Satan’s Great Manipulation of Christians

Dear Aquinian,

You posted this:

"This connection is not ever-present; therefore, the Church is not infallible at all times."

No, the Church is most certainly not infallible at all times.  I think you know I am referring to the times when the Holy Father is speaking ex cathedra.  When he is speaking ex cathedra he is preserved from error when he solemnly promulgates, or declares, to the Church a decision on faith or morals.

This was what David had posted earlier regarding the dogma issued by Pope Paul VI on the subject of Lumen Gentium, which he proclaimed in November of 1964. 

This is one paragraph which Pope Paul stated regarding Mulims in this dogma:  But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.

You stated that you did not always follow or believe these "decrees".  This is a Church dogma, and the pope was speaking ex cathedra at the time.....therefore, for you to choose not to follow it is heresy.

I believe you trying to be a good Catholic.  But I have listened to many popes state the verse in Scripture where Jesus said "many sheep I have who are not of this fold"....and I know He meant this for people who worship in another faith than ours. 

You don't have to answer this, I'm just curious, but do you belong to one of several "organizations" out there now, such as Call to Action, Voice of the Faithful, CORPUS, etc.?  Or, are you a laicized priest?

Peace with you always!

Patty wrote: Dear Aquinian, You posted this: "This connection is not ever-present; therefore, the Church is not infallible at all times." No, the Church is most certainly not infallible at all times.  I think you know I am referring to the times when the Holy Father is speaking ex cathedra.  When he is speaking ex cathedra he is preserved from error when he solemnly promulgates, or declares, to the Church a decision on faith or morals. This was what David had posted earlier regarding the dogma issued by Pope Paul VI on the subject of Lumen Gentium, which he proclaimed in November of 1964.  This is one paragraph which Pope Paul stated regarding Mulims in this dogma:  But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day. You stated that you did not always follow or believe these "decrees".  This is a Church dogma, and the pope was speaking ex cathedra at the time.....therefore, for you to choose not to follow it is heresy. I believe you trying to be a good Catholic.  But I have listened to many popes state the verse in Scripture where Jesus said "many sheep I have who are not of this fold"....and I know He meant this for people who worship in another faith than ours.  You don't have to answer this, I'm just curious, but do you belong to one of several "organizations" out there now, such as Call to Action, Voice of the Faithful, CORPUS, etc.?  Or, are you a laicized priest? Peace with you always!

How do we know when the Pope is infallible and fallible?  Should we take his word for it?

To address a more pressing point, could the pope directly contradict sacred scripture and still be infallible in his claims?  Could the Pope say that those who do not eat of the body and drink of the blood can receive eternal life when Christ clearly opposes this statement with his own words?  The purpose of the church is solely to propagate the Word.  That is all the apostles did - they did not make new claims about the Virgin Mary or the equality of other faiths to the Christian faith.  Call me a heretic, but I fail to suffer the Church's "infallibility" in the face of Christ's words in scripture. 

Just as the Vatican pressed that the earth was flat in the face of scientific reasoning that proved opposite, the Vatican presses this idea that the God of Islam is the same as that of Christianity when it is simply not true.  I don't care whether the Pope has claimed it is - it is not, based on the words of Christ himself as I have argued.

I would prefer to argue about the actual words of Christ rather than the church's infallibility.  Jesus establishes the church (upon this rock I will build my church) but never mentions the infallible teachings of Peter.  The Pope is a sinner like all of us and, though he spends his life in holy contemplation of God, I do not believe that he has any greater connection to God's ear than any other Christian.  Seeing as how the first pope was Peter, the greatest denier of Christ, I fail to see any tradition of infallibility within the Holy See.  Christ chose the least of his faithful apostles to begin the church.  Now the Pope has become the greatest of the the faithful in the church, with expensive robes and extravagant living quarters.

I love the Pope.  I think he should be a leader for all Catholics and offer to them insights gained through a thorough examination of sacred scripture.  He should make clear the doctrines of the church based solely on scripture and tradition.  This idea that we can learn new things about Christ or Mary by listening to the pope's infallible communications with the Holy Spirit is hierarchical and certainly unintended by Jesus Christ.

The Church does not encourage enough understanding of the Word.  Unfortunately, that's where all understanding of Christ begins.

Brother Israfil,

Thanks for the comment. Couldn't write more on that as it was late in the night but I will put forward some more thought on the Laws since the days of yore.

Best Regards & Salaam Aalikum

BMZ

amlhabibi2000 wrote:   Satan is just an excuse people use for their bad behavior, this creation does not exist except for in the imaginations. People use Satan all the time as their excuse for acting badlly when in truth it is their lack of good communication skills, anger management skills, parenting skills, relationship skills and their lack of understanding how to cope with stress and frustrations that is the real problem. There is not a magical being tempting anyone it is our own imaginations and ignorance of how to deal with life and the world. Sure we can act like the mythical creature but there is not a being creating the crisis in the world it is ourselves.

I think satan just needs counseling, consultation, and education.