Bravo Amigos!


Spain's general election winner Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero

A Prime Minister is waging war. The great majority of the people oppose the war. The majority vote for the Prime Minister.

Absurd? Well, that was the situation in Spain. It also applies, more or less, in Israel. But here the similarity ends.

The Spanish people have thrown their Prime Minister out. The Israeli people go on supporting their Prime Minister.

The Spaniards, in their innocence, believe that if a Prime Minister does the opposite of what the great majority of the people want, he has to go. They think that this is what democracy is all about. In Israel, such a thing is unthinkable. 

And that is not the only difference.

Of course, the Spanish people arrived at this conclusion under the influence of the big terrorist attack in Madrid. The Spanish reaction was very different from the usual Israeli one. 

After the terrorist onslaught, the Spanish asked themselves: why did they do it? What caused this murderous attack on us? The logical answer was: the Prime Minister's policy has brought this on us. The conclusion: Let's find another one.

In Israel, such a question cannot arise. What brought the terrorist attacks on us? What sort of a question is that? The reason for terrorism is the inborn murderous character of the Arabs. It has, of course, nothing at all to do with the policy of our Prime Minister. 

When a terrorist outrage happens here, logic flies out of the window. Instead of thinking and asking questions, people shout "Death to the Arabs", demand bloody revenge and gather around the Prime Minister. 

Another difference: the Spaniards got angry. The Prime Minister lied to them. He exploited the outrage for his election campaign. When he already knew that all the signs pointed to Islamic fanatics, he pretended in public that the attack was perpetrated by the Basque ETA organization. He hoped to garner the votes of those Spaniards who oppose an independent Basque homeland. But the voters understood that this was a lie and did not like it. The Prime Minister is lying to us? To hell with him.

In Israel, when the Prime Minister lies, the public remains apathetic. The Prime Minister has lied to us again? So what? Isn't he always lying? Nothing to get upset about. 

One can only envy the Spanish. After a horrible civil war, after decades of an oppressive dictatorship, in spite of domestic splits and many terrorist attacks, what a healthy reaction! What strong democratic instincts! 

(By the way: some 500 years ago, half a million Jews were expelled from Spain. In the last decades, almost all the "Sephardim" - Sepharad is the Hebrew name for Spain - came to Israel. The great majority of them support Ariel Sharon. Why do the "Spanish" Jews in Israel react differently from the Spanish people back home?)

There is another difference between Spain and Israel, and it may be the decisive one.

Last year I visited Spain. Some days before I arrived, the Prime Minister's party had won an impressive victory in the local elections. The opposition Socialist Party was lying flat out. Everybody spoke of it with contempt, some with pain. The party was in ruins, perhaps beyond redemption.

And then it happened: the party replaced its old leaders with an energetic, fresh one, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. With a lot of luck, this man has now led his party power.

When the Spanish people were fed up with their Prime Minister, they knew that there was a reasonable alternative. They could throw the ruling party out because there was another party ready to move in.

In Israel, these conditions do not apply. Our leading opposition party, Labor, is also a shambles, but there is no sign of recovery. Quite the contrary.

It is headed by a pathetic person who would make a deal with the devil for a place in Sharon's government. Its other old leaders, all of them certified failures, are already quarrelling about the chairs that Sharon may allot them, should he be so kind as to invite them into his cabinet. 

The Israeli situation is surreal: according to all opinion polls, a large part of the public is fed up with the war, the bloody cycle of suicide bombings and targeted assassinations, the settlements and the settlers. They want a solution and are ready to pay the necessary price - the end of the occupation, a Palestinian state, the dismantling of the settlements, a reasonable compromise about Jerusalem, withdrawal to the vicinity of the Green Line. They want to shift our national resources from occupation and war to economic growth, education and social welfare.

So how does this translate into political realities? It doesn't. There is no serious political force able to offer an alternative leadership.

In Spain that was a temporary situation, which corrected itself in a natural way. In Israel, this situation seems to be permanent.

Therefore, one can not only envy the Spanish, but also learn from them. The political ball is round. It can turn suddenly. What seems to be impossible can become possible - if there are good people around, who can convert good intentions into political reality.

I hope that this will happen here, too. True, some people are already standing in line - Tony Blair and George W. Bush. What has happened to Jose Maria Aznar in Spain must happen to them, and I hope that it will. Then, with a lot of courage and a lot of luck, the turn of the fourth in the queue will come, and Ariel Sharon, another man of blood and lies, will be turned out.

In the meantime we salute our friends at the other end of the Mediterranean Sea - Bravo, amigos!

 

Uri Avnery is an Israeli journalist, peace activist and a former member of the Knesset


Related posts from similar topics:


Disclaimer
The opinions expressed herein, through this post or comments, contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. These are offered as a means for IslamiCity to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization. The IslamiCity site may occasionally contain copyrighted material the use of which may not always have been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. IslamiCity is making such material available in its effort to advance understanding of humanitarian, education, democracy, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and such (and all) material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml If you wish to use any copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

  46 Comments   Comment

  1. Nick Cameron from United States of America

    OBL's denial is a subtle trick. He claims no direct role in planning and coordinating 9/11, which is likely true. But as far as I know, no one has accused him of doing those things. His crime was creating the terrorist infrastructure that is known as Al Qaeda, a group whose purpose was to carry out terrorist attacks against Americans. That's conspiracy to commit murder, and that's why he's a marked man.

    Now that I have clarified for all, we can put the matter to rest.

  2. Akbar Khan from Canada

    I agree with Umm Muhammad, because OBL never admitted to the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon. First of all, there were four video tapes of him released, three by Al-Jazeera, and one by the US Government, remember Dick Cheney asking for Hollywood's help in explaining to the public their war on terror? Then a month later, the US Govt. released a video that showed some dark skinned guy with a different face than OBL's, sitting there, dressedup as him in a drywalled room with white walls, sitting there with 2,3 other guys, and making hand gestures that indicated one hand as being the WTC, and one being a plane. Now WHY was this the only tape of OBL's which was different from the rest, and the one used to somehow "convict" OBL as being guilty for the WTC attacks?

    Secondly I agree with Umm Muhammad, OBL is our Muslim brother. At the same time the killing of innocents is unacceptable, no matter who does it.

    OBL admitted to taking responsibility for the WTC bombings in 1992, the USS COLE, the US Embassy attack in Kenya in 98, and to all the other one'sreported by U.S. Media. But why has Osama not claimed responsibility for the WTC attacks of Sept. 11th? Have you people who are so easy to believe something asked yourselves the right questions at least?????? Look at the 9/11 inquiries adn the testimonies by members of the Bush and Clinton Administrations and ask yourselves why they received intelligence about aerial attacks that would be coming to the United States, and took no preventive measures, or eased tension at all in their relations with other countries? At least hold those who are present to be held accountable...how can you hold someone accountable of a murder if there is no public information that links this individual to that murder?

  3. Nick Cameron from United States of America

    Umm:

    OBL is guity. Even he admitted that on video tapes when he praised the murderers. Not only that, but he also declared as early as 1998 that all Americans and Jews were legitimate targets, with no distinction between combatants and noncombatants. Add to that that he had the means and opportunity to train terrorists in Afghanistan, then it seems to me that there's ample evidence.

    Samy:

    If you are American (and I don't doubt that you are, and my apologies for not realizing it in the beginning) then you know where I'm coming from with this. However, I think it's imprecise to distinguish between terrorism and injustice as you seem to suggest by talking about ending one before the other. To me, terrorism *is* injustice. So I don't "reverse" the two so much as say that they're one in the same.

  4. Umm Muhammad from United States

    Samy Mohamed if you are Muslim, how can you call Osama Bin Laden a monster? First of all, even if he did do something outside of Islam like September 11 which is a sin he is still our Muslim brother.

    Second why do you assume that he is guilty of these crimes just because some non-Muslims say he is?

    WHY IS OSAMA BIN LADEN GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT?

    I think we as Muslims should not put bad names on other Muslims and use bad language against them.

    Don't believe everything the American media says about Osama Bin Laden, they lied before and years from now we will find out more lies!!!!

  5. Samy Mohamed from USA

    NICK: You feel like a target each time you make a comment because your logic is skewerd!

    I NEVER suggested that terrorism was a justifiable way to air one's grievances. The killing of innocent people is abhorent and should not betolerated. I merely pointed out the root causes of terrorism and what should be addressed in order to stamp it out.

    I am as American as you are and love this country no less, however, I do strongly oppose U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East which I believe is the CAUSE why someone like OBL resorted to terrorism in the first place. OBL is a monster created by U.S. unjust policies in the Mideast.

    You are saying that terrorism should cease FIRST and I am saying INJUSTICE should stop FIRST! as the former is the EFFECT and the latter the CAUSE!

    You reversed the two.

  6. Nick Cameron from United States of America

    Mahadhir bin Mat Lazim:

    I opposed the 2003 invasion of Iraq, so I choose not to debate you on the issue. Regarding the War on Terror in Afghanistan, I support my government 100%. Even Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, OBL's former #3, admitted under interrogation that our military's operations in Afghanistan disrupted Al Qaida and hindered further attacks on the U.S. post-9/11. I want my government to act boldly when confronting our real enemies, because in doing so my family remains safe.

    And one other thing. Sudah lama Ada Jemaah Islamiya di Malaysia. Those people want to wreak havok in the Philippines because they hate Catholics. America did not cause their terrorism because the Moro extremists and their Malaysian and Indonesian allies had been engaging in terrorist conduct in Mindanao for decades. Tapi tidak apa-apa karena your country has decided to cooperate with Bush in the War on Terror, so things might get better for the Philippines. But I will say no more because this is a sensitive topic for me.

    Adios to you too.

  7. Nick Cameron from United States of America

    Everytime I post a comment, I feel like I have a target on my head.

    Samy Mohamed:

    The terrorism perpetrated by Muslim extremists was indeed not born in a vacuum. And I can accept for the sake of this particular discussion that terrorists believe that they are reacting to injustice. But in doing so, they are committing an injustice themselves. That is the key to the point I'm making here. You see, as long as terrorism remains a threat to the American people, my fellow citizens will not be as sympathetic to your cause as they could be. OBL once said on a recording sent to Al Jazeera that the American people have "not learned their lesson" from 9/11, as if he had the authority of God to punish us! Anyways, he was wrong, because he taught us that innocent Americans are now just as much a target as innocent Israelis. *You* think of this objectively. Would most people you know feel sympathy for someone who killed their family? If not, then why do you expect Americans to suddenly be more understanding when Muslims say tell us that our "Zionist" ways caused 9/11?

    Finally, I'm hardly "anti-Muslim". Islam is a beautiful way of life regardless of what Christian conservatives say. And I understand that Muslim people have grievances against my government (i.e. U.N. vetoes, aid to Israel, etc). But you have to understand that we have our own grievances too now, and my government will do what's in the interests of the American people to remedy our situation with or without the support of the Muslim world.

    If terrorism ends, then I think you'll have a very receptive audience in America. After all, the sheer weight of American public opinion was enough to force our Republican President to actively pressure South Africa to end Apartheid. But until then, this is how things stand.

  8. Samy Mohamed from USA

    Nick Cameron... how come you're on EVERY single forum on this site? Man, you should find a better outlet for your anti-Muslim bias.

    Al-Qaeda was NOT born our of a vacuum. Terrorism is NOT a hobby but rather a reaction to extreme injustice. Instead of blindly parroting the universal chorus of condemnation and outrage, consider an objective analysis of terrorism.

    The United States has a track record of supporting dictatorships, overthrowing democratically-elected goverments and supporting oppressive regimes like Israel, vetoing every single Security Council Resolution condemning the brutal and repressive policies of the one country that is the root of all evil in the Middle East. Osma Bin Laden and his terrorist network are the product of a Arab/Muslim anger and frustration over decades of systematic oppression and injustice imposed by the West in general and the United States in particular on Arab/Muslim countries and peoples.

    The British and the French divided and then plundered the Arab world for over one hundred and fifty years. France occupied north Africa, Syria and Lebanon. The British took over the rest of the Arab world, subjugating its people and plundering its wealth. In recent history, the United States helped bring Arab dictators to power and overthrow, and sometimes kill, anyone who did not serve its post-colonial policies. Oil was the major driving force behind Desert Storm I and II. It is no coincidence that American presence in the Arab world is right on top of the largest oil reserves in the world.

    THESE are the reasons that made Bin Laden and his cohorts terrorists.

    In order to cure the cancer of terrorism, you need to deal with the root causes. Killing Bin Laden and his followers alone will NOT stop terrorism.

    Reversing U.S. policies in the Mideast and addressing Arab/Muslim legitimate grievances will certainly stop terrorism.

  9. David Moon from Greenland

    The people of Israel may want to consult George W. Bush who will readily sent in his Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force to kill Sharon and company and impose proper democracy in your country. Good luck!

  10. Mahadhir bin Mat Lazim from Malaysia

    Cummon' Nicky...

    Everybody in the US, the UK and the rest of the world (as it sounds very unimportant to you estadounidenses y britanicos) knows the american and british intelligence have mocked enough on the humble citizens of both countries. Kerry has won substancial votes and Kelly very-very sadly has lost his life over these fabricated stories on iraqi nuclear project, al-Qaeda in Afghanistan etc. To nicky and people like Nicky, don't shut your eyes on how much afghanis and iraqis have suffered after the invasion. They lack even the very basic need in human life while you norteamericanos y ingleses quarrel in courts over spilt hot coffee.

    Lastly, Nicky amigo, I am not Spaniard. I was there while studying in a university in Madrid and now I'm with the humble people in my country Malaysia. Thanks Nicky for all your time and opinions. Adios.

  11. Nick Cameron from United States

    Mahadhir bin Mat Lazim:

    I am not "insensitive". I recognize that each country has its own national interests at stake, and therefore each country has a right to do what it believes would best promote those interests. That being said, I think that you're wrong to believe that Aznar brought the Muslim terrorists into your country. Anyone in the intelligence or law enforcement business in Europe will tell you that Al Qaida has been on your continent for years, even before 9/11. And your country's decision to join the coalition would not have changed that fact. Even Turkey, which was stridently opposed to the recent war, recently suffered several terrorist attacks by Al Qaida. And France is also currently dealing with threats over their hijab ban.

    The Muslim terrorists in your country will not leave even after your government withdraws from Iraq. It's high time that Europeans wake up to the reality that Islamic extremism is not just an American problem.

  12. Mahadhir bin Mat Lazim from Malaysia

    Vamos Pepito, que es verdad, claro!Viv el ao pasado en el mismo barrio (C/Ro Colorado) y por supuesto me doli muchsimo el ataque. Ousting the Prime Minister was the best choice the Spaniards have done. I was there with the ocean of hummble citizens in Madrid, shouting "No a la guerra!"(no to the war)last year, n' felt very frustrated and hopeless with the "Got no ear" attitude of Aznar. Throwing him down does not mean they bow to the will of the terrorists, but who's the cause of all these? Spain has suffered enough of the ETA (Basque separatist-terrorist group) all these years, then Aznar has brought another clan of very dangerous people into the peninsula. Americans, you are good in tech and economical stuffs but I feel you guys are quite insensitive on other nations. Vivimos juntos en paz!

  13. Jose Garcia from Spain

    No es verdad! The Spanish people despise the terrorist. We gave in to the terrorist and let them control our election. The Americans will not let this happen.

  14. michael soranto from malaysia

    A bull fighter should stand tall not drag around

    by another into fight he doesnt want.

  15. Ahmed Asgher from bahrain

    Chris Ward

    First thank you for making your views clear but let us cut the rhetoric about what constitutes a 'muslims' country. We know that and perhaps you do not - so jsut do your geography.

    This is what you said:

    "Once a country has it the world is worse off."

    "people who sell the technology to others."

    "Nuclear proliferation is a bad idea."

    I agree with all that but remember that the only nuclear bomb used in history so far was used by your country. and you are right you will be accused with hypocracy in saying that the US should have it but not others.

    "I hope the main aim of our country is to stop proliferation and then rid ourselves of the bomb."

    keep on dreaming! OR do something about it. become a member of a peace movement or anti-nuke. Don't just hope. For evil to flourish, it takes good men to remain silent.

    "Do you think the world would be safer if syria and iran had the bomb."

    No, I don't think so but neither Iran nor Syria has nukes. Now let me ask you a question: Do you think the world is safer because Israel already has more than 200 nukes? and it has threatened to use it as a "pre-emptive" stike against any country and even non-nuke country. Remember in addition to such nukes, Israel also has great amount of biological weapons and labs that will make Franstein's house look like a child-play. Guess what Chris: Your country has supplied them all that and continues to do so _ Ther goes your WMD and its theory of non-profilation!

    Now consdier this. In a volatile area like the Middle East; Do you think Iran is going to live uder the shadow of Israeli nukes with its constant threat against all its neighbours? Put yourself in their shoes and you'd be racing to get nukes too. and you are to blame.

    " hope we do not go to war with syria or iran."

    The neocons have it on plan to do so. Stop hoping and try stopping them before it is too late even tho they have been stalled in Iraq.

  16. Christopher Ward from USA

    Attacking Iraq may not have been a good idea but it did happen. I never said it was a good idea. As for Afganistan it is beyond need for discussion as to why there was (is) war. We are figthing against the Tailban and OBL because they fight against us, they fight against us because they fight against them. It is circular. It really comes down to the race for the bomb. Once a country has it the world is worse off. In a perfect world there would be no bombs. Stable countries could possible have the bomb, but what I want to prevent is more countries like pakistan from getting the bomb. The reason has nothing to do with muslims but to do with people who sell the technology to others. Dr. Kahn sold info to other countries and this is the problem. Nuclear proliferation is a bad idea. Of course the question is "why then does your country have a nuclear weapon?" Good question. It is a fine line and people can through around the use of the term hypocrite with justification but I hope the main aim of our country is to stop proliferation and then rid ourselves of the bomb. I hope we do not have to attack syria or iran. It would be a terrible war but I do not think we can risk more nuclear weapons in the world (north korea included). Do you think the world would be safer if syria and iran had the bomb. Another question is why are these called muslim countries. Is there a certain percentage of people that have to occupy a country to make it "muslim". American and great britian have many muslims, maybe we could be percieved as a muslim country. If it has to do with islamic law I am not aware that any of these countries practice (only) sharia. So in short, I did not think attacking iraq was a good idea but it happend and we should help the iraqi people out to have a stable country, and I hope we do not go to war with syria or iran.

  17. Abdallah Al Saadi from Argentina

    I think, the spnish peolpe was in a correct point because the donkey Aznar (because he is it) put the spanish tropes in Iraq and the consecuence of his act of murder was the terrorist attack in Madred. Mme, like muslim, think than the attempt against those people was wrong because the terrorist are painting another image of the Iislam, a bad image and noneone of us wan it.

    Salam aleikum

    Abdallah Al Saadi

  18. Nick Cameron from United States of America

    Marianne Nashed:

    Those articles were the most readily available at the time; in fact, I've seen many of the same things from a variety of sources. Even as recently as a few days ago, CNN did an interview with a Palestinian mother who claimed that she would not stop her little son from becoming a "martyr" through suicide bombing. So when I say "irresponsible", I'm putting it diplomatically. Such behavior is *unconciounable*, and it shows a lack of respect for God's gift of life.

    Peace out!

  19. Ahmed from UK

    Correction Ward, the Spainish people did what was RIGHT and rejected terrorism by tossing Aznar out. I wouldnt be surprised at all to learn that the thugs in Washington, London and Tel Aviv were behind this evil act.

    Dont worry though at this rate, both Phony Tony and your own dim witted Fuhrer will looking for new jobs soon.

  20. Ahmed Asgher from Bahrain

    Christopher Ward:

    Spaniards simply took their country back from a lying president who saw the millions coming out against invading Iraq yet Aznar chose to entertain Bush and send his troops to invade Iraq.

    Europeans understand that you should not attack a country which presents no threat to you at worst and at best it has not attacked you. But your president had this war on his 'things to do' list before he took his office. There is no denying that Iraq had no link with OBL. That Iraq did not do 911. So why loose focus on OBL and attack a weak country? What is your purpose in doing that? Please as an American explain this to us all here for once and all. and stop beating around the bush! pardon the pun.

    In your denial you can resort to rehtoric that Spaniards appeased the terrorists. They simply took the line not to get involved in lies and risk the lives of their citizenery for a war that truly ahd nothing to do with terrorism or threats agaisnt their country.

    I await your explanation as to why you think atacking Iraq was a good thing to do and that all the world should back America in its attacks agaisnt muslim countries, like Afghanistan, like Iraq and now as being planned against Syria and Iran?

  21. Christopher Ward from USA

    The Spainish people played right in line with what the terrorists wanted. They have proved they can achieve political goals with violence. This will encourage more such actions. Standing in solidarity would mean to not change governments. Violence can never be used to obtain political or religious goals. This is well known by the true Christian. Hopefully it will be well known by all others as well.

  22. Ronni from USA

    What exactly do I need to be educated on Adil Imtiaz Khan? On how to think like an evil, villanous, anti-God, murderer like those who carried out the Madrid bombings?

    Do I need to somehow "learn" that if I don't get what I want from the leaders of a country, then it's okay for me to blow up the country's children?

    Listen, I want to go to heaven, not hell. And that's where these treacherous, murdering dogs are headed.

  23. Amjad Iqbal from Toronto, Canada

    Israeli journalist Uri Avnery is probably the most respectable and fair-minded Jewish reporter in Israel today. In a land where truths are hard to come by, Mr. Avnery should be applauded for having the courage to speak for and defend Palestinian rights and condemning the undignified attack against the Spanish people when they elected their PM Zapatero.

    The Spaniards were mocked as appeasing the terrorists by the same pro-Israeli, anti-Islamic fanatics when they choose to oust their hawish PM Aznar for taking their country headfirst in one of the most unpopular war in Spainish history. The voters were fed up with Aznar lies, crookedness, and thousands of IRAQI INNOCENT CIVILIANS DEATHS as a DIRECT RESULT OF THE ANGLO-AMERICAN INVASION of IRAQ!

    It's time Americans woke up and gave Bush the same taste of defeat as the brave Spaniards did against Aznar.

  24. Marianne Nashed from United States

    Peace to all.

    My comments are directed to Nick Cameron who seems adamant in equating the Palestinian peoples just struggle for independence against Israel as being "irresponsible." Honestly sir, I don't find anything irresponsible for Palestinian parents urging their children to fight for their land against a military juggernaut who controls their land and with it their self-determination hopes.

    As for you getting the propaganda pictures from the ultra right-wing, neoconservative Worldnetdaily.com, that fact alone speakes volumes about your slanted views regarding the middle east and Islam.

  25. Adil Imtiaz Khan from USA

    Asalaam-Alaikum!

    I agree with Ahmed Asghar! Well said. People like Ronnie and Franky need to get educated. yes, innocent people are dying on both sides, the fact is no one bothers to look at why this is happening. To end this, we need to root out the main cause: INJUSTICE. Until that happens, don't be suprised and shocked at every attack. Enough is enough.

  26. Ronni from USA

    BTW, to Osama who posted earlier:

    You said, "They didnt kill him any time but after Fajr (morning) prayer coming out of the mosque. What does this tell us about Israel? IT HAS NO RESPECT FOR ISLAM WHATSOEVER! By doing that act it basically said "screw Islam" excuse my language."

    Let's be 4 real here, okay?

    Muslims brag about how they pray 5 times a day, right? So, at practically any time of day (except in the middle of the night) a Muslims will be either getting ready for prayer or coming out from it. Would you feel better if they did in the dark of night when no prayers were going on? Let's be serious.

    You also said: "We are Peace Makers and not terrorists."

    I have not seen or heard about Muslims as a whole being "peace makers" since the time Islam began. During your prophet's lifetime alone, there were more than 60 battles that the Muslims fought in!

    WHEN has Islam EVER been at peace, either with the rest of the world or even with themselves? Please educate me here, cause I've read LOTS of Islamic history and it's riddled with battle after battle and conquest after conquest.

    Where exactly IS this peace that Islam is supposed to bring? You can't even stop fighting among yourselves, let alone get along with the rest of the world.

  27. Ronni from USA

    So, what this author is trying to tell us is that the Spanish are "great people" because they recognize that it was their country's own fault that HUNDREDS of innocent people died?!?!?!

    If these "Islamic fanatics" have a problem with the GOVERNMENT, why do they then find it justifiable to go after the INNOCENTS of the country??? Is this guy serious? Does he not see the tremendous FLAW in his NON-logic, here?

    The people who committed this great injustice to INNOCENT people will receive the ultimate punishment of hell for all eternity for what they have done.

  28. Nick Cameron from United States of America

    Peace Yahya Bergum!

    The reason I originally said that it seems that many Palestinian parents are irresponsible are because of the propaganda coming out of the Palestinian side of this war. The following are just a few of many pictures I've seen:

    http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pal-child-abuse/index.php?imgIndex=0&autoShow=off

    http://www.jerusalem.indymedia.org/news/2002/10/80893_comment.php

    http://www.geocities.com/guiltypalestinianteachersparents/

    You might find some of the articles on these sites objectionable, but those pictures seem authentic to me. And I've seen many others from various websites. Here are a couple articles from the World Net Daily's website regarding Palestinian children:

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30866

    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27365

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17707

    Anyways, this is why I initially said what I said about irresponsible Palestinian parents.

    Peace out!

  29. Nick Cameron from United States of America

    Peace Yahya Bergum!

    I think the reason why I'm not so quick to judge IDF troops is because of our own history. Viet Nam demonstrated to us that we live in a world in which even children carry bombs. From 30 ft away, rocks don't look excessively different from grenades to me. How would I react with my adrenaline flowing and my heart poinding? In any event, I must emphasize that I don't know what IDF troops are thinking when hit children who throw rocks. Ultimately, the only way people could find out is if these soldiers stood before a hearing or something similar. Whether such things take place is something I don't know.

    Peace out!

  30. Ahmed Asgher from Bahrain

    Franky says "i'm sick and tired of hearing and seeing this bullshit conflict." and he wants a final war to settle the conflict. He also says it was not fair that Palestinians had to give up 50% of their country but he is a firm believer of "I came, I saw, I conquered." Need I say more of the type of people we expect to be human beings when dealing with injsutices around the world! People who profess devotion to Christ who said "Do unto other.."

    let me ask you Frnky boy: What if you and your family were at the brunt of this Zionist paln and had your ancestral home and farm stolen from you and most of your family either killed, amimed or send into exile and later some 50 years on you saw your tormentors being given the high mantle in society whislt you still had to fight for a crust of bread. And to add insult to injury you were given NO recourse whatsoever to take your case to any court in the land. In short you were reduced to zilch.

    Tell me: How would you react? But let me tell you you'd still be "sick" as you mentioned it but add to it. Enraged and perhaps suicidal - and please spare me the Mahtma Ghandi feelings - I am yet to see a white American have such high ideals.

    And I tell what you really would not want. That is knowing that your enemy is armed to his teeth with the latest arsenal and funded by the biggest super-power whilst you have nothing except some stones and stone-age weapons and no access to other lands to gain weapons then let me tell you Franky boy - THE LAST THING YOU"D WANT IS AN OPEN WAR coz that would be suicidal BUT if that be the case then why not take some of your tormentors with you to hell. Perhpas now you get the message.

    For one try putting yourself in someone else's shoes b4 you decalre open war on them.

  31. Ali Muhammad from USA

    I am writing after reading about the Muslim student who was denied a job in Italy because officials thought "...children would be afraid of her."

    There is the popular hadith which states that if any part of the ummah hurts, then all of us should feel the pain.

    When I finished reading about this kind Muslimah mother of two, I wept in front of my wife, who regularly wears hijab out in public in the United States.

    When anyone reflects on the word oppression, it's easy to place the term deep in the past, indirectly assuming that oppression somehow is antiquated.

    I'm no longer in denial. Oppression is an everyday reality for most Muslims around the world. Ironically, Muslims very likely have the most freedom to practice their deen in the United States, a country typically known for its support of unsavory leaders in Israel and in the Middle East. Even more ironic and definitely tragic is that, while we have freedom in the U.S., several American Musilm women don't even bother to wear

    hijab, and too many men can't be bothered to pray or to seek knowledge for the sake of Allah.

    What is the answer to the tyranny and madness in today's world. As Muslims, we must make education of our youth a top priority. It's easy for all of us to build new masjids, but what will we do if one day there's no one interested in attending because they don't know anything about their deen?

    Another answer is that Muslims have to be better organized. As a revert to Islam, I've observed how too often we are unorganized when a major news event happens.

    Take, for example, the movie the Passion of the Christ. I know Islamicity.com has featured articles on the issue, but the effect is simply "preaching to the choir," a popular saying which means that we already agree with what you're saying. How many of us have attempted to contact the mainstream media, our non-Muslim friends, or our government officials?

    Muslims, let's start loving our um

  32. Hudd D'Alhamd from Canada

    Ahmed Ashgher I have to congratulate you for your comments. They are very entertaining and such precise darts in Nick's Bull's eye that is hilarious. It seems that Nick became sort of boxing sack for this audience.

    I approve with the article more than being neutral. Only, I strongly believe, that all these things are preventable, 9/11, 3/11 and all the killing. I wish that either USA or Israel wouldn't need some kind of apocalyptic human catastrophe to be compelled to do things right. Maybe, from where I stand, Canada, the situation out there in Israel/Palestine has a simple, common sense resolusion. It makes you wonder, why? Could you answer that Uri Avnery? In my regard, I believe that either the Israelis and the Palestinians would like to live like anybody else in the world at large, meaningful lives! What freedom is that in a highly militarized state like Israel, in a wonderful climate. But empty streets, empty shops, scared to death people, not socializing, but ever in foreboding expectation: where? When? On the other side, the Palestinians with no future, no life, curfew, razor-wires, checkpoints, soldiers, soldiers and again soldiers...one wonders, "Is the whole nation of Israel just a huge military base?" There is a 1967 Green Line. Why can't Israel stand by that? Because of Jerusalem? Make Jerusalem a Universal City. Make it an example of co-existence, gun free, police like in used to be London England(not anymore) only batons, no side weapon. Make it a capital crime to have a gun in Jerusalem for anybody. Then have two states Israel and Palestine. It sounds simplistic from here, Canada, I know, the cold makes us sleepy and dreamy, I guess...

  33. Yahya Bergum from USA

    Yes, Nick, peace be with you. I was referring to an Israel Army sniping incident that you had fairly recently (as I recall) not appeared to consider hypothetical. I apologize for having perhaps misunderstood your previous comments on the matter.

    With all due respect, dear brother, you make yourself sound heartless and in my opinion misguided when you dismiss Israel Army shootings of recalcitrant children. (Are we no more than beasts?) Were any of the members of America's armed forces or law enforcement agencies to engage in that sort of thing, they would find themselves "crucified" throughout the American media. If an American political appointee was to imply that the parents of a child shot by a police officer for throwing a rocks at a patrol car were the ones responsible for their child's death, that political appointee would shortly thereafter find themselves unemployed. As to why otherwise sensible sounding Americans would seem to tolerate that sort of behavior on the part of America's allies is beyond my comprehension, particularly when those otherwise sensible sounding Americans are partially footing the bill.

    Now, as for my previous speculation regarding the apparent inclination on your part to start arguments at funerals, I for one am grateful that you have made the effort, in your initial response to this particular article, to continue the discussion elsewhere. (Grateful to God, that is.) Again, peace be with you.

  34. k2 from USA

    Why this fixation on Israel and Palestine? Are there no other Muslims suffering in the world?

    Also, don't most Muslim respond to any incident by blaming America instead of their own dictators or Kings.

    Why don't we clean up our own act first before blaming the whole world for it lack of logic.

  35. Osama Abdulatif from USA

    In the name of Allah the Most Gracious the Most Merciful

    This is a war against Islam! How are we terrorists? First off, America is helping out Israel, its bombing Iraq and bombing Afghanistan. They are killing our brothers and sisters...What kind of a war on terrorism...WHO ARE THE TERROISTS...AMERICA! WHO ARE THE KILLERS?! Secondaly what happened in Israel two days ago...Shaikh Yassin was known as the Shaikh of Palestine and they killed him with three missles from a helicopter! They didnt kill him any time but after Fajr (morning) prayer coming out of the mosque. What does this tell us about Israel? IT HAS NO RESPECT FOR ISLAM WHATSOEVER! By doing that act it basically said "screw Islam" excuse my language. Lastly we got the hijab in France. What people don't understand is that hijab is something that Muslims women MUST wear. The cross and the skullcap are something that you can wear. France is trying to seperate "chruch and state" but what they dont understand is that Islam is the way Muslims run thier lives...you cant seperate it. This is a war against Islam and it is a war in which we as muslims must show the world who we really are. We are Peace Makers and not terrorists. May Allah help our brothers and sisters and children all around the world. May Allah help them from the suffering that they go through every day. May Allah help us and guide us the straight path. Amen

  36. Omer Hussain from USA

    The author in this article was quickly ignorant to say that since Israel and the United States sometimes commits crimes against civilians. Muslim's themselves should go off and kill innocent civilians also. This gives reason to go to war. Killing innocent by no means should be a symbol for victory. Yes the Iraq war is still unanswered, but when these attacks happen it gives the United States and Israel credibility for the attacks they start worldwide. Peaceful protest, public awareness, advertising, media, and financial support against these oppressions should be means used to justify our negative feelings towards war on terror. The people of Israel don't want people coming into their homes and blowing up. Palestinians don't want to get shot inside their homes. In the name of Politics innocent people suffer. Israeli's, Palestinians, and the Spaniards.

  37. Yahya Bergum from USA

    I think your advice is first rate, Sue Walters, but please bear in mind that the intifada was the cornerstone of the current PM's "election campaign." The intifada was incited by the PM's and his party's 1000+ show of force on the Temple Mount in 2000 (CE). The intifada would appear to have served his party and his party's camp followers well in the time that has elapsed since he and his party first incited it. Personally, I am guessing that he and his party are not so concerned with Israel's right to defend itself as with Israel's need to do so.

  38. Nick Cameron from United States of America

    Comments to Akbar Khan and Ahmed Asgher.

    Akbar Khan:

    Why do you keep attacking people just because they disaqgree with you? You should learn to be nicer to people because most are decent fellows.

    Ahmed Asgher:

    I did not wage war against an entire country, for I am but a simple man. End of story.

  39. Akbar Khan from Canad

    You want war huh Franky boy? You and your psycho babble are the perfect example for Muslims to use in identifying intellectual derelicts that make up American society. If you want an all out war that mirrors the way you would conduct a war, either do one of two things...stop giving Israeli psychopaths like yourself, hte most advanced armament and artillery in the world, or equip Palestinians with funding nad infrastructure and a military budget the way you have done for Israel for 5 decades. In any case if this is what you want, then this is what you should DO.

    Palestinians want Israeli's to stop assasinating their leaders, and they want them to stop shooting their children in the heads, for them to stop demolishing thousands of their homes; to stop confiscating their 1000 year old property, farming lands, houses, roads, wealth by snaking a God forsaken wall through their homes.

    It's good that finally you silly American, you can admit that you don't give a damn about who wins, but goes to show to the entire world your true courage..bravo peace maker and saviour to humanity, mr. I live in the most powerful country in the world, I am so proud to wear a shirt that looks like the star spangled banner....what a disappointment....go read Mr. Clark's new book and watch his testimony at the 9/11 enquiries and direct your ridiculous rage towards your administration.

  40. Franky from Canada

    ... So according to you, whenever terrorist want to influence politics in a country, all they have to do is kill hundreds of innocent people in a train blast. Thank god that in Spain, the king still has the real power and not the prime minister, so it doesn't matter really who they elect in Spain, the king still has the final say. As for the middle east, Isreal will never bend it's knee to terrorist and neither should anyone else. If you can remember your history, in the late 1940s, the region was under the control of the British. This means that the Palestinians were conquered and it was the right for the English to devide the land as they saw fit and they did!!! Half given to the Jews and Half given to the Palestinians. I'm not saying that this was fair, but when you are a conquered people at the time you have no say!! They should have lived with what was given to them and biuld a strong lasting country. Did this happen?? Of course not, guess the people were not smart enough to do so. So they resort to suicide bombing. Other countries have tried to push the jews into the sea and failed. So Isreal took more land. I'm sure you know the history....

    I just want to point out the mentality of the palestinians which to me was perfectly reflected in the comments of the new HAMAS leader. He said that his dream was to see is two sons grow up and becaome suiside bombers against Israel. This coming from a doctor for children. What kind if dream it that to have for your kids???? When I heard this, i lost all respect for those people. The only way i can see this conflict coming to an end is for one side to have total victory in a major battle. Hopefully it happens soon, because i'm sick and tired of hearing and seeing this bullshit conflict. There are a lot of people who think like me, so don't fool yourself. Look at the history, look at the facts and look at the realistic solutions...

  41. Sue Walters from usa

    Israel has elected 5 PMs, of different political beliefs, for several decades, to deal with these death cults.

    Leftist thought has no context, or logical reasoning.

    As long as the death cults use murder of innocents to achieve their political ends, they will fail, as all blackmail fails in the end.

    Evidence of that failure is clear, for what have the death cults accomplished for their people, but to live in squalor, to live under tyranny, and to refuse modernity.

    Mass denial, and brainwashing the young for suicide is 7th century thinking, and the proof is in front of your eyes.

    Work hard, educate, produce, invent, and create, will be your sweetest revenge.

  42. Kovitz from Canada

    thing to ponder in this article...

    The Spanish asked themselves, why did they do it?

    Same as 9/11. They must be a reason!

  43. Ahmed Asgher from Bahrain

    Nick Cameron again:

    "Once we finish our tasks in Iraq"

    Pray tell us what is that. You must have a direct line to the President Nick! Even a true blooded American never gloats like this!

    And please spare me the words "terrorists' and "bringing democracy to Iraq".

    I will make one bold prediction: America will have its tail between its legs when she leaves Iraq. It has bitten more than it can chew. Destruction of a country and murdering of civilians has a price and karma will visit you. That is the difference between you and the Spaniards for they know not to interfere in other people's affairs when those people have not done them any harm. Sooner or later if you poke your dirty nose in other people's affairs it will get burnt. Mark my words. That is the nature of this universe. It is only a question of time. History is there for those who want to learn lessons - but your idiot President actually boasted that he does not read books and that the only book he reads is the Bible! So much for idiots.

    So, tell us Nick: What is your grand mission for Iraq now that you have waged an illegal war on a defenseless country? By the way try picking on someone your own size for a change, like say, China? They have lotsa WMD and have threatened and invaded their neighbours and they don't have a good human rights record.

  44. Waqas Ahmed from Scotland, Uk

    I agree that changing of the leaders with ones who listen to the public is the right way forward, leaders who do not ignore voice of their people. Although I strongly disagree with Israel and agree with the Palestinians, I have no doubt in mind that both people of Israel and Palestine want peace. For one moment if people put their differences aside, they'll realise their mistakes and end this violent circle of death. The only energy feeding this cycle of death are political decision makers, some from inside and others from outside. Everyone knows who is pulling the strings, then why not put sensible people at the front to make healthier decisions. Author has done a good job highlighting differences. I don't agree to what happened in Madrid was right, but I too congratulate the Spanish people who think for themselves and don't let their leaders take them for a ride like us here in UK.

  45. Yahya Bergum from USA

    So if Americans are expected to kiss kosher backside, how about the author's? Can we vote on it? Possibly in November?

  46. Nick Cameron from United States

    I'm going to comment here because I'm fairly certain that this article is not so controversial.

    I agree that America's efforts in the War on Terror may have been misplaced. Fact is that our enemies weren't really hiding in Iraq. As the Madrid bombings demonstrate, they are presently hiding in EUROPE. Once we finish our tasks in Iraq, we should concentrate more on helping our allies throughout the world fight terrorism. Al Qaeda is a network, so we must network accordingly.