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ak_m_f View Drop Down
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Points: 3272 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2007 at 4:17pm
This proves that all the Lal Masjid mob were suicidal maniacs. The madrassas are creating zombies who care nothing for any one else and want to die for what they are brainwashed into believing is Islam.

I have heard the interviews also. It is strange that not a single student thought that he/she had done anything wrong including killing of the security personnel.

With schools like these, we dont need India to destroy us. Idiotic Pakistanis will destroy the State from within, believing that they are doing Allah's work.

When will our nation wake up and realize that these people are not pious muslims but a 'Fitna' and a menace to the society as well as to the State. In fact they are the greatest enemy of Pakistan. Their aim is to make the entire muslim world into an imaginary utopian state living in the 7th/8th century world.

Pakistanis does not deserve Pakistan. State will not survive; if these people win,Then it would be a collection of petty Mullah Warlords controlling small areas of a lawless land such as in Somalia or in Afghanistan. May be that is what Nawaz Sharif would prefer than see Musharraf remain power.

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Points: 3272 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2007 at 4:16pm
'I hoped to be a glorious martyr'


I was not in contact with my family. The last time I contacted them, I told them that the army would not start an operation.

They asked me to come back home, but I said that I would never come back as I wished to be martyred. My brother said that he would force me to return, but I told him that he could be beaten up if he came near the seminary...


"It was better to die than be buried under the debris"

A girl who came with us was taken home forcibly. She was crying and told the teacher that she didn't want to go back. The teacher asked her to go back with her parents.

We felt sorry for her as we came here with the passion of jihad [holy war] and to preach Islam, and now because there was a problem the girls had gone back. We did not appreciate the parents behaviour.

The teacher said that no one was being stopped from going home, and she asked parents to go and find their children to take them home. Very few girls left because they were afraid - those who left were either minors or they were forced to leave by their parents...

We were shocked that they cut off the electricity and also cut off the water and gas supply. What could we do? We were only praying to God to show them the right path.

Not enough explosives


They were throwing lots tear gas shells. We were continually cleaning our eyes with water. Glass windows were breaking, doors were breaking. We couldn't sleep, sometimes one would sleep for an hour, or half an hour, the others would stay awake. That way we managed...


We wanted to carry out suicide attacks. We didn't have enough ammunition to fight face to face. We had a small number of arms with which our mujahideen brothers were fighting.

We asked the teacher to provide us with arms necessary for suicide attacks. She said that we didn't have sufficient explosives. Yes, we had a passion and we were willing to go to all lengths...

After the evening prayer we found out that Maulana Aziz - the chief cleric - had been arrested while he was trying to flee wearing a burka. We were told that he'd been called to speak to the prime minister.

When we asked our teacher why Maulana Aziz had left in a burka she said that the prime minister advised him to do so. She said that he had been told to come out in disguise so that he wouldn't be killed...

We thought that they only wanted to arrest Maulana Aziz, but at night when the firing started we realised that they had other intentions...

On Thursday night [5 July], they attacked the kitchen and we were forced to survive on leaves and honey. They set fire to our room so we shifted to the next room. Police sprinkled petrol everywhere outside.

When we woke up on Saturday [7 July] our teacher told us that they had found lots of honey from the Red Mosque area. We made juice out of it and our brother brought leaves for us. All of us were without food from the day before so we ate leaves and honey juice...

Korans burning

We had been told by our teacher that they had put explosives in the building and that we shouldn't die in this manner, but that we should come outside to face the bullets or even surrender. It was better to come out rather than die under the debris...


The mosque's school suffered the most battle damage

We came outside with our hands raised and saw that the doors were closed and they were on the roof. There was no way to leave. We told them that we had surrendered and they should not shoot at us. A policeman showed us the way out and finally, we were taken outside...

They took us to another room and gave us food. We were crying a lot because Korans were burning inside the Red Mosque which was on fire.

We pleaded with them to let us take the Koran. We were very sad to see them being burnt in front of our own eyes. At sunset we were told that we were going to be sent home, and at night, we left the area...

After meeting my father, I was overcome by grief as I had hoped to be a martyr and come back alive.

Now they've attacked the Red Mosque and Jamia Hafsa [the seminary attached to it], I hope the whole country will have Red Mosques. I will work for jihad, and open a madrassa and train people for jihad.
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Points: 3272 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2007 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by Sign*Reader Sign*Reader wrote:


Another perspective on the RED MOSQUE FIASCO!AK_m_f you better come up with the evidence to prove your allegations or the apologies will do!


Sign*reader I don't have time to reply the insults you have posted; but here is the bitter truth.

I think you should learn to tolerate differences of opinion, intolerance gives the rise of such maniacs.

Do you know who Imam of Kaba is? the grand mufti?

He told Gazi to give up and save the lives of his fellow students, but looks like he had something else in mind.

Quote
RIYADH: Saudi Arabia's Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdulaziz Al-Shaikh has urged the Muslim youth to be aware of those elements that are launching fake jihad.

In an interview to Saudi daily, the Grand Mufti said that there are large number of elements, which are giving lessons of fake jihad to the youth and misguiding common man. They are launching a drive to detract Muslims from the path of faith.

Shaikh Abdul Aziz said that Jihad in present time is to shun evils and follow the teachings of Islam.

He added that there are two schools of thoughts in this connection. The one is on an erroneous path and the other one is the group, which consider itself on the correct path and declare non-Muslims all those persons who belonged to another school of thought.

Saudi Grand Mufti advised young men not to follow such teachings and consult with authentic religious scholars to get rid of such malicious thoughts.


http://www.geo.tv/geonews/details.asp?id=9057¶m=2








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Points: 3352 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2007 at 10:41pm
Another perspective on the RED MOSQUE FIASCO!
AK_m_f you better come up with the evidence to prove your allegations or the apologies will do!
Lal Masjid: What really happened???
By: ABID ULLAH JAN
Published: July 15, 2007

 

The so-called Lal Masjid operation is officially over but it leaves the military regime and Pakistan in a major security, political, moral and religious crisis. Based on the available information, we can clearly see as to what really happened. Following are the bare minimum facts that can be accommodated in a short article. It is not difficult to dig the associated facts and prepare a legal case against the culprits of this bloody adventure.

 

The pro-regime analysts claim that all the damning information that exposes the regime is fantastic and damning allegations, facts mixed with fantasy to create dramatic PR affects. They want to make the public believe that the following are mere perceptions and have nothing to do with the reality:

 

 

  • That there are over 1000 casualties of students, mostly women and children and the government have removed the bodies for secret burials.  
  • There were no weapons in the complex and the governments have planted them after the operation.  
  • There were no terrorists or foreign fighters inside the complex and the government is only using this excuse to build its cases.  
  • The operation has been carried out on the orders of US by General Musharraf to please West to seek a re-election for next five years.

 

As far the number of casualties are concerned, it is not just the clerics who are kicking dust that 1000 casualties have taken place within students of the seminary, there are editorial [1] and analysis [2] by credible and neutral journalists who have come to the conclusion after putting all available statistics side by side that at least 902 and at the most 1956 people have been killed.[3]

 

Among the victims were orphans [4], people from as far as Azad Kashmir [5] and other remote areas. These include families with little of no resources to afford to come to Islamabad, get together in one place and campaign for their dead ones in these circumstances.

 

Relative of the victims, who are already in Islamabad [6] are running from pillar to post to no avail. Camps have already been established for the victims from Kashmir to assess the actual number of missing people. Amid the reports of mass burial people have already lost hope to find their loved ones.

 

Not allowing the media at the time of operation makes some sense. However, not allowing them to enter the mosque immediately after the operation and a ban on media personnel to visit hospital [7] and cold storage for dead bodies simply shows that there was too much for the regime to hide and plant.

 

It would be ridiculous on the part of relatives of the victims to insist looking in the mass graves for their loved ones, which the regime should have handed over to the relative in the first place.

 

An announcement to come and recognize your loved ones in the dead bodies at cold storage would have brought many to the front to show the estimate of missing people. May be that�s why the government was in a hurry and started digging and burying during the night. The laborers working on the graves have told BBC two and more bodies in one coffin. [8] And logically, more than 100 mass graves for 102 victims (as per the military regimes claim) just do not make any sense.

Dawn editorial on July 11 states:

�EIGHTY per cent of the operation,� to quote an army spokesman, had been completed to expel the terrorists from the Lal Masjid when these lines were written, and Abdul Rashid Ghazi had been killed, though resistance from hard-core militants was still going on, with the death toll in the vicinity of 150. �

Note the figures of 150 dead by the time when 80 % operation was completed. And come back to the government�s figure of just 50 after 100% operation that was regurgitated by all the national and international media for a long time after completion of the bloody drama.

 

For the sake of discussion, even if we take the official figures of casualty as true, aren�t more than 100, including women and children, a significant number?

 

Couldn�t these lives be saved?

 

Of course, they could have been saved[9] provided General Musharraf the had not ordered operation before the end of negotiations[10] as we can see from numerous reports[11] and personal testimony of those who were involved in the negotiations.

 

Mufti Usmani who was part of the delegation affirms that the two sides had reached an agreement. They wrote it down. In fact, the government Minister of Information inked it and took it share with General Musharraf, who rejected it and when Chaudhry Shujaat returned things were back to the square one.[12] Moreover, at the same time, the military personnel on the ground started harassing them to leave [22] as it was already too late for them to begin the operation.

 

This has been proved conclusively that the bloodbath at the mosque could have been avoided but Musharraf had other nefarious designs and malicious objectives to achieve. The daily Ummat, July 11 report [13] and interview with the two individuals, who were part of the final delegation, is part of the evidence against General Musharraf. Ghazi�s last communication to the media [14] is far more credible than all the government reports.

 

The deceased Ghazi could be evil, so to say, but at the very least he would not lie to three TV channels just moments before his death.[15] He said it repeatedly that he wanted the government to allow media to come in to see for itself if what the regime was claiming had any connection with the reality.

 

If the government were true in its claims to foreign fighters and a cache of weapons in the mosque, it should have let the media in. What was it afraid of? It is not a blunder on the part of government. It was part of the strategic planning. With media�s access, the regime�s case would have fallen apart and it�s lies about foreign fighters and weapons would have been exposed leaving it with no justification to launch the bloody assault and score points with its foreign masters. The negotiating ulema have  also refuted the regime's claim that Ghazi had asked for safe passage for foreigners.

 

According to a Pak-Tribune story:

 

They further said that Maulana Muhammad Saleem Ullah Khan including his colleagues Maulana Muhammad Rafi Usmani, Maulana Abdul Razzaq Skinder, Maulana Qari Muhammad Hanif Jalandhari, Maulana Zahid-ur-Rashadi and others arrived in Islamabad on 9th July to settle this issue and called on Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, PML-Q chief Chaudhary Shujaat Hussain and other ministers and formulated the unanimously joint strategy on which Maulana Abdur Rashid Ghazi showed his consent.

They said that at final stage, Ch. Shujaat Hussain insisted to send the agreement to Awan-e-Saddar for final approval, and when this agreement returned, it was altered. When informed about this new formula, Maulana Ghazi refused to accept it. [16]

This PROVES that Musharraf simply didn't want a peaceful resolution. [17] The week long stand off was only part of the drama to show that his junta is showing restrain and negotiating. That was absolutely not the case despite the public statement of the Ghazi Aziz[18] with the expression of hope on July 5 after the deceptive arrest of Maolana Aziz [19] and Ghazi�s discussions with Chaudhry Shujaat that the crisis will be resolved in a few hours time.

This also PROVES that all the people involved in this agreement were not fool, or blind, or terrorist and extremists, or RAW agents. However, Mush tried to show that he was above their collective wisdom and what he thought was right and above their agreement.

By amending the joint agreement, Mush simply told all concerned that the final word belongs to him, else all are dead. That is what he did. This is what all tyrant dictators do.

The pro-regime media has a different story to tell. Dawn July 11 editorial says, �Abdul Rashid Ghazi refused to show any flexibility. Even Maulana Fazlur Rahman accused Ghazi of intransigence. Those who went to negotiate with him included Maulana Abdul Sattar and Bilqees Edhi and some of the country�s respected ulema, but Ghazi remained obdurate. He and his militants fired on parents who had gone to the mosque to meet their children.�

Who the editors of Dawn are trying to fool? Did we not personally hear Ghazi on Geo 24 hours before the operation, when he was so confident after talking to Chudhry Shujaat that he predicted everything to be settled within  a couple of hours. He said it repeatedly that he had agreed to all the conditions.

Did we not read [20] the reports about Ghazi�s offer to surrender? And what about Asia Times July 10 report mentioning these facts:

'Yes, the talks were successful. The draft was written. Abdul Rasheed Ghazi was to be allowed a safe passage, but then the draft was sent to the president and he amended it. Things were back to Square 1 and the talks failed,' a dejected Grand Mufti Usmani told Asia Times Online by telephone. He rarely leaves his seminary in Karachi, but was specially invited to Islamabad by the government for the talks.

Asia Times Online contacts claim that the situation was complicated by the sudden appearance of a delegation of members of Parliament belonging to the government's coalition partners, the Muttahida Quami Movement. They are believed to have met with a US official at his official residence, after which the situation changed within an hour.

There is no reason for us to believe the one-sided, pro-government, biased reports, which is no less than an attempt to fool the nation and the world.

According to Ishtiaq Ali Mehkri [21], news editor at Geo TV, the Lal Masjid standoff was a "masterpiece of intelligence agencies" and an "eyewash" to deflect attention from issues of national importance, especially the Supreme Court hearing of the petition of Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry, whom Musharraf summarily suspended as chief justice.

Mekhri's views were endorsed by Hamid Mir, senior political analyst at the same TV channel. "Musharraf wanted to diffuse the multi-parties conference in London [a meeting of dozens of Pakistani politicians]. Before that he was using Lal Mosque to distract [from] the judicial crisis."

According to Mir, Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain, head of the ruling Pakistan Muslim League, who was sent to negotiate with the mosque administration, and who was about to resolve the issue in April, was "asked by someone very important to delay it".

There is so much behind the fa�ade of fighting extremism. To save the nation, to save the armed forces and Pakistan, we need to be persistent and press for answers to all the questions which are still left unanswered. At the same time, based on the available, undeniable facts and witnesses, we need to make the regime accountable and make the culprits pay the price because not only the blood of innocent civilians lie on their hands but it has give a perfect justification to the Islamophobes to prepare a case for an all out war on Pakistan.

Related links:

 

[1] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=623

 

[2] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=475

 

[3] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=622

 

[4] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=644

 

[5] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=649

 

[6] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=591

 

[7] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=564

 

[8] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=607

 

[9] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=610

 

[10] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=579

 

[11] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=577

 

[12] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=575

 

[13] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=575

 

[14] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=569

 

[15] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/index.php?module=News&c atid=&topic=24

 

[16] http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?183658

 

[17] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=466

 

[18] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=429

 

[19] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=479

 

[20] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=523

 

[21] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=566

 

[22] http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload& name=News&file=article&sid=641

 




Edited by Sign*Reader
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Points: 3352 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2007 at 9:59pm

AK_m_f in PINK

I know about these incident first hand since I am in Pakistan right now.
No, you don't; as a matter of fact this claptrap of yours is nothing but Mush's BS regurgitated.
Even the Israelis would be less brazen killers of Palestinians than Mush's henchmen have done to the Muslims. He is fully responsible and this Shah of Iran attitude against the students in 60s that didn't work for Shah and won't work for this made by US Shah of Paleetistan!

The Red Mosque has history behind it, it didn't pop up like that in the vicinity of Mush palace.

All the Military dictators since 1965 have known very well!

Don't pose as investigative journalist by just plopping down from Canada!
 Even the real journalist were hard pressed to get the real facts while this was going on!
They were told to stay out with the threat of being shot by their army!
 
This is lot more blatant but immature attempt to twist facts than what you accuse brother Showkat about.

I don't buy any of your assertions as I know where you are coming from!

How did MQM killers get away with Karachi massacre?
Mush refused the probe about it!
Any wonder the Pakis are in such awful shape!
The country has been under the military thugs for half  a century!

Sister Herjihad may not be in a position to decipher  your balderdash so here it is my response!

First of all congratulation to you and  Mush for the first ever victory of the Paki army in 60 years that has been consistently defeated in every conflict for conquering a MOSQUE in Islamabad

What an achievement  since the ignominious surrender to the Indian army on eastern front when 90000 laid down their arms instead of fighting like men!

This army only fit for the conquering their own hapless masses through ousting the elected Premiers by scaling the walls of their residences with guns drawn! What a shame!

First of all Lal masjid was creating state within state; They were trying to impose their own "taliban-Islam" on majority by the barrel of Gun.
You need to learn how present the case, Lal Masjid is a building, how a building can do all that? No wonder Mush's attorneys lost the Chief Justice's firing case in supreme court, they didn't know what had they written down in the briefs they submitted to the court! They had no remorse for their screwup!

It all started when Gov issued the notice of demolition; because the mosque was built on stolen land public property.
This is another blatant lie, the mosque had been there before you were born.
How come the government found out in the middle of Mush's CJ wrongful firing and  judicial crises and not earlier?

 How did the Mosque get all the utilities, the government doesn't hook up water, power, sewer and trash hauling without the title.

BTW unless you are a non Muslim, did you know about the Mosque which was built over night in Lahore on a disputed (with Hindus) spot in days of colonial India and even the British couldn't do anything about it? And making this nonsensical statement  when the country is supposed to be Islamic Republic and the place being Islamabad.
Actually trouble started when the Mush had seven mosques demolished in Islamabad and the boys and girls took a over library as replacement and that to be vacated once the mosques were replaced

Lal masjid went to shops and threatened Video stores;
Then they kidnapped police men that were around mosque and disarmed them.
They were later released.
Again a moronic statement, you need to go back to school and learn how to write!
Read it again! Was the mosque like a transformer flick!
Come on make some sense You are such a knucklehead!
 
Your writing style betrays you to be a MQM partisan;  burning with hate of real Islam and consequently so anti mosque.
With that kind of mentality why do you hang around IC?
BTW by now you would know MQM has been declared a terrorist org by Canadian G'ovt! Is it true? Are you a bona fide MQM member?
On the complain of neighbors they captured "Aunty Shamim" accusing her of running brothel from the house.
According to her, she was tortured into accepting these accusations.
Gov took no action.
In USA we call it a citizen arrest; if there were enough witnesses, she should have been prosecuted and put in jail! 
Whose aunt she was ? Any  body you know

As we say $64000 question!

Q)What is the "wrong" here need to be corrected?

A)An unimpeded spread of booze and sex trade under Mush's enlightened moderation!
Why did  the neighbors not go to the government authorities to get this taken care off? It is known fact without the police protection the prostitution can't survive or thrive!
Didn't Aunty she say that she had access to the government honchos? Why did she?
Could it be possible that she was purveyor for the Mush's and his cronies?
It is no secret of his boozing and womanizing!
Paki Bill Clinton!

After month or so they raided acupuncture clinic and kidnapped Chinese workers by labeling it all as "covert brothel"
The foreign ministry of China filed complain; Gov was forced to take action.
The mosque was fully equipped with Guns,bullets, mines, bombs & had vast tunnel system.

I learned it was  instigated by Ejajulhaq the minister of religious affairs!
This needs investigation under Supreme Court jurisdiction, the Government is at fault to keep everybody in dark.
Mush kept the drama going as long the Chief Justice's hearing dragged along and APC meeting in London was happening to obfuscate all that from the common man's view.
The local press has written extensively all about that theatrics!
If the Chief Justice is not safe from this thuggish dictator's junta who else could be?
The lawlessness situation in Pakistan requires  a gunman a the gate to keep the thugs and robbers out.
You are telling Ghazi man not to have arms, that is funny!
Remember your the Hindis leader Altaf Hussain told his followers in Karachi to sell their TVs and buy ak47s and rest of the story I am not telling here!
Somehow ak sounds familiar!

The father of Ghazi brothers was assassinated in the same  mosque.
 There is recorded interview on this subject on GEO .TV website, the arms were licensed!
Why was the media not let in rather threatened?
This fine example of a BANANA REPUBLIC presenting a drama they named "OPERATION SILENCE" kept  people in dark in this day and digital age?
Where US couldn't win by controlling media you think a TIN POT DICTATOR will win a war against his own  people for some green backs!

The two mullah brothers were not coming out and declared "jihad" on Pakistan.
You are making no sense! If you say Paleetistan then it may, you know what I mean? They have been doing that since Dictator Ziaulhaq times. It is the gov't failt for using them for its ends.

They took children hostage & shot the parents in the legs who went to take their children back home.
Plain BS, provide your evidence!
Lot of orphans of the Kashmir earth quack had been accommodated there who got massacred. The children who wanted to leave were let go!
It was Pakistan vs lal masjid.
Again your statement is bullheaded and meaningless
The Hindus destroyed the Babri Mosque but they also massacred thousands of other Muslims in India who took stand about that mosque destruction cuz the Muslims were defenseless so now it is happening in Pakistan or rather Paleetistan!
 You are too young to know this kind of crap took place in Iran in the days of Shah, he killed thousands in Khomainis school then what happened to Shah, that is what is Mush's fate mark my words. What goes around comes around.

The gov cut off food, water & power to the mosque. To flush them out.

They made holes in the walls of people was flee, many students saved their lives this way.

They even caught one of the brothers running away in burka (women's veil).

While they ignited students to fight their jihad one of them was running way for his live.
It was trick by the someone higher up in Mush's team to negotiate face to face instead they took him to the TV station what did that accomplish? that meant government wanted a down and dirty game so be it they got it that way and the masters are still not happy, they will not let up till whole country is done in! What the heck Mush care he is not a natural Paki. he is Hindi!

In the end Gov was forced to storm mosque and rescue children, with min casualties

Minimum casualties! who are you kidding I saw all this on the TV and tracked all the news  by online media, you can sell the BS to others but not yours truly. There is no Government, it is Mush pleasing our decider in the white house!

If Mush cared for the children why didn't the government housed, fed and educated  these poor kids which civilized people do as you have enjoyed in the Canadian welfare system? Why are these kids in these places? You are too young to know any better!
 And all got massacred as  the Mush  stated surrender or get killed or rather scalped for almighty dollars and that was done to please the masta at 1600  Pennsylvania Ave.
Finally who will be called the Martyred ones? Here is crux of whole matter!
Now don't be asking the label of martyrdom for the secularist army who got killed attacking the defenders of the mosque and their home after your tirade against the Lal Masjid!
The mercenaries should go to hell in this case !
Also it is being reported that phosphorus had been used just like US did in Fulojah and it is a war crime Continue on this track the country has no future ,will be history in not too distant future!! Continued>>>


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Points: 446 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2007 at 11:05am

I don�t know enough about poetry or the incident at the Lal Masjid to comment on that.

 

However, I�d like to comment on the following statement:

 

�According to the Imam Abu hanifah, it is forbidden to rise against a government which is established.�

 

If it is forbidden to rise against an established government then what kind of government can people rise against; one that is not established and does not exist? That is like saying every government anywhere and at all times must be supported, even if it is unjust and evil.
Respectfully
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Points: 1642 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2007 at 11:11am

 

 Most of the Muslims in pakistan and India are Hanafi muslims. But their Hanafi Deobandi teachers do not teach them the proper things. According to the Imam Abu hanifah, it is forbidden to rise against a government which is established. That is an important principle if any one wants to follow.

Now these people who were running religious schools, did they not know about that ruling of a good guide, The Imam of Fiqah, Abu hanifah. Jihaad has also a few meanings. And it has conditions. They must be fulfilled. The two Ghazi brothers took on themselves to operate Jihad against a government, so the consequences are there. That is like doing a very honest duty, good work in the way of Allah but getting punished for that. Peace is the process not harshness.

The prophet lived in Makkah. But he did not do any Jihaad of the kind that these two Ghazi brothers tried to do. I do not want to defame or blame them. The consequences of this Lal masjid, the after math will also be bad. Because they (maulvis) have woved to carry our more attacks. All Muslims beware. They have no right to do that.

These Deobandis were running many schools. They were producing the Talibaan who fought well and gained a good government in Afghanistan. But what was the end result of that politics without spiritual guidance. These Afghans were no where as good as Hitler and his might. No good as the japanese. So why did they take on the world?? Because they can make a pistol on home made lathes so they think that they are capable of fighting. No. Fighting is not required at all.

Even now, it is better to learn a lesson. The debacle of Lal Masjid could have been avoided then it would have been much better. But it is all politics and who wants to lose a political battle?? Does Yazeed want to lose the battle?? But Hissain had to pay some price.

I liked the feeling of one good friend who saw a Afghan child (bachcha) picking food from a rubbish bin. He told me that these Afghans were the most beautiful people and very clean and honest practicing Muslims. But look how they been misled and ruined that their children are collecting the rubbish in the cities. Very true. I was very sad to learn that.
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Points: 3984 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2007 at 9:11am

Interesting brother.

Did you happen to take part of this mission? If so, I salute you for your bravery.
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