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Akhe Abdullah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2009 at 9:43pm
[QUOTE=Natassia] I came across plenty of commentary regarding 9:29.� The people of the Book are to have their authority wrested from them by the Islamic armies and they are to be subjected to the humiliation of the jizya[QUOTE]We already discussed Jizyah tax in another topic you dont fight you pay, simply get over it.




Edited by Akhe Abdullah - 17 August 2009 at 10:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2009 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by Natassia Natassia wrote:

Sura 9 is not about self-defense,Secondly, if sura 9 was really about self-defense, there would have been no stipulation of a 4 month waiting period.� According to 2:217, Muslims may fight in self-defense even during the sacred month.�
Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Fighting (and striving) in the ca'use of Allah] [Kabah:fighting at] [Masjid al Haram] [Months]


2:217 (Y. Ali) They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.
Natassia,what are you trying to say?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Natassia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2009 at 7:10am
[QUOTE=Akhe Abdullah]
Originally posted by Natassia Natassia wrote:

I came across plenty of commentary regarding 9:29.  The people of the Book are to have their authority wrested from them by the Islamic armies and they are to be subjected to the humiliation of the jizya[QUOTE]We already discussed Jizyah tax in another topic you dont fight you pay, simply get over it.


 
You missed this part:
 
The people of the book are to have their authority wrested from them by the Islamic armies...
 
Do you understand what that means?  No?  That's okay, Maududi will explain it for you:
 
Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an
 
[29] Fight with those from among the people of the Book, who do not believe in Allah nor in the Last Day;26 who do not make unlawful that which Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful,27 and do not adopt the Right way as their way. (Fight with them) until they pay Jizyah with their own hands and are humbled.28

26Though the people of the Book professed to believe in Allah and the Hereafter, in fact they believed in neither. For only that person really believes in Allah who acknowledges Him as the only One God and the only One Lord, and does not associate with Him any other, whatsoever, in His Being, in His characteristics, in His rights and in His powers and authority. But according to this definition of shirk both the Christians and the Jews were guilty of shirk as has been made plain in the verses that follow: therefore their profession of belief in Allah was meaningless. Likewise they did not really believe in the Hereafter, in spite of the fact that they believed in Resurrection. For it is not enough: one must also believe that on that Day absolute justice will be done on the basis of one's belief and actions. One should also believe that no ransom and no expiation and no 'spiritual' relationships with any 'saint' shall be of any avail on that Day. It is absolutely meaningless to believe in the Hereafter without this. And the Jews and the Christians had polluted their faiths because they believed that such things would protect them against justice on that Day.

27The second reason why Jihad should be waged against them is that they did not adopt the Law sent down by Allah through His Messenger. 

28This is the aim of Jihad with the Jews and the Christians and it is not to force them to become Muslims and adopt the `Islamic Way of Life.' They should be forced to pay Jizyah in order to put an end to their independence and supremacy so that they should not remain rulers and sovereigns in the land. These powers should be wrested from them by the followers of the true Faith, who should assume the sovereignty and lead others towards the Right Way, while they should become their subjects and pay jizyah.  Jizyah is paid by those non-Muslims who live as Zimmis (proteges) in an Islamic State, in exchange for the security and protection granted to them by it. This is also symbolical of the fact that they themselves agree to live in it as its subjects. This is the significance of "..... they Pay jizyah with their own hands," that is, "with full consent so that they willingly become the subjects of the Believers, who perform the duty of the vicegerents of Allah on the earth. "

At first this Command applied only to the Jews and the Christians. Then the Holy Prophet himself extended it to the Zoroastrians also. After his death, his Companions unanimously applied this rule to all the non-Muslim nations outside Arabia.

This is jizyah " of which the Muslims have been feeling apologetic during the last two centuries of their degeneration and there are still some people who continue to apologize for it. But the Way of Allah is straight and clear and does not stand in need of any apology to the rebels against Allah. Instead of offering apologies on behalf of Islam for the measure that guarantees security of life, property and faith to those who choose to live under its protection, the Muslims should feel proud of such a humane law as that of jizyah. For it is obvious that the maximum freedom that can be allowed to those who do not adopt the Way of Allah but choose to tread the ways of error is that they should be tolerated to lead the life they like. That is why the Islamic State offers them protection, if they agree to live as its Zimmis by paying jizyah, but it cannot allow that they should remain supreme rulers in any place and establish wrong ways and impose them on others. As this state of things inevitably produces chaos and disorder, it is the duty of the true Muslims to exert their utmost to bring to an end their wicked rule and bring them under a righteous order.

As regards the question, "What do the non-Muslims get in return for Jizyah " it may suffice to say that it is the price of the freedom which the Islamic State allows them in following their erroneous ways, while living in the jurisdiction of Islam and enjoying its protection. The money thus collected is spent in maintaining the righteous administration that gives them the freedom and protects their rights. This also serves as a yearly reminder to them that they have been deprived of the honor of paying Zakat in the Way of Allah, and forced to pay jizyah instead as a price of following the ways of error. 

You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. (John 5:39-40)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Natassia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2009 at 7:26am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by Natassia Natassia wrote:

Sura 9 is not about self-defense,Secondly, if sura 9 was really about self-defense, there would have been no stipulation of a 4 month waiting period.  According to 2:217, Muslims may fight in self-defense even during the sacred month. 
Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Fighting (and striving) in the ca'use of Allah] [Kabah:fighting at] [Masjid al Haram] [Months]


2:217 (Y. Ali) They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.
Natassia,what are you trying to say?
 
I am trying to say that it is illogical to expect me to believe sura 9 is only about self-defense.  The context of those verses is not about self-defense; it's about aggressive fighting against pagans and the people of the Book.
 
If Muslims were actively being persecuted by pagans, Jews, and Christians then sura 9 would never have been revealed because there would have been no need for it.
 
Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an
 
[9:1-2] This is a declaration1 of immunity (from obligations) by Allah and His Messenger to those mushriks with whom you had made treaties:2 "You are free to move about in the land for four months more:3 but you should know that you cannot frustrate the Will of Allah, and that Allah will degrade the rejecters of the Truth."
 
3 The respite of four months from the tenth of Zil-Haj (the date of the proclamation) to the tenth of Rabi'-uth-thani; was granted to give time to the mushriks so that they should consider their position carefully and decide whether to make preparation for war or to emigrate from the country or to accept Islam.
 
In other words, at the time of this revelation the mushriks were not at war with the Muslims.
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. (John 5:39-40)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Natassia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2009 at 7:29am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by Natassia Natassia wrote:

Sura 9 is not about self-defense.[
9:1 (Y. Ali) A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Al Tawbah:The Repentenceor Bara'ah(The Disavowal) Intro.Treaties with those Pagans who have treacherously broken their terms are denounced.but four months'time is given for adjustments or repentence.Pagans to be excluded from the sacred Mosues.Infidelity to be fought(9:1-29 and C.93)                                                    The People of the Book have obscured the light of Allah,but the Truth of Allah must prevail over all.We must be ready to fight for the Faith that is in us:otherwise we shall be unworthy to uphold Allah's banner,and He will raise other people in our place(9:30-42 and C.94)[ The Hypocrites and their double dealing:their evil ways pointed out.Their punishment will be as sure as the blessing of the righteous(9:43-72 and C. 95All evil should be resisted,unless there is repentence:falsehood is not content with breach of faith but mocks all good:it should not be envied but shunned(9:73-99, and C 94)To make a long story short Surah 9 AlTawbah is about repentanceAl Tawbah is also a warning thats why it doesnt start with BismillahThere's alot you dont know about The Qur'an just because you read dont mean you understand thats you're first mistake,you will do better if you just keep to asking questions and quit acting like you know what you talking about.
 
Where do you get your information from?  Your own personal feelings and opinions?  Are are you honestly referring to the Tafsir in order to understand the TRUE meanings?
 
Because I refer to the Islamic writings to keep things in context and explain the true meanings.
 
I provide sources and citations.
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. (John 5:39-40)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Natassia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2009 at 7:30am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by Natassia Natassia wrote:

You're right, I guess.  Forced conversions don't happen anymore.  Just several hundred years ago.  And those perpetrators weren't really Muslims anyway.
Several African Slaves were robbed of there freedom and religion(Islam) when they were brought to America and made to be Christians,which started a tremendous cycle throughout generations. hows that for force?True story,To be forced to do anything against your will is terrible no matter who's doing it.
 
Red herring
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. (John 5:39-40)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2009 at 7:43am
The Qur'an shall be a means of salvation for the one who reads and act upon it;otherwise it would be an evidence against those who neither LEARN it or act upon it.May Allah save and guide us.(Ameen) (Nawawi,Mirqat-ul-Mafatih)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2009 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Natassia Natassia wrote:

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by Natassia Natassia wrote:

You're right, I guess.� Forced conversions don't happen anymore.� Just several hundred years ago.� And those perpetrators weren't really Muslims anyway.
Akhe Abdullah]Several African Slaves were robbed of there freedom and religion(Islam) when they were brought to America and made to be Christians,which started a tremendous cycle throughout generations. hows that for force?True story,To be forced to do anything against your will is terrible no matter who's doing it.



�

Red herring
δίκοπο μαχαίρι Troll

Edited by Akhe Abdullah - 18 August 2009 at 2:17pm
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