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b95000 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b95000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2005 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

It's not that democracy is filthy.

B: Apparently not everyone agrees with you here.

My friend, first we just want  f r e e d o m! I hope you will agree that freedom is a good thing? Also for people who are not Americans. No?

B: Why would you need to confirm this with me?  Of course - but perhaps yours is rhetorical excess Sasha Khanzadeh?  No?

Once we have freedom from American troops and freedom from your CIA planted heads of our states, we may consider democracy. 

B: btw Sasha: how free was Iraq under Saddam and Afghanistan under the Taliban - just curious?  Why don't you elaborate about that and then I may consider your points.

Right now we just want our lands F R E E.

B: "our lands" - whose lands are these?  Who do you mean by "our"?

Bruce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kim! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2005 at 6:47am

Democracy is filthy?

I think you would find in a place where everyone is, say, voluntarily Muslim, where everyone is educated, where everyone has food and clothing and shelter and love and safety, democracy and Islam would be COMPLETELY compatible. People would vote for the correct things and not vote for the wrong, unhealthy things.

Good luck. You guys are going to have to sell your product REALLY hard and hope that eventually your people will be educated and healthy enough not to spoil the party for you. Trust the people enough and educate the people enough and they will trust, too, and vote the right way.

Kim...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2005 at 7:25am
Kim you always fly in at the best (or the worst) times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2005 at 7:56am

All the folks don't even agree with God, why would I expect all of them to agree with me? i promise you upon my scout's honour, I am not GBW or something like that?

My friend, I wouldn't need your confirmation. If you study the English language you will find out that it's just a polite form of actually confirming what we say. So if something doesn't suit you, it become a rhetorical excess?

You seriously think I would take your bait and start dancing to your tune of how Afghanistan was under Talibaan? It may suit you or the Neo-Cons to stir that point up.

What killing field it has become under the US interests me at this moment of time. The way the US abuses her prisoners is what interests the world right now. Not what Saddam or Mullah Omar did.

Isn't it sad that you have been reduced to comparing US conduct just with that of Saddam's regime or with Taalibaan?

I am an Afghan and now we are fighting to free our lands from the Americans. Any problem with that? From a man from a freedom loving country?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2005 at 7:58am
By the way, B95 K, just one question? Is this your only full time job (to be on this site) or you do something else also on the side?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b95000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2005 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

All the folks don't even agree with God, why would I expect all of them to agree with me?

Oh, dunno - perhaps something about your tone?

My friend, I wouldn't need your confirmation.

Great Sasha, you asked this question ["I hope you will agree that freedom is a good thing?"] - not to be answered?

If you study the English language you will find out that it's just a polite form of actually confirming what we say.

B: Interesting - are you a native English speaker?

So if something doesn't suit you, it become a rhetorical excess?

Oh, no.  Not usually.  But I have noticed it in your case Sasha Khanzadeh.  Under the guise of humor and friendly bantor you then spring forward with excessive personal insults [calling people or their questions 'stupid' - that's just plain rude and obnoxious], derisions, obssession about the culpibility of the US in everything (how can the US be so omni-present?)

You seriously think I would take your bait and start dancing to your tune of how Afghanistan was under Talibaan? It may suit you or the Neo-Cons to stir that point up.

B: Ah, so you don't want to discuss the context of the current situation?  You are fine with all what transpired under the Taliban?

What killing field it has become under the US interests me at this moment of time.

B: Killing field - please discuss what you're implying here.  I know someone who personally came upon a field of 35,000 bodies killed by the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.  Are you suggesting this in Afghanistan?

The way the US abuses her prisoners is what interests the world right now. Not what Saddam or Mullah Omar did.

B: If the US abuses its power, it will be held to account.  That is more than you can say for the Soviet Union of old and many, many, many other powers..There have been some civilians killed by military power excercised in Afghanistan - and for that there is profound sadness - I know this to be true of me personally and many, many I am in contact with.  That said, Afghanistan under the Taliban gave the US little choice regarding its complicity with al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden and his kabal of mass murderers.  Furthermore, the tryanny of the Taliban reached sickenly epoch (in the complete negative sense of that word) proportions...yet, you wish not to discuss context Sasha?  That is just ludicrous.

Isn't it sad that you have been reduced to comparing US conduct just with that of Saddam's regime or with Taalibaan?

B: You have no qualms deriding the US (within the MNF), Pres. Bush or generally all Americans in the harshest way, but you're suggesting surprise that I would defend US actions within the legitimate context in which they arose?  I would assume we wouldn't need to compare these entities - the US with Saddam or Taliban - but your argumentation on the point ["Once we have freedom from American troops and freedom from your CIA planted heads of our states, we may consider democracy"] begs the point.  And so the point is duly made,  your protests notwithstanding.

I am an Afghan and now we are fighting to free our lands from the Americans. Any problem with that? From a man from a freedom loving country?

B: I think your oversight in failing to condemn the Taliban which committed such heinous crimes - along with your diatribe against the US (it's really the MNF as John Howard has plainly reasserted the truth of in the past week) is just shocking...have you done so in your 'three years on this site'? (although your profile says one year..)  Perhaps when you do that I'll listen to your protestations about the evil the Americans are helping to cause.

I wish you and all Afghanis - a free and prosperous nation - whether you choose to recognize how it got that way Sasha - is up to you...

Bruce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2005 at 4:11pm

B: Interesting - are you a native English speaker?

The problem is that the natives don�t really use English (Try George Bernard Shaw�s Pygmalion). I had to acquire the Queen�s English with a bit of effort and, of course, considerable expense.

 

how can the US be so omni-present?

I have ever only discussed the US role in these occupations at hand. I have not thus far even mention how the US had over run an Elected government in Teheran on the behest of the Iranian American Oil Company and placed a Shah with a nett IQ of 91.2. Some argue that it was proven to be 93.1

 

B: Ah, so you don't want to discuss the context of the current situation?  You are fine with all what transpired under the Taliban?

 

If Taliban were all that bad then why were they hosted in Texas � July 2001?

And, why are the Afghans again gathering around them, now?

 

I know we do have ledgers full of killing and destruction accounts across the globe, I am only interested in how many have been killed in Afghanistan and how many are being killed even today and listed under the grand total of Al-Qaeda.

 

I am glad at least you recognise �some� civilians killed by military power in Afghanistan. I won't go into the exact figures and spoil this moment of sharing sadness.

 

Bruce, I am a prisoner of my own position. I have very little time left from looking after a huge clan. Right now all our days are taken counting the dead on both sides of the border. Pakistan army seems to have got a much bigger Killing Franchise from the US than we could ever imagine. I am tempted to leave discussing the context for the historians.

 

I sincerely hope not John Howard the Australian prime minister?

I would reserve some very senior Australian journalist�s comments about him.

 

I was on this site under Khanzadeh, but lost my password. Signed up under this screen name after that.

 

My friend, thank you for your kind sentiments.

You would know that we have always been a free people. We always fight hard at the slightest scent of a puppet in Kabul.

That�s what is going on right now.

One day we shall be free.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b95000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2005 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

B: Interesting - are you a native English speaker?

The problem is that the natives don�t really use English (Try George Bernard Shaw�s Pygmalion). I had to acquire the Queen�s English with a bit of effort and, of course, considerable expense.
B: I think you speak English very well.  I admire your efforts at language(s).  I could only hope to speak your native tongue as well someday.

 

how can the US be so omni-present?

I have ever only discussed the US role in these occupations at hand. I have not thus far even mention how the US had over run an Elected government in Teheran on the behest of the Iranian American Oil Company and placed a Shah with a nett IQ of 91.2. Some argue that it was proven to be 93.1


Bruce:
Francis J. Gavin is an international security fellow at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, Harvard University:

Politics, Power, and U.S. Policy in Iran, 1950-1953
"On 19 August 1953, elements of the Iranian army, acting on orders from the Shah and
with covert support from the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), deposed Mohammed
Mossadegh as the Prime Minister of Iran. Mossadegh�s overthrow climaxed more than two
years of crisis stemming from Iran�s clash with Great Britain over the nationalization of the
British owned Anglo-Iranian Oil company. Early in the crisis, the United States was
sympathetic to Mossadegh�s nationalization program, and went to great lengths to convince the
British to negotiate a fair settlement with Iran. Throughout 1951 and 1952, the U.S.
government steadfastly refused to sanction any unilateral attempt by Great Britain to end the
crisis through non-diplomatic means."

 

B: Ah, so you don't want to discuss the context of the current situation?  You are fine with all what transpired under the Taliban?

 

If Taliban were all that bad then why were they hosted in Texas � July 2001?

And, why are the Afghans again gathering around them, now?

B: There was one spokesman from the Taliban in Texas in 2001.  What's your point?  As the US tries to deal with any number of regimes they have diplomats around the world...are you suggesting that the democracies disengage from all non-democracies?  It was the Taliban's initiative to come to the US to try to smooth things out with the US over OBL.  It's always easy to be a naysayer and it's always easier to look back than to look forward.

 

I know we (B: all nations every where at every time) do have ledgers full of killing and destruction accounts across the globe, I am only interested in how many have been killed in Afghanistan and how many are being killed even today and listed under the grand total of Al-Qaeda.

B: How can you be 'only' interested in that?  I thought you were against any killing anywhere?

 

I am glad at least you recognise �some� civilians killed by military power in Afghanistan. I won't go into the exact figures and spoil this moment of sharing sadness.

 

Bruce, I am a prisoner of my own position. I have very little time left from looking after a huge clan. Right now all our days are taken counting the dead on both sides of the border. Pakistan army seems to have got a much bigger Killing Franchise from the US than we could ever imagine. I am tempted to leave discussing the context for the historians...

My friend, thank you for your kind sentiments.

You would know that we have always been a free people. We always fight hard at the slightest scent of a puppet in Kabul.

That�s what is going on right now.

One day we shall be free.


B: While I haven't agreed with your approach with me and America at times, I respect this reality that you face very much.  I think your concern for your family, your kith and kin is noble.  I trust that peace can be restored to the your homeland(s) and that it will be a lasting and real peace and freedom.

May God bless you and may He bless Afghanistan with His goodness, prosperity and peace.  I will do my personal best to advocate that civilians are being treated as fairly as possible by the US military, in the sense that I will advocate for this, until they withdraw.

I trust the good people of Afghanistan will oppose al Qaeda and the Death Cultists with all the freedom they possess.

So Sasha, are you Mulsim? 


Edited by b95000
Bruce
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