True Muslim and resisting Western hedonis

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 mohammad wrote:

Dear b9500

B: Greetings dear Mohammad of Pakistan.  I wish peace upon you and your family.  Be blessed with God's hand..

i would like to reply your initical / first post
b9500 Wrote Quote
(Is someone who kills innocent people a true Muslim?
Is someone who defends a professing Muslim who kills innocent people a true Muslim or holding to true Muslim principles?
Is
someone who defends the cause of the professing Muslim who kills in the
name of the cause innocent people, whatever that cause may be, a true
Muslim or holding to true Muslim principles?
If these ones are not
Muslims, or not holding to true Muslim principles, then why should the
Ummah be concerned about unity with them? )
R
:-    Surely being a Human / Muslim we can not support
the innocent killers, but it also calls the query that why they
(Nowadays mostly blaming for such type of attack are the Muslim groups)
do like this, when we trying to search the answer of this �Why�  then  we
can understand. In the current circumstances the answer of this �Why�
is very clear. When the world powers & who called themselves most
civilized will not hesitate to take the life of the innocent people on
the name of war against terrorism including children, women in
Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Kashmir and many other part of the world,
When they will not feel shame what they did with the prisoners, When
they try to satisfy their nations with this argument that �we are
fighting the war broad from our cities for the safety of our people�,
When they feel happiness after devastation of the cities with the usage
of  high homicide technology. 

B:
How many civilians have the US killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? 
Please provide links and proofs...Were Iraq and Afghanistan better off
under their former leaders or under elected leaders and (more) freedom
going forward?

So
tell me what�s wrong, if a single bomb blast in their cities, they
start the crying, if they love with their life, why they are not
thinking that where they(Americans / Westerns) are killing the people,
may they also want to live. Are they not human? 

B:
Of course, we're all humans.  One key question - what is the
difference between the criminal - Osama, AQ, Zarqawi, Saddam, Mullah
Omar - and those nations arrayed against said criminals who are trying
to bring them into custoday (the police forces, if you will)?  Why
don't I hear you blasting on the Northern Alliance or the Kurds who
scuffled and opposed Saddam and caused certain deaths and such by their
actions?

Actually such attack remind them a lesson of these countries that if
you will do wrong in any part of the world you must be ready for it in
your home.

B: What does this mean?  Are
you justifying killing innocent civilians?  Why should we justify
a criminals acts with some esoteric debates on politics and
policies.  Don't get me wrong, we need to debate and discuss US
policy or Syrian policy or Lebanese policy or Pakistani or Israel or
French policies...but in the context of that, is intentionally
murdering civilians for any cause justified?  I don't disagree
with you that actions and policies have their consequences - but we
can, as good people, as people of faith, NEVER justify or even
rationalize, the murder of innocents for any cause.

b9500 wrote Quote
(The Ummah should not be concerned about unity with people that do
and say things that are not holding to true Muslim principles.  In
fact they should break unity with such ones. Unity should be had and
promoted among those holding to true Muslim principles.)
R:-
As well as my opinion concern that we should support the such type of
people those are trying to reply the cruelty of the Americans &
Westerns, 

B:
Please tell me, because I want to know what you're thinking Mohammad
and what you mean - tell me specifically what you mean by the cruelty
of Americans..

because
when they (American & Westerns) will also pay the life of un
faulted citizens, then may they realize the pain of those innocent
people who are slaughtered by them in other part of the world like Iraq
etc. 

B:
Again, let's not talk in generalities, let's be extremely
specific.  I can talk to you about Muslim, so called, murderers
shooting children in the back in Beslan or blowing Muslim children to
smitherines in Baghdad (!?) to try to oppose 'the powers that
be?'  How sick and heinous is this?  You are surely not
defending these, are you Mohammad?

Then also may their people put pressure on their nonsense rulers stop the slaughters of innocent people campaign in the world.

B: Please tell me specifically which innocent people the US is slaughtering.

b9500 wrote Quote
I
don't like to hear that people are being killed - but such conflicts
often result when people hold adamently to extreme type views - such as
supporting sermons and teaching that advocate resisting the west by
killing the innocents in the west instead of resisting the west by
showing the superior way of faith and life to the western way of life..

R: Yes no body want or support the violence, everyone wanted the peace. But how? 

B: Exactly.

You  should pass this advice to the
Americans & Westerns, who are follow the aggressive policies to
stop the killing of innocent people on the name terrorism. 

B:
Please be specific...if the Muslim world has addressed well the problem
of extremism and terror, then the Western armies would have no reason
to be there.  Isn't that true?  But they haven't and the
Western armies are there.  They have taken pretty great care to
minimize killing and the minimize civilian casualties to be sure - but
some civilian deaths have definitely occurred.  But, did you
expect America to just not respond to 9/11?  How, can Muslims
expect such pie in the sky type of results?  Isn't this the result
of turning away and not confronting extreme ideas propogating within
Islam as much as it is the problems with US or Israeli (or any other
nation's policies?)

If Islam is reflective of perfection, than to what degree do Muslims
have a great burden of responsibility to confront extremism within
their midst that would claim that murdering innocent people, even
children is legit - for ANY cause?

Right now this is very important that American & Westerns review their extremist polices towards Muslim. 

B:
But Muhammad, can you see that many, many people feel that those who
just turn away from Muslim (so called) extremism, help to create the
atmosphere for American policing?  Why don't you, and the Muslims,
take care to police themselves better - and we won't have to, nor have
the reason to, nor have the justification to, have to step into the
breach.

If they will not keep off invaded campaign of the Muslim countries,
then the peace in the world will be a dream, can not become a reality,
resistance blaze can be raid the Americans and Westerns cities also. 

B: What exactly are you suggesting?  I don't see Americans destroying cities...be specific.  Thanks...  