Pope’s speech stirs Muslim anger

Hanan wrote: "These protesters look ridiculous"

psss, I'll let you in on a secrete, it's the muslims who are protesting AGAIN because they don't like what someone SAID. Really for muslims living in some of the most harsh conditions (heat, war, etc) you seem to have some thin skin. 

Hanan wrote: seems like the Pope had never read the Old Testament, especially the book of Joshua and Samuel that order the killing of Women, children and even Babies!!! Unlike the Holy Koran, the Bible has been changed over time to fit the preacher, instead of the pracher changing to fit the Bible. I have often wondered how that can be.

Hello to all of you. I am new in this forum. I believe it is an interesting one since different ideas can be exchanged from the Muslim and the Christian sides.

I live in Spain and I was baptized as a Christian Catholic, like most people in Spain.

In connection to the quote above and to the words by Ratzinger, I would like to say:

1. That the Bible has been changed along time is true and false: the Catholic Church has had lots of faults (let me call it faults), most linked to its intolerance and close-mindedness. We could mention, among others, the Inquisition.

Although, the Catholic Church has always had members that were near the people and know about life changes in time. Then, the Bible explains things in a clearer way that is more updated to our days. You may read verses and chapters and then an example applied to life today. This can be seen in Bibles for children today mainly. They are adapted to our days but the background ideas are the same (and not very different from those promoted by Islam: fairness, love, peace, etc.

2. Ratzinger has used the words from an old Emperor to show their ideas, hiding himself after a historic character. He has acted cowardly and this is worse if we remember he represents the Christian people in the world. Although, one thing should be clear: in the western countries where Christians are majority, religion is not the center of the individual's life. For many people it is something important to which they dedicate a part of their days. But there are other "values" that have their importance too and if they are well used (important!), life becomes much better.

This "values" have developed independently from religion, like some others, because in the western countries religion is not as important and decisive in life.

These values are played and enjoyed properly by most people in our countries. And a part of the people dont use them in a good way.
One of the values I am talking about is the freedom of press and free speech. This is an individual right and freedom that one can use well or badly. But it is an individual right.

Ratzinger chose that quote because he wanted problems, no doubt. He has been really imprudent.

Then, as citizens in western countries are not so closely connected to religion as Muslims are, we Christians may choose to be in favor or against his words. I may be a Christian believer and not be in favor of his words.

Anyway, and regretting his badly intentioned words on what Islam has given to the world, are not these words be based on the Muslim rule to expand Faith by sword and fight to convert the infidel?

3. In connection the the "values" I referred to above, I would add that most of them are good ones in themselves, mainly if they are well used. The progress of our Christian civilization is based on an important amount of personal freedom mixed with respect for the others' freedom and rights that-if well used, I insist-makes life good to be lived. Of course, as another participant in the forum expressed, our civilization is stained with things like pornography, and other badly-used liberties that really make people less free and become vices. But, in change, we have free speech and can express our ideas and opinions about absolutely everything.

And these things are rejected and considered sins by the Catholic Church, that, by the way do not permit gay marriage (they are celebrated in City Halls, they are not catholic marriages, just civil ones).

But what about the good things in our civilization? There are numerous Charity organizations, both men and women are considered equal and with the same rights since both are human beings. Our life and economy here isnt based-as someone in the forum meant-on vice and sin; everyone works to give the best they can to their family and make life reasonably good. And, of course, there is a small part of the population that takes sick advantage of the liberties. But perhaps this is the price to pay.

In order to defend the people of my civilization, I would just like to add that we are open and try to understand the others' bad situation and most people here are against crimes like those committed by Bush and allies.

But, does it make sense to make innocent citizens pay for their rulers's decisions (9/11 US, 3/11 Madrid...) as if people in Christian countries backed the suffering of the Muslims? Even more after thousands of peoples had previously demonstrated against the rulers' decision showing the public opinion. This creates a bigger separation between the peoples of our civilizations.

We also dont understand why after Ratzinger's words there are such things like a nun who has been assassinated while working for the poor, and Christian churches burned down..while for example in Spain after the massacre of Madrid nobody killed Muslim people or attacked Mosques in the country. I mean, we are aware there are good muslims and bad muslims; but for muslims, we are all in the same side (as our rulers).

Perhaps the difference is so big between Muslims and Christians, and not just because of religion but probably because here and there we are taught different values and different ways to see things. And these two ways are not close to each other precisely. In my civilization, reasoning is preeminent in life (so, it is really harder to be a faithful believer) whereas in Islam areas Faith is preeminent.

Thanks for your time.

Theotherside.

I find the behavior of the Muslim community both, highly entertaining and supremely childish with regard to your ability to deal with political issues. Time and time again, the world witnesses protests, outrage and mindless violence from the Islamic community at the slightest suggestion that Islam be flawed. The outrage generated in the Muslim community over Pope Benedict's recent speech is no different. Having actually read the Pope's speech, the hollowness and transparency of the Muslim community's arguments become suddenly obvious.

The following is a link to his speech, translated from German: http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=94748. Please do read through it for a change, as any other educated human being would, before blurting out your opinions.

Now, as a community of cool headed and reasonably competent human beings, lets proceed to analyzing this speech. What becomes immediately evident is that the Pope nowhere supports or endorses the view of the Byzantine emperor. He merely includes the emperor's commentary on Islam to highlight that religion should be spread through reason and example, not violence. Further, the quote "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached" was not uttered by Pope Benedict himself (as is wrongly being considered) but instead is the words of the Byzantine emperor. Also, his inclusion of the quote is not entirely inappropriate. The quote highlights and discusses the concept of Jihad, a very 21st century terror that we as the global community are struggling with at present. Finally, people have made the mistake of assuming that the Pope's entire speech revolves around Jihad and Islam. Readers with even an inkling of cognitive ability will be quick to note that the Pope discusses the situation of Islam in a short, concise series of quotes, and then moves on to other issues that concern the Christian faith. Then again, those very same people would have actually grasped what Pope Benedict really had to say.

Simply put, little knowledge is dangerous. So here is a lesson to remember. Next time your  going to say something, please make sure you have your facts right. Supporting your arguments � what a truly novel idea.  

Yedkar