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Question about rape

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umsami View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 May 2005
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote umsami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2005 at 7:49am

Assalamu Alaikum:

Unreported rape is a BIG problem in the Muslim world because of the points you bring up.  Also, sadly, many people believe that the girl/woman somehow asked for it... which is where we were as a society not too long ago. (I remember a movie with Jodie Foster in it where they tried to say that how she dressed caused her to be raped. Many Muslims I know of would agree with that! :P)

I think we need to set up more counseling centers/health clinics for women who have been raped (or victims of domestic violence.)  They need counseling.  They need to be tested for STDs, pregnancy, etc.  Even if they can't report it, these things need to happen.  In a culture of fear (for the victim), they won't even get these basics.  Also, in such a culture, providing a hymen-repair operation (which seems strange to Westerners) for these girls may help them "regain their honor" and move on.

There is a story from the Qur'an about A'isha (one of Prophet Muhammad's wives) being accused of improper behavior.  It took Allah(swt) to reveal verses to clear her.  Sadly, we all don't have that luxury. :)

I think a lot depends on the country and its customs.  Remember, many of these customs pre-date Islam...such as honor-killings.  Here's an interesting article criticizing Pakistan's rape laws from an Islamic perspective

http://www.karamah.org/articles_quraishi.htm

Peace.

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kim! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kim! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2005 at 4:30pm

Thank you, Umsami, for helping illustrate my point.

And I must say (although this may get me branded as even ruder than some people already think I am) that I have had numerous conversations over the internet with males from Pakistan and the VAST majority of the ones I have spoken with seem to hate women with a passion. Yes, I have spoken with some nice Pakistani guys, too, but SO MANY of them seem to fully believe that women should shut up, should put up with whatever treatment comes their way and that they should be grateful for whatever they get. These men are rude, arrogant, possessing _absolutely_ small and closed minds...

I have boggled and despaired at what I have seen being spewed from these men over the internet and it makes me think that the women in Pakistan who are not incredibly affluent and who have little or no education really have no hope at all.

In places where women have no power and no voice, no education and where they are dominated by men wo ALSO have no education, the women really have very little hope.

Kim...

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Nausheen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nausheen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2005 at 9:10pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Jazak allah khair sister UmmSami,  for an informative and detailed read on the zina ordinance in Pakistan.

To say  the least it answers the question Kim has raised, about what is the consequence of rape to a woman who cannot bring forth 4 witnesses. The answer being that rape and adultery  are not same and they are not treated as same within Islamic sharia.

However, most interesting is that Pakistani law, actually protects the criminal, instead of fascilitating to convict him! How could anyone not see this while implementing the law. One can only conclude that the socielty is very patrichial, and protects the honor of men under all circumstances as opposed to that of women, which is the underlying motive of Quranic commands and prohibitions in this case.

The article throws light on many issues, and clears many concepts. A very educational report indeed. Jazak allah khair.

Maa salaama,

Nausheen

<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
[/COLOR]
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firewall View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote firewall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2005 at 10:49pm
i believe with the latest & accurate forensics technology, we can have many witnesses to the crime. rape victims should report the crime, & I believe Allah will always bring justice for her (in this world, or the hereafter).

I've read in the Quran that, real muslims with faith are people who have knowledge. that's why muslims must learn a lot. that way, we'll have experts who can accurately proove such crimes are done by the exact perpetrator. & create moralities, laws & awareness to eradicate such crimes from happenning.


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umsami View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote umsami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2005 at 4:22am

Originally posted by kim! kim! wrote:

In places where women have no power and no voice, no education and where they are dominated by men wo ALSO have no education, the women really have very little hope.

So true. How sad that in the Qur'an and in ahadith both men and women are told to "seek knowledge even if it be in China".  A lot of it is economic.  A lot cultural.  But if you have an uneducated population who must "trust" an Imam/Shaykh who may or may not be very educated himself... or may be interpretating things with his own culture's bias... you're doomed.  That's one of the things that annoys me in the Muslim culture... what I call "Scholar/Imam-Worship."  People say, "Oh...a scholar or an imam said this..." as sort of an excuse to not think anymore.  They don't even care if he's right... they only care that Allah(swt) won't hold them accountable.

One very cool Christian organization (that doesn't proselytize) is called The Heifer Organization (www.heifer.org)  They try and provide sustainable income for low income people (often women) by giving them a gift of an income producing animal, such as goats or bees.  They teach them how to take care of the animal, etc.  When that animal has offspring, the beauty of the program is that the woman is supposed to pass that offspring on to somebody else in her community... thus expanding the gift.  I've read about quite a few girls who were finally able to go to school due to the program.

I know a lot of different Pakistanis... and I think a lot has to do with where in Pakistan they were brought up and education level.  Some revere women... a friend I have fully believes that his wife (when he gets married) won't have to do any housework or the like. (Which is the view of some scholars, but not many that I've met.)  He brings his Mom tea in bed every morning... and no, he's not gay. ;) 

May Allah(swt) help all of our Sisters everywhere. 

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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2005 at 4:52pm

Dear All,

Remember that Pakistan's past is a hindu culture. This culture still prevails in mostly ignorant (of Islam) people. Someone may argue or even scold me for making an excuse of hindu culture, but fact remains that according to this culture, women in any role, is not independant at all and needs a male member for all her life.(Refer: law of Manu chapt 9 (3)).

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dr_sarah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_sarah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2005 at 2:54pm
As i am a new member i dont know where to post this question but thought of the relevant topic...Its one of the same problems i have faced of being raped repeatedly at different occasions by brother in law with contraceptives on his end. Now not having any witness how can i prove to my hubby and family abt the rape by this brother in law which he profoundly denies in front of me and anyone....Can anyone help me...I am living a very happy married life with a year old son
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umsami View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote umsami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2005 at 7:21am

Originally posted by dr_sarah dr_sarah wrote:

As i am a new member i dont know where to post this question but thought of the relevant topic...Its one of the same problems i have faced of being raped repeatedly at different occasions by brother in law with contraceptives on his end. Now not having any witness how can i prove to my hubby and family abt the rape by this brother in law which he profoundly denies in front of me and anyone....Can anyone help me...I am living a very happy married life with a year old son

If you are living in Switzerland (as your log-in implies) perhaps the Swiss authorities can help you?? I would think you could set up a surveillance camera or even a voice-activated tape recorder (to protect your modesty) which would give you the requisite proof. 

I would also contact a Rape Crisis center in your area.  They may be able to offer help.

I'm so sorry for what you are going through Sister.  I will make du'a for you.

Peace.

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