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TG12345 View Drop Down
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Points: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2016 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:

Here are seven translations of verse 13:12, if you have an issue with its understanding.
Sahih International: And to Allah prostrates whoever is within the heavens and the earth, willingly or by compulsion, and their shadows [as well] in the mornings and the afternoons.

Pickthall: And unto Allah falleth prostrate whosoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, as do their shadows in the morning and the evening hours.

Yusuf Ali: Whatever beings there are in the heavens and the earth do prostrate themselves to Allah (Acknowledging subjection),- with good-will or in spite of themselves: so do their shadows in the morning and evenings.

Shakir: And whoever is in the heavens and the earth makes obeisance to Allah only, willingly and unwillingly, and their shadows too at morn and eve.

Muhammad Sarwar: All in the heavens and the earth prostrate themselves before God, either of their own free will or by force, just as do their shadows in the mornings and evenings.

Mohsin Khan: And unto Allah (Alone) falls in prostration whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and so do their shadows in the mornings and in the afternoons.

Arberry: To God bow all who are in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, as do their shadows also in the mornings and the evenings.

Many thanks, AhmadJoiya. The verse does indeed seem to be saying that to God prostrates everyone who is in the heavens and earth, and that the shadow of everyone in the heaven and earth prostrates to God in the morning and evening.
I am curious how can this be when there are many animals who are never exposed to the sunlight or any other form of light, like for example troglobites.
http://geology.com/stories/13/troglobites/
Like all living things, they prostrate to God. But their shadows don�t, since they are not exposed to any form of light.
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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O, I see!! You must be joking if you think that this verse some how shows, that every thing must have shadows. Hats off to your logic and your intellect. Are you serious?
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TG12345 View Drop Down
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Points: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 February 2016 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:

O, I see!! You must be joking if you think that this verse some how shows, that every thing must have shadows. Hats off to your logic and your intellect. Are you serious?

The verse says that
A) Everything in existence prostrates to God
and
B) The shadows of everything in existence that prostrates to God, prostrate to Him in the morning and afternoon.


Tell me whether or not you would find the following sentence true:

And unto Allah falleth prostrate every observant Muslim man, as do their Pakistani wives.

Tell me whether or not this is a true statement, and make sure to explain why.

Shukran and take care.
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Points: 1647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2016 at 3:26am
Originally posted by TG12345 TG12345 wrote:

Tell me whether or not you would find the following sentence true:

And unto Allah falleth prostrate every observant Muslim man, as do their Pakistani wives.

Tell me whether or not this is a true statement, and make sure to explain why.
Could be true, but could also be false for a simple reason that not all wives of Muslims must be Muslim and also that not all Muslims would have necessarily Pakistani wives.
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TG12345 View Drop Down
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Points: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2016 at 4:19am
Originally posted by TG12345 TG12345 wrote:

Tell me whether or not you would find the following sentence true:

And unto Allah falleth prostrate every observant Muslim man, as do their Pakistani wives.

Tell me whether or not this is a true statement, and make sure to explain why.

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:

Could be true, but could also be false for a simple reason that not all wives of Muslims must be Muslim and also that not all Muslims would have necessarily Pakistani wives.

You did a great job in explaining why the verse is false, yet you also wrote "could be true". How could the statement above be true?

Edited by TG12345 - 01 March 2016 at 7:52pm
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Originally posted by TG12345 TG12345 wrote:

Originally posted by TG12345 TG12345 wrote:

Tell me whether or not you would find the following sentence true:

And unto Allah falleth prostrate every observant Muslim man, as do their Pakistani wives.

Tell me whether or not this is a true statement, and make sure to explain why.

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:

Could be true, but could also be false for a simple reason that not all wives of Muslims must be Muslim and also that not all Muslims would have necessarily Pakistani wives.

You did a great job in explaining why the verse is false, yet you also wrote "could be true". How could the statement above be true?
Your analogy is amusing. Instead of realizing an error in your logic, you are drawing conclusions from a wrong analogy. Very funny indeed!
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TG12345 View Drop Down
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Points: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2016 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by TG12345 TG12345 wrote:

Tell me whether or not you would find the following sentence true:

And unto Allah falleth prostrate every observant Muslim man, as do their Pakistani wives.

Tell me whether or not this is a true statement, and make sure to explain why.

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:

Could be true, but could also be false for a simple reason that not all wives of Muslims must be Muslim and also that not all Muslims would have necessarily Pakistani wives.

Originally posted by TG12345 TG12345 wrote:


You did a great job in explaining why the verse is false, yet you also wrote "could be true". How could the statement above be true?

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:


Your analogy is amusing. Instead of realizing an error in your logic, you are drawing conclusions from a wrong analogy. Very funny indeed!

What is the error in my logic?

And why are you refusing to answer my question.

For the statement:

And unto Allah falleth prostrate every observant Muslim man, as do their Pakistani wives.
You said it could be true, as well as it could be false given that not all Muslim men have believing wives and not all their wives are Pakistani.

How could the statement above be true?


I always answer your questions and rebuttals and the points you raise, why do you avoid mine?
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Points: 1647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2016 at 11:25am
I think yours relate to propositional fallacy which is kind of fallacies that involve inferences whose correctness is not guaranteed by the behavior of those logical connectives, and hence, which are not logically guaranteed to yield true conclusions. So essentially when you state The shadows of everything in existence that prostrates to God, prostrate to Him in the morning and afternoon.
You just can't infer from here that if there is no shadow, therefore it doesn't prostrate to God. This is same fallacy as If A then B wrongly implying if not A, then not B. Wiki gives an interesting example to understand it: If it is raining, then the grass is wet.
It is not raining.
Therefore, the grass is not wet.
So, my question is can you make the grass wet other than through rain? If yes, then fallacy in your argument is proved.

Edited by AhmadJoyia - 04 March 2016 at 11:28am
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