Israel: A Failing Experiment

Category: Middle East, World Affairs Topics: Occupation Views: 10769
10769

Israel's First Minister of Education, Professor Ben-Zion Dinur (1954), said it most sharply; "In our country there is room only for the Jews. We shall say to the Arabs: Get out! If they don't agree, if they resist, we shall drive them out by force." (History of the Haganah.) With this theme as the explicit backdrop of a newly established State, it is no wonder that Israel has had little chance of being a normal member of the state of nations.

Individual Israeli achievements in fields like science and technology are impressive. However, for all modern intent and purpose, the State of Israel, as a state building model, is a failing experience -- ideologically, religiously, politically, socially and, if US favorite nation status were removed, possibly economically as well. Without immediate and decisive intervention from the world community to stop the ongoing Israeli aggression on Palestinians, Israel's intransigence and US-equipped regional hegemony will not only fuel another generation of Palestinians willing to sacrifice their lives in order to end Israel's illegal occupation, but will also further jeopardize Israel's basic premise that explicit religious discrimination, namely a Jewish-only state, is an accepted basis for statehood in modern times.

In spite of the above comments by Israel's First Minister of Education (and reinforced by many other Israeli leaders), Israel was founded on its infamous fallacy that it was built on a 'land with no people, for a people with no land'. Israel has utterly failed to persuade the world, and more recently more of its own people, that this was a valid premise for statehood. Also, given the fact that Historic Palestine was inhabited prior to Israel being created, Israel has been unable to ignore that this very same fallacy is a raw form of outright racism. Israel expelled more than one half of the indigenous Palestinian population in 1948. Ever since, Israel has assumed a policy of civil discrimination, political imprisonment, torture, deportations, beatings, collective punishment, political assassinations, settlement building, economic dominance, the list is endless and intensified after the Israeli military occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem in 1967. For being an 'empty' land, the complications that Palestine posed to the implantation of a Western state in the midst of the Middle East seemed overwhelming.

Since its inception, Israel has arrogantly refused to address the most crucial prerequisite of its establishment as a conventional State -- accepting the Palestinians -- those people that just happened to be living in that 'empty' land of Israel. The Palestinians, those that were forcefully expelled from their homes in 1948, 1967, and more recently in 2001, and have been living in squalid refugee camps throughout the region. The Palestinians, those that did not flee in 1948 and are now fourth class Israeli citizens. The Palestinians, those that have lived under Israeli military occupation in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem for over 34 years.

After five decades of conflict, and after nearly a decade of Palestinian political recognition of Israel on part of their lands, the Israeli people choose to sustain the conflict and elected another of its most notorious war criminals, Ariel Sharon. Sharon has been charged, as captain of the vanguard, to lead Israel into its sixth decade of conflict. Today, Israel seems determined more than ever to forcefully prove the original premise of its statehood - an Israel with moveable borders and a Jewish-only population. Ten Israeli Prime Ministers before Sharon, four of them after the signing of Oslo, failed. Prime Minister Sharon will fail as well. If Israel can not produce a leader to move the country from a pariah state to a member state of the Middle East, no one will be to blame for the consequences, no matter how severe, but the Israeli people themselves.

This should not come as a surprise for Israelis who have studied their own history. Israel's founding Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion, understood it well when he said, "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that? (David Ben-Gurion quoted in "The Jewish Paradox" by Nahum Goldmann, former president of the World Jewish Congress.)

Similarly, it should be no surprise that Israeli Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, rushed to sign the now failed Oslo Peace Accords after calculating the historic ramifications of the political earthquake that took place when a 
Palestinian leader, Yasir Arafat, politically recognized the State of Israel. Rabin paid for that signature with his life, which was taken by one of his own citizens, a fanatic Jewish student. This was as close as Israel has ever been in closing the last chapter of its establishment.

Every step of the way, as Israel further entrenched its illegal occupation of the Palestinians they have been continuously rewarded by the United States of America. Israel has been propped up, financially and politically, by every single US administration at the expense of internationally unconscious US taxpayers, fully obedient to the direction of the far-reaching Israeli lobby. What started as a US strategic ally in one of the most sensitive spots in the world during a Cold War that marred common sense, has rapidly digressed into a liability in an age of globalization that the United States alone is spearheading. While the Bush Administration continues to ignorantly turn a blind eye to Israel's blatant violations of international law and human rights, the United States runs the fear that the globalized world will start to question the moral authority inherent in the US's unfettered support of an Israel that publicly pursues a policy that only has the intransigence to move an entire region into long-term political and economic turmoil. Countries that have bought into the New World Order of Globalization should start to internalize the consequences to themselves, if the US, in a world it single-handily runs, chooses to defend the wrong side of history at its will.

Today, Israel must choose between continuing an illegal occupation and preserving the self-defined nature of the State of Israel itself. To think that both can peacefully co-exist is utter ignorance of history and human development. Also, for Israel to believe that the US will continue to jeopardize its New World Order of Globalization for the sake of fulfilling an Israeli illusion of Palestinian submission is a miscalculation to the nth degree.


Mr. Sam Bahour is a Palestinian-American, born and raised in Youngstown, Ohio, who relocated to his family's home in Al-Bireh, West Bank immediately following the signing of the 1993 Oslo Peace Accords. He is co-author of HOMELAND: Oral Histories of Palestine and Palestinians (1994) and can be reached at [email protected]


  Category: Middle East, World Affairs
  Topics: Occupation
Views: 10769

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Older Comments:
YAHYA BERGUM FROM USA said:
Shalom Aleichem. The following are selections from www.jewsagainstzionism.com/holocaust/holocaustpics.htm

Ben Gurion informed a meeting of Labor Zionists in Great Britain in 1938: "If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in Germany by bringing them over to England and only half of them by transporting them to Eretz Israel, then I opt for the second alternative." Ibid., p.149.

As late as 1943, while the Jews of Europe were being exterminated in their millions, the U.S. Congress proposed to set up a commission to "study" the problem. Rabbi Stephen Wise, who was the principal American spokesperson for Zionism, came to Washington to testify against the rescue bill because it would divert attention from the colonization of Palestine. This is the same Rabbi Wise who, in 1938, in his capacity as leader of the American Jewish Congress, wrote a letter in which he opposed any change in U.S. immigration laws which would enable Jews to find refuge. He stated:

"It may interest you to know that some weeks ago the representatives of all the leading Jewish organizations met in conference ... It was decided that no Jewish organization would, at this time, sponsor a bill which would in any way alter the immigration laws." Ibid.

Chaim Weizmann, the first president of Israel, made this Zionist policy very explicit:
The hopes of Europe's six million Jews are centered on emigration. I was asked: "Can you bring six million Jews to Palestine?" I replied, "No." ... From the depths of the tragedy I want to save ... young people [for Palestine]. The old ones will pass. They will bear their fate or they will not. They are dust, economic and moral dust in a cruel world ... Only the branch of the young shall survive. They have to accept it.

Chaim Weizmann reporting to the Zionist Congress in 1937 on his testimony before the Peel Commission in London, July 1937. Cited in Yahya, p. 55.
2003-10-15

ZAKI said:
Marcus, why don't u try to use some common sense? There are more indians living outside their country than jews. How come no body has problems living with them as we have with jews? Have u ever tried to read of the reasons that caused the jews to be hated. Even the Qur'an mentions that the jews are the "chosen-ones", but how come there are many verses both in the Qur'an and the Bible which shows how notorious and unfaithful they were to the people and to God. True they are the chosen ones, BUT ONLY IF THE FOLLOW GOD'S LAWS AND RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE.
2003-10-11

YAHYA BERGUM FROM USA said:
Marcus, in the interest of dialog, have you never heard of "hostile possession" - as a method for territorial expansion? While I will grant you that the process is surely facilitated by an absence of resistance it is not I would say
a peaceable process.

So have you seen where the "peaceful Israelis" are constructing the so-called fences? Please read the newspaper.

Peace be with you.

--Yahya Bergum
2003-10-09

PAUL MORLAND FROM UK said:
It is quite appropriate for an Islamic web site to condemn Israel as a failed experiment, given the stunning success of so many Islamic societies. What a pity that Israel does not have:
- the economic dynamism and prosperity of Egypt
- the openness and democracy of Syria
- the tolerance of other faiths of Sudan
- the governmental stability of Somalia
- the absence of army interference in politics of Turkey
- the gentle treatment of opposition elements of Malaysia
- the women's right of Saudi Arabia
- the democracy of Algeria
- the separation of religion and politics of Iran
- the human rights of Libya
Being a single tiny Jewish state, surrounded by enemies determined to strangle it, is no excuse for the dreadful way Israel falls short of its Islamic neighbours.
2003-10-09

AKBAR KHANQ FROM CANADA said:
Marcus...I will counter your ignorant, biblical armageddon Jack Van Impe paranoia statements one by one.

1) It's the other way around, for the last 50+ years, Israel has oppressed Palestinians. Palestinians didn't make Jews leave Germany, Nazi's did. Palestinians didn't make Jews suffer in Pharoah's Egypt, the Egyptians of the time did. Palestinians ARE NOT oppressing Jews in the former USSR.

2) Palestinians have every right ot have high birth rates...take your obsene slurs somewhere else.

3)Jews are not God's chosen people according to God, and Moses (pbuh) in the bible, who curse them forever for their rejection of God's commandments. On the other hand, the Qur'an doesn't curse the Jews, your very own version of the present day bible instead, does.

Obviously a person like you, thinks a person who hates jews, is someone who is an anti-semite.

Now I will teach you...
Semite comes from the word Shem, or the people of Shem, the people of Prophet Noah (pbuh)... therefore there is no direct or indirect relationship between the Jewish people and the label of Semite. In fact, the label Anti-Semite can be applied to anyone who commits hate crimes against a group of people who speak a semetic language, there are 3 that I know of, and a 4th one I am not sure of...they are Hebru, Arabic, ______, and Aramaic. Jesus (pbuh) spoke Aramaic....so that means that the Jews who committed crimes against him and threw stuff at him and called him names, were being anti-Semetic since Jesus (pbuh) did speak Aramaic?....

My point to you is...wake up from you fantasy of "chosen people," get in touch with reality and what is going on in the world. Don't cite me with ZNN or Fox news either...Wake up and smell the humous. By the way, Zionism = Nazism, and Sharon = Hitler.

A Muslim.............Forever.
2003-10-09

MUZ FROM MALAYSIA said:
Dear John Norman,

u wrote "Israel was recognised by the UN in 1948 as a Jewish State. End of story."

Dear my lovely friend, U r 100% correct! but did u check Israel border between 1948 until now? Did u measure their border properly? U only heard and read the story from Israel... try to look from Palestine side. Did u ever done it?

2003-10-09

YAHYA BERGUM FROM USA said:
Marcus, in the interest of dialog, have you never heard of "hostile possession" - as a method for territorial expansion? While I will grant you that the process is surely facilitated by an absence of resistance it is, I would say, definitely not a peaceable process.

The last I heard, here in some of these United States, it was still a legitimate means of acquiring property - depending on the circumstances. Then again, the prior occupants have the right to take the lives of the encroaching party's members, in the course of reversing or forestalling the process.

So have you seen where the "peaceful Israelis" are constructing the so-called fences? Please read the newspaper already.

Peace be with you.

--Yahya Bergum
2003-10-09

JASON FROM UNITED STATES said:
I think that Israel is instead a pretty successful state. As horrible and as bad as their ways may be in many views, there is no way to deny the state. With the backing of the United States for so long, as well as England's, Israel retains so much hegemony. As much as many nations want to, there is no way to reject Israel because in turn you would be rejecting the United States which can't be done, as much as the US is hated. In fact the US is another example of the method that Israel was established as colonists drove out the Native Americans. They were accepted as a state, as Israel soon will be, if it's not already accepted. Israel is also a very prosperous nation despite suicide bombings. You can't deny the state.
2003-10-09

CHARLES JACKS FROM USA said:
Ah Markus the Christian. Please read the parable of the rented house in Mathew. Jesus clearly indicated the Jews were no longer the chosen people. They failed to keep the covenant and therefore it was canceled. In doing so they also lost the right to the land.
If more Christians would read what Jesus said and stopped listening to failed preachers who don't know Jesus well enough to know what he said, the world would probably be in a much better condition.

As the Jews have tried to take the land by force without recognition of the rights of the Palestinians to their land, they have brought justified anger and persecution upon themselves. Do the Palestinians not have the right to defend their homeland?

One might agree that the Jews need some land but one would then also agree that they would have to obtain it in a manner agreeable to all involved. Killing and stealing is a violation of all known laws including their own. Remember the words "thou shalt not kill" thou shalt not steal". How plain can it get?

Given that they wish to go against Gods will in such a violent way then it might be better for humanity that they stay dispersed and not be able to reinforce each other is such a reprehensible flaunting of Gods commandments.
2003-10-09

MUSLIM FROM USA said:
To Marcus and John Norman,

Marcus please read history and travel to any Muslim country before you make judgements. The Jews of today are oppressing the Muslims all over the world with their power and influence, they are the ones who are waging war against us and demonizing us at the same time. God is Just, Allah doesn't give anyone the right to oppress others solely because of their geneology or race.

Christians have always had this flaw thinking that the oppressed should accept their fate because those doing the oppression have the God given right to do so, as they have thought at the time of the American and Australian native exterminations; they said the same when they colonized most of the world's countries and they continue today with their support of the zionist state.

As to John Norman, you are wrong about me. I hate violence, but I also hate tyranny wherever there is. I do not hate Jews, but I hate those who subjugate the Palestinians and those among them who hate Muslims.

To simply say what goes around comes around translates to "love death and killing" is really laughable. It is the law of God to punish tyrants, whether in this world or in the hereafter.

Any third party who comparatively reads our posts would find your posts being more close to reactionary than mine.
2003-10-09

AHMED FROM UK said:
Marcus, Jews are the not only people who have been oppressed. They have NO right to be on Palestinian soil where they conducted over a half century of ethnic cleansing.
What sick Armageddonist Christians like need to do is give your lovely "chosen people" your personal property. Your own western guilt has nothing to do with the Palestinian people.
2003-10-08

MARCUS FROM USA said:
Why can you not let the Israeli people live in peace, it has been shown thru out history that the Jewish people have always been a opressed people that have suffered from the acient days of Eqypt to the modern days of the Nazis, and even today in the former U.S.S.R. The need a land and the ability to protect them selves, do you see if Arabs come into the country they will eventually take over with there high birth rates and opress the Jews once again....God bless the chosen people!

A Christian.....
2003-10-08

AHMED FROM UK said:
As usual Norman you have nothing of any merit to add to the discussion. I expect nothing less from jewish terrorist sympathizers. Clearly the lessons of history are wasted on your tribe.
To the contrary, trolling Muslim websites makes you look quite like the jewish clown that you are. As I stated earliar you are boring and ever so predictable. Why dont go join the IDF instead of wasting time posting here ? I didnt think so...
2003-10-08

JOHN NORMAN FROM UK said:
To ahmed and Muslim: Once again, the argument that it is impossible to have a debate with totalitarians, whether of the fascist or the socialist species, proves to be all too true.

Ahmed: I'm afraid you are completely ignorant. You should do some homework before making yourself look completely silly on these pages.

Muslim: Your love of death and killing is all too apparent in your remarks. They are deplorable.
2003-10-08

K2 FROM USA said:
How about an article on "Saudia Arabia: A failing Racist Monarchy"? At least Israel will accept any Jew regardless of race or ethnicity. Would a Muslim nation do this?

We Muslim are always ready to critisize the world but rarely reflect on our own short comings.

The racist policies of many Muslim nations will only allow people citizenship based on their race and ancestry.
2003-10-07

AHMED FROM UK said:
Give it a rest Norman. I'm not interested in your boring and predictable views. I am against suicide bombings because of the loss of Palestinian life. I do not care for armed jewish settle thugs and gangsters who have no right to Palestinian soil.
Get over yourself and your petty jewish fascism.
2003-10-07

MUSLIM FROM USA said:
John Norman, please stop making up things. The "Mufti of Jerusalem" had nothing to do with the nazis. Jerusalem was at the time under the British, so I wonder how anyone under a colony would have such a power. You are typical of the right wing in this country, you make outrageous and incorrect statements about history because you count on the ignorance of your audience.

Jews should be grateful to Muslims who saved them from European extermination in the middle ages and in WW2. There are numerous historical facts that Jews were treated best in Muslim lands than any other lands, especially compared to the west. Jews had their golden age with wealth and sholarship in Muslim countries. This fact is hated by the zionist who want to demonize Muslims for their interest in usurping the lands of Muslims.

I say to the zionist, go on continue being arrogant, continue with your oppression, do more injustice, it will all go back to you one day, that is the justice of God, as Allah has punished previous unjust people so will Allah punish you. Just look at all the great powers that ruled before, they no longer exist, so will your power disappear when Allah sees it fit.
2003-10-07

JOHN NORMAN FROM UK said:
Ahme: the murder bomber detonated her bomb on the Sabbath, the Jewish day of rest. Is that how Muslims show their respect for "the People of the Book"?
2003-10-07

YAHYA BERGUM FROM USA said:
The American media is suppressing reports of the atrocity in Haifa. Meanwhile all anyone can seem to talk about is Israel's attack on some unoccupied bunker in Syria. Furthermore the atrocity in Haifa supposedly was committed in part to assure the well being of the leader of Palestine's martyrs - was it not?

I mean this in absolute sincerity: arrange a plea bargain for my brother (and enemy) Saddam Hussein to run Palestine - as part of his sentencing. If you don't like that idea, my next suggestion would be to ask Syrian brother Sheikh Mohsen al-Qaqa (who is expressly anti-American) to occupy Palestine at the head of a contingent of the Syrian army.

May Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) have mercy on us all. Assalamu alaikum.

--Yahya Bergum (a Muslim American nationalist)

PS. I fasted for Yom Kippur this year. I have, however, submitted that effort to Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) as a "make-up day" for one of the days of fasting I missed last Ramadan. The Glory is Allah's.
2003-10-07

AHMED FROM UK said:
The failed state attacked Syria on Yom Kippur. I guess this is how jews atone for their sins....by killing more innocent people.
2003-10-06

BAK TANUS FROM SWEDEN said:
I agree. However in light of current developments, its obvious to all that lines have been drawn in the sand with blood of the innocents from both sides. Given the Bush administration's obvious response of blaming the victim- which invariably is an Arab/Muslim country, it is simply bewildering why Arabs and the Muslim world are still confused over US/Israeli designs and plans for the Mid-East. As much as one would like to term Israeli's response a reaction to fight terrorism or defend itself, the fact is that such an assumption is just utterly rubbish. Syria was next on the US list for the longest time, and the US is shamelessly and openly complicit in the attack on Syria. The recent events in the US senate and congress supporting an attack of Syria confirm that. The UN plays the usual role of either echoing racist US and Israeli sentiments in supporting US/Israeli policies or displaying by their silence an emasculated entity whose function and need is yet to be understood. It is now high time for Arab countries to respond in kind. Why the fear of death when oppression is far worse. When death is inevitable is it not better to live one day the courageous life of a tiger, than a thousand days, the life of sheep.
2003-10-06

MAT FROM MALAYSIA said:
Busy day eh, Mr.Norman?
2003-10-06

CHARLES JACKS FROM USA said:
To me Israel is one of those test cases God creates to see if people will pay attention. The Jews are told to heal the world and create peace. They were told that if they would return to the covenant and create an Israel by spirit instead of force and might that they could have their peace.
The Christians were told the Jews were no longer the chosen people and to love their neighbor as themselves and yet they blindly support what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians and promote racism and xenophobia.
Woe to those that can't tell the difference between good and evil. It is a simple task after all. But they are trapped. There are spirits that can confuse a human into thinking good is evil and evil is good. And if anyone worships something other than The Creator they will be abandoned to violence to their soul. Take a look at Bush. He supports the Israelis, says "you are either with us or against us" and plunges two countries into utter chaos. And then he wonders out loud "why do they hate us". If anyone has lost control of their frontal lobes Bush has.
It doesn't really matter whether you worship a prophet (pfoG) or worship your own race (pfoG) you are trapped as soon as you start worshiping other than God, for humans have no protection from such spirits but The Creator.
So how do you live within a world in which the majority don't know and can't tell how sick they are? You set out to heal the world and create peace. This cannot be effective without first reviving monotheism, returning peoples attention to The Creator. The stair steps to heaven are closed by God from the top down but God reopens them from the bottom up.
2003-10-06

SYED FROM USA said:
israel is judged by its actions not but those who sepnd thier useless lives trying to justify its illegal existence..Mr ramesh called many muslim states as failed including pakistan...which is naturally his inborn indian hatred for my country. he needs to get his facts right and go back to see its india that burns 600 muslims alive..its india with majority of most ignorant and racist people including their popular bjp. need more to say ???...good luck mr ramesh and live ure whole life cursing us...u`ll die in vain
2003-10-06

AHMED FROM UK said:
This article is good but doesnt go far enough. Notice how all the 5 disagreements from the same person - a jewish terrorist sympathizer.
2003-10-05

ABDUL SAMEER FROM UNITED KINGDOM said:
Mr.Bahour hits the nail right in the head when he says that despite all its achievements, the state of Isarel is a failed state.Israel , with its aggressive and hostile policies towards Palestinians and arabs has contributed towards this sorry state of its affairs.What good is a state when it can't provide security to its people.I feel pity for Israelis as well as Palestininas because Israel's policies are affecting people on both sides.It is high time that Israeli govenrnment recognises that you can't gain porsperity and security for your country by humiliating Palestinians and Arabs.
2003-10-05

YAHYA BERGUM FROM USA said:
His safety? O Allah, save Palestine.

Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'un.

La ilaha ill Allah. Muhammad-ar Rasool-Allah.

A'uthoo billahi minash-Shaitanir-rajeem.

--Yahya Bergum
2003-10-05

S.Z. FROM UK said:
The article is littered with inaccuracies and lies. But I am not surprised you published it.
2003-10-05

NADEEM FROM UK said:
Israel is just like Nazi Germany. Israel is solely responsible for destablising the whole middle east and commits genocide and ethnic cleansing of Muslims and Christians. Israel is first and foremost an illegitimate state that would simply collapse if the USA walked away from it. Finally, I would like to say this, if fundamentalist jews are so angry with what the German Nazis did to them in World War 2 then why didnt they create thier 'homeland' in Germany, surely that would have been a just and fitting. Why pick on Palestinian? What did they ever do to them??
2003-10-05

ADIV FROM USA said:
I read with great interest Mr. Bahour's article and applaud his cogent and incisive analysis of the racist and colonialist underpinnings of the Zionist Reich. I would encourage readers in this forum to visit www.nkusa.org and www.jewsagainstzionism.com to learn about the authentic Jewish position on the situation in Occupied Palestine. It is of utmost importance that the entire world, especially our Muslim and Arab cousins, be informed about Judaism's total and uncompromising opposition to the blasphemous, murderous and unG-dly abomination known as "Israel." Authentic Judaism has always fought against the establishment of the Zionist occupation because as Jews in exile for nearly 2,000 years by divine decree, we are forbidden to make any attempt whatsoever to establish a political entity in Palestine. We are forbidden by the Torah to murder, oppress, displace or discriminate against another people, especially the indigenous population of the Holy Land. The Zionists, including those who have an outward appearance of religiosity, are all Kufr (apostates) without exception. They openly ignore the warning of our Sages in the Talmud, who declare that any attempt to reestablish a "state" in the Holy Land will result in a divine decree of death and destruction, the fulfillment of which we are witnesses to on a daily basis. A Jewish soul unsullied by the Zionist heresy cannot help but decry and deplore the sadistic and bestial mistreatment of the Palestinians by the wicked Zionazi army. As true Jews, we commisserate with our Palestinian brethren in their unbearable suffering which is so tragically similar to the suffering of Jews under the Nazis. We pray for the peaceful but utter dissolution of the Zionist Reich, the complete deZionisation of Palestine and the restoration of Palestinian sovereignty over all of the Holy Land, with Al Quds as the capital of the sovereign state of Palestine. Tahya Dawlat Filasteen! Wa salaam.
2003-10-05

MIKE FROM USA said:
It is a matter of time till Israel vanishes. It is an organized group of different people from all over the world with no cultural ties was able to produced a model system. However that system failed to be human. It is just a number of years and Israel will go away forever. It is sad.
2003-10-05

SUHAYB FROM CANADA said:
those comments are all sad. One way or another we have people denying the right of the other. No one can go back in time!!! so lets stop talking about it! on the other hand it must be reminded that contrarily to what is pushed by medias, Jews are not against Muslims, as a matter of fact i'm jewish and i converted to Islam 5 yrs ago. also the holy Torah teachs that Allah will bring back the jewish people in Israel NOT ben gourion. so jews in Palestine YES why not, jewish state NO!!! remember Israel just like Pakistan were created by self proclaimed atheists (ben gourion, moshe dayan and Mohammed Ali Jinnah) who used religion to get populations!! anyway i don't remember who said something about germans but you should know that most of us who were affected directly by ww2 hate Europe MUCH more than the muslim world.
2003-10-04

RABIA FROM US said:
Mr. Chander, try to understand that India itself is a "failed state" as well. I am sure you know this, and yet are still quick to judge the Muslim countries you identified in your original comment.

India is also a terrorist state, look at what its doing now, to the Muslims living in its borders. Surely, you remember what happened to the Muslims living in Gujrat... the burning of masses of innocent people to death, b/c their religious beliefs differ from yours...that is TERRORISM.

How is it that India proudly boasts of its possession of nuclear weapons, yet cannot feed a good portion of its people? A walk down the streets of Bombay confirms this. In this day and age, young children are being forced to become prostitutes, to support their families. Is this an accomplishment, in your eyes? I consider it a failure.

You say that "Yemen, Afghanistan, Sudan, Algeria, Kuwait,Saudi Arabia, Libya, Iran, Iraq..." are "failure" states...is that why they have higher literacy rates than India? Being able to read and write, that sounds like a failure to you?

Let's examine the conflict in Kashmir...again, terrorist bad-boy India continues to perpetuate its aggressive actions toward the Muslims that occupy this land, denying them the most basic right of self-rule (autonomy)..hmm...sounds familiar, no? RIGHT, ISRAELI treatment of Palestinians is the same thing!!!

Lastly, the statistics show that "Health officials fear that as the virus spreads through China and India, the world's two most populous countries, cases of HIV infection in this region may surge up to 25 million cases by the year 2010, dwarfing the problems seen in sub-Saharan Africa. " (taken from Encarta.com)

now, before labeling a state as being a "failure", shouldn't we look at where we're coming from first? Don't judge someone, unless you yourself want to be judged.
2003-10-04

RABIA FROM US said:
This is a very well written article.

Anyone who has a fundamental understanding of European history, knows that what the European Jews went through, at the hands of Hitler, bears a most striking resemblance to the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians. History does repeat itself.

How unfortunate, then, that the US, proclaiming itself to be a beacon of freedom and independence in the Western World, stands by and supports this "Palestinian Holocaust". But it doesn't stop there. The American media, controlled completely by the Zionist lobby, further distorts the facts, with regards to the Israeli occupation. All the time, you hear that Israelis are being attacked, harassed, bombed, etc...what about the IDF and its actions against the Palestinian population? Sharon is a war criminal and Israel is a terrorist state. These are simple facts.

If a boy throws a rock at an ARMED SOLDIER, what kind of idiot can conclude that this boy was A THREAT TO THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL? Throwing the rock? Unjustified, an act of terrorism. Pumping 80 bullets into that boy's body, that's ok, its self-defense. Then you talk about biased.

The Israeli occupation of Palestine is somewhat like what happens if someone seizes your home from you and throws you out into the streets, then proceeds to attack you from inside your own home...try to understand that it's still your home, its rightfully yours.

As far as Israel goes, our nuclear neighbor in the Middle East has the most UN Security Council violations, possesses nukes, and continues to perpetuate a MORE GROTESQUE VERSION OF THE jewish HOLOCAUST ON THE PALESTINIANS. I say more grotesque because this time, the world is deaf to the suffering of the oppressed.
2003-10-04

JOHN NORMAN FROM UK said:
H.A.

Israel was recognised by the UN in 1948 as a Jewish State. End of story.
2003-10-04

JOHN NORMAN FROM UK said:
Muslim: it is also true that there was a Muslim SS Division which killed thousands of Jews and Serbs in Yugoslavia. The Division was founded by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el Husseini. He was tried as a war criminal after the war and sentenced to death, in his absence.

As for your claim that Muslims protected Jews: sometimes they did and sometimes they didn't. The fact remains, that Jews like Zoroastrians, like Hindus, like Christians were, what we would today call, second-class citizens, subjected to discrimination, humiliation and persecution. No amount of looking at Muslim history through rose-tinted glasses will change the facts. Muslims need to wake up and re-examine their history, just as Western culture has had to inrespect of colonialism and imperialism. The sooner you do it, the sooner we can sit over a coffee and talk about many things. Until you do it, there will be no meeting of the minds.
2003-10-04

JOHN NORMAN FROM UK said:
Akhbar: the Philistines were from Crete, were neither Arabs nor Muslims and were, moreover idol worshippers. As a Muslim, you revere King David, King of Israel, a prophet in the Muslim traidition. surely you approve of his defeat of Goliath and the Philistines. Or don't you?
2003-10-04

KOVITZ FROM CANADA said:
Jews, Christians and Muslims used to live together side by side peacefully; they were good neighbors to each other before the creation of Zionism. The whole world has gone into chaos because of this wicked group. They are the humanity cancer that has to be removed.

When I was young I used to watch movies about the W. W. Two and I felt sympathetic to Jews about what Hitler has done to them. Now what they do to the Palestinian people, it is Cruel, Barbarian and Merciless. This has to stop! What goes around will come around.

There are many good Jews in the world:

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/
2003-10-04

AHMAD FARAZ FROM INDIA said:
To romesh:
its not israel vs palestinians its israel vs muslims,
so if anyone is under illusion that extermination of palestinians will solve the problems then i think he is quite naive.
israeli occupation over al aqsa and persecution of fellow muslims aggrieves heart of every single muslim from morocco to philipines.
so israel can exterminate palestinians but cannot muslims.
Israel is bound to fail wether its experiment or a state, for injustice and falsehood never wins how so much powerfull they might be.
this is lesson which you can read from history of of human existance on this planet if you are not aware of it.

"let not disbelievers think our postponing of punishment is good for them, we only postpon it for they can increase in transgression, for them is disgracing torment.""
2003-10-04

H.A. FROM TEL AVIV said:
ISRAEL IS A SELF-DECLARED JEWISH STATE
ISREAL IS A SELF-DECLARED JEWISH STATE
ISRAEL IS A SELF-DECLARED JEWISH STATE
2003-10-04

CHARLES JACKS FROM USA said:
It is simple John. A Muslim state must allow Christians and Jews living within its borders to live in peace. Israel has always intended to ethically cleanse the land it takes by force. Read Zechariah 4:6 and then 5:3.
2003-10-03

CHARLES JACKS FROM USA said:
Self deluded people not only tend to jump off high buildings screaming "I can fly" they also tend to go thud when they come to ground.
2003-10-03

ABDUL GHAFAR FROM USA said:
This is not wholly an Op-Ed piece. The only opinion I detect is the predicted failure of Israel as Nation. Every supporter of Israel is a supporter of lies. They turn their attention from the acknowledging the facts in evidence. The same facts stated in this piece.

If one sets aside for a moment the notion of a "Jewish" state and simply examines the behavior of these so-called statesmen one clearly sees the hypocrisy. The Israelis hold the indigenous Palestinians responsible for all their problems and seek their "final solution" in exterminating them, in the same manner as the Nazis did to the Jews.

They can stifle the efforts of the UN because they have bought America's veto, but they'll never quell the outrage because they are openly, blood thirsty tyrants.
2003-10-03

MUSLIM FROM USA said:
I would like to ask you a simple question John Norman. Since the Germans have killed 6 million Jews would it not be fair that part of their land be given to their victims as compensation?

It is baffling to me that Jews have more hatred toward Muslims and Arabs than they do toward their foremost persecutors the Europeans.

The state of Israel was established by the notion that Jews will never be safe among Europeans due to the long history of oppression they have suffered in those countries.

The irony is that the persecuted European Jews have adopted the Western culture of intolerance and dehumanization of non European people and are now oppressing the Eastern people.

How fast have the Jews forgotten they used to have safe refuge among the Muslims. When the German nazi were killing Jews in Eastern Europe and in the former Yoguslavia many were saved by the Muslim minorities, who hid them in their houses to their personal risk.

Today, the Jews are at the forefront of the persecution and oppression of Muslims.

History has taught us this simple rule, what goes around comes around. Justice will be done sooner or later, because Allah exists and is aware of all that we do.
2003-10-03

AKBAR KHAN FROM CANADA said:
For John Norman: Your comments are full of ignorance. You say that Palestinians are only 80 years old, lol...do you know how rudiculous that makes you look? Did you know in the Holy Bible, the battle between the people of David (Dawood), the Isrealites, were battling the people of Goliath? Remember htat story John...well for your informatoin, in the bible, those people of Goliath were Palestinians or "Philistines. Now, how can anyone trust a guy like John Norman when he says such a big lie like Palestinians are only 80 years old? Israel has really only existed in the land of Palestine for a total of no more than 300 years as a recognized state. For the rest of htat period, it has been called PALESTINE, up until today, and yes since 1948 because wise people can understand that Israel is nothing more than a product of occupation that has never succeeded. In a country where technological advancements are being made, how can these same people be deemed as humane while their state commits war crimes against Palestinians that are par and par with how the Nazi's treated them? John...please, get educated, or else I ask you why do you come here, spread lies, hatred? Yeah...I think that's what it is...
2003-10-03

ALI AKBAR FROM SOMALIA said:
MR.Norman you are a great liar and an occupier of ones land, note that history repeats is self and every wall that has been built has been demolished.
2003-10-03

AHMED FROM UK said:
Not a failing experiment...but a complete failure. Israel is welfare state on US life support, its high time the plug is pulled.
For the sake of world peace, the jewish terrorist state must be dismantled and its leaders tried for war crimes.
2003-10-03

YAHYA BERGUM FROM USA said:
I think there are possibly many options remaining for the enrichment of Israel - perhaps even for Israel's territorial expansion. A tolerance of human suffering however would appear to me to be likely to negate such possibilities.

Surely the Lord of the worlds has given Israel much more than the ground on which it currently resides. What might perhaps be a potential application of one of the protections that the Lord of the worlds has given Israel?

Shalom Aleichem - and Allah bless.

--Yahya Bergum
2003-10-03

SARA FROM USA said:
The distinction of Arab and non Arab is a creation of the British and French occupation of the muslim land, there is no such thing as Arabi and Ajami in the Muslim world, this notion was rooted out more than 1400 years ago by Islam and it was brought back by the Europeans to divide and conquer. Right now if you are "white" then no matter what 'accent' you speak English in is acceptable (I cite the hue and cry by local radio hosts about the English pronunciation of Arnold Shwarzneggar and how it is perfectly ok if he cannot say california but says Caleefornia but the same Americans laugh at Indians, Pakistanis, and Mexican accents when they speak English) similarly in those days before colonizations a person's primary identity was muslim and the non Arabs were accepted by Arabs as teachers and advisors even if they couldnt pronounce Arabic as Arabs did. Now thanks to colonization, muslims have become Arabs, Turks, Africans etc.
2003-10-03

ROMESH CHANDER FROM US said:
The title contains the word "Experiment".

Israel is not an experiment. Experiments are done to obtain new insights into existing theories and to revise those theories when necessary or to come with new theories; when completed, they are stopped. Israel is a REAL entity whose effects are being felt throughgout the muslim world; muslims have been fighting it for the last 55 years; it defeated the mighty arab armies in 1948, 1956, 1967 and even in 1973, which forced Egypt to sign peace treaty. You don't sign peace treaties with 'experimental' organizations, only with live and real ones.

Israel is not a 'failed state' like Yemen, Afghanistan, Sudan, Algeria, Kuwait/Saudi Arabia (no independent foreign policy), Libya, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan. Would anybody like to call these states as 'experiments'!. It is hard to call any of these as states (most of them are lawless), not even to talk of being nations. Israel is a very smart state; US guarantees its existence and even pays for it. Does anybody guaranty the existence of any of the muslim states?. If middle east had no oil, nobody would even pay any attention to them.

US never accepted 'indians' as part of its system and slughetered them; today the 'indian' population is less than it was when white man came to americas. Is US an 'experiment'? No, it is real entity and the entire world takes note of it.

"Why should Arabs make peace?". This comment is perfectly understandable. White men took over "indian" land and "Indians" never made peace with the US/Canada till they were finally defeated; then "Indians" had no choice. May be Palestinians will have to go through the same phase; probably by that time the palestinians will not exist anymore and the problem will go away.

Get real folks.
2003-10-03

JOHN NORMAN FROM UK said:
If Israel cannot be a "Jewish" state, by what logic can any of the Arab states be "Muslim" states? Is Mr. Bahour calling for the dismantling of Saudi Arabia and other states of the Arab League where Islam is enshrined as the State Religion?

"Palestine" was certainly not an empty land when Jews started their return but neither was it an Arab state. It was a Turkish province and the British and the League of Nations had the right to dispose of it, a right recognised in international law. It should be a sobering thought for Arabs and "Palestinians", an entirely new nationality that arose only in the last eighty years, that had the Turks not lost the war, the "Palestinians" would still be without a state. Did the Kurds receive a state from the UN?
2003-10-03