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misunderstaning islam? |
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Akhe Abdullah 
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Male Joined: 19 November 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1252 |
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 Posted: 23 October 2009 at 1:56pm |
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Akhe Abdullah
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Posted: 23 October 2009 at 1:58pm |
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[QUOTE=Gibbs]the point is in the U.S. why should I repent for exercising free speech.
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Akhe Abdullah
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Posted: 23 October 2009 at 2:07pm |
 Showing some respect for somebody besides yourself and what you think and or believe.
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Gibbs
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Posted: 24 October 2009 at 11:36am |
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Abdullah I never said this was about saying what you want. Of course there are limits to speech and in fact, I believe I did mention that people should say whatever they want as long as that speech doesn't cause harm. As far as your example you said:
I live in the U.S born and raised and had my days in a court room before,Do you know what the penalty for treason is or use to be?I believe its death or life in prison I forget,(So much for saying whatever you want).but when someone doesnt what to go to trail in the U.S courts they cop a plea,For what?
First off, the penalty of treason is a lot different than the issue of free speech. I believe if you sell vital (classified) information to another government (which could directly or indirectly harm the United States) that may be considered treason. Or if you defect to another gov't (as a soldier) and fight against your former country this is considered treason, because the actions alone go beyond the act of speaking an opinion. these examples does not constitute fre speech it constitutes an opportunistic individual. So again, this is why your example of "your days in the courtroom" was a bad one. You cannot be tried for treason if you speak out against the United States, Jesus Christ, or Barack Obama.
It isn't treason if you burn the U.S. flag in front of a gov't office. This is considered free speech. BTW if you "cop-a-plea" you are admitting guilt so I'm not sure what you meant there. Edited by Gibbs - 24 October 2009 at 11:38am |
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Sign*Reader
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Joined: 02 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3352 |
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Posted: 24 October 2009 at 3:14pm |
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Gibbs/beliver:
I can see the thread is wearing off course, the so called believer posted this video about UK Muslims youth responding to a racist Dutch politician Geert Wilders who I see are the transplanted bloom of British imperialism with one problem that they are real lovers of Mhmd which their parents were not...And that aspect has become a problem for the conniving Brits... Britain had blasphemy laws that protected the Anglicanism and the royalty so it should not be lost if you look at it in the local perspective...that if the Anglicanism is dying doesn't mean it could be an open season to let Wilders blaspheme Mhmd(s) with his lovers abound on its soil...If he intends to wave his fist in their faces then there could be consequences for his grievous provocation...He has issues with Dutch immigrants that he should debate as such and not open fronts he can't control... You should not forget Dutch do have their own nefarious past and they need not open imperialistic can of worms...otherwise they would need a bigger can to contain it The free speech doesn't mean crying fire in a crowded theater as Justice Holmes said... If someone can't have an opinion on holocaust in UK (David Irving sent to jail)cuz it hurts a relentless race by the same token the Brits should keep the likes of Wilders collared for the sake of being good neighbors ... But if you give a hoot that they are part of the big hegemonic scheme, through anti Mhmdn flame throwing and its reactions to use to their advantage otherwise how can they keep the wars of neo colonialism alive in ME and Afpak... Don't forget there was a time the same crowd waged an Opium War on Chinese but they learned to fight back in the long run and never looked back! Edited by Sign*Reader - 24 October 2009 at 3:28pm |
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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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martha
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Joined: 30 October 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1140 |
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Posted: 25 October 2009 at 1:12am |
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(Hi Gibbs,
Full of Hopes it is my opinion that any living deity that exercises dominance over this universe is beyond religion, race, gender etc.
You know, Mohandas Ghandi said the following.
I think it is a good lesson for us all to not be so wrapped up in following the rites and rituals of any religion that we lose the basics of humanity. The basics are a must... So we can elaborate on the basics here. We should not intentionally harm others, we should treat everyone as equals regardless. We should set an example. We should evaluate our actions on a daily basis...are we doing things to please ourself only? We often discuss these points. )
As regarding to free speech and the topic in hand. People often think it is new to our society. Certainly we act in this way...to such an extent we have become selfish I think. We demand this and that every day...Human Rights laws have made it easier for the minority to speak out. And rightly so. BUt have we taken it to the extremes?
Let us consider the words of John Milton ,several centuries back, for a minute.
He said-
'a nation's unity is created through blending individual differences rather than imposing homogeneity from above; that the ability to explore the fullest range of ideas on a given issue was essential to any learning process and truth cannot be arrived upon unless all points of view are first considered; and that by considering free thought, censorship acts to the detriment of material progress.'
So if we excercise our rights to freedom of speech then we should allow all others to do the same. That comes at a price unfortunately. If we don't agree with an individual or a certain group of people it does not give us the right to impose or restrict.
Only this week the leader of the BNP(Nick Griffin) was included for the first time in a British political tv show. There was outrage amongst some/many ( depending how you personally view it) There were demonstrations outside BBC house. Inside the studio he was verbally rounded on by an audience consisting of British people from all backgrounds. Ehnic groups stood firm on their idealologies to rapturous applause from the studio and people viewing from hom.They after all represent a large proportion of the UK. Nick Griffin had an opposite reaction to the one he expected. Most are outraged by the man in the UK..however by the following day he had also gained some support from new followers. We have to accept this result. People choose what they want.
Examine Milton's words further here. He also argued that 'if the facts are laid bare, truth will defeat falsehood in open competition, but this cannot be left for a single individual to determine. According to Milton, it is up to each individual to uncover their own truth; no one is wise enough to act as a censor for all individuals.'
Noam Chomsky states that: "If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Stalin and Hitler, for example, were dictators in favor of freedom of speech for views they liked only. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise."
Truth is yet to see realisation in British Society. BY that it does not mean imposition of any religion,rather it should refer to basic moral codes followed by all people towards all humanity. It will take until another generation before we see the affects of freedom of speech in todays Britain. Until that time we all do as we believe. It is an ongoing progression. BUt until then there will be disharmony. The best people can do in this crazy situation is check their inner self before speaking out and acting on it. Edited by martha - 25 October 2009 at 1:15am |
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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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martha
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Posted: 25 October 2009 at 1:23am |
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Watch the program for yourself and decide on Nick Griffin leader of British National Party
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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Akhe Abdullah
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Posted: 26 October 2009 at 11:57am |
Edited by Akhe Abdullah - 27 October 2009 at 12:15pm |
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Gibbs wrote: