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Begbie

Newbie

Joined: 29 September 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 31

Posted: 12 October 2005 at 7:51am

AhmadJoyia wrote:

Can�anyone�blame Islam for the cultural habits of different�people of this world? I don't think so.

While quacks like qaradawi and his ilk peddle their pseudo scholarship around and while people (like yourself) provide the apologetics necessary for it to perpetuate then I can and do lay the blame at islams door.

AhmadJoyia wrote:

I think, this new webpage quite categorically makes this thing clear that this practice is not from Islam.�I don't know from where the impression of "still ALLOWS it" comes in? Not from this�web link at least.

qaradawi back up his assertion with hadith, albeit suspect hadith. Clearly qaradawi embraces the practice and tries to wrap it up islam.

AhmadJoyia wrote:

But definitely�"and in some cases, PROMOTES�it as a�ritual of islam" is�total exaggeration. Hence your assertions are�nothing but�false.

My assertion is based on the evidence provided by a leading scholar of islam who is promoting the practice so I neither exaggerate or provide false information.

mouhssine4 View Drop Down

Newbie

Joined: 06 September 2005
Location: Morocco
Status: Offline
Points: 30

Posted: 12 October 2005 at 6:38am

rami said

"Bi ismilahir rahmanir raheem

Just pre-emting the next person to repeat what the last few posts have said.

I want someone to Define female circumcision and the procedure and clearly state what is the harm and why it is mutilation! "

i will take a step back and ask you because i am ignorant about this matter or maybe we are referring to different subject so let us first reach a common ground,

1) tell me please what do you mean by female circumcision and what is the purpose behind it ? and did Prophet Mohamed (pbh) allowed

2) i have nothing about the scholars of Islam, but when using them as reference or explanation , tell us their studies and finding and what source you have gotten that information,

to just say madhab x say that and madhab z say this is really not helping us, and except for the holly Coran everything is subject to questioning, such as was this really said or not, did he or she really said it, in what context was it said, did he or she said something else negating the first thing said etc..

stating my point of view does not make me a scholar, nor does it portray me as making fatwa, but let me see brother rami how you will define female circumcision and what are your references that is the essence.

salam

Edited by mouhssine4

rami

Moderator Group

Male
Joined: 01 March 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 2549

Posted: 12 October 2005 at 6:02am

Bi ismilahir rahmanir raheem

Just pre-emting the next person to repeat what the last few posts have said.

I want someone to Define female cicumsision and the procedure and clearly state what is the harm and why it is mutilation!

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

rami

Moderator Group

Male
Joined: 01 March 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 2549

Posted: 12 October 2005 at 5:37am

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

A madhhab is where we get our fiqh from, there are four in islam. You have the privelage of living in an age where people are ignorant of there own history and what this ummah has done to preserve the message of rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam].

The argument you present of it not being mentioned in quran and sunnah therefore this prooves impermisability lacks scholarship and understanding of Islam. You are not a scholar of any calibr to present this as an argument for something being haram or halal, no scholar would accept that as the sole reason for impermisability.

Unless you know why the ruling is there how on earth can you argue that the rulling is wrong?

First explain the precedure which you think is wrong, what its harmfull efffects are, what specificly prohibts it in the Quran and sunnah.

You should know this, It is impermisable for an unqualified person to go into the Quran and Sunnah and make up there own fatwah!

Edited by rami

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

mouhssine4 View Drop Down

Newbie

Joined: 06 September 2005
Location: Morocco
Status: Offline
Points: 30

Posted: 12 October 2005 at 3:58am

salamou alaikoum

bismi Allah a Rahman a rahim

i though i wil visit quikly to see who is say what, but when i saw this thread, i could not help myself but writing something

mister rami, our brother is stating that femalle circomp is not forbiden

i have never heard such a thing, not in the coran nor in the hadith

since when was a madhab ,the source of revelation, while the chrition are preasing jesus to the point of equating him with God

we muslim are venerating scholors to the point of equating them with messangers

prophet mohamed peace be upon him has said and Allah knows best

i am parahrazing " the halal (permitted) is in the Holy Coran, and the Haram (forbiden, not allowed) is in the Holy Coran"

this Hadith sums it up, nobody and i mean nobody even prophet Mohamed peace be upon hin can allow or forbid something without Allah permissiong, and in the Holly Coran everything is stated

about femalle mutulation, go to the Holly Coran and read it from the begining to the end and you will not find anything refering to a such unjustified action (also barbarique to my point of view)

now, is male circom stated in the holly Coran (i am not sure) but i know that it is a sunna of our prophet Mohamed peace be upon him

and the sunna like the islam revelation is like a beam of light that started from the day of the revelation and it will end the day of judgement (proof at hand: Allah will spread and conserve that beam of light until the day of judgement, it is in the holly coran), i guess will blow away the idea of not considering hadith and sunna as source of revelation, hadith is merly an expleanation of what is in holy coran, not an other module or extantion to the revelation of Allah swt

salam

Edited by mouhssine4

rami

Moderator Group

Male
Joined: 01 March 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 2549

Posted: 11 October 2005 at 11:06pm

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

hafezabutaleb

If you do not know the reason behind it then do not comment, if you do not know on what basis the law in the shafii madhhab has been established then what are talking about.

It is Allah Who gives plesure and pain. Wold you then Rob some one of the gifts and Graces Allah has Given?

this clearly shows your ignorance of what female Circumcision entails, it does not take away the womens ability to enjoy marital relation, mutilation does but as i have clearly said and shown they are not the same thing.

Maryga do you know what a madhhab even is?

what pretence are you talking about, can you tell me on what basis the shafii madhhab has made this ruling what are the reasons?

do you even know the procedure that is being discussed, and why you are calling it mutilation.

if not then nothing you have said is of value only emotional outbursts due to a lack of understanding of the matter.

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

Maryga

Senior Member

Joined: 10 July 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 143

Posted: 11 October 2005 at 10:50pm

Well said hafezabutaleb. Seems like the shafi madhab has received special sanctions, if what is being said is true. Shameful and sickening! May Allah save the innocent female children who before Islam used to be buried alive and now are subjected to torture under the pretense of the sanctions of the shafi madhab.

hafezabutaleb View Drop Down

Newbie

Joined: 06 November 2001
Location: allahs
Status: Offline
Points: 11

Posted: 11 October 2005 at 9:31pm

My Feeling on this is That Probaly should be forbidden in islam, What is the Moral Behind it. Males are cucumsized to follow the covenent of abraham. there is no need for this. This is Not Sanctioned by Allah. Were you there When He Commanaded Thus? It is Allah Who gives plesure and pain. Wold you then Rob some one of the gifts and Graces Allah has Given?
Peace