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The duties of Men (My personal view)

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foody View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote foody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2006 at 11:07pm
I just forget to point out one more thing, what about your children not having a daddy. I never did have one, many questions about my gender identity was not answered well...and remain certain confusions. would you want your children to be fatherless too? I applaud you for protecting the community and risking your life for others but shouldn't there be certain sacrifices you have to make for your family as well...as in you been alive for your children's graduation and not having your wife everyday praying that you come home alive. Many women I hear in the radio show hosts who knew what they were getting themselves into when they married police officer's but it still doesn't change the fact they live a stressful life and counting the minutes that their husbands come back home alive.  Perhaps you should think of it in ALL angles before getting married. My thought on the matter perhaps I am irrational.
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2006 at 8:40pm

As' Salaamu Alaikum,

I believe Arabian Knight is on to something. first off let me define that independence is not something that is defined by financial gain, but by the responsibility of the individual who is NOT dependent on another person. Now in the case with marriage I don't mind my wife being dependent on me for emotional support. i don't mind her staying home. however my point is, is that part of getting married and doing marriage planning starts with communication. My point is that any woman I will be involved with for the rest of my life must first understand me as a person.

she must also understand my duties as a Peace Officer and must respect the fact that I am risking my life. I know some women may say that women may understan dthat but to th ralistic standpoint some women don't. I know Muslim women are bent on acting on thir 'rights' I'm acting on reality. the reality is that in any household in California there are some struggle. Even if you financially plan your situation I myself am not at any point in planning and putting money aside for my wife to stay home.

First off that shouldn't even be in the mind of a woman. Her first goal is to marry me and to love and cherish me as I will her. i know many of you say you understand this and that but none of you have responded in a practical manner. Unless you live in this environment and understand the struggles some people go through you cannot really say you understand although I appreciate the advice. What if my wife dies? I would do exactly the same thing I would expect my wife do in the evnt of my absence. Take care of herself and move on.

Again, not all muslim women are born independent. Some of the attitudes are cultural and sometimes women are not breed to be sovereign entities of men I hope you all know that.

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Hayfa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2006 at 10:42am

According to The Quran (from what I understand) a woman is not required to earn money to help support the household.

From my take on the discussion there is the �ideal� and the practical realities of life. None of us know what the future holds for each of us. One of us could die tomorrow. How many people are married and face that uncertain reality of what will happen to the family if one spouse dies, gets a terrible illness or be comes incapacitated for some reason.

The reality for MANY women throughout the world is that they are very dependent upon others. How many women stay with their abusive spouse for economic reasons? Happens all the time. In addition to education people need practical job skills. What happened here in west is women who are married, stayed at home, took care of kids. Husband up and left them in their mid-life crisis. These women were in BIG trouble. They suddenly found themselves without either education, job experience or both. Their options were extremely limited. They often end up in poverty. That is why the big push for women to be more economically capable of taking care of themselves. Yes working at home and taking care of your family is wonderful and important. The reality is that the rest of the world does not see it that way. Of course it is not right. But that is the way it is.

I remember reading this heart-wrenching story of this woman, stay at home woman. She is from Afganistan living as a refugee in Pakistan. Her husband lost his legs in the war. She had no means to support her family.  What must that sense of helplessness be like?

I think that wanting your wife to be able to be better take care of herself in a case of emergency is a great thing.  This is one way to, in the long run, help your wife. Is to not allow her to be stuck. Yes having a stockpile of money is a great thing and not always possible. Education and job skills are the best security in this day and age. Unless you are extremely wealthy of course�

Wanting to live a decent comfortable life is not a bad thing. Each family must determine what that means to them. It may then require that you hold off having kids for a bit. Or maybe not having any kids (if both agree). You should definitely find someone who shares the same goals you do. Many women in states would like to find someone who wants their spouse to work. You just need to find a strong woman. Not everyone could handle being the wife of a police officer. Others do fine.

Just find a good woman that meets your needs and you meet hers.
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Jenni View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jenni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2006 at 11:08am
Hayfa, I agree with you. If men are only there to provide economically then I guess we can just leave them if they can't earn any more.. But for me I would love my husband even if he were disabled and would try to support our family. Because our relationship is based on love and friendship not rigidity and tradition that many people base the marraige on. The same way the men don't want the women to work, they don't want to help her at home with the kids. No thanks, we make up our own rules for our marraige, what makes us BOTH happy.
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2006 at 11:16am

Finding a wife/husband that shares your dreams and wishes for the family is very important Israfil.  But, you shouldn't look down on a woman because she wants to be at home with her children. 

I would like to make an example of my mother.  She chose to be a stay at home mother.  She spent a good portion of her day playing with us as kids, reading to us, teaching us our letters and numbers. (by Us, I mean my sister and I)  We did not have cable, only 3 stations that came in on the rabbit ears.  I remember doing crafts with her and helping her around the house before my father came home.  Picking up our toys and such. 

When my brother came along, there were many changes.  My father bought a bigger house, we had more chores.  But, he could still afford to make all the payments himself.  He was Union and had great insurance.  Then he fell while working on the Pittsburgh Children's Hospital.  His injury robbed the family of his very good income.  He went on disability for about 18 months.  During this time, My mother stepped out of the house and took over the duty of the employed.  My father did what he could around the house, but he never played the learning games with my brother that had been done for my sister and I.  He helped potty train my brother and I took over the heavy chores of cutting grass and carting laundry up and down the stairs.  The family worked together as a unit. 

When my father returned to work for the insurance company he works for, there was a lot of debt.  My mother and father realized they would not be able to pay for my education without her working.  So, she went to school and became a nurse.  This too required alot of sacrifice, but my father worked long hours, so the majority of the housework fell to us children.

Now, the point of the story.  I graduated 7th in my high school class, my sister was in the top 20 of hers.  My brother almost did not graduate.  He could barely read an adult novel at age 15, where my sister and I were reading adult books by age 10.  My sister and I attended college.  My brother did not and will not.  My sister and I hold professional jobs.  My brother is working in a factory.  My sister and I are deeply spiritual people.  My brother hasn't seen the inside of a church (save weddings and funerals) in 10 years. 

Why????  I fully and wholeheartedly believe its because Cristy and I had a mother, at home with us during those crucial years and Tim did not.  My mother did what was necessary for the family, when it was needed she left the home and entered the work place, however, there was one member of the family that suffered.  My baby brother.  Had no accident happened with my father, no debt would have mounted.  All would have been fine.  We could not have foreseen the events of that fall in 1989.  But, that three year old on the floor was not part of the decision making process and his voice was never heard.

You want your wife to work.  That's good, what it seems is you want her to be able to step up to the plate like my mother did.  You'll be working long hours like my father.  You won't be able to do what my mother did for us.  So, I want you to listen in your heart to the voice of the 3 year old on the floor in 1989.  Or more likely the 20 year old young man who's lost, in 2006.  Think about your own sons and wonder if its better to have a wife willing to work but doesn't, or a wife who's required to work but doesn't need to do it.

Happiness isn't a 5 bedroom house in the burbs, two new cars and a boat. 

Happiness is spending Saturday at the Zoo with your dad, mom and siblings.  Or having a picnic on Sunday on the shore of a lake.  Or reading a scary book by candle light when the power goes out.  Or the first time your mother goes out and leaves all the kids alone with father, they conspire to make her laugh and when she walks through the door, father is tied to the chair and the children are dancing around him like little indians. 

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2006 at 12:51pm

Here is the problem that reoccurs here with statements like:

>>>>Finding a wife/husband that shares your dreams and wishes for the family is very important Israfil.  But, you shouldn't look down on a woman because she wants to be at home with her children.<<<<<

or

>>>>Happiness isn't a 5 bedroom house in the burbs, two new cars and a boat. <<<<

Most of what you guys wrote are good but I think a lot of you before even reading my comments have a pre-conceived notion on what I believe. First before responding to me please read entirely what I'm saying! The reason I'm saying this is because people keep responding to me in the matter that all I care about is money and that is not the case. True I want a woman to work and support the family because I believe relationships are 50/50 sorry for thinking like a practical American! I apologize for not being conservative but frankly any professional woman would say that there is nothing wrong with a 50/50 relationship. There are plenty of individuals here in California that work and take care of their children so what you guys are saying are not universal truths but subjective experiences which are equally fine.

First off Angela, I never onced said in any statement here that I said "I looked down on a woman working" again read my statements before you falsely put words in my mouth. Guys one thing about me is that I find it annoying that yoiu over look what I say then assume how I think. As Sister Herjihad correctly statements even if I met a woman who was broke if she is a decent human with a good head on her shoulders and had some ambition in life I would marry her. I'm merely commenting partially on the economical standpoint. Women should stand on their own. The world today women aren't dependent on men comments supporting this are in relation to women overseas not in the States.

There are more women owning their own fortune 500 companies. There are women her ein law enforcement there are women in the work force. At least in partial a woman who works would understand what I'm going through at work rather a stay at home mom who only knows household duties and kids. That is my opinion. Again nothing wrong with stay at home moms but if I plan to marry I want a woman who can at least PARTIALLY contribute. So please ladies have respect for me and read my entire statement without assuming what I believe.

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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2006 at 1:35pm

50/50 is a matter of opinion.  Yes, there are plenty of women who work and raise families....but look at the family unit.  No family meals, no time together.  Kids are glued to the TV, Xbox, or computer.  Kids are getting into drugs, having premarital sex and gangs.  With both parents out of the house for a 8 hour work days plus commuting time, this leaves most kids at daycare, babysitters and/or unattended several hours in a day.

The 50/50 relationship in America is actually hurting families.  Its not about traditional vs modern or religious vs reality.  The reality is that our children are suffering and its because they do not have the personal attention they require to blossom. 

I spent a large portion of my life as a "feminist", I am still very much a feminist when it comes to certain things.  I am in no way in favor of the sort of life that is forced on women in many countries.  I think you are also guilty of what your accusing us of doing.  You aren't seeing what we are saying. 

Many of us are speaking from experience Israfil.  I know you are young and there is much in your life you are looking forward to being able to do.  I just want you to try very hard to look at both sides of the issue and don't reject the "traditional" family set up because you're a modern american.

I know you are someone who trusts experts.  Perhaps you should do some research on child development in both types of households?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2006 at 2:08pm

Assalamu Alaikum:

50/50 relationship? Now who's not being realistic? Even when women work outside the home, they are still primarily responsible for taking care of the home and the children. I don't know anyone in a relationship where both spouses work and the man does 50% of the housework and child rearing.

Once again, the point here is that Islamically the woman is not required to work or to help with the financial support. You can choose to live however you want, and you can choose to marry a woman who wants to work, but that doesn't change the Word of Allah.

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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