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Some believe Jesus uses Tu Quoque

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    Posted: 08 May 2008 at 5:46am
Hello. Believer
 
I wrote the following on another site and append it below for your reading pleasure. We must remember that Jesus used Tu Quoque and never gave a straight answer to anything. We find him doing that very often. There was nothing bad in doing that. He used to irritate his adversaries. Please enjoy the following. Hope you like it. It is no use quoting a few verses. I prefer reading an entire section.
 
Let us look at the following from Matthew 15. This is an important passage written but extremely misinterpreted by Christians and allows them to eat anything, thus breaking the Law of food permitted, which in turn, meant disobeying the Law of God Almighty.

Quote:
Matthew 15

1Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus (B)from Jerusalem and said,

2"Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."

3And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

4"For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.'

5"But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God,"

6he is not to honor his father or his mother[a].' And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

7"You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:
8'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
9'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'"

10After Jesus called the crowd to Him, He said to them, "Hear and understand.

11"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."

12Then the disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?"

13But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted.

14"Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

The Heart of Man
15Peter said to Him, "Explain the parable to us."
16Jesus said, "Are you still lacking in understanding also?

17"Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated?

18"But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.

19"For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.

20"These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man."


The question asked by the Pharisees was: "Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."

That was the question and finally, the answer was "These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man."

In other words, Jesus said it was okay to eat with unwashed or dirty hands.

Did the Pharisees ask,"Is everything lawful for your disciples/followers to eat? No such question was asked. The question had nothing to do with getting permission to eat non-kosher or haram food or unlawful food.

Jesus' message was to talk properly, kindly, nicely and politely as harsh and dirty words coming out of the mouth of a person, could be filthier than the food that was eliminated.

Even Peter could not understand. And what happened after that? All food became lawful. Instead of an iota, an entire "I" of the Law was changed due to overzealous reporting by the gospel writer and the misinterpretation . Rolling%20Eyes

Let us also take a look at this, which the disciples, Paul and other founders of Christianity forgot to remember. I have made the fonts to appear in dark blue:


7"You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:
8'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
9'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'"

Isaiah's prophecy came true through the lips of Jesus, when various doctrines such as trinity, hypostatic union and incarnation came up through the percepts of men. Did they not?
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2008 at 6:19am

I wrote that, believer.

Any comments?

BMZ

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2008 at 6:32am
Yes, Jesus' message is very straight forward.
 
19"For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.

20"These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man."
 
Food laws were very important, protecting the health of GOD's people- before the knowledge of food borne diseases.
 
You point out another prophecy from the Holy Bible that has come true.  Yes there are many that believe facing a certain way when they pray, wearing a certain clothing, praying a certain numbers of times a day,  celebrating certain rituals, etc. is a true worship of GOD.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2008 at 11:52am
Hi,
yet strange enough that Jesus is quoted in the NT to have done some fo the very things mentioned above as bad.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 08 May 2008 at 11:52am
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2008 at 6:12am
Not sure what you mean - which ones are troubling you?
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2008 at 11:04am
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Not sure what you mean - which ones are troubling you?
 
Hi believer,
here is one:

Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters�yes, even his own life�he cannot be my disciple

Hasan


Edited by honeto - 12 May 2008 at 11:06am
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2008 at 6:34am
If you read the whole section you will see Jesus is discussing the expense and perils of following your religion.  This is even true for the Muslim. 
 
You can not love your family so much that you do not follow GOD.  GOD must come first in your life.
 
Luke 14
The Cost of Being a Disciple
 25Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters�yes, even his own life�he cannot be my disciple. 27And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

 28"Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? 29For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, 30saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.'

 31"Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2008 at 5:50pm
believer,
I meant to show the opposing nature of Jesus portrayed in the Bible, i.e.,
Love your brother
vs
Hate your brother
 
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 13 May 2008 at 5:50pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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