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Question about rape

Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Culture & Community
Forum Name: Groups : Women (Sisters)
Forum Description: Groups : Women (Sisters)
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=839
Printed Date: 28 March 2024 at 10:23pm
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Topic: Question about rape
Posted By: kim!
Subject: Question about rape
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 1:42am

Am just watching a news report about the state of women in various Asian countries...including a poor girl from Bangladesh (?) who was kidnapped and gang raped for 37 days, then was raped again by the police when she was "rescued".

My question is: how does a woman who is raped, for example, go to authorities to report the crime if she doesn't have (or can't get) 4 witnesses to confirm the crime? Apparently, women who manage to be strong enough to try to report rapes often get thrown in jail for adultery because she can't produce 4 witnesses to confirm her story.

Kim...

 




Replies:
Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 08 May 2005 at 5:51pm

No answers yet? I must say I'm a little surprised. Surely _someone_ must know...? Or care.

Kim...



Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 09 May 2005 at 1:07pm

Dear Kim,

I think the forum members a little bit uncomfortable to talk about shariah (islamic law), people/other member may said that "John Doe doesn't have enough knowledge about QURAN AND HADITH (prophet's tradition) but challenging the shariah".

Just my humble opinion (note: I am not good in quran & hadith too), because adultery is very serious 'crime' in islam, so it requires very strong evidence to judge it. 4 witnesses and conviction were the only acceptable evidences on that time.

Rape it is very difficult case to proof it, even in 'modern' law. However in the quran there is an 'example' regarding rape. In surah yusuf/Joseph (chapter 12):

===
12:22 When Joseph attained His full manhood, We gave him power and knowledge: thus do We reward those who do right.

12:23 But she in whose house he was, sought to seduce him from his (true) self: she fastened the doors, and said: "Now come, thou (dear one)!" He said: "(Allah) forbid! truly (thy husband) is my lord! he made my sojourn agreeable! truly to no good come those who do wrong!"

12:24 And (with passion) did she desire him, and he would have desired her, but that he saw the evidence of his Lord: thus (did We order) that We might turn away from him (all) evil and shameful deeds: for he was one of Our servants, sincere and purified.

12:25 So they both raced each other to the door, and she tore his shirt from the back: they both found her lord near the door. She said: "What is the (fitting) punishment for one who formed an evil design against thy wife, but prison or a grievous chastisement?"

12:26 He said: "It was she that sought to seduce me - from my (true) self." And one of her household saw (this) and bore witness, (thus):- "If it be that his shirt is rent from the front, then is her tale true, and he is a liar!

12:27 "But if it be that his shirt is torn from the back, then is she the liar, and he is telling the truth!"

12:28 So when he saw his shirt,- that it was torn at the back,- (her husband) said: "Behold! It is a snare of you women! truly, mighty is your snare!

12:29 "O Joseph, pass this over! (O wife), ask forgiveness for thy sin, for truly thou hast been at fault!"
===

So in this modern day I think 4 witnesses is not the only tool that can be used to proof adultery, dna test and any other modern technology also can be used.

However, again rape is the most difficult case, because there is no scientific tools (at least that I know of) to differentiate between 'making love' by force or not. You can see Tyson's case, Cobe Bryan's case, etc took forever to finalize it.



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Salam/Peace,

Semar

"We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH)

"1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 4:14pm

DNA test? All that proves is who did it - it does NOT prove she was forced.

And I'm sorry if you meant well, but your story just says that women are guilty and that men are their poor, defenceless little victims.

I ask again - HOW can a woman be treated properly by the law/men/society if she does NOT have 4 witnessess who will testify that she was raped?

Perhaps this is why hell is full of women - because a LOT of them sure as hell have no reason to speak well of their society, their men and of life in this world.

Kim...



Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 5:01pm

Kim,

I am not a qualified to provide you with scholastic answer to your question, but in my opnion i would try not to confuse rape and adultery. The latter can take place without force and on mutual agreement, whereas rape is not without force and therefore, more often, should present itself with some evidence. Brother Semar has given some indications from the example of Yusuf (May Allaah be pleased with him).

Hence, in case of rape, the ruling might vary from adultery, as to necessity of sourcing out 4 witnesses. It could be classified as offense equal to torture, humiliation, violation of one's dignity, severe physical abuse or even, and most likely, murder.

From the example that you have pointed it should be clear that it is not Shariah that is at fault or flaw it is people and their ignorance in following it rightly... It is convenience, liberalism and distorted meaning of 'progress' that they try to implement.

What happens in  countries that are known as Muslim is not always reflection of Islaamic teachings. There is no ground whatsoever for the King of Saudi Arabia to remain in his position as the leader of the country if we were to look at Shariah. The leader who can barely take care of himself, and help himslef in his personal daily needs without assistance can't be the ruler, can he.

If Shariah is not practiced at a fundumental level in the country that is known to be 'hardcore' Islamic country how can you expect it to be implemented properly in countries with strong cultural and at times un-Islaamic influences.

It is not the Shariah that should be questioned but whether it is implemented without being intentionally concealed or twisted.



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MOCKBA


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 5:57pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Hello Kim,

Are u presuming that the state of a woman who is raped does not speak of the crime commited on her? How could it be that there are no signs of force on her poor physical self if she has been abused. If she takes her complains to the authorities, she should first be given a medical exam. her relationship with the offender needs to be established, and the signs of abuse shld be ruled out is a case of adultry is to be proven on her .... it can happen, am not denying the posibility. Authorities are fake, and their methods are also fake in several cases, but that does not point a finger at the islamic sharia.

There need to be four witnesses to present a case of adultry, but I don't think the same rule is applicabe in case of a crime like rape.

There is wisdome in having four witnesses, so that people are not  able acuse and have anyone punished on baseless charges. The people who are witnesses, their integrity is also to be taken into consideration for their testimony to apply ... not just anybody can be a witness. If this accusation is between spouses, no four witnesses are required, but they need to swear an oath of being truthful, and swear to have allah's wrath upon them if they are lying ... it is not a light matter, as you may have conceived.

Your mention of the hadith about women in hell at this juncture is not a very intelligent argument, please do not mind. You are interpreting a hadith thru your own conjuncture, and this is not the method of understanding prophetic traditions in islam.

Peace,

Nausheen

 



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<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
[/COLOR]


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 6:05pm

Yes, but if a woman first goes to the police, instead of hospital, they might throw her in jail for adultery because they don't care about her or care to take her seriously or care to go looking for the men who did it.

This happens!

http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=80352&cat=Asia - http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=80352&am p;cat=Asia

And I am not confusing rape and adultery - but apparently many people do! 

Kim...

 



Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by kim! kim! wrote:

Yes, but if a woman first goes to the police, instead of hospital, they might throw her in jail for adultery because they don't care about her or care to take her seriously or care to go looking for the men who did it.

This happens!

http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=80352&cat=Asia - http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=80352&am p;am p;cat=Asia

And I am not confusing rape and adultery - but apparently many people do! 

Kim...

then we are shifting from the 'rape' subject to responsibilities and moral upbringing of the police...



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MOCKBA


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 7:24pm

Yes, but what happens if a woman or a child doesn't really fight back? What if they are so petrified that they don't fight back, and therefore, don't have bruises and marks and whatever?

In a society where, say, girls can be married at age 9, and therefore, deemed to have the ability to tempt men, how does a terrified, unmarked 9 CHILD prive she was raped, and not guilty of adultery?

Kim...

 



Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 8:32pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Originally posted by KIM KIM wrote:

Yes, but if a woman first goes to the police, instead of hospital, they might throw her in jail for adultery because they don't care about her or care to take her seriously or care to go looking for the men who did it.

This happens!

http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=80352&cat=Asia - http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=80352&am p;am p;cat=Asia

Kim, you are not really focuse on your question.

Above you say if the girl goes to the police first .... and then you quote a link which says:

Quote

Nazish, a student of the Government Allama Iqbal Girl College, Sialkot, was kidnapped on January 3 by some car-riders while going to her college. She was kept at an undisclosed place for 37 days before the police recovered her.

Quoting sources, The News today reported that Musharraf has ordered an immediate probe into the gang-rape case that hit headlines worldwide. The President reportedly asked the authorities to leave no stone unturned to reach the truth and unmask the culprits involved in the heinous crime.

Your quote does not match well with your concerns.

Then you say:

Quote Yes, but what happens if a woman or a child doesn't really fight back? What if they are so petrified that they don't fight back, and therefore, don't have bruises and marks and whatever?

A society where girls are married at the age of 9 is likely to be a very closed society. Women are available to men since the age of 9. They keep their women behind painted windows, and they practice honor killings as well. The picture you are trying to paint does not sum up very well ... tho I understand your concerns.

Peace,

Nausheen

 



-------------
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
[/COLOR]


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 11:06pm

It matches perfectly well, I think - she was raped and THEN saw the police _before_ she could get to a hospital. Now, maybe she didn't actively _go_ to the police, they found her instead, but what's the difference?

Assuming these police are as ignorant and as repulsive as they appear to be, what would they have done if she had been raped and then walked herself into the police station for protection and to report the crime? Sounds like they still would have raped her and thrown her in jail for adultery, don't you think?

Kim...



Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 11 May 2005 at 9:57am

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

 

Hello Kim,

What I read from the article, She was kept at an undisclosed place for 37 days before the police recovered her.

So, basically, the police did not throw her in jail for the crime being commited on her. - In other words, the report does not seem to say, she was accused of adultry and then put into jail, as you have implied in your former responses, or is there anything I am missing?

Peace,

Nausheen



-------------
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
[/COLOR]


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 11 May 2005 at 5:08pm

No, she was kidnapped for 37 days, raped during this time by her captors, and then the police found her, took her back to the station and raped her again.

I will try to find other examples of my point, if you wish.

Kim...



Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 11 May 2005 at 7:45pm

let me repeat.

well, this is a kind of question that cannot have a general answer without reference to a specific case. There are so many aspects to be considered in a thorough investigation... this is Sherlock Holmes stuff, science of crime detection... it is not as raw as some qadi (judge) going through private parts of the victim with a magnifying glass and shouting out a verdict to a crowd of dishevelled bearded toothless apparition-like onlookers in scuffed clothes, as some may mistakenly want to imagine. 
 

The way the discussion has developed, it has no longer relevance to Islamic perspective on rape adultery and punishemnt for both. It is more of injustice performed by the very people appointed to establish order.

 



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MOCKBA


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 11 May 2005 at 8:30pm

Ok, so let's go back to the original question - how does a woman who cannot get 4 witnesses to confirm she was attacked and that she was not part of mutually consenting adultery report that she has been raped without being punished for adultery?

Kim...



Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 11 May 2005 at 9:57pm

...through a thorough investigation that will take into account her story, evidences, events and all available data with reference to the crime and the accused (if he is known).

4 witnesses are required for someone to accuse someone else of adultery. For example for a husband to accuse his wife, or for a neighbour to accuse the wife of his neighbour, or for a relative to accuse the husband of her relative. In this case 4 witnesses are required, to prevent the gossipers' tongue from destroying innocent families out of spite and jealousy. If you saw something, produce another 4 witnesses... otherwise mind your own business and take a walk. I must add that going through specifics of the procedure one will come to a conclusion that it is very difficult to accuse and prove someone guilty of adultery.

Rape case is different. As i said earlier, and if more knowledgeable and informed people on this board could provide more evidence, it is not a conseted act and is most probably classified under transgression. In this case, a different and thorough investigation will take place, which may not require four witnesses but will welcome any. Once a woman makes a report of being raped... it is not adultery and she has to present her case accordingly... under transgression you need not come up with 4 witnesses if you can't. She should not conceal the crime... But many cultures, mainly due to tribal customs and beliefs, there is negative treatment of vicitms... which is un-Islaamic and purely cultural. This makes victims ashamed to report and conceal the crime... and can create more complexities in the future. Mind, this is not Islaam. 

Adultery may be artificially turned to rape when (despite initial consent of both) one of the parties accuses the other of using force... Most of the time, it is licentious men that fall victims (though the punishment is the same, anyway), for it is not always easy for a woman to rape a men, although must admit there are known and rare instances.

With regards to the case you made reference to, and as Sister Nausheen pointed out, it is not clear what was the woman jailed for, was it adultery or was it something else. It may be the act of pure injustice performed by the police, a frame, a falsification (remeber appearance versus reality)... even in so-called civilized countries they have heavily guarded facilities where rape and torture is brought upon people who don't know their crimes by the people that are assigned to guard and take care of the former. It is not about rape and adultery anymore... its evolution to a greater evil.

 

 



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MOCKBA


Posted By: umsami
Date Posted: 12 May 2005 at 7:49am

Assalamu Alaikum:

Unreported rape is a BIG problem in the Muslim world because of the points you bring up.  Also, sadly, many people believe that the girl/woman somehow asked for it... which is where we were as a society not too long ago. (I remember a movie with Jodie Foster in it where they tried to say that how she dressed caused her to be raped. Many Muslims I know of would agree with that! :P)

I think we need to set up more counseling centers/health clinics for women who have been raped (or victims of domestic violence.)  They need counseling.  They need to be tested for STDs, pregnancy, etc.  Even if they can't report it, these things need to happen.  In a culture of fear (for the victim), they won't even get these basics.  Also, in such a culture, providing a hymen-repair operation (which seems strange to Westerners) for these girls may help them "regain their honor" and move on.

There is a story from the Qur'an about A'isha (one of Prophet Muhammad's wives) being accused of improper behavior.  It took Allah(swt) to reveal verses to clear her.  Sadly, we all don't have that luxury. :)

I think a lot depends on the country and its customs.  Remember, many of these customs pre-date Islam...such as honor-killings.  Here's an interesting article criticizing Pakistan's rape laws from an Islamic perspective

http://www.karamah.org/articles_quraishi.htm - http://www.karamah.org/articles_quraishi.htm

Peace.



Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 12 May 2005 at 4:30pm

Thank you, Umsami, for helping illustrate my point.

And I must say (although this may get me branded as even ruder than some people already think I am) that I have had numerous conversations over the internet with males from Pakistan and the VAST majority of the ones I have spoken with seem to hate women with a passion. Yes, I have spoken with some nice Pakistani guys, too, but SO MANY of them seem to fully believe that women should shut up, should put up with whatever treatment comes their way and that they should be grateful for whatever they get. These men are rude, arrogant, possessing _absolutely_ small and closed minds...

I have boggled and despaired at what I have seen being spewed from these men over the internet and it makes me think that the women in Pakistan who are not incredibly affluent and who have little or no education really have no hope at all.

In places where women have no power and no voice, no education and where they are dominated by men wo ALSO have no education, the women really have very little hope.

Kim...



Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 12 May 2005 at 9:10pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Jazak allah khair sister UmmSami,  for an informative and detailed read on the zina ordinance in Pakistan.

To say  the least it answers the question Kim has raised, about what is the consequence of rape to a woman who cannot bring forth 4 witnesses. The answer being that rape and adultery  are not same and they are not treated as same within Islamic sharia.

However, most interesting is that Pakistani law, actually protects the criminal, instead of fascilitating to convict him! How could anyone not see this while implementing the law. One can only conclude that the socielty is very patrichial, and protects the honor of men under all circumstances as opposed to that of women, which is the underlying motive of Quranic commands and prohibitions in this case.

The article throws light on many issues, and clears many concepts. A very educational report indeed. Jazak allah khair.

Maa salaama,

Nausheen



-------------
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
[/COLOR]


Posted By: firewall
Date Posted: 12 May 2005 at 10:49pm
i believe with the latest & accurate forensics technology, we can have many witnesses to the crime. rape victims should report the crime, & I believe Allah will always bring justice for her (in this world, or the hereafter).

I've read in the Quran that, real muslims with faith are people who have knowledge. that's why muslims must learn a lot. that way, we'll have experts who can accurately proove such crimes are done by the exact perpetrator. & create moralities, laws & awareness to eradicate such crimes from happenning.




Posted By: umsami
Date Posted: 13 May 2005 at 4:22am

Originally posted by kim! kim! wrote:

In places where women have no power and no voice, no education and where they are dominated by men wo ALSO have no education, the women really have very little hope.

So true. How sad that in the Qur'an and in ahadith both men and women are told to "seek knowledge even if it be in China".  A lot of it is economic.  A lot cultural.  But if you have an uneducated population who must "trust" an Imam/Shaykh who may or may not be very educated himself... or may be interpretating things with his own culture's bias... you're doomed.  That's one of the things that annoys me in the Muslim culture... what I call "Scholar/Imam-Worship."  People say, "Oh...a scholar or an imam said this..." as sort of an excuse to not think anymore.  They don't even care if he's right... they only care that Allah(swt) won't hold them accountable.

One very cool Christian organization (that doesn't proselytize) is called The Heifer Organization ( http://www.heifer.org - www.heifer.org )  They try and provide sustainable income for low income people (often women) by giving them a gift of an income producing animal, such as goats or bees.  They teach them how to take care of the animal, etc.  When that animal has offspring, the beauty of the program is that the woman is supposed to pass that offspring on to somebody else in her community... thus expanding the gift.  I've read about quite a few girls who were finally able to go to school due to the program.

I know a lot of different Pakistanis... and I think a lot has to do with where in Pakistan they were brought up and education level.  Some revere women... a friend I have fully believes that his wife (when he gets married) won't have to do any housework or the like. (Which is the view of some scholars, but not many that I've met.)  He brings his Mom tea in bed every morning... and no, he's not gay. ;) 

May Allah(swt) help all of our Sisters everywhere. 



Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 17 May 2005 at 4:52pm

Dear All,

Remember that Pakistan's past is a hindu culture. This culture still prevails in mostly ignorant (of Islam) people. Someone may argue or even scold me for making an excuse of hindu culture, but fact remains that according to this culture, women in any role, is not independant at all and needs a male member for all her life.(Refer: law of Manu chapt 9 (3)).



Posted By: dr_sarah
Date Posted: 22 May 2005 at 2:54pm
As i am a new member i dont know where to post this question but thought of the relevant topic...Its one of the same problems i have faced of being raped repeatedly at different occasions by brother in law with contraceptives on his end. Now not having any witness how can i prove to my hubby and family abt the rape by this brother in law which he profoundly denies in front of me and anyone....Can anyone help me...I am living a very happy married life with a year old son


Posted By: umsami
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 7:21am

Originally posted by dr_sarah dr_sarah wrote:

As i am a new member i dont know where to post this question but thought of the relevant topic...Its one of the same problems i have faced of being raped repeatedly at different occasions by brother in law with contraceptives on his end. Now not having any witness how can i prove to my hubby and family abt the rape by this brother in law which he profoundly denies in front of me and anyone....Can anyone help me...I am living a very happy married life with a year old son

If you are living in Switzerland (as your log-in implies) perhaps the Swiss authorities can help you?? I would think you could set up a surveillance camera or even a voice-activated tape recorder (to protect your modesty) which would give you the requisite proof. 

I would also contact a Rape Crisis center in your area.  They may be able to offer help.

I'm so sorry for what you are going through Sister.  I will make du'a for you.

Peace.



Posted By: UmTayyab
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 2:05pm

The problem was already addressed, there is no one here qualified to explain the Shariah Law pertaining to rape.  It is my understanding that in the case of rape, a woman who is attacked MUST cry out to prevent the rape and expose the attacker.  If she is in the populated area in which her cries can be heard, she is judged innocent.  If she is in an area where her cries cannot be heard, she is also deemed innocent.  If she doesn't cry out... well, I don't have the proof in front of me so I will stop there.  The problem lies in the fact that she was alone.

Islam gives women the dignity of giving responsibility for their safety to the men of her family.  She should not be without a male member of her family, one who can protect her, if she is likely to be accosted.  This is not an oppression on the woman, but a protection.  Who in their right mind would allow their 9 year old daughter to walk herself to school, even in our so called safe neighborhoods here in the west?

For the sister who was abused by the brother-in-law, you should go to a qualified scholar and pose your question to him.  Without proof, you may destroy your marriage.  If this activity has ceased, you must decide whether or not to pursue it, weighing the probability that he is now abusing another member of your family.  If he is still abusing you, you have a duty to expose him, you cannot allow him to touch you ever again!!! but it is imperative that you seek the advise of a knowledgable Sheikh in this matter, and not follow the advise of unqualified strangers.



Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 26 May 2005 at 11:24am

Bismillah,

Sarah, How can you be happily married and yet getting raped by your brother-in-law?  Are you just making the best out of a bad situation?

Take my advice if you want this to stop.  Leave your happy marriage taking your son with you.  Resolve custody issues later.  Your husband is worthless, absolutely worthless Islamically because he has defaulted on his most important duty:  To protect you.

You have to ignore your loving feelings for him and act Islamically!  Waiting for a man to help you could take until Judgment Day!

(You could get a tape recorder if you are willing to be raped again to expose him.  But willing to be raped is oxymoronic.  So I reiterate: Leave now!

Trust me.  I care about you and your situation.  You must leave.  The sheikhs will give you differing opinons.  They may offer to help you, and you might find yourself in a worse situation.  Be careful of the help you actually accept.



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: UmTayyab
Date Posted: 26 May 2005 at 11:39am

Sister Sarah, please don't listen to people who tell you to leave your husband, see this is why I said do not follow unqualified strangers.

herjihad, it is not clear if she meant this is a past abuse or a continuing abuse.  It is not clear if her husband knows, it is not clear who she even told, so leave her alone!  You are not qualified to tell a woman to destroy her marriage and her child, and you make such a suggestion over a few vague sentences.  You see what women are capable of!  You think you know something and advise another woman to destroy her marriage!  Be quiet and mind your manners! Just because you have a hate on for all men doesn't mean all men are wrong.

Sister Sarah, you know what has happened, and you know your situation.  Take your inquiry to a qualified Sheikh who can help you decide what to do.  May Allah make it easy for you.



Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 27 May 2005 at 5:27am

Bismillah,

Sister Sarah, If you need to talk further, please post something.  Of course, if the brother-in-law will never have the chance to do that again, that is a different situation. 

Your husband is still Islamically deficient because his primary duty is to protect you.  If he didn't trust you and protect you in this situation, what other situations will he fail you in?  You decide that because it is your life.  May Allah, SWT, make it easy for you. 

Remember to be careful trusting any man, even a sheikh.  Never be alone with a man, or in a group of men.  May Allah, SWT, give you the strength and wisdom you need all of your life.  Trust Allah, SWT, the Most Trustworthy, the Most Merciful.



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: dr_sarah
Date Posted: 27 May 2005 at 11:16am

Thank you Sisters for giving me advice. Actually i love my husband a lot and the same he does. The problem is to prove the rape which is very difficult and further difficult to point out the person who is part of this family his very own brother. Hub is in very confused state of mind and even i would be if in his place. Yes the rape has been repeatedly on different occasions. I dont want to break up..Yup i ll see a Sheikh to help me out and guide me. May Allah help me out of this situation. Please Pray

Sarah



Posted By: firewall
Date Posted: 27 May 2005 at 4:29pm
i'm sad you have to endure that sarah. i think you shouldn't be alone with your brother in law ever again. don't put yourself in a position where you will be trapped. take bath when your husband, mom-in-law or other trusted people is around. if you're left alone at home with him, go out to the neighbours. ask your sister/friend/neighbour to accompany you, etc... please  don't be alone with him... you can make that change. avoid the traps.

and if you do ever get raped, don't wash yourself. there's evidence of rape there (e.g. his semen etc). you can go to the hospital & report the rape. i believe the doctors should know what to do.

i can imagine how hard it is, what if people don't believe me, i feel so bad. but i also believe men like that usually don't rape one woman. he'll rape others too -- so just imagine if you had a daughter. she might be his next victim! so report him! i imagine if i'm in your place, i'd turn my fear of him into anger (a good anger). that way i can have the bravery to report him & bring him to justice.

& please never be alone by yourself. take care. i hope you can get out of this situation. may Allah help you.


Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 29 May 2005 at 11:59pm

I feel bad for you that this is happening to you. The only way to prove it to your husband is to look for "identifying marks" if this ever happens again. Like a birthmark or something you could not know. Of course you could carry a large stick and beat the $&$& out of him or scratch his face. That would give you DNA too and prove to your husband that what you are saying is true.

Also, no matter if you think you do not have proof. Report it to the police. This will let your husband know you are serious. It sounds incredulous to me that your husband has not already beat his brother within an inch of his life. Remember, if you can scratch him and get the DNA under your fingernails you can tie it to other DNA. Go to the hospital and see a doctor and let them know that you were raped. Also, write down everything that happened to you in the past, so that you have written proof too.

Hope some of this helps,

 

Lameese



Posted By: Ali Zaki
Date Posted: 08 June 2005 at 9:42am

Salam to dr_Sarah,

I'm sorry to "intrude" into the sisters forum (as I am a brother), however, I just had to say something as I cannot believe what I am hearing in this post!

If your husband is allowing this situation to occur, then either he thinks you are lying, or he is NOT A MAN AT ALL. A correct understanding of this issue does not require any understanding of Islam at all, just simple humanity and logic. My apologies to the knowledgable sisters, but you are complicating this issue and (maybe) confusing this sister.

As a husband, I can tell you that is someone raped my wife, whether it was my father, my brother or anyone else they would not BE ABLE to ever repeat this action. I will not go into details, but I think you get my point. Of course, I doubt that anyone would ever be able to attempt this, as my wife (in 5 years of marriage) has NEVER been alone with a non-muharram man. It is my duty, first and foremost, to protect my wife in children. If anything happens to them because of my negligence, then I AM RESPONSIBLE, and will be accountable before Allah (s.w.a.)

In fact, because I am a revert (convert), I would not even allow my wife to be alone with my father or grandfather as they are non-Muslims (although they are muharram). I don't have any reason to believe that anything would happen if I did, however, a husband must exercise a maximum degree of caution on these issues.

I don't know you, or your individual situation. As a result, I can't give you advice on what to do in your individual situation. I will pray for you, and ask that Allah (s.w.a) gives you relief and the right answer. Truly Allah is Al-Huda (the source of all guidance).

Salam



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"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)


Posted By: ummziba
Date Posted: 08 June 2005 at 11:45am

Assalamu alaikum brother Ali Zaki,

Your wife is blessed to have such a good and protective husband.  You must realize, though, that this is not the reality for many, many of us Muslim sisters.

Peace, ummziba.



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Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~


Posted By: Ali Zaki
Date Posted: 08 June 2005 at 1:16pm

Salam to all,

Thank you for your kind words Ummziba. I'm sure you're husband is blessed as well.

Dr_Sara, is you're husband a Muslim? (or does anyone else know).

Salam



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"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)


Posted By: dr_sarah
Date Posted: 09 June 2005 at 7:40am

Thank you all for showing your concerns. I am happy that there are people who can help others and give advice to others who are in need.

Yes, my husband is a muslim but not a perfect muslim. I am in a sitaution where i am not blaming my husband for all that i have had or i am suffering. Its just that the brother in law takes the advantage of the situation and he is good at removing all the proof. He is a doctor himself so he makes the move a calculated one. I cannot disclose at this forum in details, so its a complicated one where i cannot blame my husband and in reality a husband cannot protect a wife round the clock, except for some exceptions. I love my husband and i never had any complaints as a wife.

May God give me and all others who are in distress, the strength to face and get out of these sorta situations.

Regards



Posted By: Ali Zaki
Date Posted: 09 June 2005 at 8:42am

Salam alakum dr_Sarah,

Belive me, I have not led a sheltered life (I was raised in Los Angeles, Ca. until 21 as a "Christian" (in name only) and a singer in a "rock" band until Allah (s.w.a.) guided and corrected me). I am the last person in the world who likes to give advice to someone (especially unsolicited advice) and I don't know (nor do I have a desire to know) the details of your life situation.

I must say, however, that my heart went out to you when I read you post and I was genuinely astonished at how this could be happening in any type of household, much less a Muslim one. My main motivation for posting was to give you another Muslim husbands perspective (as I am aware that this forum is intended for Womens issues).

I am not presumptious enought to tell you what you should do, however, I will stand by my statement that the main responsiblity (especially for a Muslim man) of a husband is to protect his wife and family. I believe that even the providing for (which is also wajib for a man) comes second in importance. The reason is logical. Most women can provide for themselves and their children financially (if neccessary, especially in the West), however, they cannot (in most cases) defend themselves when attacked by other men. So who can defend them EXCEPT THEIR HUSBAND.

I would strongly encourage you to seek counseling together from a pious Muslim scholar that you trust, and you think will be helpful. If you cannot find one in your area, let me know and I will see if any of my connections can give you a referal in Switzerland (or another place, if this is not where you are).

I will continue to remember you in my dua'a. May Allah help you and give you his guidance and mercy in this difficult time.

Salam.



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"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)


Posted By: Ali Zaki
Date Posted: 09 June 2005 at 10:17am

ONE MORE THING,

TO ALL SISTERS (and brothers);

Tonight is Laylat Al'Jummat, and the gates of Allah's mercy are open wide tonight (as we all know). I humbly request that we remember dr_sarah in our dua.

Salam



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"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 10 June 2005 at 10:27am
I have to say that I think Muslim men are seriously failing at thier duty to protect muslim women. Muslim men like to interpret the Hadiths to thier advantage to take maximum advantage of women and abuse them to the fullest. As a convert this is my biggest complaint and feel that Muslim men are so far from the prophet and how he taught women that they are just lost in the dessert. I feel sorry for women of the world, will Allah Pak forgive the men?

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You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Ali Zaki
Date Posted: 10 June 2005 at 10:38am

Peace to Jenni,

" Muslim men like to interpret the Hadiths to thier advantage to take maximum advantage of women and abuse them to the fullest."

" I feel sorry for women of the world, will Allah Pak forgive the men?"

I must object to this statemet, as I am a Muslim man. I have seen many gender specific prejudicial statements (directed against both genders) in the "Womens (Sisters) " and " Men (Brothers)" Forum. This is not helpful, and only causes fitna (division) in our Umma. Please (both Brothers and Sisters), stop posting these things!

I'm sorry if you have had some negative experiences with Muslim men in your life, however, there are some Muslim men who have harmonious and happy lives with their wives and children because the commandments of Allah (s.w.a.) are obeyed and the Prophets (and the Ahly Al'Bayts) directives and advice are followed.

Peace



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"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 10 June 2005 at 10:55am
I agree there are many good Muslim men in the world. And non Muslim men may be worse. But when a man goes to the Mosque and prays and fasts and is kind to his mother and never says thank you to his wife and turns her into a maid, is he really a good husband? At a recent Haliqa in my local masjid about happiness in Marraige all of the women out of 20 except two were very sad and angry about thier marriages. None of them complained about not having a nice house or money. They all felt unnapreciated and like thier husbands treat them like second class servents. They don't help with the kids and when thier wives are pregnant or sick they don't cut them any slack and help out. These women are sad!!! And if a woman is ever a victim, is she is molested as a youngster or raped men will blame her first. The man in Muslim coutries is allmost never convicted of rape, just look at the exapmle in Pakistan of the gang rape of a tribal woman by her husband and a bunch of thugs, the guys were all let go today!!

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You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Ali Zaki
Date Posted: 10 June 2005 at 11:45am

Peace to Jenni,

" there are many good Muslim men in the world. And non Muslim men may be worse"

Ahsan! Thank you for the correction. I knew (when I read your post) that you did not believe what you were saying (Just like most brothers who post ridiculous, anti-women statements are just reacting emotionally about their individual situation and generalize their feelings.) However, I only made the statement because I want to encourage the posting of true and rational statements. When a person says "All these people are like this" it is like a beautiful person (man or women) wearing a dirty or torn garment (i.e., it makes them look ugly even if they are not, in reality, unattractive).

"The man in Muslim coutries is allmost never convicted of rape"

Again, I would discourage you from generalizing. I am not familiar with the specific case to which you refer, however, I do know that only those people who have access to ALL the evidence and testimony from all parties and are qualified can (possibly) make a judgement on a specific case. I am not defending those who are accussed of this crime (or acusing the alleged victim), I am saying that we cannot possibly come to any definate conclusions on this case based on a news reporters opinion.  

In general, Rape is not reported as often in Muslim countries. Whether that is because less rapes occur or because they are not reported I don't know. However, what I can tell you is that the crime of Rape is dealt with much more severly in Muslim society when it is proven to have occured. In my experience, if a rapist is known as such, he will often never make it (alive) to the courthouse. I am not defending vigilantism, however, this is the reality.

Peace



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"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)


Posted By: simojt_marjun
Date Posted: 26 May 2009 at 9:26am
Hi I'm new here it so sound it was a rape and why you don't report to the police port the abuse. By the way thank to share your story if you have more source to have more advice about I was rape try this free ebook. You can share your story too.

thankgodforebooks.com/raped.html


Posted By: Pati
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 12:32pm
Hi,
 
There is a medical way to prove a raping, because of the damages inside the woman, so by that side, I don't think there would be any problem. I am not going to give any details, but just think that the situation when you are having sexual relations with someone in forced way is opposite to the one where you want to do, and your body is not answering to the situation in the same way. There are lot of proofs in a raped women.
 
The main problem is to take the decision of going to the hospital (the first thing that they should do). You just were raped... and you have to think quickly... It's difficult, and it should be a really strong woman to face this terrible situation.
 
In Spain, for instance, we have an anonymous center, Family Planning Centers, where the people can go for sexual advice, as well as for help in this situation. It's really a grat resource, because you can ask them about any doubt you may have, and this is very important, especially when you are too young or having no knowledge of this matter.
 
This centers are also taking care of the abused women or children, so they can go there for help.
 
I think that in the Muslim culture, there is a problem because you are not sharing (normally) your experiences or your intimate problems. It's like too personal to share, and sure some of the things should be kept, but also it's good to hear from close people their experiences, as well as to tell them yours. It's good to learn from other people experiences.
 
Regards
 
 


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No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 7:40pm
Pati,

Good advice, along with that, other cultures, not just Islamic, less so then here, but still occurs here, blaming the woman for the rape.. 

I also don't think other cultures are set up with specific guidelines. And having read alot, the police are quite corrupt and many people fear  the police. More so then here.


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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Pati
Date Posted: 28 May 2009 at 1:17pm
Hi Hayfa,
 
I know that it's only Islamic culture which has this tradition of hiding the personal things, it's only that most of you are muslims.
 
Really, the reaction of the raped woman environment is the most important to help her. If she feels that they will make her guilty, she will keep the secret, so that will never stops. It's very important to be opened in this way with the girls since they are children.
 
In my high school, a girl (with 15 years old) was raped by 5 boys (all of them under 18 years old). She went to the hospital, to the police, they went to the court... and of course the justice condened them, but not the society. The conclusion that most of the people got from the situation was that she was guilty, because her robe was too much short, her shirt was opened, she was wearing make up and she was talking with them... it was crazy!!! Finally, she moved to another town and restarted her life (now, she is 31 years old, a nice husband and three children).
 
It's important to show our children that this situation should be answered with patiance, support and over everything, not blaming the victim.
 
Regards


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No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 29 May 2009 at 4:18am
Sometimes a little self-defense training goes along way..

I know a woman who took a really good self-defense class. It is 5 sessions of 5 hours each. And its practical based www.dcimpact.org.

In the middle of the course, she  was with her toddler, and a baby and was attacked by three men. She managed to knock them all out!







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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Mystical
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 3:42pm
It saddens me that Muslim women fall for this lie of needing FOUR witnesses to prove rape. What happens to Muslims is common sense is left behind because Muslims believe a LIE  and the defence of this "truth" (needing FOUR witnesses) is deplorable and is directly to blame for the injustices perpetrated on victims of rapes.  
 
A woman alone in her own home can be raped by a burglar but without the witnesses where is her proof? Does that mean she was not raped? No, it simply means Islam or Sharia Law will not accept her word for it so she does not speak out of fear. The is no or little justice for women under Sharia Law. Secular law will give woman more justice, you dont need 4 witnesses and your testimony is EQUAL to that of a man. A woman doent need an outside witness to her ordeal, her bodily will have physical evidence of it. Rape is not a tender joining of bodies but a violent one.
 
Question for the ladies here: If you were raped would you rather your rapist be judged under Sharia Law or Western Secular Law?


Posted By: Mystical
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 4:09pm
"there are many good Muslim men in the world. And non Muslim men may be worse"
 
Muslim bias. All men (includes women) are equal, one is not more worthy because they hold to a certain set of beliefs over another. Again common sense. We are all on differing points in our journey towards God and only God knows one heart and intent towards Him and our fellowman that is why He is Judge and not men. Telling Muslims they are the "best of men" is another LIE, we are all equally in need of salvation and have equal struggles towards attaining this. Believing in Mohammad's version of what is godly does not make you a better person than I who believes in Jesus as the purest example of a man.
 
Although the Law demanded stoning as punishment for the woman caught in adultery Jesus did not demand that this be carried out instead he said to her accusers " Let you who is without sin throw the first stone".  I am wondering what would Mohammad have done in this situation?
 
Keep in mind Jesus was a Jew not a Muslim. Yes, he submitted fully to God but He and all those who lived before Mohammad was not a Muslim in the sense of what is a Muslim today. Muslims today are also compelled to claim Mohammad as the Seal of the Prophets.


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 8:49am
file:///C:%5CUsers%5CPINKPA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml -

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CPINKPA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml -

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CPINKPA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml -

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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 8:51am
file:///C:%5CUsers%5CPINKPA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml -

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CPINKPA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml - Hi Mystical,

I deal alot with crime... I study it, I teach self-defense etc. And frankly , western secular law is  just as faulty. 
1. There is not always physical proof. The difficulty in prosecuting rape is why so many rapists are not caught. Most often it is a 'he-said'-  she said' situation. 
2. If say someone were to break into my apartment and hold a gun to my head and tell me to submit (*threat of violence is one way to subdue women) and I submit, to save my own life, there may be very little of the 'proof' you say exists. Most women who do submit do so out of threat of greater violence. Even though there is no 'proof' it is still a rape.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CPINKPA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml -
3. I do not care about the 'system' of justice that man tries to create / monitor. The reality is that we humans are failings.

4. I do not think you need 4 witnesses in a case of rape.   I will try and find the information.  Also I do not think Shariah law is actually enforced in most places. -
file:///C:%5CUsers%5CPINKPA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml - 6. Having studied crime, there is little justice in this world. Innocent people go to jail. Just see with advent of DNA testing how many people were freed. People are falsely accused all the time. Even in crimes of rape. 

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CPINKPA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml -  

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CPINKPA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml - -   But no society is free from crime. Ultimately on the Day of Judgement we will answer for ourselves.


please escuse the underline, could not get rid of it
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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 9:19am
Although the Law demanded stoning as punishment for the woman caught in adultery Jesus did not demand that this be carried out instead he said to her accusers " Let you who is without sin throw the first stone".  I am wondering what would Mohammad have done in this situation?

There is a fine line between justice and mercy. Do we not want the rapist punished but not the adulterer?  Is is not a case by case? What about the pedophile who destroys children's lives? Do we turn the other cheek?"

You say you want western justice when we have 2 million people on prison, yes as a Christian should you not have mercy?

I read a piece by Cornell West he said Judaism brought law, Jesus brought mercy and Islam brought justice.  I thought it was apt.  We need all.

i saw a horrible crime by this woman kidnapped and tortured by this man and woman. Horrible crimes. Its on a show called Escaped on Discovery Investigation. She escaped and it turns out they  had kidnapped, tortured and killed over 35 women.

Now we all face the balance between mercy and justice. It is a fine line.

You on one post say there is no justice in Shariah law and then say that we should  "love thy enemy" mentality.. Which is fine and deals with matters of the heart. There is a more practical matter of how does society and live and govern.



In fact to accuse a person of zinain Islam you need 4r witnesses.. making it very difficult to make the accusation and ruin peoples' lives.




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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 4:17pm
http://www.womenmatter.net/fairco_whatstheproblem.htm - http://www.womenmatter.net/fairco_whatstheproblem.htm  

Rape

For women, rape might appear to be an open and shut case; if we do not consent to sex, a rape has been committed. Unfortunately, it is not this simple in the courts. Rape is often very difficult to prove. The lack of consent is one element of proving a rape, but in many states, this is not enough to prove that a rape has occurred.

The common law definition of rape is "sexual intercourse achieved by force or threat of force without consent of the victim". By requiring force or the threat of force, the legal system perpetuates the myth that a rapist is a strange man who jumps from behind the bushes at night. In addition, when there is a force or threat of force requirement, non-physical or non-imminent threats are not enough to prove a rape. As if this does not make proving rape difficult enough, many states also require the proof of "reasonable resistance" on the part of the rape victim.

With the current rules in many jurisdictions, it is difficult for women in an abusive relationship to prove rape because 1) the abuse might be emotional so there might not be physical force or 2) the fear and submission to sex might be due to past violence and not a contemporaneous threat. For example, in State v. Alston, a woman broke off an abusive relationship with her boyfriend. The woman saw her abusive ex-boyfriend some time much later and they had sex. Even though the ex-boyfriend did not physically force the woman to have sex, there was implicit threat of force due to past incidents. A lower court convicted the man but he appealed and a higher court reversed the conviction due to a lack of physical force.

Another complexity with the force or threat of physical force requirement is that courts distinguish between offers and threats. The difference might seem clear, an offer makes you better off and a threat makes you worse off. However, sometimes the difference is murky and two cases, demonstrate this. In Thompson, a higher court reversed the conviction of a high school principal who told a female senior that she would not graduate unless she "slept"� with him. The senior had sex with the principal in order to graduate. According to the higher court, the principal did not threaten the young woman, he offered her something, and that was not sufficient to constitute a rape.

Similarly, in Commonwealth v. Mlinarich, a higher court reversed the conviction of a man who had custody of a teenage girl who had previously been in a juvenile detention facility. The man told the girl that he would return her to the facility if she did not have sex with him. She complied. Even though the man was initially convicted, he appealed and the higher court said that he made the child an offer and did not threaten her. Luckily some states have abolished the threat and reasonable resistance requirements, but they are in the minority.

Spousal rape was unheard of in our legal system until the 1970s. Until then, a husband could not have raped his wife by the definition of the crime. Now, spousal rape is a crime in all fifty states. Shockingly, North Carolina, the last state to abolish spousal rape, did not do so until 1993. In California the legislature has determined that whenever a woman says "no", even if she originally said "yes," the continuation of forced intercourse constitutes rape.

 
http://www.pbs.org/kued/nosafeplace/articles/rapefeat.html - http://www.pbs.org/kued/nosafeplace/articles/rapefeat.html
"Most rapists are never caught, and conviction rates for those apprehended are notoriously low. According to Department of Justice statistics, 48 percent of accused rapists were released before trial. Of those tried, only 54 percent were sentenced to prison. Even more troubling is that the average sex offender may commit hundreds of crimes in his lifetime, which means that the vast majority of rapes go undetected and unpunished."
 
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761564013_2/Rape_%28law%29.html - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761564013_2/Rape_(law).html
 
C

In the United States

The English common law served as the model for criminal law in the United States, including rape laws. However, U.S. laws added to the protections against false accusations of rape. For example, many states instituted a special corroboration rule for rape prosecutions. This rule provided that in the absence of corroborating physical evidence (such as semen or bruises) or the testimony of a witness, a rape victim�s testimony was insufficient evidence on which to convict a defendant. As was the case with English law, this requirement assumed that the primary objective of the law was to protect men from false accusations rather than to protect women from rape.

C 1

Changing Attitudes

As women gained greater legal protections under civil rights laws and acquired more political equality, traditional rape laws came under attack. Beginning in the 1960s, members of the women�s movement assailed many of the assumptions on which rape laws were based. For example, they criticized the fact that rape laws were preoccupied with protecting men from false accusations. According to these activists, the laws not only failed to adequately protect women, they often did women harm. Citing research indicating that women who resisted rapists were more likely to incur serious physical injury, reformers called into question the appropriateness of the utmost resistance doctrine.

The identification of rape trauma syndrome also affected attitudes and laws concerning rape. Rape trauma syndrome, a form of http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761589458/Post-Traumatic_Stress_Disorder.html - post-traumatic stress disorder , is a psychological reaction to rape involving feelings of shock and shame. Victims who experience this syndrome are often reluctant to report a rape. Discovery of rape trauma syndrome undermined the fresh complaint rule, which was based on the assumption that delayed complaints of rape were less reliable.

Reformers also criticized the fairness of the special corroboration rule. They noted that the typical reaction of a victim experiencing rape trauma syndrome is to shower, to change and discard any damaged clothing, and to hide bruises. Consequently, many victims quickly destroy the physical evidence that a prosecution might later require under the corroboration rule.

C 2

Legal Reforms

In the 1970s most states began to change their laws concerning rape. Many states redefined rape and eliminated some of the common law doctrines and their biases against victims. Beginning with Massachusetts in 1968 and Tennessee in 1971, most states have ended the requirement�usually extremely difficult to meet�that a complainant, or alleged rape victim, produce corroborating evidence to the crime. Some states have passed laws enabling males to press charges of sexual assault.

Another important legal reform was the enactment of rape shield laws. Rape shield laws strictly limit the ways in which defense attorneys can question the complainant about her general sexual conduct. Proponents of shield laws argued that such questioning was used in trials, often unfairly, to insinuate that the accuser probably had consented to having sex. The shield laws emphasize the rights of the complainants rather than those of the accused rapists. Some critics argue that the new laws can more easily lead to the conviction of an innocent person.

Following the English model, some U.S. states punished rape as a capital offense. However, a 1977 decision of the http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761574302/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States.html - Supreme Court of the United States ruled this practice unconstitutional. Today state statutes typically provide for a substantial number of years of imprisonment, including life imprisonment, for persons convicted of rape. In 1997 Montana adopted a law authorizing the death penalty as punishment for a second conviction of rape involving serious bodily injury. Whether this law is constitutional in light of the Supreme Court�s earlier decision has not yet been addressed.



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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 4:22pm
http://newsblaze.com/story/20090106083220iwfs.nb/topstory.html -

An Assault on Justice: Rape Kits Go Unexamined

http://newsblaze.com/story/20090106083220iwfs.nb/topstory.html
 

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- Missing rape kits foil justice

- Rape kits routinely vanish, unfuriating victims and prosecutors alike. Even when evidence is intact, laws can keep suspects like William Harold Johnson walking free in our midst.
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- http://www.denverpost.com/evidence/ci_6446990
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- Mislabeled rape kits could doom cases
- http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770607001&theme=SHERIFFAUDIT


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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 4:30pm

Untested Rape Kits Sit in Cold Storage

By http://www.alternet.org/authors/10527/ - Amy Goodwin , http://www.msmagazine.com/ - Ms. Magazine . Posted http://www.alternet.org/ts/archives/?date%5bF%5d=03&date%5bY%5d=2009&date%5bd%5d=27&act=Go/ - March 27, 2009 .


With huge backlogs of evidence untested, rapists who could have been caught remain free.
 
Three new rape victims arrive each day at the Rape Crisis Treatment Center in Santa Monica, Calif., where, besides being given comfort and medical care, victims are offered a forensic examination that could help identify and prosecute their attackers. Seeing the pain of the victims is hard enough, but for the center's director, Gail Abarbanel, one of the worst parts of her job is wondering whether rapes could have been prevented had the evidence so painstakingly collected ever been tested.

All over the country, rape kits are sitting untested in refrigerated storage facilities. A report currently being compiled by Human Rights Watch (HRW) puts the number at over 400,000, and the backlog is particularly pressing in large urban centers like Los Angeles. For Abarbanel, it represents a profound betrayal. "When such an incredible tool as a forensic database is available to us, it is unforgivable not to make use of it," she says. "For every kit that is not tested, the possibility of identifying, apprehending, trying and prosecuting a violent offender is lost."

http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/133482/untested_rape_kits_sit_in_cold_storage/ - http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/133482/untested_rape_kits_sit_in_cold_storage/


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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 4:43pm
Is Rape Serious?
  • by  http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/nicholasdkristof/index.html?inline=nyt-per - NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: April 29, 2009

When a woman reports a rape, her body is a crime scene. She is typically asked to undress over a large sheet of white paper to collect hairs or fibers, and then her body is examined with an ultraviolet light, photographed and thoroughly swabbed for the rapist�s DNA.

It�s a grueling and invasive process that can last four to six hours and produces a �rape kit� � which, it turns out, often sits around for months or years, unopened and untested.

Stunningly often, the rape kit isn�t tested at all because it�s not deemed a priority. If it is tested, this happens at such a lackadaisical pace that it may be a year or more before there are results (if expedited, results are technically possible in a week).

So while we have breakthrough DNA technologies to find culprits and exculpate innocent suspects, we aren�t using them properly � and those who work in this field believe the reason is an underlying doubt about the seriousness of some rape cases. In short, this isn�t justice; it�s indifference.

Solomon Moore, a colleague of mine at The Times, http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/25/us/25dna.html - last year wrote about a 43-year-old legal secretary who was raped repeatedly in her home in Los Angeles as her son slept in another room. The attacker forced the woman to clean herself in an attempt to destroy the evidence.

Tim Marcia, the detective on the case, thought this meant that the perpetrator was a habitual offender who would strike again. Mr. Marcia rushed the rape kit to the crime lab but was told to expect a delay of more than one year.

So Mr. Marcia personally drove the kit 350 miles to deliver it to the state lab in Sacramento. Even there, the backlog resulted in a four-month delay � but then it produced a �cold hit,� a match in a database of the DNA of previous offenders.

Yet in the months while the rape kit sat on a shelf, the suspect had allegedly struck twice more. Police said he broke into the homes of a pregnant woman and a 17-year-old girl, sexually assaulting each of them.

�The criminal justice system is still ill equipped to deal with rape and not that good at moving rape cases forward,� notes Sarah Tofte, who just wrote http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2009/03/31/testing-justice-0 - a devastating report for Human Rights Watch about the rape-kit backlog. The report found that in Los Angeles County, there were at last count 12,669 rape kits sitting in police storage facilities. More than 450 of these kits had sat around for more than 10 years, and in many cases, the statute of limitations had expired.

There are no good national figures, and one measure of the indifference is that no one even bothers to count the number of rape kits sitting around untested.

Why don�t police departments treat rape kits with urgency? One reason is probably expense � each kit can cost up to $1,500 to test � but there also seems to be a broad distaste for rape cases as murky, ambiguous and difficult to prosecute, particularly when they involve (as they often do) alcohol or acquaintance rape.

�They talk about the victims� credibility in a way that they don�t talk about the credibility of victims of other crimes,� Ms. Tofte said.

Charlie Beck, a deputy police chief of Los Angeles, said that there was no excuse for the failure to test rape kits, but he noted that integrating a new technology into police work is complex and involves a learning curve. Since Human Rights Watch began its investigation, he said, the department had resolved to test rape kits routinely � and as a result, cold hits have doubled.

While the backlog and desultory handling of rape kits are nationwide problems, there is one shining exception: New York City has made a concerted effort over the last decade to test every kit that comes in. The result has been at least 2,000 cold hits in rape cases, and the arrest rate for reported cases of rape in New York City rose from 40 percent to 70 percent, according to Human Rights Watch.

Some Americans used to argue that it was impossible to rape an unwilling woman. Few people say that today, or say publicly that a woman �asked for it� if she wore a short skirt. But the refusal to test rape kits seems a throwback to the same antediluvian skepticism about rape as a traumatic crime.

�If you�ve got stacks of physical evidence of a crime, and you�re not doing everything you can with the evidence, then you must be making a decision that this isn�t a very serious crime,� notes Polly Poskin, executive director of http://www.icasa.org/home.aspx?PageID=500 - the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault .

It�s what we might expect in Afghanistan, not in the United States.

Actually it is exactly what we expect in this country and this legal system which still sees women as less than men and the crimes committed against women as less serious than those against men. You can claim that there is justice for women in our civilized western secular environment, but it is a lie. One of the most celebrated "Christian" political figures last year, Sarah Palin, had women paying for their rape kits in Alaska. Yes, if you were a raped woman you had to pay for the rape kit, but if your home was burgled then the state picked up the tab.   
 
There is no equality here. Rape victims are not treated to greater justice here than anywhere else. There is an illusion, but as you can read for yourself, 400,000 rape kits have been sitting untested in warehouses for years. 400,000.  Think about that next time you are condemning other cultures for not treating women the way we do. PUHLEEEEEEEEZE!!!


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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 5:07pm

"Although the Law demanded stoning as punishment for the woman caught in adultery Jesus did not demand that this be carried out instead he said to her accusers " Let you who is without sin throw the first stone".  I am wondering what would Mohammad have done in this situation?"

Jesus did not demand the punishment not because she was not guilty or deserving of punishment, but rather because those who accused her were just as, if not more guilty. It wasn't mercy, it was a lesson to the pharisees and hypocrits.

 
..."The claim that rape victims require four witnesses to seek justice for their case is untrue and a false lie propagated by those who either do not have any knowledge in Islamic law or want to �prove� a so-called weakness in the hadd laws. Circumstantial evidence is sufficient and the judge can invoke his judgment based upon takzir (his own discretion).

An event concerning rape had in fact led towards the Prophet Muhammad (P) punishing a rapist without demanding or even hinting for four witnesses:

�Narrated Wa�il ibn Hujr: �When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (P) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered [raped] her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That [man] did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.

She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (P).

When he [the Prophet] was about to pass sentence, the man who [actually] had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.

He [the Prophet] said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words [Abu Dawud said: "meaning the man who was seized"], and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: �Stone him to death.� http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#footnote_3_387 - 4

It should also be noted that it was related by Ibn Abi Shaybah through T�riq b. Shahab that a woman accused with adultery was taken to Caliph `Umar. The woman pleaded that she was asleep and woke up to find the man over her. `Umar released the woman. http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#footnote_4_387 - 5

Based on the above sayings of the Prophet (P) and the events associated with it, the jurist Ibn Qudamah had stated as follows in his book al-Mughn�:

�If a woman becomes pregnant without having a husband or a master, she may not be punished and, in stead, she should be asked about it, if she claimed that she was coerced into it or that she committed adultery under dubious circumstances, or if she simply does not confess adultery then she will not be punished. This is the saying of Abu Han�fah and al-Sh�fi`�, because she may be pregnant as a result of a forceful intercourse or dubious circumstances. Punishment will be abandoned in case suspicion exists. It is well known that a woman could become pregnant without committing the real intercourse. The woman may become pregnant if sperm is manually inserted into her vagina. This would explain how a virgin becomes pregnant.�

We can now see that a testimony of the raped woman suffices in exonerating her from adultery and that Islam recognises the crime of rape and that a raped woman will not be punished for such a crime that was inflicted upon her. .....

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/ - http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/


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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt



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