Salam Ms. MashaAllah,

I'm not African american and I'm not Arab or Pakistani, however, I know from personal experience as well as hearing stories from friends that Pakistanis and Arabs tend to stay amongst their own kind. 

I don't think it's racism, but Pakistani and Arab people want to be with someone with a similar culture

This is going to be a long post so here goes:  Muslims born into a religion are also born into a culture.  They spend their entire lives in this environment that is fostered by their culture and religion.  Put stress on the world culture.  It's plain scary when they are supposed to leave this culture that they are so familiar with when they marry who is from a different culture.

I myself am a convert and I rejected the ideas given to me when I grew up.  I have no culture.  My culture is Islam and I found it hard to understand why a Pakistani, or Arab women would be hesitant to marry me.  However, it dawned on me that if I do marry a woman who is so deeply entrenched in her culture, I'll be pulling her away from something familiar to her.  I won't get their Urdu or Arab jokes, I won't understand so many things about their culture 

People tend to be very conservative.  They don't want to go against the grain and so they continue marrying within their own community.  Some Pakistanis marry their first cousins...which I think is weird.  I have Egyptian friends who insist on marrying Egyptians only...not other Arabs.

I'm not offering an excuse just an explanation. 

I must agree that in some cases racism is the motivation for these rejections.  If someone is stupid enough to be racist, they are not worth being with in the first place. 

That being said, just because one girl rejects him doesn't give him the right to join a religion that most wouldn't call Islam.  That shows a weakness in character. 

Personally, I don't know what is going to happen to me.  I could be alone for the rest of my life theoretically, however, I'm not going to let that fact affect my beliefs.  Allah decides whatever He wants with people.  It's our duty as Muslims to accept Allah's decision and make the best of what we have.  There are millions of Muslims around the world that go hungry every night.  Does that mean they should leave their religion because Allah gave them a bad lot in life?

Those who persevere in hardship and obey Allah will be given a far greater reward in the hereafter anyway. 

I tend to ramble...sorry.

Assalamu alaikum,

I am not arabic or pakistani. To me preference to marry a person that have the same culture is perfectly fine.  Because marriage is not just temporary things, this life time. You have to deal with him/her everyday "forever". So the more similarities the easier to deal with. Even in the same race most successful couples have similar hobbies, characters, education and soon. Because this is one of the important recipe to be success in marriage, this doesn't mean that the is no successful mix marriages. But the percentage say so.

I am a married person, I marry a person that has the same race but different tribe, we have a Little bit different culture and habit. Even then sometime we have difficulties to compromise a certain things.

However, to me the point is culture not race. This means, mix-race marriages will be more common in the 3rd generation of immigrants. Because they have enough distance from their ancestor culture. They go to the same school system, grow in the same environment, have similar hobbies, they both like football (not soccer), baseball (not cricket) and so on.

Assalmau Alaikum

I know I am not a brother; however, I find threads regarding issues of marriage concerning reverts of interest to me since I�m a revert; so, Inshallah, you brothers, especially Brother msmashaAllah, will not mind my posting here. 

I truly believe that Br. Rami's comment is exactly right.  If one leave Islam simply because they don't get what they want when they wanted it, then it is obvious there was something wrong with their deen.  Sura 2, Ayat 177, states that the righteous are patient no matter what happens.  Allah promised we will be tested and it is possible that not finding someone to marry right a way was simply a test for your friend.  Islam is not about submitting our will to Allah only to get what we want, only when we get what we want or only as we prefer to do so.  We submit our will to Allah because that is what He commands of us and we submit our will to Him in the manner He commands us.  That is, submitting to the Will of Allah means that we suppress our own will because we know and accept that Allah knows what is best for us.  This doesn�t imply it will be easy to do so, at least not 100% of the time; however, we do our utmost best to do so 100% of the time.   

There are difficulties in being a revert in North American for a number of reasons with one of the bigger difficulties being the issue of marriage.  It is clear in the Qur�an that Allah didn�t mean for us to live out our lives without a partner.  Allah made us in pairs so that we could be married living a halal life instead of a sinfully life outside of the bonds of marriage.  Married life brings a unique balance between a man and a woman through the fulfilling of their duties.  Allah says that a husband and wife are a comfort for each other; each is a garment for the other.  Marriage also provides spiritual rewards and helps the couple complete fulfill their deen.  That is why the best partner is always the one who is strong in their faith through Islam.

Personally, I believe it is wrong for any person regardless of is race, ethnic group, culture, or even age to refuse marriage based upon those things which the Prophet (pbuh) said were not the important issues in finding a marriage partner.  The Prophet (pbuh) clearly stated that if we chose a partner for other than the quality of their deen, then we will be loser.  How can I claim the Prophet (pbuh) is wrong by stating that some other issue such as culture or race is more important than deen?  I can�t.

So, the issue should be how to find a partner who has a strong deen.  If your friend was refused by some sister because he was African American, or because he is a revert, then they were judging his ability to be a good Islam partner based upon the wrong things.  Also, if he has tattoos from before he reverted, then having them should not be hold against him.  If Allah forgives and purifies a revert through the taking of Shahadah, then NO ONE, has the right to hold his/her past against them.  All of his past sins are whipped away but he keeps all of is good deeds.  I know this might sound a bit strange, but I think your friend was actually blessed because Allah showed him that the deen of these sisters may not be so great if they are refusing marriage based upon race, culture or whether or not he was raised in a Muslim home.  I know for a fact that being raised in a �Muslim� home does not guarantee that a person has a strong deen or that being a revert is any indication that one�s deen may be lacking.  We are commanded to marry, love and care for our parent by doing our duties as commanded by Allah for the sake of Allah.  Not for the sake of having this, that or the other in this material world we live in.  If we marry someone with a good deen, we know that they will fulfill their duties because they love Allah above all things so we know they will be a good partner to and for us because they know not being a good partner would not be pleasing to Allah, and this is not acceptable to them.

The Prophet (pbuh) provided us with such a wonderful example of marriage.  His first marriage to Khadija was such a blessed union full of love, compassion, comfort and support for both of them.  Although Islam was not revealed to the Prophet (pbuh) until after they were married, there marriage was a perfect example of a couple living a life in Islam.  Khadija chose Muhammad (pbuh) because he was a pious man, and he loved her deeply all of his life because she was a true example of one who gives their all for Islam.  She never questioned his status as a spiritual leader, in fact, she was the first revert.  She spend her life taking care of him along with giving to the poor, the children the elderly, the women in need and anyone else who was in need.  She was the epitome of what it means to give Zakat in Islam.  She was not only 15 years his senior, she was twice widowed.  However, their love for each other and their marriage was not based upon anything other than their strong desire to please Allah which requires two people who have strong deens.

All of the Prophet�s (pbuh) other marriages are good examples too; examples which show us that race, culture, age, prior marital status, social status, outer appearance, wealth, and so forth (even fertility) are not what we should focus on when we look for a partner in marriage.  The sad fact is that we live in a world where so much emphasis is placed on culture, traditions, material worth, social status, outward appearances and what we want instead of what Allah has prescribed and knows is best for us.  In fact, it appears that the Ummah may be suffering in part from the consequences of such actions and attitudes regarding marriage.  That is, are Muslims setting themselves up as losers by not following Allah�s command and the example of the Prophet (pbuh) regarding marriage?  If so, how does this affect the Ummah?  I have personally seen many Muslim marriage that are suffering from the same problem that non-Muslim marriages suffer from because they are based upon standards that are not Islamic-ly correct.  Just some food for thought. 

What we should be asking ourselves when we are looking for a marriage parent is �How can I come to know the quality of this person�s deen?�  And we should pursue finding the answer to this question in a way that is Islamic-ly okay to do so.  I�m not trying to say that it is a simply thing to do.  I know that in North American it might be quite difficult in fact.  I, for one, do not have a local Ummah.  I know there are some Muslims who live here because I have seen them in the super market; however, there is no Mosque so it is very difficult meeting them.  I once went up to a sister and said �Assalamu Alaikum� (which by the way I can say very well Alhamdulillah) and I thought she was going to faint from shock.  She muttered a weak �Salam� and turned away from me.  I�m not trying to say something bad about this sister because I truly think she was simply shocked to see a non-Arabic person in our town saying �Assalamu Alaikum� and it is possible that she didn�t speak English. 

Seeing that I don�t spend a lot of time away from home because I don�t just �hang out� and do things that are unnecessary outside of my home since I reverted, it simply seems like an impossible situation for finding a partner.  If I wanted to live in a Muslim community where it might be more likely be to find a husband, I would have to move to an Islamic community where I would be living alone.  That in itself is problematic because I think many Muslims would look down on a sister living alone, especially somewhere that she had no family close by.  Once I went to an Islamic chat room on-line and to say the less, once was more than enough for me.  I wasn�t even able to post a �Salam� before I was bombarded by men from all over the world trying to start private chats with me.  OMA, it was a nightmare; a lesson immediately learned to say the least.  Even Islamic marriage sites seem to be filled with individuals whose reasons for looking for a spouse are less than Islamic-ly correct.  At about the same time I tried the Islamic chat room, I browsed through the IC Marriage site and to be honest, I was rather shocked at what I saw.  I closed that sight knowing that I would never return and that that simply was not an option for me.

I am sure there may be many North American Muslims who have experienced situations similar to mine with the same frustrations that I have experienced.  It is difficult to resign oneself to a life without marriage in a religion that sets a high standard (and rightfully so) regarding coupledom.  So, yes, I can relate to your brother in some respects; however, I would never give up my deen simply because I could not find a husband.  Allah will always come first for me no matter what plan He has for my life.  Living a single life with Allah in it is better than living a married life without Allah.  There simply is no comparison.  Inshallah you friend will come to understand this truth as well.

With respect to your question about choosing between and African American person and a blond haired, blue eyed person (I know you were asking the guys but I will give you my point of view, Inshallah it will be helpful), as I said before, I would want the one with the best deen because I know if a person has a good deen, they will be a good partner; however, if I chose based on the color of someone�s hair or eyes or skin, then I put their deen (if they have one) as something less important, which in essence means that I put the importance of having Allah in my marriage at a level of importance that falls short of the status Allah wants His servants to place it.  I truly don�t want that in my life because to me, serving Allah must come first no matter what else I do or do not have in my life.

Allah Hafiz

Sister Khadija

msmashaAllah wrote: No it is not right that he left islam for the nation because of someone refusing him, but did I say that this was his 8 engagement and need words of encouragement and all he got was rejection and negative things like oh your deen is not strong enough instead of brother things will be okay, would you like me to fast with you, what wrong with muslims!!!!

His 8th engagement ?? is that correct.

If that is the responses he got, I'd say the girls' have got higher expectations, I think they need to lower it a bit.

I'd say the problem does not lay with your brother but the girls.

msmashaAllah wrote: Salaam thank you all for your replies, but I whenever there is a muslim that may not strong in deen, it is not our responsibility to push them away because of their race whether to help them stay in islam. We can all talk about his deen not being strong enough, but what about the  people around him that help make the situation worst. Sometimes the things we say and being inconsiderate can push a person away and the day of judgement we will hear about this. No it is not right that he left islam for the nation because of someone refusing him, but did I say that this was his 8 engagement and need words of encouragement and all he got was rejection and negative things like oh your deen is not strong enough instead of brother things will be okay, would you like me to fast with you, what wrong with muslims!!!!

As salamu alaikum,

Encourage him to come back to Islam, for the sake of his own soul.  It sounds like he only attends mosques with larg arab or pak populations.  Perhaps it would be a good idea for him to start going to a mosques with an African or African-American majority.  That way he'd be surrounded by MUSLIMS that share his same culture and lifestle.    

Allah has given this brother a precious gift, hidaya, don't let him throw it away because of a few ignorant people.  Giving up on Islam because of racism only empowers racism.  Can you imagine where African-Americans would be if they decided to give up on public transportation just because whites didn't want to sit next to them??   If somebody has a problem with the brother because of the color of his skin, it's their problem not his.  It's really no big deal.  

Oh one more thing, he can get the tatoo removed by surgery.

Salaam

wa alaikum as-salam,

what city are you in brother?  there are lots of African-american mosques in L.A.   Let's see......

1.)  Masjid Mu'min over near Western and Washington

2.)  Masjid felix Bilal in on 42nd and Central ave.

3.)  hmm, there's one in Inglewood on Java st.  my mom says it's the best of the four I've given you.  (I don't remember the name of it)

4.)  Masjid Bilal ibn Raba, on Crenshaw blvd. near Slauson

I'm sorry I can't give you exact addresses for these mosques.   I was born in L.A but not raised there.  I didn't attentd these mosque regularly growing up.  But, if you go to these areas on friday and just ask the muslims where the mosques are they'll tell you.   Bro. Israfil may know of some mosques as well.  You could pm him and ask him. 

As for the tatoo, I must have mixed up your thread with another.  there was a brother on the board that had tatoos and had dificulty finding a wife.   Sorry for the confusion.

I agree with you 100%, we shouldn't have to change mosques to feel welcome.  I know I've certainly never had to.  This is the first time I've ever heard of someone leaving Islam over something so trivial as racism (I know of a convert that left because he was gay though, yuki!)    Anyway, just give him the suggestion, in sha allah.  Maybe a change in eviroment for a little while will help him to sort things out.  If he finds that he has the same problems at another mosque, he'll know it's not about the color of his skin.  Right?

salaam

As' Salaamu Alaikum

Unlike most people here I understand the brother's frustration however I do not share his action in leaving Islam. First and foremost for one to convert to any religious organization it must be done with the intention for spiritual fulfillment, not for marital gratification. Althought marriage is part of our religious observation it should not be used as the sole reason for converting to Islam nor should a woman or a man convert to any religious because the other party wants them to, it makes it not sincere if this is done.

Regarding the brothers rejection as I have said before I understand his frustration. I disagree with Megatron that It is perfectly fine to reject someone because of a different culture no that is wrong in my opinion. The criteria of marriage which the prophet has laid down did not mention anything having to do with race, however everything about marriage has something to do with piety. Many immigrants tend to use the excuse that cultural preference is pefectly fine and usually 1st generation parents ionstill such an ideology in their children. Most of their cultural philosophies creats an isolation among other cultures which inevitably can create racism or stereotypical beliefs.

Not saying all cultures do this but if you instill philosophies of this kind in your children for example :Only marry your own kind this eventually will create a gap. This eventually will keep other humans from knowing what other cultures are like and this eventually sends a bad message. A Muslim man be it white or black is a Muslim one who serves God hence when parents teach their children the criterion of marriage they should not include "He or she must be of our culture." I'm sure many people would use the argument that sometimes intermixing cultures will clash because one is different than the other, but one thing about love and marriage is that the two parties involve will make a compromise and understand those differences and see past them.

Unfortunately in our society we have Muslims who are culturally Muslim rather than spiritually Muslim. This brother has the short end of the stick as well as myself. What I would encourage this brother to do is to move on and find another woman. However I encourage this brother to not look for a woman by her race first, rather the search should start with "I want a good, educated woman...."

Unfortunately our Ummah is not exclusive to racism or as many have you said cultural preference. It's sad that the latter is found acceptable especially in our religion. Especially when the prophet said the best are those who are pious and observant to the laws of God. Alas we will always continue to struggle in ignorance because we think this low.

AssalamuAlaikum!

Piety ( devoutness ) is the state that we all must strive to achieve. That is the way inshaAllah, entire ummah would be united.

I pray that Allah guides the brother in question and he comes back on the right track, and doesn't leave Islam under any circumstance, no matter how troubled it becomes.

Moreover, Allah doesn't burden a soul more than it can bear it.

Peace

Assalamu Alaikum

I agree with Brother Israfil.  Why should any Muslim have to go "find his own kind" so to speak?  That we are Muslim is "our own kind" and the only distinction anyone should make between Muslims should be based upon the only distinction which Allah makes in the Holy Qur'an and that is by their piety and good actions.  The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) clearly reminded us of this in his last sermon when he said:

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action.

The Prophet (pbuh) did not preach to, pray with, live amongst or even marry only his �own kind� and his example is the one we are to follow not that of anyone else including our parents especially when are parents are telling us to disobey Allah or His messenger the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).  We are to not follow traditional or cultural justification, but rather, to stand firmly upon justice as prescribed for us by Allah and Allah alone.

4:135 O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well- acquainted with all that ye do.

One of the things many "born" Muslims don�t seem to understand is that the majority of Muslim "reverts" who live in countries where Islam is not the dominate religion lose the support of family, friends and sometimes even the non-Muslim community they live in when they embrace Islam.  This means that the importance of the Ummah they find in their local mosques it VITAL to them.  To tell someone they should go find a mosque of their �own kind� is not only harsh but simply lacks good Islamic adab.

Ashukru-lillahi Rabbil-Alameen wala- hawla  wala quwata illa billah

Allah Hafiz

Sister Khadija

As' Salaamu Alaikum Wa' Rahmatullahi Wa' Brakatuh

My apologies as I haven't posted here as I was caught up in the other sections and discussions. A little update. I haven't pursued anyone as of yet. Because the world is in the state where it is now "brothers like me" who struggle to find their mates will perhaps struggle by God's will. One of the brothers here mentioned that I should try to go to my local masjid to find a wife. Again its like the old saying when I was a Christian "Even the women at church can be devilish too" because one is at the mosque one is automatically holy or pious in the sense.

The sad part about this is that I get more appreciation everyday from non-muslim women that Muslim women. The same ambition is somewhat similare to "reverts in Islam" the ambition to understand seems to be greater within revert muslims than born, at least in general consensus that seems to be. The similarity between that and what I've experienced is evident. I don't try these Muslim sites that post women from different parts of the world because its like gambling in a way. I don't know what kind of woman I'll get.

The sad part about life is that sometimes even good people don't always get what they want. Even Jesus (AS) didn't marry during his mission. Although I'm not on the same spiritual plane as this prophet but what I mean is that not always good people are meant to be with other good people. The way some women of today are is saddening. I live in a society where its important to have money, and status and although not all Muslim women share this mindset, I have found a few in my time that do. I have found some Muslim women to believe that a man should have a well paying job, hence making the transition of their wifely duties easier.

I believe women should work and be independent of men.

Some Muslim women I've spoken with (of course on a cordial basis) have said that a Muslim man must have this and this and that.....

I believe that before somebody speaks of particular qualities they want in a person they should acknowledge the basic qualities a person should have such as a good heart, intelligence and kindness.

My story is a sob story in a way but its true sometimes I don't think I will find that one sometimes I do. But deep down I don't feel that I will marry a Muslimah because of the state of our world today...Not saying I don't want to but because of various reasons.

Bismillah.

Asalaam alaikum

Br. Israfil, I understand that you might not want to hear from anyone about your situation.  From one brother to another though, if I may.

I offer you my humble story. I became involved in various community activities, including halaqas, charity work, organizing seminars  etc before I married. I did it NOT to find a wife- I don't think I even considered married then.  But I did it serve Allah.  In the mean time, I met several excellent brothers of various ethnicities, nationalities, etc.  Through them I met my wife.  Through seeking better of myself and seeking good brothers to work, study, and join with in brotherhood, I found my wife.  I can't say this works for everyone, but its definitely a way to establish bonds which open the doors to good relations. I have been married for 15 years and had 3 children. I encourage you to consider what it is you can do for Allah (SWT) and perhaps He will provide you with a sister you find suitable.

Ultimately, Allah is the Provider. Ar Razzaq. The one who provides us with sustenance. And He offers opportunities. 

Br. Usama Ameen!

I will take ion your suggestion and with that, I pray that Allah will guide me. Ameen!

Assalamu Alaikum:

I find these discussions interesting and I find brother Usama's advise to be wonderful. When you become active within the Islamic Community as a whole, people come to know you and your character and they feel quite safe in introducing you to Sisters who wish to be married.

When I was a single Muslimah, by the way Sister Khadija, I actually got many more invitations when I was living single and I was very well accepted, I was quite active in the community and I found that most Muslims want to marry you off once they get to know you. They will go out of their way to find you a suitable mate. You just have to put yourself out there.

If the Brother had 8 engagements is it possible that he was doing something that led to the Sisters changing their minds? Perhaps it was not his culture or ethnicity but rather his personality? Or if he turned from Islam so quickly, perhaps this was a protection for the Sisters?

We must always remember that our mate is naseeb and sometimes we find them quickly, sometimes it takes awhile. But if someone is meant for you, nothing will keep you apart.

msmashaAllah wrote: Asalaam wa Alekium brothers. As I look around I see that there are many women converting into Islam. Many of these women are African American. I want to know why is it so hard for converts to get married and why is it extremely hard for brothers to marry convert African American women.----

I tried to find contact with African women in the past through an African work mate, yet he struggles himself to find one. He is not muslim so the conditions are less than me, but now 1 1/2 year later he still looking.

I went to the dating site for few months. I chat a woman within weeks from singapore. Two weeks later I flew to singapore to meet her, she was a beautiful woman. Unfortunately there was something she did not mentioned in the profile which made us could not continue. I like her honestly, she is a beautiful.

Than I tried again making contact with malays, difficult. With arabs (easy I have no problem with them), with three indonesians, difficult (with broken communication, although one that regretted when I withdraw my approach). With african american, too far away they are all in america.

I think the people who are looking for partner in the internet most of them have personality problem and communication problem. But this is the best way at the moment to have a chat.

One advice if you like to join, please be honest and be communicative even when a person outside your criteria make contact. Be always polite.