The word of God is meant to be taken literally, because that is how God would reveal it, so that there is no ambiguity. Regarding the verses you quoted from the Bible to elevate your position, it is nothing but grandstanding. You can take quotes from any book and reach any conclusion you want based on how good you are at twisting facts. The truth of any Holy Book is proven by some of the fruits that have been born out of it. Christianity still remains the foremost religion of the world, inspite of other religions being promoted by force or other doubtable means. More people have willingly sacrificed their lives for being Christian without offering resistance than from other faiths. The uncorrupt bodies of numerous saints bear testimony that their holy lives, didnt allow their bodies to be corrupted on earth. None of such fruit can be seen from the Quran. |
Posted By: Bismarck
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 10:04pm
For each one are successive [angels] before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah . Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron. Surah 13.11 ---------------------------------------------------------- So, Allah leads farther astray, those already refusing to obey Allah's Authority; whilst guiding those, who do obey ? |
Posted By: Bismarck
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 10:17pm
that seems to be a very scholarly article For sake of avoiding all hints of hypocrisy, the Muslim-touted Gospel of Barnabas seems to include blatant editings. i would be willing to acknowledge, that Christians' Scriptures include minor modifications, to the degree, of the differences, between the Greek Gospel of Matthew, and the original Hebrew-version, known as the Gospel of the Hebrews. I.e., here and there, a few words changed, to suit "practicality". But the GoB seems to include editings, far more blatant. i may mis-understand the importance that Muslims attribute to the GoB, for supporting the Islamic opinion, of the Crucifixion. But, i perceive no value, in ever risking any amount of hypocrisy. Separately, i understand that the Hadith attributed to Ibn Abbas, about the Crucifixion, contradicts the GoB, which portrays the Apostles as initially fooled by the substitution of Judas for Jesus, whereas Ibn Abbas says they all knew, for Jesus openly asked for a volunteer (evidently Judas): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus'_death |
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 18 June 2013 at 1:18pm
| Surah Al zumar ch 39 v 41-Allah says truth is in front of you, either accept it and b successfull or reject it and b astray, this verse clearly signifies the free will, which means choice in our hands I.e we r responsible for our own situation.Allah will guide to those who obey him.remember life is a test (ch 67 v 2 ) in this test we will b responsible for own fate in the hereafter. |
Posted By: Al Saadiqeen21
Date Posted: 26 August 2013 at 4:50pm
The Holy Qur'aan 14 ; 4 , Revealed In The Year 620 A.D. Abrawhawm ( Father of many Nations ) ,
Is speaking about The Heavenly Host Sent , Ones Sent Using The Tongue Of Those Nations ~ Mosheh Sent To The Jacobites . Verse 4 - 8 ,
One must read the Verses before and after in order to get the real Meaning / Overstanding of the Question your asking ! ------------- One doesn't go to school let His / her's mind to die , They go to school so that their mind will come alive . |