The REAL Intended Sacrifice of Prophet Ibrahim
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Topic: The REAL Intended Sacrifice of Prophet Ibrahim
Posted By: Abu Loren
Subject: The REAL Intended Sacrifice of Prophet Ibrahim
Date Posted: 08 February 2013 at 8:04pm
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Alhamdulilahi Rabbil Alamin Ar Rahmanir Rahim As�alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa
Barakatuhu Sahih International And [mention, O
Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled
them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader for the
people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ]
said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers." 2:124 Undoubtedly the
greatest trial of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) was being asked to sacrifice
his son. Unlike a normal human being however he was willing to do it for the
love of his Lord. The Bible states that it was Prophet Isaac (Alayhi Salaam)
who was chosen for the sacrifice, this just does not make any sense. If Prophet
Isaac (Alayhi Salaam) was chosen then the impact and the seriousness of the
situation would have been lost as there was another son. But if the first born
son of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) was chosen and he was the only son at
the time, then imagine the heartache and confusion this would have caused
Prophet Ibrahim. For one thing, Prophet Ishmael was conceived when he was old
and was a miracle just as was the conception of Prophet Isaac (Alayhi Salaam).
Sacrificing Prophet Isaac (Alayhi Salaam) just does not make any sense when
there was already another son. But if the first born and the only son was being
asked to be sacrificed then the whole story changes. The impact is not lost.
Imagine the scenario, you�ve just been given a son in extreme old age and God
asks you to sacrifice him. This would have tested him to the core of his soul.
The reason that he was willing to go through with it shows us the character and
the man that was Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam). He was the only person ever
to be called the �friend� of Allah Subhana Wa Ta�ala. Appropriately, the
last statement from verse 2:124 clearly is meant to be for the Jews and
Christians. They are the wrongdoers as they�ve changed the words of Allah
Subhana Wa Ta�ala to suit their tribal and ethnic superiority complex. |
Replies:
Posted By: 786SalamKhan
Date Posted: 09 February 2013 at 12:11am
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www.anusha.com/isaac.htm
"It is logically obvious that it was Ishmael and not Isaac who was to be sacrificed. Consider the alternative: If it was Isaac, then Isaac was 13 and Ishmael was 27, Abraham was 113 and Sarah was 103. It is unlikely that a 113 year old man could climb a mountain, split wood, build an alter, tie up his son, and later kill a ram, all of which the Bible says that Abraham did on the occasion in question. Moreover, if he did all that, why did not Abraham call upon his then 27-year-old son, Ishmael, for assistance?" |
Posted By: Reepicheep
Date Posted: 09 February 2013 at 5:59am
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Nowhere in the koran does it indicate which son was to be sacrificed, whereas the bible clearly states that it was Isaac.
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I'm curious, why is it so important to some muslims which son Abraham was to sacrifice? What is so offensive about Abraham sacrificing Isaac instead of Ishmael?
In Islam, is it a condition of salvation for muslims to believe that it was Ishmael who was to be sacrificed (i.e., can a muslim get into heaven, if the muslim believes it was Isaac and not Ishmael who was to be sacrificed?).
Do muslims hate Isaac for some reason???
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Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 10 February 2013 at 1:57am
It matters mr. Reepicheep because it shows clearly that the Bible is corrupted. I notice that you have been a member on this forum for a while and you STILL haven't noticed that ALL true muslims revere ALL the Prophets of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. Muslims do not make any distinctions unlike the Christians as has been clearly demonstrated here on this forum. I sincerely hope that you open your eyes and heart and start to learn something. You've been here long enough.
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Reepicheep wrote:Posted By: Reepicheep
Date Posted: 11 February 2013 at 3:09pm
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Abu Loren wrote: it shows clearly that the Bible is corrupted. So your logic, such as it is, is as follows: the bible states that Isaac was to be sacrificed. The koran doesn't contradict this. Therefore, the bible is wrong.
Kinda strange logic, if you ask me, and not very logical.
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It may interest you to know that many, many muslim scholars either say it was Isaac, or say they don't know which son was to be sacrificed. For example:
http://www.classicalislamgroup.com/index.php?view=tafseer/s37-v99to113-4 - http://www.classicalislamgroup.com/index.php?view=tafseer/s37-v99to113-4
The Tafsir of the verses cited above has been described on the assumption that the son who was to be slaughtered was Sayyidna Isma'il (A.S). But, the truth of the matter is that there is a severe difference of opinion among commentators and historians about it. That this son was Sayyidna Ishaq (A.S) has been reported from among the Sahabah by Sayyidna 'Umar, Sayyidna 'Ali, Sayyidna 'Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud, Sayyidna 'Abbas, Sayyidna 'Abdullah Ibn 'Abbas and Sayyidna Ka'b al-Ahbar (R.A), and from among the Tabi'in by Sa'id Ibn Jubayr, Qatadah, Masriq, 'Ikrimah, 'Ata', Muqatil, Zuhri and Suddiyy (R.A).
Abu Loren wrote: ALL true muslims revere ALL the Prophets of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. Muslims do not make any distinctions
So you say. Yet, you refuse to consider the muslim prophets Ishmael and Isaac to be equals. Curious...
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In other threads, you have declared, on your own authority, that all christians will go to hell. As well, you have declared, also on your own authority, that all Twelver shiites are apostates and will also go to hell.
Are you also declaring, on your own authority, that all Sunni muslims who refuse to accept your claim that Ishmael is the son who was to be sacrificed are also apostates and destined to hell? Or is it perfectly acceptable for a muslim to believe that it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed?
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Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 11 February 2013 at 7:09pm
In the Holy Qur'an we are told that mankind was given knowlede, wisdom and intellect. We have to use it.
It's a shame you didn't read on till the end of your link.
Where did this come from? What are you talking about?
I've told you once before in another thread it's not from my own authority. Allah Subhana Wa T'ala in the Holy Qur'an tells us that all that associate partners to His rule and worship will go to hell. The Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) states in a hadith that anything not sanctioned by him is an innovation and all innovators will go to hell who deviate from the Straight Path which he helped to establish. Now you are putting words in my mouth with your last paragraph. Don't worry though as this is typical of what the Christians do on a daily basis. Believing in who was to be sacrificed is not a pre-condition on salvation. This thread is merely pointing out the inaccuracies and the prejudices of the
Bible and the Jews who corrupted it. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 11 February 2013 at 8:19pm
Also curious since it is not enough for a person to say they believe in the one God, they must also say that they believe in Muhammad. *********************
""there is no man more dangerous than one who thinks he knows the will of God" ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Reepicheep
Date Posted: 13 February 2013 at 5:24am
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Abu Loren wrote: It's a shame you didn't read on till the end of your link.
What in particular are you referring to? Please tell us.
The link provides the names of five hadith collections and eight commentaries on the koran where it is stated that either the son was Isaac, or it could have been either son. Obviously, there is no agreement in Islam as to which son was to be sacrificed.
Reepicheep: you refuse to consider the muslim prophets Ishmael and Isaac to be equals.
Abu Loren in reply: Where did this come from? What are you talking about?
The koran doesn't state which son was to be sacrificed, yet you absolutely refuse to consider the possibility that the son was Isaac. Why? It appears to me that it is hostility on your part towards Isaac. If that is not the reason, then what is it?
Why do you ignore all the hadith and commentaries which say it either was Isaac, or could have been Isaac???
Abu Loren wrote: Believing in who was to be sacrificed is not a pre-condition on salvation.
Then why do you have such hostility towards the muslims and Christians who say it was Isaac and not Ishmael???
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Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 13 February 2013 at 8:19am
Looks more like it's pointing out more conjectures of the Muslims. You are pointing out what the Quran does not say and insisting it proves the Bible wrong. That would be like saying the Bible is wrong because it does not approve of eating camels. ------------- I'm a Gentile. Numb. 6:24-26 |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 13 February 2013 at 6:50pm
Are you an eediot? Where did you get that from? Let me repeat the Shahada again to you and READ and UNDERSTAND. "I declare that there is no deity other than Allah and that Muhammad is His slave and messenger". Who told you that they have to 'believe' in Muhammad? Believing in him means that one has to believe in the revelation that was given to him, not believe in him as a partner to God as you believe Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) to be.
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""there is no man more dangerous than one who thinks he knows the will of God" [/QUOTE] Read what I've replied to Mr. Reepicheep. Everyting I've said is backed up by the Holy Qur'an. In it all disbelievers in Him will go to Hell. Those who associate partners to Him is a great sin as what you believe is.
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Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 13 February 2013 at 9:33pm
Greetings Abu_Loren, but it's not enough to declare belief in God is it? You must also declare Muhammad is His messenger. God by Himself isn't enough. believe - declare - what's the difference? semantics Regarding the rest, I know what your qur'an says. Doesn't make it right, good, and true. Salaam, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 14 February 2013 at 2:00am
What is wrong with believing and/or declaring that Muhammad is God's slave and messenger? He always stressed that he was only a human being and not to put him on a pedastal nor worship him. Have you ever thought that the Shahada is structured in that way so that the believer can distinguish form Who God is and who Muhammad is? Your prejudice is unbelievable. Your heart is filled with so much hate. Why?
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Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 14 February 2013 at 2:06am
Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala tells us that He has given human beings intellect, logic, reasoning etc and I choose to excercise it. It makes no sense when Prophet Ibrahim was given Prophet Ishmael in old age that he would have to wait until Prophet Isaac was born for the sacrifice. Can you imagine this scenario? After being given a son in old age he is being asked to sacrifice that child. Hoe would you feel? Would you be upset? Would you think of disobeying God? As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this?
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Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 14 February 2013 at 5:02pm
Greetings Abu_Loren, "Your heart is filled with so much hate. Why?" Sorry, that made me laugh. No hate. Where do you come up with hate? I do wonder at such a statement. I am taking into consideration the rest of what you say. Is it possible to claim God without claiming Muhammad? and if not, why not? Thanks, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Reepicheep
Date Posted: 14 February 2013 at 6:40pm
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Abu Loren: As I've said before if it was Prophet Isaac who was to be sacrificed then you can imagine Prophet Ibrahim not hesitating because he has Ishmael. Do you understand this?
According to numerous hadith, Mohammad said it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed. I assume, then, that you are accusing Mohammad of being a liar and a false prophet?
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Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 15 February 2013 at 1:49am
Christians are so good at twisting people's words that they have made it into an art.
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Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 15 February 2013 at 9:11am
Greetings Abu_Loren, Why do you use the label Christian? (your prejudice is showing  )Alot of people are good at twisting words. Has little to do with their religion. That would be like me accusing all muslims of being liars. Which would be considered an outrageous lie. Some may be, not because they are muslim, but just because they are who they are, as an individual shaped by many factors. p.s.- reepicheap, I am not saying this is what you did. I'm not supporting that argument one way or the other. Salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 16 February 2013 at 6:57am
------------- I'm a Gentile. Numb. 6:24-26 |