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The REAL Intended Sacrifice of Prophet Ibrahim
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Webber View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 February 2013 at 6:57am
Quote Abu Loren: As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this?
Lemme see, two sons, so killing one is no big deal?
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

Originally posted by Reepicheep Reepicheep wrote:

Abu Loren: As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this?
 
According to numerous hadith, Mohammad said it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed.  I assume, then, that you are accusing Mohammad of being a liar and a false prophet?
 
Christians are so good at twisting people's words that they have made it into an art.

Greetings Abu_Loren,

Why do you use the label Christian?  (your prejudice is showing Wink)
Alot of people are good at twisting words.  Has little to do with their religion.
That would be like me accusing all muslims of being liars.  Which would be considered an outrageous lie.  Some may be, not because they are muslim, but just because they are who they are, as an individual shaped by many factors.

p.s.- reepicheap, I am not saying this is what you did.  I'm not supporting that argument one way or the other. Wink

Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 15 February 2013 at 9:12am
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"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Reepicheep Reepicheep wrote:

Abu Loren: As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this?
 
According to numerous hadith, Mohammad said it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed.  I assume, then, that you are accusing Mohammad of being a liar and a false prophet?
 
Christians are so good at twisting people's words that they have made it into an art.
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Abu Loren: As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this?
 
According to numerous hadith, Mohammad said it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed.  I assume, then, that you are accusing Mohammad of being a liar and a false prophet?
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Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:


What is wrong with believing and/or declaring that Muhammad is God's slave and messenger? He always stressed that he was only a human being and not to put him on a pedastal nor worship him. Have you ever thought that the Shahada is structured in that way so that the believer can distinguish form Who God is and who Muhammad is?
 
Your prejudice is unbelievable. Your heart is filled with so much hate. Why?

Greetings Abu_Loren,

"Your heart is filled with so much hate. Why?"

Sorry, that made me laugh.  No hate.  Where do you come up with hate?  I do wonder at such a statement.

I am taking into consideration the rest of what you say.
Is it possible to claim God without claiming Muhammad?  and if not, why not?

Thanks,
CH
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Reepicheep Reepicheep wrote:

 Abu Loren wrote: It's a shame you didn't read on till the end of your link.
 
What in particular are you referring to?  Please tell us.
 
The link provides the names of five hadith collections and eight commentaries on the koran where it is stated that either the son was Isaac, or it could have been either son.  Obviously, there is no agreement in Islam as to which son was to be sacrificed.
 
 
Reepicheep: you refuse to consider the muslim prophets Ishmael and Isaac to be equals. 
 
Abu Loren in reply: Where did this come from? What are you talking about?
 
The koran doesn't state which son was to be sacrificed, yet you absolutely refuse to consider the possibility that the son was Isaac.  Why?  It appears to me that it is hostility on your part towards Isaac.  If that is not the reason, then what is it?
 
Why do you ignore all the hadith and commentaries which say it either was Isaac, or could have been Isaac???
 
  
Abu Loren wrote: Believing in who was to be sacrificed is not a pre-condition on salvation.
 
Then why do you have such hostility towards the muslims and Christians who say it was Isaac and not Ishmael???
 
Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala tells us that He has given human beings intellect, logic, reasoning etc and I choose to excercise it.
 
It makes no sense when Prophet Ibrahim was given Prophet Ishmael in old age that he would have to wait until Prophet Isaac was born for the sacrifice.
 
Can you imagine this scenario?
 
After being given a son in old age he is being asked to sacrifice that child. Hoe would you feel? Would you be upset? Would you think of disobeying God?
 
As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this?
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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


Greetings Abu_Loren,

but it's not enough to declare belief in God is it?  You must also declare Muhammad is His messenger.  God by Himself isn't enough.

believe - declare - what's the difference?
semantics

Regarding the rest, I know what your qur'an says.
Doesn't make it right, good, and true.

Salaam,
CH
 
What is wrong with believing and/or declaring that Muhammad is God's slave and messenger? He always stressed that he was only a human being and not to put him on a pedastal nor worship him. Have you ever thought that the Shahada is structured in that way so that the believer can distinguish form Who God is and who Muhammad is?
 
Your prejudice is unbelievable. Your heart is filled with so much hate. Why?
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Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

Also curious since it is not enough for a person to say they believe in the one God, they must also say that they believe in Muhammad.
Are you an eediot? Where did you get that from? Let me repeat the Shahada again to you and READ and UNDERSTAND.  "I declare that there is no deity other than Allah and that Muhammad is His slave and messenger".  Who told you that they have to 'believe' in Muhammad? Believing in him means that one has to believe in the revelation that was given to him, not believe in him as a partner to God as you believe Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) to be.

Greetings Abu_Loren,

but it's not enough to declare belief in God is it?  You must also declare Muhammad is His messenger.  God by Himself isn't enough.

believe - declare - what's the difference?
semantics

Regarding the rest, I know what your qur'an says.
Doesn't make it right, good, and true.

Salaam,
CH


Edited by Caringheart - 13 February 2013 at 10:03pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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