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Crucifixion of Jesus
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Originally posted by BMZSP BMZSP wrote:

Jesus did show a few miracles but he did not do those on his own and he was not showing miracles night and day.

He had no power to do that. It was God, who worked those miracles through him. It means the power of God worked the miracles.

Jesus IS NOT on record for making any of the following statements openly and publicly himself:

"I am the Son of God."
"I am God in flesh" or "I am God in person."
"I am God incarnate."
"I am the Father".
"I am God" or "I am God almighty" .
" I am the Messiah that you have waited for long."

To say that Jesus was sinless is ridiculous as it shows as if all the Prophets of God were sinful and only this man was sinless.

If he had said "I am God" or "I am the Father", he would either have lost his head or would have been stoned to pulp straight away.

That Jesus was the Son of God or God, is a post-Jesus fraud by the Church founded by pagans, long after he was gone.

Greetings BMZSP,

This raises for me the question...
just why do you think the Jews wanted Yshwe crucified?

asalaam,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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BMZSP View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:



Greetings BMZSP,This raises for me the question...just why do you think the Jews wanted Yshwe crucified?asalaam,Caringheart


Wassalaam, Caringheart

Jesus had challenged the authority of the hierarchy of the Sadducees and the Pharisees, had ridiculed and outsmarted them.

The Romans also took note of that and feared a revolution like the one under bar Kochba.

Both wanted him taken out. I believe it was then that God saved Jesus and delivered him to safety.



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BMZSP View Drop Down
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Originally posted by aikosmith aikosmith wrote:

Jesus made miracles as nobody before Him and in such measure and in such amount that it was impossible to write them all down.Muhammad not only made NO miracles. he said he is just a man a man who denied all Jesus said 600 years before he came.


I will do your post in short bites as Ia m allergic to long-winded posts.

Muhammad showed no miracles like Moses and Jesus.

Tell me what good were the miracles shown by Jesus, when he was not recognised and was not accepted by the very people to whom God had sent him?

God showed miracles through Moses, delivered the Hebrews all others and yet they rebelled against God and disobeyed God and Moses. Even their generations continued to disobey God. Right?

God had shown miracles to men many times before.

When Muhammad was sent to Arabs, it was time to reason and argue with man.

That reasoning was done through Qur'aan and within the life time of the Prophet, the pagans accepted One God Almighty and the prophet, without a single miracle shown.
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BMZSP View Drop Down
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Originally posted by aikosmith aikosmith wrote:

Jesus lived on the earth as a man. He was God who came to the earth to live as a man. That is why He never used any Divine attributes that He had but drew power from the Father. to show us that� we can do the same way and by the power of God we can live a holy life and make mirales.Jesus is God who came to live as a human. that is no wonder then that when you ascribe to Jesus' divinity all the verses showing His humanity - that you come up with wrong conclusions.and also you omitted all the verses Jesus clearly said "I am God"



The problem is that he never said that he was God who came down to earth. He is on record for saying that on his own he could do nothing. Right?

All false claims for his alleged divinity get busted and debunked by John 17:3, which clearly says:

"John 17:3New American Standard Bible (NASB)

This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

He wanted people to know only the true God, who had sent him.

So, God was the sender and Jesus was the one who was sent to Israel.

Jesus never said clearly or openly or publicly "I am God".

He would have been stoned to death straight away if he had said that or would have been beheaded.

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Originally posted by aikosmith aikosmith wrote:

.and if the Holy Sinless Jesus said "I am the Almighty" (Rev 1:8) , He said "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30), "who has seen Me has seen the Father. ", "I am the Way, the Life and the truth" (gospel of john) and in so so so many other verses He clearly directly and straightforwardly said "I am God" even the Father called Jesus God (Heb 1;8)so nobody can deny what Jesus said about Himself.



Revelation is irrelevant to me. It is a dejected man's dream.

By the way, Revelation 1:8 is talking about the LORD God, not Jesus.

"Revelation 1:8New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 �I am the Alpha and the Omega,� says the Lord God, �who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.�"

Jesus never introduced himself as 'the Lord God'.

"The Father and I are one" simply means both were on the same side.

Jesus did not say, "The Father and I are the one and the same person."

While Jesus was talking to Thomas and others, Philip got bored and asked him to show the Father. That was very silly and st**id of Philip to demand that. Jesus scolded him but never said, "Philip, I am the Father'.

Hebrews 1 is fraud and a forgery. The man who penned Hebrews wrote a few of his lines and copied and pasted from Psalms and other books.

There is not even a single word from Jesus in Hebrews at all.
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Originally posted by aikosmith aikosmith wrote:

   and how did Muhammad live? he married a child (pedophilia)...he had many wives (after Jesus taught on monogamous marriage) and polygamy is adultery, Muhammad killed hundreds of people (after Jesus taught to love even our enemies...and on and on...even Allah called Muhammad sinful (surah 48:2)nobody of a sound mind woudl ever trust a man like that - only after they were manipulated....only then...but Jesus was pure moral holy and sinless..so think who you follow and who you trust..because your whoel eternity depends on it...



The Torah never forbade polygamy and the Jews in Jesus' time had multiple wives. Before them the patriarchs had many wives, slave girls and concubines. Jesus confirmed himself that he was not there to change even an iota of the law. What did he know about the institution of marriage?

The so-called Son of David knew that David had many and Solomon had numerous.

I can say that God the Father and the Holy Spirit were also pedophiles, who overpowered a little innocent pre-pubescent girl and raped her.

It is a false accusation against Muhammad. He married Ayesha when she was about eighteen. The Christian polemicist takes a rotten hadith and attack. The Prophet had many wives already.

A pedophile does not stop at one child. Pedophilia is a Westerner's disease.

What does this verse from John 20:17 show?

"New American Standard Bible
Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'""

It shows that Jesus and the little Marmary Magdalene were lovers and were intimate.

It also debunks and dismisses the myth that Jesus was God or the Father. How beautifully Jesus himself dismisses the great lie that he told Philip he was the Father!

What spin can you put on this?
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Originally posted by BMZSP BMZSP wrote:


Tell me what good were the miracles shown by Jesus, when he was not recognised and was not accepted by the very people to whom God had sent him?

Oh, but he was BMZSP!  Who do you think the first followers of Yshwe were?  They were Jews.

And the greatest miracle of all... the resurrection of the Son won many hearts to God, and many more followers, both gentile and Jew.  Smile
Originally posted by BMZSP BMZSP wrote:


That reasoning was done through Qur'aan and within the life time of the Prophet, the pagans accepted One God Almighty and the prophet, without a single miracle shown.

Regarding this...
Muhammad made the people he conquered give up their many gods and believe in just 'the god'... 'al Lah'.....
and he had to take the Christian children in order to raise up a generation of muslims.
If people transferred to the ways of Muhammad it was because he brought Christian values to the people and mixed it with other practices that the culture was familiar with.  This is my belief.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 03 January 2015 at 11:52am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Originally posted by BMZSP BMZSP wrote:


The problem is that he never said that he was God who came down to earth. He is on record for saying that on his own he could do nothing. Right?

Greetings BMZSP,

'I do the will of my Father who sent Me'  (John 6)
'I and the Father are One'  (John 10)

Yshwe WAS God come down to earth... as hard as this concept is for muslims to understand, the Truth of it is in Yshwe's words, in the prior scriptures, and in the works of His life.
'if you do not believe Me, believe for the works sake'

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
the words of Yshwe

Originally posted by BMZSP BMZSP wrote:


Jesus never said clearly or openly or publicly "I am God".

He would have been stoned to death straight away if he had said that or would have been beheaded.

Which is precisely why He was always so considered in his replies, being deliberately evasive in His answers, knowing that anyone with wisdom could discern the answers for themselves...
He knew that the Pharisees knew precisely who He claimed to be...
any Jewish scholar could understand what Yshwe was saying through His words and His actions.

41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.  (John 6)

30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.  (John 10)

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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