Woman and Islam |
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Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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Hayfa,
You are really missing the point. Is that your strategy? I have wasted a lot of time answering questions and objections you make based on misquoting something I said. Will you please pay attention to my exact words and the context in which I make them?
I did not make a sweeping judgment about banning the Bible. The quote and context are repeated below: I provided examples of the early Christians and their influence because it is the best reflection of Christians who practiced what they believed and taught. After governments and leaders started aligning itself with Christianity the Church started becoming weakened and corrupted. It still existed and the doctrines were defended even when their practice was not. I believe that the corrupting influence was the governmental powers but reasonable people may think there is another explanation. The key thing is � Christians in the past and now, should have one authority in their beliefs and practice and that is the Word of God. Ancient and current governments know this a threat to their authority and their ability to manipulate Christians so the Bible has been banned as much as possible. Many Christians have died to bring the Bible to others and when you see a government � in the past or now - trying to prevent the Bible from being read by the common person, that is a pretty strong argument against that government being a �Christian� country. As you can see the point of the above was to show the distinction between Christians and so-called Christians. The latter have usually been governments who act contrary to the Bible. So you are objecting to a position of your own making. I agree with most of what you are saying. So what? You haven�t refuted what I have actually said on this point. And if you did � what is the point? To prove me wrong on at least one petty thing? I�m flattered. I have already conceded that my observations � which are apparently broader than yours � are anecdotal and not justification for drawing the initial conclusions I did. I am not ready to accept your contention that Islam is a better situation for women but I am willing to leave the �debate� to the women it effects. Apollos Since Paul/Saul was responsible for much of the New Testament and his admonition to women regarding their status to men appears in his letters to the Corinthians, in the New Testament, I don't see how "early Christians" could have possibly been more enlightened in their treatment of women. Paul/Saul is about as "early" as they come.
It is amazing that you so easily dismiss the posts, and actually insult, the Muslim women who have responded to your post. Actions speak louder than words and your treatment of women has not done the Christian religion any favors. Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 26 February 2009 at 7:22pm |
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Sign*Reader
Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3352 |
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I think you need to answer this yourself In my opinion the Christianity's acceptance of this crown invalidates its legitimacy as a divine religion in it's current form...... If raising of a fatherless child is not an oppression than what it is? In the meantime don't forget the spectacle of OCTOMOM
Your manufacturing of assumptions are utterly fallacious cuz here is the history in brief so stick with facts: A quick ref from wiki Historical backgroundUntil the mid-nineteenth century, writers assumed that a patriarchal order was a natural order that had existed[3] as John Stuart Mill wrote, since "the very earliest twilight of human society".[4] This was not seriously challenged until the eighteenth century when Jesuit missionaries found matrilineality in native North American peoples.[5] In the Middle Ages, an early effort to improve the status of women in Islam occurred during the early reforms under Islam, when women were given greater rights in marriage, divorce and inheritance.[6] Women were not accorded with such legal status in other cultures, including the West, until centuries later.[7] The Oxford Dictionary of Islam states that the general improvement of the status of Arab women included prohibition of female infanticide and recognizing women's full personhood.[8] "The dowry, previously regarded as a bride-price paid to the father, became a nuptial gift retained by the wife as part of her personal property."[9][6] Under Islamic law, marriage was no longer viewed as a "status" but rather as a "contract", in which the woman's consent was imperative.[9][6][8] "Women were given inheritance rights in a patriarchal society that had previously restricted inheritance to male relatives."[6] Annemarie Schimmel states that "compared to the pre-Islamic position of women, Islamic legislation meant an enormous progress; the woman has the right, at least according to the letter of the law, to administer the wealth she has brought into the family or has earned by her own work."[10] According to Professor William Montgomery Watt, when seen in such historical context, Muhammad "can be seen as a figure who testified on behalf of women�s rights."[11] Some have claimed that women generally had more legal rights under Islamic law than they did under Western legal systems until more recent times.[12] English Common Law transferred property held by a wife at the time of a marriage to her husband, which contrasted with the Sura: "Unto men (of the family) belongs a share of that which Parents and near kindred leave, and unto women a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, whether it be a little or much - a determinate share" (Quran 4:7), albeit maintaining that husbands were solely responsible for the maintenance and leadership of his wife and family.[12] "French married women, unlike their Muslim sisters, suffered from restrictions on their legal capacity which were removed only in 1965."[13] Do we need to continue further?If your argument is on the prevailing conditions in Muslim populated lands.... of course there is hardly an independent Islamic country across the neocolonial political spectrum ...if men are hardly free, or educated in Islamic law how can we judge the condition of their women? You don't even want go into the old Christian European history to see the plight of the women...the witch burning and all ... Whatever so called freedoms for promiscuity and state of Gomorrah in the western world is the bi product of the Liberalism's onslaught on the society through secular academia and media....If you want to equate the Liberalism's fruits with Christianity's ....be my guest it is all yours and it is all going down the toilet...Look where does the west stands today on the brink of an abyss financially morally and you name it>........ Edited by Sign*Reader - 27 February 2009 at 4:11pm |
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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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seekshidayath
Senior Member Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Chrysalis
Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
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Ditto!!!
Wa'salaam.
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Apollos
Senior Member Joined: 29 January 2009 Status: Offline Points: 426 |
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Hasan,
I think I have answered all of your questions. If I missed one please restate and I will reply.
Apollos
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Saladin
Senior Member Male Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Sri Lanka Status: Offline Points: 575 |
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By the way you did not answer by earlier question to you Apollo?
Hasan Looks like he has pole vaulted over it , like he has done over many other issues raised. |
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'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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Apollos
Senior Member Joined: 29 January 2009 Status: Offline Points: 426 |
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Saladin,
I am not trying ignore any issues raised. With so many Muslims responding to my post it is possible I am missing a post. If you will be so kind as to restate any issues you believe I ignored, I will be happy to reply.
Apollos
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honeto
Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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Apollo,
yes, just like others I am waiting your reply to the issue I raised. One things is sure Apollo, you are not just going to have more knowledge about Islam, but about your own belief, thanks to your coming on this forum.
Hasan Edited by honeto - 02 March 2009 at 1:33pm |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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