It is easter time.Crucifixion or Cruci-fiction

Caringheart wrote: This question was answered once before in this thread;http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28029&KW=helpful&PN=2my post of February 25, 2014: It would be <span ="highlight"="">helpful</span> if you could understand and think of these books as...the testimony of Mark,the testimony of Matthew,the testimony of Luke,the testimony of John,regardless of who put pen to paper.Muhammad did not write down the words of the qur'an, and neither did God... it took men to put pen to paper, yet you do not say these words did not come from God or His eyewitness, Muhammad. How do you explain the many differing recitations of the qur'an when all recitations came from only Muhammad?asalaam,Caringheart

Hi
Caringheart,

A testimony of any writer must bear his signature,if not it is unreliable evidence and will be thrown out of court in under 10 seconds as fabricated testimonies.


As for the Quraan it was revealed verbally,and it was memorised in the brain,as it is still memorised today in its original form.If you go to any place in the world today you would listen to the quran in Arabic in its original mother tongue.Unlike the Bible,you have different versions,for example the bible you hold in your hand has 66 books.the rheems or doue version of the catholic bible has 72 books which you do not accept as the word of God.You would call it spurious books apocrypha ,lies doubtful,not true.In the Quran you do not have this type of stories.Where ever you go in the world we have one Quran.


How do you explain the many differing recitations of the qur'an when all recitations came from only Muhammad?


In America you have one pronunciation and in India you have a different way of pronunciation of the same word.In the English language if i write

the man slept on the bed.
the man slept on the bd
If you know English you would understand that bd means bed not bod not bad but bed.That is what was regulated the sound of different way of pronunciation.

regards Ismail.       

islamispeace wrote: Julius Caesar's use of the third person was done to give his account an aura of authenticity.� It was a literary device.� What motive did "John" have to write his "Gospel" in the third person? The so-called "beloved disciple" has been traditionally identified as John.� Even if he was not, not evidence exists that the author of the Gospel used the disciple as a "source".� The contradictions between the Gospels are of course due to the different sources they used.� That only proves that they were not "inspired".� But if we assume that the Christians are right to believe that the gospels were actually written by the disciples, then the logical question would be why do the different disciples contradict each other? ��

As you say, the third person narrative is a literary device. Traditionally, John's motive for using it is given as humbleness. As I personally don't believe that John actually wrote the Gospel as we have it himself, then the use of the third person is not relevant to the argument. The final author is referring to his source John in the third person.

The author of the Gospel refers to his source at least twice;
The beloved disciple as witness to the crucifixion - John 19:35 He who saw it has borne witness � his testimony is true, and he knows that he is telling the truth � that you also may believe.
The beloved disciple as the source for the narrative - John 21:24 This is the disciple who is bearing witness about these things, and who has written these things, and we know that his testimony is true.

Why do the Gospels contradict each other? They don't! They complement each other. Differences are due to perspective, use of different eye witnesses, omission or ignorance about an event, or the difference in emphasis or focus by the author.

As John 21:35 says - Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

Clearly the Gospels did not claim to be recording everything that Jesus did.

But who claims that the Gospels were 'inspired'. Can you quote from the Gospels themselves where they claim to be inspired?

That the Gospels speak the truth is attested by the Quran itself:-
Surah 5 in numerous places claims that Christians must look to their Scriptures in order to practice the faith given to them by Allah. Such a command is nonsense if those Scriptures did not survive at that time - ie are referring to the New Testament.



Edited by Lachi - 16 March 2014 at 2:58pm

Greetings truthnowcome,

Perhaps you are just unaware?

Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 514, p. 482; book 61
    Narrated Umar bin Al-Khattab:

    I heard Hisham bin Hakim reciting Surat Al-Furqan during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle and I listen to his recitation and noticed that he recited in several different ways which Allah's Apostle had not taught me. I was about to jump over him during his prayer, but I controlled my temper and when he had completed his prayer, I put his upper garment around his neck and seized him by it and said, "Who taught you this Surat which I heard you reciting ?" He replied, "Allah's Apostle taught it to me". I said, "You have told a lie, for Allah's Apostle taught it to me in a different way from yours". So I dragged him to Allah's Apostle and said, "I heard this person reciting Surat Al-Furqan in a way which you haven't taught me!". On that Allah's Apostle said, "Release him (Umar) recite, O Hisham!" Then he recited in the same way I heard him reciting. Then Allah's Apostle said, "It was revealed in this way", and added, "Recite, O Umar", I recited it as he had taught me. Allah's Apostle then said, "It was revealed in this way. This Qur'an has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it whichever is easier for you."

asalaam,
Caringheart

iec786 wrote: Hi Caringheart, A testimony of any writer must bear his signature,if not it is unreliable evidence and will be thrown out of court in under 10 seconds as fabricated testimonies.

Greetings Ismail,

If you say this and stick to it then you must agree that all of the qur'an would have to be thrown out as 'fabricated testimony', since there can be ascribed no actual 'writer' of the qur'an.
Does the qur'an bear the signature of Muhammad who was the witness... the reciter... the bringer of the testimony?

asalaam,
Caringheart

note:  I also hope you were able to read my reply to truthnowcome, written yesterday, March 16, 2014.


Edited by Caringheart - 17 March 2014 at 12:18pm