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Shaik Speare View Drop Down
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Joined: 16 July 2010
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Points: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shaik Speare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 5:35am
Originally posted by Matt Browne Matt Browne wrote:

The West Bank and Gaza would already be a country recognized by the UN, if all Palestinian leaders acknowledged Israel's right to exist.
Which Israel are the Palestinians supposed to recognise? The Israel of the UN partition plan? The 1949-67 Israel? Or the Israel as it is now? Has Israel ever defined it's borders?
Originally posted by Matt Browne Matt Browne wrote:

Israelis elect hardliners because of the Hamas threat. Palestinians elect Hamas because of the Israeli hardliners.
Israelis have elected hardliners even before Hamas was born.

Edited by Shaik Speare - 17 December 2012 at 5:38am
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2012 at 2:44pm
Well said Matt.
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Matt Browne View Drop Down
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Points: 937 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Browne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2012 at 7:51am
The West Bank and Gaza would already be a country recognized by the UN, if all Palestinian leaders acknowledged Israel's right to exist. The West Bank and Gaza would already be a country if the Israeli government returned to the 1967 borders and made the illegal settlers leave their settlements. Israelis elect hardliners because of the Hamas threat. Palestinians elect Hamas because of the Israeli hardliners. It's called a deadlock. Michael Lerner describes a way out of it.





Edited by Matt Browne - 16 December 2012 at 7:52am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Shaik Speare View Drop Down
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Points: 24 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shaik Speare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2012 at 8:52am
Originally posted by Matt Browne Matt Browne wrote:

As mentioned in the other thread: keep in mind that the majority of Israelis were born after 1948
And a majority of them were imported.
Originally posted by Matt Browne Matt Browne wrote:

have build houses and are now being threatened to leave their houses and be driven into the sea to drown.
Typical hasbara...
Originally posted by Matt Browne Matt Browne wrote:

I agree that the world community could have handled the matter in a better way back in 1948. But we cannot undo the past. Millions of Germans who have not voted for the Nazis and were against their agenda lost their homes in Eastern Europe. Their West German brothers and sisters invited all the millions of refuges and shared their homes. Should the children of these refuges now ask Poles and Romanians and all the others to leave Poland and Romania so that the Germans can go back? The Arab brothers and sisters did not invite the Palestinian refugees and they didn't share their homes. They still don't to this day.
They don't need to, because the UN has promised the Palestinians a state of their own and the right of the refugees to return to their homeland. Now what the World community should do is - implement those resolutions, and by all accounts, that won't bode well for Israel or atleast it's Jewish character. You see, the very foundation of Israel is on shaky grounds.
Originally posted by Matt Browne Matt Browne wrote:

All they do is asking for Israelis to be killed so that Palestinians can go back to what used to be Palestine. That's a pseudovision for the future. That's a recipe for doom.Renaming Israel to Palestine won't work. It could be named Israel-Palestine. There are a lot of countries with hyphens in them. Michael Lerner suggested several models.
Matt, you should stop making hasty generalisations if you are to show yourself as an unbiased observer. All that the Palestinians need to realise their aspirations is the implementation of UN resolutions. Any solution to this issue should prioritise justice, not the wishful thinking and wants of those who happen to have considerable power.
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2012 at 2:42pm
Matt,
the Jews are still collecting money from what was done to them during Holocaust. If they have committed a crime, stole anything (land in this case) they are thief. And a thief does not become clean after death, until the property is returned to its rightful owners, the Palestinians.
I know certain things cannot be undone, like torture or Palestinians, mass murder of innocent villagers, loss of their livestock, their farms, houses, their livelihood, their dreams and so on. But there are ways to do the justice. When a criminal kills an innocent man, we cannot bring back the deceased, but in order to serve justice we punish the killer. The world must unite and punish Israel for it's crime and compensate to the Palestinians for what injustices they have suffered for several generations now.
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Matt Browne View Drop Down
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Points: 937 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Browne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2012 at 6:20am
As mentioned in the other thread: keep in mind that the majority of Israelis were born after 1948 and have build houses and are now being threatened to leave their houses and be driven into the sea to drown.

I agree that the world community could have handled the matter in a better way back in 1948. But we cannot undo the past. Millions of Germans who have not voted for the Nazis and were against their agenda lost their homes in Eastern Europe. Their West German brothers and sisters invited all the millions of refuges and shared their homes. Should the children of these refuges now ask Poles and Romanians and all the others to leave Poland and Romania so that the Germans can go back? The Arab brothers and sisters did not invite the Palestinian refugees and they didn't share their homes. They still don't to this day. All they do is asking for Israelis to be killed so that Palestinians can go back to what used to be Palestine. That's a pseudovision for the future. That's a recipe for doom.

Renaming Israel to Palestine won't work. It could be named Israel-Palestine. There are a lot of countries with hyphens in them. Michael Lerner suggested several models.
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2012 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by Matt Browne Matt Browne wrote:


Originally posted by whitelion553 whitelion553 wrote:



gaza and palestine �is belong to all muslems and we must be backer of our brothers and sisters
It belongs to both Israelis and Palestinians, don't you think? If someone thinks all Israelis should disappear, he or she is no better than those Israelis who think all Palestinians should disappear.


Of course it belongs to Palestinian state, in which Jews can live as lived before, Christians the same way.
Most of the Jews that came to the area after forming of state of Israel were actually came from abroad. After the break up of Soviet Union thousands of Jews (many were not even Jews anymore) were given instant citizenship upon arrival while those Palestinians who have lived there for generations could not return to their homeland after being force out. What kind of standards are that?
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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nothing View Drop Down
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Points: 416 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nothing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2012 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by Matt Browne Matt Browne wrote:

It belongs to both Israelis and Palestinians, don't you think?

So whatever the remaining land that is not called "Israel" today still considered shared property? Or which one are you referring to?
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