This is why Palestine will not succeed

(since the Farfur show is what started this thread "This is why Palestine
will not succeed" , I'll stay on that topic)

Peace Bros and Sisters,

Update: Someone somewhere doesn't condone unnecessary violence
anywhere.     And you get a free bag of chips with every other gamy,
flabby and toothless post;.

However, regarding the title of this particular post, (or would you rather
not, Israfil?) let's let someone else check in on the subject

Poster from original response to Farfur video from the Guardian UK:

Actually this video was thoroughly investigated on the "War is Peace"
thread, as GrandOldMan says - and your article brings some extra light
on the issue so thanks for that.
Tijani actually did an analysis of the video (as posted on gyus.org) and
realized that not only were some of the translations skewed, but that the
way the video had been spliced deliberately made the commentaries
sound worse than they were. Here is Tijani's post :
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/nimer_sultany/2007/05/wa r_is_pe
ace.html
Tijani
Comment No. 572780
May 9 19:19
"Overnight, I have had the chance to have a look at the GIYUS originated
"Hamas Mickey Mouse" video clip (as promoted by Apparition and others
on this and other threads).
I was first concerned by the translation from Arabic into English offered
in subtitles in the video clip. In the main, the translation is faily accurate.
The only glaring distortion occurs towards the very end of the 3:27 clip
where the twelve-year-old, Muhammad, calling into the children's
programme on Al-Aqsa TV sings "This is *a* time *of* death"; and not,
as the subtitles have it, "This is *the* time *for* death." The difference in
sense is telling in both Arabic and English.
So, what is wrong with the clip? Well, it is a very crude post-production
cut and paste job, a video-montage constructed out of clips taken from
clips from three episodes of a children's show on Palestinian TV. Whole
sections are edited together with other segments to give the blackest
possible picture. It works like this:
Take a video of a Tony Blair speech. Now cut and paste words, phrases,
sentences together in an order of your choosing. Voila! Tony Blair can be
shown in a single session to have admitted anything. The edits are very
crude in the Al-Aqsa video and are clearly designed to paint the whole
show in as bad a light as possible.
This is exactly what has been done to the video content from al-Aqsa TV.
It is especially obvious at around 0:26 mins when the first segment is
rudely interrupted with a segment from the same show, but clearly
originally not sequential with the first.
Now, one might - and I do - object to the politicisation of very young
children. Even uncut it is clear that this was the ambition of the original
show. I find that very disturbing of itself.However, it is also clear that the
content is hardly as controversial as some would want.
Nowhere are violence, hate or terrorism extolled in any especially overt
or clear-cut way. The claims otherwise are clearly unsubstantiated -
even the subtitled translation cannot be shown to show that such occur
in the video as presented to YouTube by GIYUS. One might not like
Palestinians pointing out that they don't like being occupied by Israel;
one might contest their right to claim East Jerusalem as their capital -
one even might not like their support for the Iraqi people's resistance to
occupation... but such are not calls for suicide bombers, terror or even
jihad. They are statements made by others, every day, on exactly these
issues.
Interestingly, GIYUS are urging its followers to publicise this crude and
rather unsubstantial piece of black propaganda via whatever media they
can find. Presumably the recent spate of references to this video-
montage here on CiF is part of this campaign.
In all, rather a to-do about nothing in particular. If this is the best the
GIYUS mob can muster, really anti-Zionism has little to concern itself
about on that particular Zionist front."


p.s Bro Israfil, I don't know if they have a spell-checker at the prison
computer, but for someone who habitually complains to foreign posters
about their English:   as one of those of us who speak more than one
language AND English, you are an national embarrassment. And I
wouldn't have said that if I didn't know how 'tough' you were and how
thick-skinned we all need to be to deal with your 'opinions'. If you can
invest in a grammar corrector as well, I'll sport for it.   Then if there is
some sense-making software, I'll pay for that, too - if only to avoid the
sea-sickness of someone who can't speak clearly.

p.p.s God knows, but maybe you really are for peace. God bless you.   
There is an Arabic expression, "There is no peace between the wood and
the fire."

Maybe I should get into the habit of spell check, but the problem I have is I type too fast and have long fingers. So I'll keep that in mind, but my English is way better than 99% of the people whose first language is not English and even some of those whose English is their first language. Duende I don't know whether to take the P.S. as a direct insult or some sarcastic remark but whether or not it is sincere is not the point. What this whole subject boils down to is a difference of opinions.

I hold a particular view and everyone else holds a particular view. I think majority of those here are incoherent, but, that is my opinion just like majority of the people may perceive me as one way (or many). They are all views and we all have the right to have them. At the end of the day we are who we are and in some cases people cannot change. So far I have not seen any refutations thus far concerning my view on Hamas. I have one view say Hamas is the people but that does not explain anything. This let's me know people do not know how to make distinctions between minority and majority groups in politics.

Just because you have one group representing the majority does not equate to ALL. So, let me restate again for those of you that don't understand. When I in the past criticized Hamas I didn't criticize ALL Palestinians. It is false to equate one group with every single individual especially when every individual is not physically polled in their opinion of Hamas. Since there are several political groups in contrast to Hamas it lets me know that within the majority there are people with difference of opinions. Perhaps those differences stem from ideals to whatever all what is important here are those differences. So in this respect we need to discern from the minority and the majority.

It's like me talking about republicans. If I criticize the republican party it does not mean I'm attacking all whites (since most whites statistically are republican). I seriously feel like a parrot because in my previous post I stated this ( no matter how imperfectly it was even in my misspellings I was quite coherent more so than most) but I feel as if people still don't understand.

Tell me what does your question mean:

God knows, but maybe you really are for peace?

I don't understand how this has any relevance to my earlier opinion just like I don't understand how me not supporting one political group is relevant to my religious affiliation.

Tara you said:

Israfil in a recent post on 5 or 6 said "I am not a Muslim" Israfil why would you make a claim this or are people under the impression you are. Did you claim to be a Muslim on the IC?.

This is totally false and it let's me know that you read what you want to read instead of reading for comprehension. I did not say I was not Muslim I was merely regurgitating the comments about my faith simply because I share a different opinion. Yes I have an unorthodox way about myself and I'll admit that but I never said I was not Muslim. I think thus far I've established a pretty brutally honest opinion about myself and my views on the world. I may sarcastically consider myself non-Muslim but only for pure sarcasm not sincerity.

 

 Israfil wrote " I'm not even muslim so save the incognito speech about me being new to Islam" What the hell are you talking about? I could care less..I am not going to bang my head teaching Islam to you. First off, I don't claim to be a scholar, but as far as I know about Islam I believe it is sick and twisted to humiliate your Creator by sarcasticly considiering yourself a non muslim for pure sarcasm. that is hugely offensive and if you are a muslim than you lied in your previous post, and that to me is a kifar of the worst kind. Sorry Israfil, this religion is based on pillars one of which is total belief Allah SAW, and all his messengers and angels..not for "pure sarcasm not sincerity."  Like I said before here is your so called incognito speech about being new to Islam. "I have my beliefs and you have yours" Our prophet Peace Be Unto Him..suggestion on how to deal with the kifar who ask about Islam only to make mockery of your religion.

Bye Bye

 Tara

Edited by Tara

Duende you said: I apologize I miswrote that it was not you it was Jamal

Tara the video was more like a precursor to the opinion I have of Hamas, whether the video was skewed is a matter of debate. The fact of the matter is prior to the video, they are a dangerous political movement. Now very recently I knw they are willing to talk to Tony Blair (anyone) "as long as they are not the occupier" (See Ref: http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/103189.html)

We will see how that pans out.

As for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiyya or (Islamic Resistance Movement- which is arguably an acronym for Hamas) the main issue aside from the video posted I had with the was that in 1988 in their charter their main goal is the destruction of Israel however after reading their charter there were certain things I disagree with as a matter of opinion for instance the following:

Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences
[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: �Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.� From time to time a clamoring is voiced, to hold an International Conference in search for a solution to the problem. Some accept the idea, others reject it, for one reason or another, demanding the implementation of this or that condition, as a prerequisite for agreeing to convene the Conference or for participating in it. But the Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? �And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.� Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: �The people of Syria are Allah�s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.� (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.) See Reference: http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

Also in the platform of their movement their creed states:

Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors See Ref:http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.ht ml

Now I recognize that they have last year as an elected group had taken the blanket statement out but of course in replacement of that had taken a softer approach (which may in subtle fashion still reflect their main goal) in their manifesto : The manifesto makes no mention of the destruction of the Jewish state and instead takes a more ambiguous position by saying that Hamas had decided to compete in the elections because it would contribute to "the establishment of an independent state whose capital is Jerusalem". See Ref: http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1684472,00.htm l

Now examining the charter for the Islamic Resistance Movement their original purpose is excessive. It goes from taking one's homeland to the annihilation of a group. Now if their original position was "we wish to take the land back from the occupiers" that is more reasonable approach to me since, they have a legitimate right to take their lang back but what becomes a problem is when they ask for the destruction of a whole people.

Tara

Take my statements how you want to because I don't want to keep explaining myself over and over and over. It's obvious you don't get it. When I say things like "I am not Muslim anyway" I'm pretty much mocking the individuals on this forum who, by the way, have never met in me in "real life" outside the web  who have called me a non-muslim before. I'm merely mocking the st**idity generated by premature judgements. Muslims here use sarcasm all the time against the Christians here. They mock the Christian beliefs but not so much Jewish (because most Muslims don't know Jewish law because its quite extensive and can hardly be criticized unlike Christianity).

From the emoticon you have used its obvious you do care! lol and by the way, to say "I care less" means to care a little bit which obvious you do care to some extent. Look Tara don't blow a gasket just accept me for how I present myself here like everyone else does. as for the opinion concerning the Mickey Mouse, he is matyred and dead and really there is no point in discussing the issue further. Allow this discussion to die like all others.

 

 

Edited by Israfil