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Gibbs 
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Joined: 29 April 2009
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Points: 939
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 Posted: 19 September 2010 at 10:20am |
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Don't agree just to agree. Earlier you joked about the definition so its hard for me to believe you
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schmikbob
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Joined: 27 June 2010
Location: United States
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Points: 526
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Posted: 19 September 2010 at 8:24am |
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OK Gibbs, I will agree with this definition/description of flag burning.
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Gibbs
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Posted: 18 September 2010 at 11:12pm |
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No retalitory violent act is justified. All I am saying is that it is possible to be violent or perpetuate violence through non physical.means. the voodoo example is one. Similar to the flag burning. Like I said its another way of saying I can't hurt you physically so I will hurt you symbolically by attacking your ideals or attacking your image
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schmikbob
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Joined: 27 June 2010
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Points: 526
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Posted: 18 September 2010 at 7:18pm |
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Gibbs, I absolutely agree that burning the Quran in this country can cause members of Islam to become angry. However, does this symbolic act justify whatever violence is perpetrated in response? As for your comment about voodoo and sticking pins in dolls that is also a symbolic act, it does no harm to anyone, and while disturbing on many levels, is absolutely protected speech and is not a crime.
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Gibbs
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Points: 939
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Posted: 18 September 2010 at 7:39am |
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Schmuckbob
I think you fail to understand that despite what we think are harmless acts or acts without any legal transgression they can be inferred as violent acts or in this case terrorist acts. I disagree with calling this an act of terrorism. Terrorism I believe along the lines of how the U.S defines it, is an act that not only endagers the lives of people, but an act or acts that instills fear. Is book burning free speech? Yes. Is it meaningful dialogue? No. Doesn't matter if this is an obscure individual the fact that he has rallied so many people including those that are on his side made him popular. His act may not be violent in the way a mugger is violent to a victim but what I mean violence in the sense of symbolism. For example his act basically means he can't do harm to Muslims for fear of committing a crime, or transgressing free speech. So the next best thing to harm Muslims is to harm their holy book. Hence, a violent act. You can do something symbolic as that his intent was to do harm to the ideals and beliefs of a people which consequently incite violence. Flag burning is free speech and many Afghans did that when they learned of this pastor. They (Afghans) are not physically harming me but they are harming the ideals of what America stands for in the flag. Sorry its a more philosophical approach. Now you are welcome to disagree but if you don't get it its hopeless. If you really don't get it think of voodoo and sticking pins in a doll
Edited by Gibbs - 18 September 2010 at 7:50am
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schmikbob
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Joined: 27 June 2010
Location: United States
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Points: 526
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Posted: 17 September 2010 at 11:38am |
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Oh no, Peacemaker, not you too! I just had a little conversation with Gibbs who tried to call this flag burning a form of violence, symbolic violence he maintained. You personally can call it whatever you want, just so "intellectual terrorism" and "symbolic violence" do not become crimes. Maybe we ought to call it a thought crime and have a symbolic trial and hand out a symbolic sentence.
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peacemaker
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Joined: 29 December 2005
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Points: 3057
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Posted: 17 September 2010 at 10:41am |
 schmikbob wrote:
I do, however, agree with the Imam that this might be considered an incitement to terrorism. |
Then can this act be termed as "intellectual terrorism�?
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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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schmikbob
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Joined: 27 June 2010
Location: United States
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Points: 526
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Posted: 17 September 2010 at 9:34am |
The imam of the Grand Mosque in Makkah on Friday said that a US pastor�s threat to burn copies of the Holy Qur�an was an act of terrorism and an incitement to terrorism.
Can anyone defend this statement?? Is book burning by an obscure pastor in the United States now considered an act of terrorism?? It is no wonder that so many international panels have utterly failed to agree on a definition of terrorism when we have statements like this. I do, however, agree with the Imam that this might be considered an incitement to terrorism. I do hope that this is merely his observation and not his wish.
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