IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > General Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Kashmir  What is Islam What is Islam  Donate Donate
  FAQ FAQ  Quran Search Quran Search  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Kashmir

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
ZamanH View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Joined: 21 July 2004
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 448
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZamanH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Kashmir
    Posted: 21 August 2005 at 12:07am
Originally posted by human human wrote:

I did not want to get involved in discussions on faith, because I have done it many  times already, and invariably it leads to acrimony and the theme that I am trying to present gets lost.

I will have to admit to that.

Quote I beleive religion is a very personal matter. Personal, not in the sense that I want to keep it private. Personal in the sense that my communication with God is a very unique and intimate. I choose my own way to realize God. I do not believe God will ever send any other human beings to communicate with me or anybody else. If God is what everybody says IT is, then IT does not need ITs own creations to communicate with us.

There are many things you can't know, even if you try to know about them; what makes you think you can know about Allah through your own conjectures. And why won't Allah explicitly tell us about Himself, if He exists.

Quote I would like to think that morals change along with times and circumstances and this has borne out by many passages within Quran itself (Prophet marrying more than four wives, prophet marrying a little girl of nine, God tolerating slavery, if not outright approving it).

There are strong reasons to belive yout analogy is incorrect but I won't delve in to them right now.

Quote If there is any reason at all for me to turn to religion, it is the spirituality. Spirituality is what connects us to the others in this world and perhaps God. Historically, saints of all religions made major discoveries regarding our spiritual nature and fortunately or unfortunately their wisdom is hidden in obscure texts and practices. It is my endevour to read those texts and find the true meaning of spirituality, meditation, true nature of self etc.

I would like to quote a very beautiful post by a member here:-

Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

When you draw a picture, you have two choices. Draw the outlines of the
subject, or draw the outline of the background and let the subject reveal
itself.

Likewise, one can start with science and describe its' outer limits as it
approaches the source of life, or start with scripture and trace it out as it
approaches human experience.

A good drawing uses both techniques, as does good theology.

Quote I totally reject the concept that a man is a sinner by nature. I reject the concept that God keeps account of all the goods and evils that I do and will reward or punish me accordingly on some future date. I believe that God is beyond all such descriptions and human nature. In fact I believe God is not even sentient in the sense that you and I are, but a cosmic consciousness that has always existed and guides the time and space according to some yet to be discovered rules. For the same reasons I reject any rituals that I have to perform in order to reach "Jannat" I must do this or that ritual (such as fasting, pilgrimage, yagya or whatever).

I am not a believer in the idea that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. My reasons for religiousity are different from yours, and that is rightly so. Every individual should seek nirvana in their own unique way. Note that this principle doesn't necessarily sacrifice morals, because I keep morals and justice out of religion. I think this basically makes my ideas totally incompatible with Islam and Quran, because Quran is supposed to have prescriptions all aspects of my life and after-life.


Nice to know, that you believe in the life hereafter. Still I disagree with what you say. Since God is same for all of us, why do you think nature of  our relationship with him should be different. If we differ on God, either you are correct or me; but not both of us. Because each of us don't have our "own" God, there is only one God for all of us.

Quote Having said all that, I will still go ahead and attempt to read. I am sure there are some good things I can pick up there. I am sorry if I am unable to see the light that you want to show me, but that's the nature of the beast: spirituality is a light that you must discover on your own.

Regards,

Human


Thanks for your time,

Zaman.
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
Back to Top
human View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Joined: 25 July 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote human Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2005 at 11:15pm

Originally posted by ZamanH ZamanH wrote:


I hope this helps. I will send you more links, but i have got to go now.

Bye

Thank you Zaman for your concern. I will attempt to read the links you have posted when the time permits. I did not want to get involved in discussions on faith, because I have done it many  times already, and invariably it leads to acrimony and the theme that I am trying to present gets lost. Since, you are so concerned about my well being, I would go out on a limb and explain my stand on religion.

I beleive religion is a very personal matter. Personal, not in the sense that I want to keep it private. Personal in the sense that my communication with God is a very unique and intimate. I choose my own way to realize God. I do not believe God will ever send any other human beings to communicate with me or anybody else. If God is what everybody says IT is, then IT does not need ITs own creations to communicate with us.

For me morality is a human concept. Justice is a human concept. These essentials of humanity are not to be derived from any books or scriptures that were written thousands of years ago. By definition, "holy" books like Quran are static because they are immutable. Such philosophy is not for me. I would like to think that morals change along with times and circumstances and this has borne out by many passages within Quran itself (Prophet marrying more than four wives, prophet marrying a little girl of nine, God tolerating slavery, if not outright approving it).

If there is any reason at all for me to turn to religion, it is the spirituality. Spirituality is what connects us to the others in this world and perhaps God. Historically, saints of all religions made major discoveries regarding our spiritual nature and fortunately or unfortunately their wisdom is hidden in obscure texts and practices. It is my endevour to read those texts and find the true meaning of spirituality, meditation, true nature of self etc.

I totally reject the concept that a man is a sinner by nature. I reject the concept that God keeps account of all the goods and evils that I do and will reward or punish me accordingly on some future date. I believe that God is beyond all such descriptions and human nature. In fact I believe God is not even sentient in the sense that you and I are, but a cosmic consciousness that has always existed and guides the time and space according to some yet to be discovered rules. For the same reasons I reject any rituals that I have to perform in order to reach "Jannat" I must do this or that ritual (such as fasting, pilgrimage, yagya or whatever).

I am not a believer in the idea that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. My reasons for religiousity are different from yours, and that is rightly so. Every individual should seek nirvana in their own unique way. Note that this principle doesn't necessarily sacrifice morals, because I keep morals and justice out of religion. I think this basically makes my ideas totally incompatible with Islam and Quran, because Quran is supposed to have prescriptions all aspects of my life and after-life.

Having said all that, I will still go ahead and attempt to read. I am sure there are some good things I can pick up there. I am sorry if I am unable to see the light that you want to show me, but that's the nature of the beast: spirituality is a light that you must discover on your own.

Regards,

Human

Back to Top
ZamanH View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Joined: 21 July 2004
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 448
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZamanH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2005 at 10:43pm
and this too. I made a mistake posting it here.
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
Back to Top
ZamanH View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Joined: 21 July 2004
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 448
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZamanH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2005 at 9:34pm

And also, this.

I wish you good health and best of luck,
Zaman.
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
Back to Top
ZamanH View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Joined: 21 July 2004
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 448
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZamanH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2005 at 9:32pm

I hope this helps. I will send you more links, but i have got to go now.

Bye
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
Back to Top
human View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Joined: 25 July 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote human Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2005 at 9:16pm

Originally posted by ZamanH ZamanH wrote:

By the way Human, have you read the Quran??

Not much. I have read some verses at random, but it is difficult to read it, because either the translation is not good, or in general such books are boring. I have also tried to read the bible, and every time I try it, I get bored to tears. I guess I need somebody's interpretation which is more interesting and better explains the concepts better.

Human

Back to Top
ZamanH View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Joined: 21 July 2004
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 448
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZamanH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2005 at 8:13pm
By the way Human, have you read the Quran??
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
Back to Top
ZamanH View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar
Joined: 21 July 2004
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 448
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZamanH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2005 at 6:08am
Originally posted by human human wrote:

India has welcomed and assimilated many cultures over several millennia. Islam is no exception. Instead of being the bone of contention between India and Pakistan, Kashmir can become the gateway for trade, travel and cultural exchange and for even better things in our life times. I am a die-hard optimist.

Human

Let me put it this way - I envy your optimism.

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.