i believe Quran and Bible

airmano wrote: Ah, and one anecdote about him is particularly telling: Hart organized a conference held in Baltimore in 2009 with the title, Preserving Western Civilization. It was billed as addressing the need to defend "America's Judeo-Christian heritage and European identity" from immigrants, Muslims(!), and African Americans.

Hart seems like a silver tongued racist to me. He states Muhammad is the most influential person in history, but when I compare and contrast just what the apostle Paul said, wrote and did not to mention Jesus; I would vote that Paul has been the most influential next to Christ. Don't get this wrong, no one can deny that Muhammad has been very influential in the World, but saying the most influential, doesn't ring true to me unless you narrow it down to certain places in the Middle East
This guy Hart wanted to make some money; so, he found a topic and statement that would put him in the venue he wanted to be in with Muslim whom he is making a great deal of his money from.

Edited by Saved - 13 December 2016 at 11:57am

asep48garut60 wrote: Saved wrote: asep48garut60 wrote: You said: �Who are you suppose to model?� My model is Muhammad, because he is the most suitable to be a model in the face of today's life and so on. Regards, Asep So, you'd have no problem marrying a child? Muhammad might be suitable for you and as your prophet, but I don't see how that makes him a suitable universal prophet for the world; since most of the world frowns on child marriage. Jesus didn't have this problem and many wanted him dead and they finally succeeded only to find out they won a battle but lost the war on deception Dear Saved, Maybe you should know in advance about the history of why Muhammad married with a child, after that, there will appear a conclusion. I idolized him because the main qualities he has, namely: Siddiq (Honestly), Amanah (trustful), fathanah (intelligent), and Tabligh (submit). If the 4 things above are described one by one, it'll be quite long. Regards, Asep

idolizing anyone other than God is idolatry which is a sin against Allah. I have responded to this but it didn't make past Mod approval I think.

ovibos wrote: 2Acts wrote: �The Quaran is clear it says the Bible is the Word of God. S. 19.30, S. 5:46, S. 57:27, S. 5:46. The verses above talk about the Gospel (or Injil), not the Christian Bible (from Genesis to Revelation).Which Gospel does Quran talk about? Are they the canonical gospels? No!I believe that the gospel that Quran mentions is the original gospel, maybe it's the Lost Gospel Q, or maybe it's the Hebrew Matthew which Jerome called it as "matthaei authenticum".FYI, according to ahadith from Bukhari, Waraqa ibn Naufal - the uncle of the Prophet's wife, did translate a gospel from hebrew to arabic.

Canonical Gospels ? Actually YES ! The four canon Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John were established canon Gospels before Mohamad was even born. Mohamad either knew this � so commands you to believe them. Or else he was confused and ignorant of the �People of the Book� and the Injil. Which one ?
You seem very certain as to what the lost "Q" Gospels says which is amusing considering Q is only a theory and even if it is a lost gospel which no one has ever seen - how can you be so certain ?

Edited by 2Acts - 20 December 2016 at 12:42pm

2Acts wrote: Ceo3 wrote: 2Acts wrote: Ceo3 wrote: Going back to about 700AD there is proof via discovered Quranic script that what we have today is exactly the same. Also non muslim historians prove that Muhammad SAW did speak the words. Now criticisms of Quran are from the mouth of Muhammad SAW up until when it was written down. There were 100s of companions who memorised the Quran and they come together to collate into book form. Some doubt this method, however today their are millions in the world who have memorised the Quran all 6000 plus verses in order, from 6 yrs old. You can take one from Malaysia, to Egypt to England to USA and they will all recite the same. No other book ever has been on such a large scale been commited to memory. In 1972 a large number of ancient Quranic manuscripts, dating from first century of Hijra were discovered in the Great Mosque of Sana�a (Yemen), which significantly differs from the present standard one. This challenges the orthodox Muslim belief that the Quran, as it has reached us today, is �the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God�. It means the Quran has been distorted, perverted, revised, modified and corrected, and textual alterations had taken place over the years purely by Human hands. Millions have memorised the Quran. Really !Which Quran ? The original one or the changed one ? Muslims willnever know because Uthman destroyed the originals ! Like a drowning man clutching on straws, your retort if not anything offered some amuzement. How have these manuscripts differed? Is it the grammatical content, writing style or is each word still the same as per 1400 years ago? Kindly check your facts. Millions have memorised 1 Quran, and one can only memorise from a teacher which links back to beginning of Islam. So we have 2 solid methods of having preserved the Quran. Can the followers of Bible and Torah make the same assertion? Surely you must concede Quran better chance of preservation than other books. Also Islam came when there were better writing instruments and the full light of history was shining. The truth hurts! You want proof? Ok.Many of the manuscripts showed the sign of palimpsests, i.e., versions very clearly written over even earlier washed off versions. Research suggests that the Sana�a manuscripts are not only variants to the present version of the Quran, but the Sana�a manuscripts themselves were variants of earlier version, re-written on the same paper. It means, Allah�s claim that original text is preserved in heaven on golden tablets (Q 56: 77�78; 85:21�22), which none can touch except angels is also a fairy-tale. The Arabic scholar Puin's other radical theory is that pre-Islamic sources have entered the Quran. The Arabic sholar Wansbrough�s concluded that the Quran evolved only gradually in the seventh and eighth centuries after a long period of oral transmissions. You say millions have memorised the Quran. What Quran ? You have no original. The Sanaa Quran is the oldest and it proves the Quran you are all memorising is not reliable. And actually the Bible is the most validated of all ancient writings. More ancient copies exist than any other ancient writing, for example the Roman history of Julius Caesar, and others. Plus these copies cover a huge and wide geographic area that prevents them from being gathered together and falsified.

In which language was the bible revealed? Or better still what language was it written down by Constantinople 300 yrs after Jesus AS? The Quran and there is no doubt about this was revealed in original Quranic Arabic, written down and still today same words (you need to have studied Arabic to understand significance of this) after about 10yrs of death of Rasullulah SAW. If you say versions washed off and rewritten, wouldnt you need previous version to ascertain difference?

And research by whom? You quote a theory, which is just that and 1 other, where the proof of authenticity by non muslim historians alone are countless. How many have memorised the bible word for word, even if as u say Quran not valid, you have to admit that a 6 yr old that can quote any verse in the Quran at will is amazing?

It was the Romans, who persecuted the christians beforehand, who compiled the bible not the original christians and before that unknown who was in charge. Qurans collation was always in hands of original muslims whose characters were par excellance.In the process the romans, included aspects of zeus and their pagan superstitions into the bible to suit their ideals. Did you know the first mention of trinity was only in the reign of Constantine, when he had to choose which of the different christian sects to support?