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Western Values and Muslim Community

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Iftikhar View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 February 2009 at 1:53pm
Salaam
 
The western "values" suggest equality and freedom for all, that means society must allow religious freedom. The Christians and Jews have Church/ Jewish schools as well as kosher meat, yet when Muslims simply ask for the very same treatment,the Islamphobic secular right wing jump up and down screaming that somehow western values have been attacked.
 
The Jews throught out the western world have their own religious courts. Christians have been enjoying the right to be married in Church. Muslims should have the same right to get married in Masajid as well as they need Sharia Courts, dealing in marriage, civil matters and divorce.
 
It is easy to say" Go back to where you came from",but do not forget that British Muslims are actually born and educated here. They are in the unenviable position of trying to combine two diffent worlds. That is no easy.
 
Multiculturalism is not about separation, ghettoisation or balkanisation. It is, instead, a recognition of both diversity and the need for common ground, mutual respect,and cultural engagement.
 
Muslims all over the world never opposed English as a language what they did was opposition of the Western culture and their system of education. In Pakistan, the medium of instruction is Urdu and English and the official language is both English and Urdu. Pakistan is going to send English teachers to Korea for the teaching of English language.
 
Muslim parents would like their children to be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity.
 
Majority of Muslim children leave schools with low grades because state schools with monolingual teachers are not capable of teaching English to bilingual children.At the same time, they need to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.
 
I am concerned with the education of the Muslim children. It is nothing to do with integration or segregation. Those state as well as Church schools where Muslim children are in majority, in my opinion, may be designated as Muslim community schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models.
 
Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.  
Iftikhar Ahmad
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
 
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ops155 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ops155 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2009 at 3:47pm
I can agree with most of what you said up until this part:
 
 
"Majority of Muslim children leave schools with low grades because state schools with monolingual teachers are not capable of teaching English to bilingual children.At the same time, they need to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. "
 
 
That is the problem. Our STATE schools do not teach religion and just like with Christians or Jews you have to go to a PRIVATE school if you want it talored to your religion. This is not the first thread about taxpayer dollars going to religous schools yet everytime I point this out everyone ignores it. Why keep asking if you already have the answer?
 
So are you saying our teachers should have to speak every language in the world so if a couple students can't speak english they can still be taught? It is not everyone else's problem your child can't speak the language the school uses. Can every teacher in Arab countries speak Chineese, Spanish, American India, etc....?
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believer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2009 at 2:19pm
ops- have you seen some of the signs at Lowes, English and Spanish ?  LOL!  The signs would have to be huge to include everyone.
 
I am from the school of thought that total immersion in a language is the best and quickest way to learn.  Multiculturalism doesn't mean that you don't have to assimilate into the culture of the land.  Otherwise why immigrate?
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2009 at 2:27pm

Many believe the way Muslims kill their animals for food is unkind. 

 
Where I have seen the outrage is when the whole menu is changed and the Christians don't have a choice.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chrysalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2009 at 5:34am
Wha??????
 
What exactly are you saying? and how is it even relevant? and when do they change menus? As for Christians not having a choice, phsuit. I dont think you people follow the Biblical/Mosaic dietary limitations anymore, and will eat virtually anything . . . so why complain? If Jews complain, I can understand - because they atleast do follow thier dietary laws.
 
 
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2009 at 1:43pm
What do you mean what do I mean?  LOL!!
 
simple - People do not want to eat an animal killed in a way that they see as inhumane.
 
There are many Christians that do not eat pork.  I am a vegetarian!
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16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Hayfa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:15pm
Do people not think we need to separate the topic as to the British system and the US system.. i think they are different..

Basically you have different issues in the same post
religion
culture
language
they are intertwined and yet also are separate.

I am from the school of thought that total immersion in a language is the best and quickest way to learn.

Having received my certificate in teaching English as a 2nd language i would say it completely depends upon many factors as to what is the 'best' way. This includes: level of literacy in native language, age, level of education already. It is easy to think this way if one views language strictly as separate from culture. And that is just not so.  And studies do not show that total immersion is the best way to go.. if you are looking at long-term educational options for the majority of people.  One does NOT learn a 2nd  language as they do the first.

Also, people is the US are the least likely to speak more than one language in the world. People in Africa and Asia often speak anywhere from 3-5 languages. And if you do not learn a language by age 12 you will never speak it as a native speaker would. Plus if your brain is active in certain parts if you speak more than one language.

You would think we would want people to be more literate, and speak more languages.. but Americans are behind in this regard.

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chrysalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2009 at 7:26am
 
Originally posted by Chrysalis Chrysalis wrote:

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

What do you mean what do I mean?  LOL!!
 
simple - People do not want to eat an animal killed in a way that they see as inhumane.
 
There are many Christians that do not eat pork.  I am a vegetarian!
 

[Quote]Many believe the way Muslims kill their animals for food is unkind. 

 
Where I have seen the outrage is when the whole menu is changed and the Christians don't have a choice.
 
 
I see. So are you a vegetarian because Christianity asks you to be one? Its a personal choice of yours.
 
Pray tell how particular Christians are about thier menus. . . and why they need to be outraged on menu changes? Like I mentioned before, Unlike Jews and Christians - they will virtually eat anything, no matter how it is killed. The only exception I can think of is the handful that do not eat pork. I have never heard of 'Christian Dietary Laws' or Christian menus, unlike the Muslim/Jewish ones like Kosher, Halal. If Christians like you are vegans/vegetarians etc, than they are because of personal choice, not religous laws.
 
Did you know that a majority of Christians are meat-eaters?
 
Do you think that the way animals are killed in USA/UK other nonmuslim countries is humane? I reccommend you read a book or watch a documentary that describes the plight of animals in American slaughterhouses. One such book I can reccommend on the spot is Fast Food Nation.
 
What ettiquette/steps/commands does the bible give about ethical/humane killing of animals, would you mind sharing? If it does not - then really, why would you want to axe your own foot and say that the way Muslims slaughter animals is inhumane? Islam gives great detail about how to slaughter an animal ethically/humanely with the least pain possible.
 
In Islam: Animals can be slaughtered only after a certain age. Female animals/Pregnant/Babies/lactating ones are to be avoided. They are supposed to be fed/watered - even if they are to be slaughtered eventually (unlike American slaughterhouses)
 
Branding animals is not allowed in Islam - because it gives the animal pain. Animals cannot be slaughtered in front of each other, so they are not distressed. It is sunnah to sharpen the knife before slaughter, so the animal feels the least pain dies quickly. Animals are not killed by electric shock or bludgeoning - methods which sometimes leave the animals 'half-dead' and in pain.
 
It is forbidden to torture animals before eating them (Bull Fighting etc). When slaughtering, the animal's jugular vien is cut, the animal dies of blood loss to brain, which is painless (or relatively painless) - unlike painful methods of blow-to-head, wringing neck, chopping off head, electrocution etc.
 


Edited by Chrysalis - 24 February 2009 at 7:40am
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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