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Pope’s speech stirs Muslim anger

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peacemaker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peacemaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by runner runner wrote:

Originally posted by peacemaker peacemaker wrote:

Originally posted by runner runner wrote:

Perhaps this is a good time to return to the actual events which elicited all of this bruhaha.  While I can't say I agree with everything that this commentator says, it is a stunningly accurate and thoughtful exposition.  Everyone please read the whole article before proceeding with more vituperation.  Salaam.

 In Defense of Pope Benedict
The Catholic Church is an enemy of the War Party
by Justin Raimondo

What is an erudite and perhaps overly scholarly pope to do in the face of a news media that insists on cherry-picking his pronouncements � buried amidst references to obscure Byzantine emperors and abstruse theological constructs � and making of them blazing headlines?

There isn't much he can do, and perhaps this is for the best. Benedict XVI is blunter and more assertive than his predecessor, and if I were a practicing Catholic � which I am not � I would be glad of it. In an era dominated by relativism and political correctness, where all religions are supposedly equal and truth is a matter of opinion (usually someone else's), it is refreshing to see someone uphold what they believe and defend it against all comers.

Clearly, Benedict had no idea that, in returning to the University of Regensburg, where he once taught theology, and delivering a lecture with the supremely inoffensive title of "Faith, Reason, and the University � Memories and Reflections," he would be charged with launching the Tenth Crusade. Yet that is plainly happening.299...

Continued at:

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9709

You are again justifying that Pope made no mistake. And the more you justify, the more you will inflame Muslim passsion. In so many posts, it has clearly been described why Muslims think the way they think about this matter, yet you are adamant to make your point that he made no mistake. He made serious mistake, and only a sincere apology would help rebuild Muslim-Christian relations.

Next time, you post anything, read the warning in this section. Don't post something that would only inflame Muslim sentiments. You are at it again and again, and it is really sad.

Peace



Br. Peacemaker, I have not bandied about charges without foundation, nor have I refused to furnish evidence for the charges I have not made, nor of the name-calling that I didn't do. I am merely and meekly inviting you to reexamine your conclusions.  Do you find that "inflames Muslim sentiments"?  Is it not possible that a human Muslim or his/her sentiments are in error?

Did you read the article, or did you reject it before discovering what it actually said?

I always read first prior to responding. And also that I think twice before making any statement. But, as a human, I may make mistakes like any other human, and when that happens, I sincerely apologize, and avoid making the same mistake again, and that is the secret of my success by the grace of Allah.

I don't know what was in the heart of the Pope at the time he made the speech as only Allah knows that. Maybe, that is what he knew about Islam out of ignorance. But, once it has become clear that his speech affected 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet, he should have sincerely apologized, and that would have opened the door again for dialogue between Muslims and Christians. But, if he refuses to accept that he made a wrong speech, it would, undoubtedly confirm that he was fully aware what he was doing.

Can't he just say, " I sincerely apologize for that kind of speech and I don't agree with emperor's view quoted on Islam." It would have been the best time to show the world that here is true Christianity that promotes peace and tolerance, mercy and compassion. But, on one hand innocent people become victims, and on other, we are still discussing if something went wrong.

Making mistake is far less serious than not recognizing it. And I am really upset to see this negative trend between Muslim-Christian relations.

Peace 

 

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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runner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote runner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by peacemaker peacemaker wrote:

Originally posted by runner runner wrote:

Perhaps this is a good time to return to the actual events which elicited all of this bruhaha.  While I can't say I agree with everything that this commentator says, it is a stunningly accurate and thoughtful exposition.  Everyone please read the whole article before proceeding with more vituperation.  Salaam.

 In Defense of Pope Benedict
The Catholic Church is an enemy of the War Party
by Justin Raimondo

What is an erudite and perhaps overly scholarly pope to do in the face of a news media that insists on cherry-picking his pronouncements � buried amidst references to obscure Byzantine emperors and abstruse theological constructs � and making of them blazing headlines?

There isn't much he can do, and perhaps this is for the best. Benedict XVI is blunter and more assertive than his predecessor, and if I were a practicing Catholic � which I am not � I would be glad of it. In an era dominated by relativism and political correctness, where all religions are supposedly equal and truth is a matter of opinion (usually someone else's), it is refreshing to see someone uphold what they believe and defend it against all comers.

Clearly, Benedict had no idea that, in returning to the University of Regensburg, where he once taught theology, and delivering a lecture with the supremely inoffensive title of "Faith, Reason, and the University � Memories and Reflections," he would be charged with launching the Tenth Crusade. Yet that is plainly happening.299...

Continued at:

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9709

You are again justifying that Pope made no mistake. And the more you justify, the more you will inflame Muslim passsion. In so many posts, it has clearly been described why Muslims think the way they think about this matter, yet you are adamant to make your point that he made no mistake. He made serious mistake, and only a sincere apology would help rebuild Muslim-Christian relations.

Next time, you post anything, read the warning in this section. Don't post something that would only inflame Muslim sentiments. You are at it again and again, and it is really sad.

Peace



Br. Peacemaker, I have not bandied about charges without foundation, nor have I refused to furnish evidence for the charges I have not made, nor of the name-calling that I didn't do. I am merely and meekly inviting you to reexamine your conclusions.  Do you find that "inflames Muslim sentiments"?  Is it not possible that a human Muslim or his/her sentiments are in error?

Did you read the article, or did you reject it before discovering what it actually said?


Edited by runner
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Hanan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 2:12pm

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Edited by Hanan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote raymond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by Hanan Hanan wrote:

 

However I do hate Religions, Muslim or christian or whatever

Hate? Am I correct in the assumption that you are an extremist? I do not hate, but I  dislike and disagree. One of my co-workers is a TRUE Christian woman and she makes all of you so-called Christians look like heathens. She hardly ever talks religion with me, instead she actually LIVES her faith. I could never dislike her or her religion, much less HATE.

I hate the establishments not the people. you dont have to be religious to have morals..........and whats with the "so called christians" ,,,,,,,,, are you blind, i'm not a christian. I dont belong to any gang.

?anyone who disagrees with you as a "muslim hater"?

How simple you are while trying to be sophisticated. Your anti-Muslim attitude gushes out from between the lines you write.

no your the one simplifying it by calling me a Muslim hater. Your posts are all anti-christian so anyone who disagrees with you MUST be a christian

Alot of Muslims seem to react violently to criticism which i cannot justify but you seem to be able too.

How many Muslims do you know personally, and have they reacted violently towards you? If they have done so, why have you not told us about it? Could you please refer me to specific passages of my postings in which I justified violent reactions to criticism of Muslims?

Luckily for me, through school and now work, I know plenty of Muslims alot of whom are friends. Although not as much as you have i'd presume, and they all have this debate with me, sometimes heated but most of them can see where I'm coming from and are embarressed by the over-reactions and violent reactions to things like the cartoons and no the Stupid Popes speech. They can see that its not worth killing people over

well my news reported that the pope apologized. If he didnt then I got the wrong info and apologise and if he did then you should apologise to me.. either way though it doesnt excuse the reactions of violence, nothing does.........and that nuns MURDER was the biggest crime in this pathetic story. How good of you to admit it.

He apologized, today? I don�t understand why I should apologize to you. Could you be more specific? What do you mean I �admitted?that the killing of the Nun was a crime? Do you really believe that I would white-wash a crime just because it was done by misguided Muslims?

I apologised to you if I was wrong and thought if you were then you'd do the same but you dont have to and you did white-wash the murder by barely mentioning it. All your angry about is what a old man in fancy dress said (the pope that is).

I am not an anti-Muslim poster who white-washes and makes excuses for everything atrocity committed by Christians. If it had been you instead of the Nun I would still call it a crime.

Okay Firstly, no your not Anti-Muslim as your Anti-everything but Muslim and especially Anti-Christian

Secondly, I never made any excuse for atrocitys made by Christians INFACT I openly condemn them ALL OF THEM but you keep ignoring that because it suits you to pretend that I haven't condemned them.

Thirdly, It could very well of being me instead of the nun because of the Violent reaction my opinions could bring and thats a terrible thing when people cant accept criticism

 

Finally a Question to you. Do you think that some of the reactions (violence, riots, burning etc) to the Cartoons and The Popes speech have been way over the top or do you believe they are justified and if you believe they were over the top then could you see how a nuetral, like me, might find the reactions revolting???????

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ops154 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ops154 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 11:24am
Originally posted by Hanan Hanan wrote:

Leii: If you are going to quote me, at least get it right! I have not mentioned Nazis on this forum and neither would I ever do so

I did not quote you. My message was to your friend ops154, or as I call him: �Oops (he did it again)� Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 I'm stilling laughing at the oops I did it again statement. Oh my you are a clever one but really tell me where I was angry with you, you and whisper are the two who keep me coming back. As long as you are so naive and biased I will be back to correct you.

Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 9:33am

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Edited by Hanan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 9:08am
Originally posted by Hanan Hanan wrote:

Leii: If you are going to quote me, at least get it right! I have not mentioned Nazis on this forum and neither would I ever do so

I did not quote you. My message was to your friend ops154, or as I call him: �Oops (he did it again)� Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Apologies Hanan - I did not realise you meant someone else!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2006 at 8:56am

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